What's your thought on the Andantes replacing vocals on groups

[sup_fan]

It’s been said before - all that was vital in these recordings be they Supremes Vandellas Miracles or Pips, was the lead singer

I agree with brad that a certain sound got sacrificed by about 1967

But the controversy has reduced the recognition that the Andantes got and their use has reduced the recognition of Miracles Pips Vandellas but especially Supremes - all in favour of their lead singers

actually that's not totally true. in very, very few instances were any of the men replaced by background singers. yes, in some cases the andantes were added to male group records, most notably on the Four Tops. But almost never were Duke, Obie and Lawrence replaced by, say, the Contours or the Spinners. Same with the Miracles. Smokey didn't record without Bobby, Ronnie and Pete.

So why was it ok that the women background singers at motown were interchangeable but the male background singers were not?

[StuBass1]

actually that's not totally true. in very, very few instances were any of the men replaced by background singers. yes, in some cases the andantes were added to male group records, most notably on the Four Tops. But almost never were Duke, Obie and Lawrence replaced by, say, the Contours or the Spinners. Same with the Miracles. Smokey didn't record without Bobby, Ronnie and Pete.

So why was it ok that the women background singers at motown were interchangeable but the male background singers were not?

Interesting question... I'd assume that quite frankly...while the male groups often needed higher register voices like the Andantes to bring home the concept, balance and brighten the sound to suit am radio...most had the male voices pretty well covered, although it was not unheard of at Motown for a producer on a male group to see one or more of the Originals for example hanging around and ask them to join in on the vocal track to add something as I've heard before...but not to the extent of adding female voices. As for the girl groups... I don't think there was much of an idea to add masculinity to those records to lower the vocal register on the overall sound, as the bass guitar and bari sax held down the low end on virtually every Motown record and the 3 guitar backbeats brought the fidelity back up, but using the Andantes as more a function of the just being better singers with greater ranges than the actual group members... the best female singers at the company...The Andantes sang on at least 8 Supremes songs, 12 Vandellas songs, 14 Marvelettes tracks...in addition to the Tempts, Tops, and solo vocal projects. They were the best around for what they did... Just not stage material...

[marv2]

actually that's not totally true. in very, very few instances were any of the men replaced by background singers. yes, in some cases the andantes were added to male group records, most notably on the Four Tops. But almost never were Duke, Obie and Lawrence replaced by, say, the Contours or the Spinners. Same with the Miracles. Smokey didn't record without Bobby, Ronnie and Pete.

So why was it ok that the women background singers at motown were interchangeable but the male background singers were not?

Why? Because they wanted to achieve three-part harmony in the background. That's very difficult to do with just two backing vocalists. That is main reason. In other cases because the Andantes were always in town and available to do sessions. It had nothing to do with the ability of the group singers. The Marvelettes were a little rough when they were first starting out, but even they became smoother over time. The Originals were used on many of the solo male recordings for the background.

[marv2]

Here is Martha Reeves backed by the REAL Vandellas and they sound superb. Now you can go on believe whatever is you want to believe. The groups sound best on the recordings to me. Session singers added some things, but overall they were pretty bland, colorless voices to my ears

[sup_fan]

Why? Because they wanted to achieve three-part harmony in the background. That's very difficult to do with just two backing vocalists. That is main reason. In other cases because the Andantes were always in town and available to do sessions. It had nothing to do with the ability of the group singers. The Marvelettes were a little rough when they were first starting out, but even they became smoother over time. The Originals were used on many of the solo male recordings for the background.

my point wasn't about the # of voices in the background. until 65, the Marvelettes had 3 background singers. plus to make a 3 part chord, you need, shock lol, 3 voices. if you have 2 background voices and 1 lead, each can sing a different note and achieve the 3-part that's desired. listen to Back in My Arms Again for a perfect example of this.

my point was that the male groups, for the vast majority of the time, did NOT replace their male background vocalists with other singers. the originals or the spinners or whichever men never/rarely subbed in for the Miracles or Tempts.

now for making a more full background sound, in the early to mid 60s it was certainly easier to bring in more singers rather than layer in multiple tracks of the group. like the Sups' Country Western & Pop. the released version has the added Andantes in the background. compare to the Unreleased 63 rendition of the songs.