NY Times Review: Mary Wilson Solo Debut!!!!!

[TheMotownManiac]

I never saw that cool ad, but I lived in Bloomington and Chicago that summer and record stores in both cities had posters of the album on display in the record stores and every club, I assume, I was given a copy of the album because I heard red hot and lots of clubs…… And sending out promos to clubs is promotion. Those posters are promotion. That moronic lament of lack of promotion is usually only uttered by losers. Did you ever hear diana ross Barbra Streisand Whitney Houston Janet Jackson Stevie wonder Paul McCartney anyone successful ever blame a record bombing on lack a promotion? This excuse is usually reserved for those who don’t wanna take responsibility for their own career and have to blame their failures on others. It’s sad. I don’t think the album is that bad - it’s not great, but there was no real reason to put all its resources into this album because they didn’t feel she was a major talent…… No one did. Mary couldn’t get a record deal anywhere, and as evidenced by this review, she was rather mediocre …… Fast forward 30 years, and she’s grown into a hell of a cabaret singer with a set that she could be very proud of - Especially when you consider that she may Lure you in with the supreme’s name, but the success of the show has nothing to do with the Supremes hits, Of which she does very few and too many people, not very well. However, there is unanimous Wild Support for the rest of her show.

Making a big deal out of the fact that Motown didn’t make Mary into a solo star I think it’s the most ridiculous conversation in the world as it didn’t make Motown some sort of aberration of the music industry…… A company looking to do disservice to this deserving artist… Mary took that deal because she couldn’t get a deal anywhere else and afterwords she still couldn’t get a deal anywhere else and the industry knew that her album had been promoted because they would have seen it, they also knew that the album never caught on… Nora couldn’t get any measurable amount of support on radio. Mary was not a name and she was not a draw and she was not a talent to be reckoned with at that time. She was a former supreme who wanted to be a solo star And that was not enough to generate interest in her. Mary made her self into the success she is today and I’m proud of her and I can watch her show over and over and over again.

[RanRan79]

That moronic lament of lack of promotion is usually only uttered by losers. Did you ever hear diana ross Barbra Streisand Whitney Houston Janet Jackson Stevie wonder Paul McCartney anyone successful ever blame a record bombing on lack a promotion? This excuse is usually reserved for those who don’t wanna take responsibility for their own career and have to blame their failures on others. It’s sad.

No, what's moronic is your inability to state your opinion regarding the reasons Mary's album failed without resorting to name calling and attacks. What you have demonstrated in your post is the mark of someone who is a much bigger loser than anyone who holds the opinion that Mary's album suffered from lack of promotion. Perhaps you may want to evaluate why you're so bothered by opposing viewpoints within the subject of music.

Diana Ross complained that Motown wasn't promoting The Boss. She was at the height of her career. Nothing "loser" about her. Yet there she was pointing at lack of promotion as an issue between she and Motown. Guess what? It happens all of the time. Artists are always blaming bad promotion on failed projects. Sometimes they're right, sometimes they're wrong. Maybe you seem to be of the opinion that record labels do the right thing all of the time, but I know better. Wherever there are people, there will be mistakes or malicious intent. And record label execs are notorious for allowing business to become personal, as Ross seemed to suspect regarding lack of promo for The Boss, that it was personal from Berry's hand.

Stevie Wonder also complained that "Bad Weather" suffered from lack of promotion. He's not a loser either, whether or not his opinion was valid or invalid.

For the record I don't know whether Motown adequately promoted Mary's album or not. I think it would be interesting to hear from record industry insiders who have an educated understanding of what good promotion is vs inadequate promotion. It would also be interesting to hear what more proponents of the "Mary's album failed because of lack of promotion" thinks needed to be done. My personal opinion is that Motown could've pulled out ALL of the stops [[and I doubt they did simply because of my belief that the label didn't care all that much for Mary at this point, album or no album) and the album still would've tanked because it sucked. No amount of promotion is going to turn a mediocre debut album into a blockbuster.

[TheMotownManiac]

No, what's moronic is your inability to state your opinion regarding the reasons Mary's album failed without resorting to name calling and attacks. What you have demonstrated in your post is the mark of someone who is a much bigger loser than anyone who holds the opinion that Mary's album suffered from lack of promotion. Perhaps you may want to evaluate why you're so bothered by opposing viewpoints within the subject of music.

