He's Seventeen - background vocals

[sup_fan]

Ran - i agree that motown wasn't into the habit at this time of replacing BG singers like they would later. But the style and sound of 17 is totally different from any other track of that period.

i realize that the recording data is VERY incomplete from these early years. according to our EE booklets, 17 was recorded on the same day as Heavenly Father, Save Me a Star and You're Gonna Come to Me. Motown wasn't doing multi-tracks at this time so i don't believe it was the band being recorded. most likely everyone was there and they recorded the whole thing

so listen to Save Me a Star and 17.

wildly different BG sounds. listen to the intonation issues on Star and the lack of blending among DMB. then listen to 17. the sound is so blended it almost sounds weird.

[RanRan79]

Ran - i agree that motown wasn't into the habit at this time of replacing BG singers like they would later. But the style and sound of 17 is totally different from any other track of that period.

i realize that the recording data is VERY incomplete from these early years. according to our EE booklets, 17 was recorded on the same day as Heavenly Father, Save Me a Star and You're Gonna Come to Me. Motown wasn't doing multi-tracks at this time so i don't believe it was the band being recorded. most likely everyone was there and they recorded the whole thing

so listen to Save Me a Star and 17.

wildly different BG sounds. listen to the intonation issues on Star and the lack of blending among DMB. then listen to 17. the sound is so blended it almost sounds weird.

We agree about the sound. As I pointed out, I made that observation months [[or years?) ago in this forum. My point now is that Raynoma as producer may have made all the difference. She also, as Reese points out, may have joined them, which would have made for a tighter sound. At that point it would be four background voices, with three of them being able to keep Barbara's voice in check. Yet still, Barbara is pretty audible on the "dut, dut, dut"'s.

It would be really interesting if George or Andy can provide any additional information. I would love to suggest that Mary and Diana do the same, but...

[reese]

We agree about the sound. As I pointed out, I made that observation months [[or years?) ago in this forum. My point now is that Raynoma as producer may have made all the difference. She also, as Reese points out, may have joined them, which would have made for a tighter sound. At that point it would be four background voices, with three of them being able to keep Barbara's voice in check. Yet still, Barbara is pretty audible on the "dut, dut, dut"'s.

It would be really interesting if George or Andy can provide any additional information. I would love to suggest that Mary and Diana do the same, but...

I think Raynoma originally wrote the song for her girl group The Teen Queens. Maybe she pulled them in to round out the sound, you never know.

That said, it would be nice if Diana added her thoughts to the expanded editions. George and Andy have said that she's aware of them and I've seen a photo of she and Andy posing with the newly-released A GO GO.

But I'd love to hear her recollections of certain songs or sessions. Way back in 1970, she did a great interview with SOUL ILLUSTRATED and shared a lot of memories of her career up until that point, and in surprising detail. But I suppose memories can fade as well. HE'S SEVENTEEN might be one of her old faves or a song she doesn't even remember recording.

[sup_fan]

I think Raynoma originally wrote the song for her girl group The Teen Queens. Maybe she pulled them in to round out the sound, you never know.

That said, it would be nice if Diana added her thoughts to the expanded editions. George and Andy have said that she's aware of them and I've seen a photo of she and Andy posing with the newly-released A GO GO.

But I'd love to hear her recollections of certain songs or sessions. Way back in 1970, she did a great interview with SOUL ILLUSTRATED and shared a lot of memories of her career up until that point, and in surprising detail. But I suppose memories can fade as well. HE'S SEVENTEEN might be one of her old faves or a song she doesn't even remember recording.

interesting point about the Teen Queens. maybe they were in the session

if you go through all of the 60 and 61 tracks, nearly every one of them has a rougher BG vocal sound. until you get to Your Heart Belongs. and suddenly it's a very smooth and elegant bg. so prior to 17, the girls did a dozen or so songs. all with this more youthful and rough tone. then 17 comes along and it's a very odd transition in sound. That same day they do 2 more tracks but back to their rougher tone. You get this rougher tone on other subsequent tracks

then you get DJ Shows which is boisterous but less rough. Is Barbara on DJ? haven't listened to it for a while. i though there were just 2 BG vocalists - M and F

then in early Dec they do "Your Heart" with such a smooth and glossy tone

and on the same day as Your Heart, they do The Tears which is back to their rougher tone.

[reese]

then you get DJ Shows which is boisterous but less rough. Is Barbara on DJ? haven't listened to it for a while. i though there were just 2 BG vocalists - M and F

Maybe Barbara didn't make that session. I only hear Mary and Flo on that one.

