chart action for Stoned Love and New Ways

[PeaceNHarmony]

That's a nice clip; I always liked the song. Must say, however ... that although the Magnificent 7 all look great they also look rather 'mature' for singles-airplay. Can't help but think that may have had something to do with decreasing chart action.

[TheMotownManiac]

That's a nice clip; I always liked the song. Must say, however ... that although the Magnificent 7 all look great they also look rather 'mature' for singles-airplay. Can't help but think that may have had something to do with decreasing chart action.

I liked this record enough to buy it, but I knew it was gonna flop - it sounded old and fuddy-duddyish to me, even though I dug the rhythm of the verse very, very much but the rest was for grannies. Then that absurd album cover: hokey and dated cowboy looks b/w reconstituted glam that was way out of date. I knew the it was over for The Supremes. They had some good records but there was no interest in the group there was no talk about them at school nobody was talking about the new supreme’s record and how good it was or anything, they were dismissed by the same people that a year or two earlier talked about their stuff all the time. They used to be cool and fresh, but now they were Blah and clinging to a glam look with no one to anchor it or direct it fashionably.

[sup_fan]

I liked this record enough to buy it, but I knew it was gonna flop - it sounded old and fuddy-duddyish to me, even though I dug the rhythm of the verse very, very much but the rest was for grannies. Then that absurd album cover: hokey and dated cowboy looks b/w reconstituted glam that was way out of date. I knew the it was over for The Supremes. They had some good records but there was no interest in the group there was no talk about them at school nobody was talking about the new supreme’s record and how good it was or anything, they were dismissed by the same people that a year or two earlier talked about their stuff all the time. They used to be cool and fresh, but now they were Blah and clinging to a glam look with no one to anchor it or direct it fashionably.

Maniac - what do you think of some of the posts on here about how a revised New Ways album might have done just what you stated?

1. rename the album Stone Love
2. cover is the afro look, no hodge podge of sequin pics. although maybe it's still gatefold and when you opened it up, there are more pics from on stage, in contemporary clothing, maybe mini bios on the girls
3. a few adjustments to the song list to tighten up Side B
4. skip the duet projects altogether

The album was mostly focused on peace, god, humanity and love. a real rock/opera sound. If there had been a real smart strategic plan around this album, i think it might have been the one to return them to huge status

and i know we've discussed before the motown really DID do a lot of promotion of the Jean led group. but when the product isn't as good as it could be, promotion will only take you so far

thoughts?

[TheMotownManiac]

Maniac - what do you think of some of the posts on here about how a revised New Ways album might have done just what you stated?

1. rename the album Stone Love

not a bad idea but I’m not certain it would’ve made a difference. There was a great big sticker on the cover to let everyone know that stoned love was on this album.

2. cover is the afro look, no hodge podge of sequin pics. although maybe it's still gatefold and when you opened it up, there are more pics from on stage, in contemporary clothing, maybe mini bios on the girls

at the time, I thought that they had done a pretty good job of bridging the gap between the new look of the Supremes and the old look at the Supremes, I liked the title I thought it was actually clever and indicated that things were changing, I didn’t mind the pink at the time. Do I think it would’ve been better with just the Afro look on the front and back with cool, hip graphics? Yes.

3. a few adjustments to the song list to tighten up Side B

I know I’m the only one but I think together we could make such sweet music was silly, and even at the time I felt they were pandering to an older crowd. No one at my high school was talking about the left on the right. I would’ve gotten rid of I wish I wear your mirror, and Nana hey hey…… Or, giving and then funkier arrangements would’ve been great. I would not have released the album without a sure fire follow up single. That being said, even with all the negatives, It’s still way under performed because, I believe, people were not embracing the new group visually or for its vocal sound.

4. skip the duet projects altogether

if the only decent track you can come up with is River deep Mountain high, skip the duets. That first duet album is so terrible that I’m surprised it did as much as reaching 112. A great 45, and that hot mess album…… I think some greatness could’ve been achieved by pairing the two groups together, and one would think that the album would do at least as well as the groups last solo efforts, but clearly word of mouth on this album was awful because it was such a gigantic disappointment…… mammoth....A cut out been staple for years. I don’t believe in releasing an album just because you’ve collected 12 tracks that may or may not be listenable.

The album was mostly focused on peace, god, humanity and love. a real rock/opera sound. If there had been a real smart strategic plan around this album, i think it might have been the one to return them to huge status

****There certainly was a great opportunity here to make this their are coming of age moment, and I wish that Barry Gordy had told Frank wilson to stop working with anyone but the Supremes follow up album to make it great. But he didn’t work that way. He didn’t even work that way with diana ross. He flew by the seat of his pants and often accepted mediocrity. The album age was clearly upon us, but he was still concentrating on one or two good cuts per album, it was very shortsighted of him…… Very The Supremes and diana ross both deserve much better. I think a concept album of peace and love and spiritualism and things like that would’ve been great, but you’ve got to have quality songs and great production in order to do that. You can’t have corn ball, tried lyrics wife, “why should you go to the left, why should I go to the right? Why should we argue this way, why should we fuss and fight? To me, that is songwriting 101. I like very much but they are trying to say, but I would rather have sly stone lyrics that people could relate to instead of this fluff. I don’t know one single person who liked stoned love because of its message, not one. I think 50 years later people are looking at it and thinking “oh what a deep message this had”- what’s going on, it ain’t. If you want to go for the hip, with-it market, you’ve got to give them hip with it music - not a 10-year-old act in sequin dresses on television trying to bridge the generation gap.

and i know we've discussed before the motown really DID do a lot of promotion of the Jean led group. but when the product isn't as good as it could be, promotion will only take you so far.