Diana Ross complained that Motown wasn't promoting The Boss. She was at the height of her career. Nothing "loser" about her. Yet there she was pointing at lack of promotion as an issue between she and Motown. Guess what? It happens all of the time. Artists are always blaming bad promotion on failed projects. Sometimes they're right, sometimes they're wrong. Maybe you seem to be of the opinion that record labels do the right thing all of the time, but I know better. Wherever there are people, there will be mistakes or malicious intent. And record label execs are notorious for allowing business to become personal, as Ross seemed to suspect regarding lack of promo for The Boss, that it was personal from Berry's hand.

Stevie Wonder also complained that "Bad Weather" suffered from lack of promotion. He's not a loser either, whether or not his opinion was valid or invalid.

For the record I don't know whether Motown adequately promoted Mary's album or not. I think it would be interesting to hear from record industry insiders who have an educated understanding of what good promotion is vs inadequate promotion. It would also be interesting to hear what more proponents of the "Mary's album failed because of lack of promotion" thinks needed to be done. My personal opinion is that Motown could've pulled out ALL of the stops [[and I doubt they did simply because of my belief that the label didn't care all that much for Mary at this point, album or no album) and the album still would've tanked because it sucked. No amount of promotion is going to turn a mediocre debut album into a blockbuster.

I'm not bothered by opposing viewpoints in music nor was I calling those with opposing viewpoints losers. I was referring to the artists who resort to that time and time again. I think if you re-read my statement you’ll realize I was not referring to anyone here with that comment and, used The adverb usually because i’m Sure there’s cases where it truly applies. I have respect for everyone’s opinion on this forum as I have stated many times. I love reading all opinions and many times I’ve been in lightened resulting in a change of opinion.

For the past several months I’ve been spending the majority of my time helping family members displaced by the floods and I’ve had very little time for this for him as much as I enjoy it, so I usually just dictate a response because I’m a slow typer, and sometimes don’t re-read it to check for accuracy in transcription or grammar or punctuation. It’s not for me it’s just I don’t take the time I normally would. However I reread my comment and I stand by what I said: I do feel some artists rely way too much on blaming lack of promotion and Mary made a big deal of this in her books while pushing her conspiracy theory…… And I personally just don’t buy it.

Ive never heard of Ross complaining about promotion for The Boss, or anything else. When and where did this happen? In any event, assuming she did - it was very rare for her and she had plenty of flops. I also did not hear firsthand that Stevie Wonder was complaining about bad weather not getting promoted - it was SAID that he complained, but I never read it in an interview or comment direct from him. He was Motown‘s biggest selling artist at the time and I would imagine Motown would’ve done whatever they could to keep him happy. In any event, two exceptions for the gigantic example I used, doesn’t mean much to me. Our own blue Brock is an industry insider and I would love to hear what he considers promotion.

It’s my opinion that Motown promoted mary‘s album because promotional singles 12 inch singles and albums were furnished to radio stations and clubs all over the country including some on red vinyl. This is provable because of the number of fans who own these copies from used record stores that have the radio stations markings on them.The in-store posters that many fans saw are also promotion. The co-op dollars for newspaper advertising is promotion. I’m basing my opinion on the fact that I personally witnessed the promotion. Was this adequate? I don’t know what that measurement is - but it is at least the norm plus as the posters were not all that common. What impressed me at the time was that stores put them up instead of trashing them. That also is promotion as I assume most stores could have used that wall space for more commercial artists. Certainly they could’ve done more but you can’t make a silk purse out of a sows ear and no amount of promotion is going to make her weak record a big hit - but I don’t, like you, think it sucked. It was listenable for me. I’m sure that Motown could’ve provided cocaine to radio stations or hookers or whatever it is radio stations wanted in terms of emollients for airplay, and who knows maybe they did. My point is there are facts that the record was promoted and yes I’m sure they could’ve done more but no record company is going to pull out the stops for a record that they don’t believe in and an unproven artist they don’t believe in. I saw a lot more action for mary‘s album than I did for partners which I saw nothing of.