[RanRan79]

interesting point about the Teen Queens. maybe they were in the session

if you go through all of the 60 and 61 tracks, nearly every one of them has a rougher BG vocal sound. until you get to Your Heart Belongs. and suddenly it's a very smooth and elegant bg. so prior to 17, the girls did a dozen or so songs. all with this more youthful and rough tone. then 17 comes along and it's a very odd transition in sound. That same day they do 2 more tracks but back to their rougher tone. You get this rougher tone on other subsequent tracks

then you get DJ Shows which is boisterous but less rough. Is Barbara on DJ? haven't listened to it for a while. i though there were just 2 BG vocalists - M and F

then in early Dec they do "Your Heart" with such a smooth and glossy tone

and on the same day as Your Heart, they do The Tears which is back to their rougher tone.

If you listen to the version of "Come To Me" recorded during the session, the girls harmonies are probably the tightest it had ever been previously with Barbara. Of course "Star" and "Heavenly" will sound different from the other two because Diana is in the harmony and Florence is not. I wonder what the lineup was during the session and if what they did on "You're Gonna Come To Me" was a carryover from the sound they achieved with Raynoma on "17". Something to ponder.

As for "DJ Shows", Barbara is not on it. Even in Mary's book, when she recalls the session, she only mentions Flo, Diana and herself.

[RanRan79]

I think Raynoma originally wrote the song for her girl group The Teen Queens. Maybe she pulled them in to round out the sound, you never know.

That said, it would be nice if Diana added her thoughts to the expanded editions. George and Andy have said that she's aware of them and I've seen a photo of she and Andy posing with the newly-released A GO GO.

But I'd love to hear her recollections of certain songs or sessions. Way back in 1970, she did a great interview with SOUL ILLUSTRATED and shared a lot of memories of her career up until that point, and in surprising detail. But I suppose memories can fade as well. HE'S SEVENTEEN might be one of her old faves or a song she doesn't even remember recording.

Maybe one of the Teen Queens. It doesn't sound like there's a bunch of voices in the background. My money is on Raynoma joining them, though.

I'm so over Diana's inattentiveness to just about anything Supreme. I find it difficult to believe that Andy or George have never attempted to get her input. I find it far more believable that she has simply declined and I do feel some type a way about it. Her thoughts and recollections are as important as anyone else's when it comes to learning more about their career at the time.

I would love to read that Soul Illustrated article.

[reese]

Maybe one of the Teen Queens. It doesn't sound like there's a bunch of voices in the background. My money is on Raynoma joining them, though.

I'm so over Diana's inattentiveness to just about anything Supreme. I find it difficult to believe that Andy or George have never attempted to get her input. I find it far more believable that she has simply declined and I do feel some type a way about it. Her thoughts and recollections are as important as anyone else's when it comes to learning more about their career at the time.

I would love to read that Soul Illustrated article.

I'm sure George and Andy have asked for her participation but she has declined. Maybe she feels she'll leave that to Mary. It is sad because as you said, her recollections are as important as anyone else's. After all, it is her legacy as well.

I'm not even looking for anything deep or controversial. In 1981, she did an interview with Andy Warhol and mentioned that the Supremes used to be on bills with Otis Redding. Then she mentioned how much her mother loved Otis. Something like that is just so cool to me.

[SatansBlues]

I'm sure George and Andy have asked for her participation but she has declined. Maybe she feels she'll leave that to Mary. It is sad because as you said, her recollections are as important as anyone else's. After all, it is her legacy as well.

I'm not even looking for anything deep or controversial. In 1981, she did an interview with Andy Warhol and mentioned that the Supremes used to be on bills with Otis Redding. Then she mentioned how much her mother loved Otis. Something like that is just so cool to me.

I agree with you on all those points. I think Diana has for the most part turned the legacy of the Supremes over to Mary Wilson and I think Mary has done an outstanding job of keeping the legacy of the group alive. I think Diana approaches her time with the Supremes the same way she approach her acting career, she acknowledges it, because it was an important part of her career, but it's not the only thing she's done in her career either.
As a FAN of both The Supremes and DR, I would love a musical interview with her where someone goes album by album if not track by track to get her thoughts, reflections and memories of her recording career and the different producers she has worked with and what songs stand out to her or had particular meaning.

[RanRan79]

I'm not even looking for anything deep or controversial. In 1981, she did an interview with Andy Warhol and mentioned that the Supremes used to be on bills with Otis Redding. Then she mentioned how much her mother loved Otis. Something like that is just so cool to me.

I like to think that most of us are over the controversies. It has marred the Supremes legacy and, IMO, one of, if not the biggest, contributing factors to why the group doesn't get the credit it deserves. I'm way more interested in the creativity of the music, ideas about the group's show and image, and even stuff like the Otis anecdote. In the Hollands' book, they mention that Florence and Diana were in a car accident that ended them both up in the hospital in 1967. First I've seen this mentioned. I wonder what happened? But I sure could tell you about Diana hitting someone upside the head with a hatbox...