****promotion is great, but you can’t make people buy a record and you can’t make people buy an album even if they like the single, they buy the album because they want to hear 12 cats like the one they heard on the radio. If they don’t want to hear 12 cuts like that, then they just buy the 45 and that was the problem with the new supremes. I really think part of it is that Jean’s voice, for whatever reason, did not get embraced. And I’m not talking talent, because there’s no question she was very talented.
thoughts?

so, I guess it could’ve been better ....lol

yikes - I just realized I answered in the body of your questions so look above for the answers… Sorry about that!

[sup_fan]

so, I guess it could’ve been better ....lol

yikes - I just realized I answered in the body of your questions so look above for the answers… Sorry about that!

great thoughts Maniac - love your POV and all.

I think the group had to maintain some degree of Vegas because they still had their Frontier contract. and big clubs like that were still an important part of their live revenues. but at the same time they needed to do more to appeal to the college kids. the college kids in 1970 were definitely NOT the same types of kids from 1964. so the question of would the Sups ever be super popular with the college kids is one that probably would never be. they were always going to have a bit of "the establishment" about them. the girls would maintain a sunny squeaky clean image. but they could have done more to step away from the excessive glitter and sequins of DRATS.

as for the whole message of SL and all, yeah. the girls were not doing to be overly militant or Black Power. again that just wasn't their image. so with SL and New Ways, we get Message Lite - there's some nods towards peace and love and all But wrapped up in a pretty package.

i agree with you that motown did invest a lot of promotional effort into the new group. but i think sloppy decisions by the company and shoddy group strategic planning undermined that promotional effort.

if nothing else, NW should have charted somewhere in the 30s at least. albums like Let the Sunshine In reached these levels and there certainly couldn't have been much positive word of mouth about that crapbag. lol Cream wasn't really any better. and it too made it to the 30s. and both of these albums lingered on the charts many weeks longer than NW.

[TheMotownManiac]

great thoughts Maniac - love your POV and all.

I think the group had to maintain some degree of Vegas because they still had their Frontier contract. and big clubs like that were still an important part of their live revenues. but at the same time they needed to do more to appeal to the college kids. the college kids in 1970 were definitely NOT the same types of kids from 1964. so the question of would the Sups ever be super popular with the college kids is one that probably would never be. they were always going to have a bit of "the establishment" about them. the girls would maintain a sunny squeaky clean image. but they could have done more to step away from the excessive glitter and sequins of DRATS.

as for the whole message of SL and all, yeah. the girls were not doing to be overly militant or Black Power. again that just wasn't their image. so with SL and New Ways, we get Message Lite - there's some nods towards peace and love and all But wrapped up in a pretty package.

i agree with you that motown did invest a lot of promotional effort into the new group. but i think sloppy decisions by the company and shoddy group strategic planning undermined that promotional effort.

if nothing else, NW should have charted somewhere in the 30s at least. albums like Let the Sunshine In reached these levels and there certainly couldn't have been much positive word of mouth about that crapbag. lol Cream wasn't really any better. and it too made it to the 30s. and both of these albums lingered on the charts many weeks longer than NW.

The one thing that let the sunshine in and cream of the crop had going for it, was diana ross was still with the group and so for better or worse, there was that familiarity and perhaps even subconsciously loyalty. Let the sunshine in is a very dismal affair - Even the mixes of the singles are not listenable……I don’t really mind cream of the crop as much at all, but it got cannibalized by greatest hits volume three, plus it had a cheesy back cover and the front cover was probably a little bit too much in your face for many tastes.

technically, new Waze should’ve outperformed right on because it’s lead single was a much much much bigger hit, however, the fact that there was so much drop off, indicates the public wasn’t really buying the new act. You’ll notice the touch album had a much more hip look to it, I don’t think that was a mistake. And Gordy was so anal retentive about cloning what had already been successful that he was unable or incapable providing any forward thinking or vision to established acts. He preferred Marvin going to release how can I forget instead of what’s going on, for example. It’s a shame that no one in the group had a sense of the pulse of the now generation. It’s much more important for a group to remain current, then it is for a single. Ross could get away with more of that stuff than the group could. And they could still continue to have their nightclub act but their concerts should’ve done away with all that. Look at the name and reputation Ike and Tina turner developed with their app. They were rarely on the radio, especially on pop stations, but their show rocked and grew. JMC needed an identity, and never got one.