MCA stood on their heads for Martha’s solo debut and it tanked huge.

I’ve never stated anything to suggest that record labels always do the right thing or the wrong thing for that matter. I’ve been extremely vocal about what I consider to be mistakes Motown made. In 1979, Motown wasn’t exactly flush with cash and wasn’t selling a lot of records.they had Stevie ross and the Commodores And it’s my personal opinion that if they felt that there was any gold to mine out of mary wilson they would’ve done so because their business was making money.

[RanRan79]

I'm not bothered by opposing viewpoints in music nor was I calling those with opposing viewpoints losers. I was referring to the artists who resort to that time and time again. I think if you re-read my statement you’ll realize I was not referring to anyone here with that comment and, used The adverb usually because i’m Sure there’s cases where it truly applies. I have respect for everyone’s opinion on this forum as I have stated many times. I love reading all opinions and many times I’ve been in lightened resulting in a change of opinion.

Your post read to me like you were attacking those people in the forum who often make the "promotion" argument for Mary's solo lack of success at Motown. But you know what you wrote and what you meant and thus I have to apologize for misunderstanding what I read.

[TheMotownManiac]

Your post read to me like you were attacking those people in the forum who often make the "promotion" argument for Mary's solo lack of success at Motown. But you know what you wrote and what you meant and thus I have to apologize for misunderstanding what I read.

Its all cool. I do need to re-read what I post to be sure it’s clear to those not privy to the rusty mechanism that passes for my mind these days.

[RanRan79]

Making a big deal out of the fact that Motown didn’t make Mary into a solo star I think it’s the most ridiculous conversation in the world

What is with you being so bothered by other folks opinions? It's almost funny. How do you quantify a term like "ridiculous" as it relates to someone holding the opinion that Mary could've been a bigger solo star? How do you prove such a statement, that it's "ridiculous"? I get that you and others may not think Mary had a chance. That doesn't bother me. All of this stuff is taking place in the 70s and 80s, so where's the argument? I personally think Mary could've been bigger than she was, if only marginally, with a certain amount of luck on her side [[among other things that I've listed ad nauseum in previous threads), in a business that seems to be chocked full of talented artists, some of whom make it all the way, some who barely get out the gate. What's that saying about it? That it's ten percent talent and 90 percent luck, or something like that?

If believing Mary Wilson was good enough to be a consistent recording artist and occasional hit maker [[that's my opinion of Mary), makes me ridiculous...where do I get the t shirt?

[TheMotownManiac]

What is with you being so bothered by other folks opinions? It's almost funny. How do you quantify a term like "ridiculous" as it relates to someone holding the opinion that Mary could've been a bigger solo star? How do you prove such a statement, that it's "ridiculous"? I get that you and others may not think Mary had a chance. That doesn't bother me. All of this stuff is taking place in the 70s and 80s, so where's the argument? I personally think Mary could've been bigger than she was, if only marginally, with a certain amount of luck on her side [[among other things that I've listed ad nauseum in previous threads), in a business that seems to be chocked full of talented artists, some of whom make it all the way, some who barely get out the gate. What's that saying about it? That it's ten percent talent and 90 percent luck, or something like that?

If believing Mary Wilson was good enough to be a consistent recording artist and occasional hit maker [[that's my opinion of Mary), makes me ridiculous...where do I get the t shirt?

I have stated many times that Mary had talent and could have, with the proper direction, have had a much more lucrative singing career. What I find ridiculous is blaming Motown for her failure to launch a solo career in 1979. I say this because Motown never showed the slightest interest in Mary as a soloist with the group, cancelling gigs if she was the only one left to sing lead etc. they only did her album as a legal settlement- not an act of faith in her future as a solo star. No other company was interested enough to take her on, and no mentors like Tina got who took her from oblivion to the biggest female in the industry. To clarify: I did not ascribe “ridiculous” to those who felt mary could be a bigger star, as I was one Of them. I was referring to the inference that Motown somehow owed her something or “should have.........” done something or felt some sort of obligation to develop a talent they did not believe in.

Mary lacked vision back then and had no one to direct her except Pedro......nuff said? She adapted, learned, developed and grew all on her own into a bonafide artist.