Jean Terrell's "illness"

[BobbyC]

Hi Ran Ran. I really enjoy most of Jimmy Webb's work, I really do. But you put it in perspective when you wrote that the Supremes needed hit singles, and Jimmy wasn't really known for that--with some exceptions. After Up Up and Away, Jimmy produced the 5th's second album--The Magic Garden. There were no hit singles on it. Sunshower no hit singles. The Supremes, no hit singles. Yes he had a string of hits with Glenn Campbell, but that didn't last long. Jimmy Webb is a concept album guy. Even so, he had a tendency to pick out some flat out stupid songs for his concept albums--songs like Walk Your Feet in the Sunshine, Paper Cup and Carpet Man.Why cover Tossin' and Turning? That song IMO was just mediocre at best and in no way should have been a single, which it was in the UK. The Supremes needed a fresh new sound--they didn't need to be recording relics of the past that were ancient history. I think Hollands/Beatty understood this, and that's how we got High Energy and MS&S. Those albums had disco cuts--but they were disco when disco was beautiful music, like Barry White's lush, orchestrated dance music. In just a year or two disco got gimmicky and formulaic and it lost me completely. If I could go back in time and pick a producer for the Supremes, it would have been Barry White. Second, maybe Lionel Richie or Maurice White--but they are a distant second behind Barry White.
Carole King? Hmmm--I'd have to think on that. Again, however, popular as King was in the very early 70's, she was of the old school. I'd still go with Barry White. I think he could have captured Mary's voice, in particular, very well.

Glad you are liking this thread. It's kind of all over the place but who cares! Hee hee!

[Ollie9]

Hi Ran Ran. I really enjoy most of Jimmy Webb's work, I really do. But you put it in perspective when you wrote that the Supremes needed hit singles, and Jimmy wasn't really known for that--with some exceptions. After Up Up and Away, Jimmy produced the 5th's second album--The Magic Garden. There were no hit singles on it. Sunshower no hit singles. The Supremes, no hit singles. Yes he had a string of hits with Glenn Campbell, but that didn't last long. Jimmy Webb is a concept album guy. Even so, he had a tendency to pick out some flat out stupid songs for his concept albums--songs like Walk Your Feet in the Sunshine, Paper Cup and Carpet Man.Why cover Tossin' and Turning? That song IMO was just mediocre at best and in no way should have been a single, which it was in the UK. The Supremes needed a fresh new sound--they didn't need to be recording relics of the past that were ancient history. I think Hollands/Beatty understood this, and that's how we got High Energy and MS&S. Those albums had disco cuts--but they were disco when disco was beautiful music, like Barry White's lush, orchestrated dance music. In just a year or two disco got gimmicky and formulaic and it lost me completely. If I could go back in time and pick a producer for the Supremes, it would have been Barry White. Second, maybe Lionel Richie or Maurice White--but they are a distant second behind Barry White.
Carole King? Hmmm--I'd have to think on that. Again, however, popular as King was in the very early 70's, she was of the old school. I'd still go with Barry White. I think he could have captured Mary's voice, in particular, very well.

Glad you are liking this thread. It's kind of all over the place but who cares! Hee hee!

Barry had his Love Unlimited so cannot imagine that he would have been in the least bit interested in producing the Supremes..
What a perfect combination that might have been though. The perfect follow up to FJ. Lush arrangements with great pop hooks. I can almost hear it already. Agree with RanRan in that Produced and Arranged by Jimmie Webb was possibly, make that probably the worst case scenario.

[RanRan79]

Agree with RanRan in that Produced and Arranged by Jimmie Webb was possibly, make that probably the worst case scenario.

Well the worst case scenario with Jimmy Webb. The actual worst case scenario involving the Supremes would've been The Supremes Produced and Arranged By Lawrence Welk. It wouldn't have even charted.

[sup_fan]

what are people's thoughts on Marvin producing the MJL lineup?

for motown to outside of their producers was quite a surprise.

in 72, Marvin was working on Troubled Man soundtrack. frankly i've never been all that much of a fan of that score and maybe working with the Sups would have been a more fruitful project

[BobbyC]

Sup_fan, no I don't think Gaye would have been a good choice. After 1972, his singles chart action was tapering out. In some ways I think Marvin was trapped by the success of What's Going On. How do you compete with that. Marvin was not Stevie Wonder who seemed to crank out hit after hit after hit, along with milestone albums like Innervisions and Songs in the Key of Life. Stevie was diversified but Marvin was not. That being said, why does Marvin need other people to sing his material? He didn't. Stevie was an amazing songwriter but his songs always lent themselves to other people singing them. Susaye sang Knocks Me Off My Feet and nobody said she was trying to copy Stevie. But what if Susaye tried to do What's Going On? I don't think that would work.

[RanRan79]

Sup_fan, no I don't think Gaye would have been a good choice. After 1972, his singles chart action was tapering out. In some ways I think Marvin was trapped by the success of What's Going On. How do you compete with that. Marvin was not Stevie Wonder who seemed to crank out hit after hit after hit, along with milestone albums like Innervisions and Songs in the Key of Life. Stevie was diversified but Marvin was not. That being said, why does Marvin need other people to sing his material? He didn't. Stevie was an amazing songwriter but his songs always lent themselves to other people singing them. Susaye sang Knocks Me Off My Feet and nobody said she was trying to copy Stevie. But what if Susaye tried to do What's Going On? I don't think that would work.

Uh, "Let's Get It On" would rule in 1973. Marvin was years away from his hit action slowing down.

[RanRan79]

what are people's thoughts on Marvin producing the MJL lineup?

for motown to outside of their producers was quite a surprise.

in 72, Marvin was working on Troubled Man soundtrack. frankly i've never been all that much of a fan of that score and maybe working with the Sups would have been a more fruitful project

Marvin had the capabilities to record himself singing the phone book and I would've loved it. However, I've never been a fan of Trouble Man. With that being said, I think him producing the Supremes in 1972 would've been an interesting concept. In reality, Marvin was focused on his own thing and so I don't think he would've really been too interested. But the results I think would've played up the ladies' sexiness without being overt. The tracks would've no doubt been fantastic. LGIO sessions are eargasmic.

What about Willie Hutch? I love the songs he did with Marvin around this time. He also arranged Suzee Ikeda's version of "I Can't Give Back the Love". While I'm not suggesting that he have taken the song from Suzee and given it to the Supremes, I do think it gives a bit of sense of what the group might have done with Willie.

[RanRan79]

Hi Ran Ran. I really enjoy most of Jimmy Webb's work, I really do. But you put it in perspective when you wrote that the Supremes needed hit singles, and Jimmy wasn't really known for that--with some exceptions. After Up Up and Away, Jimmy produced the 5th's second album--The Magic Garden. There were no hit singles on it. Sunshower no hit singles. The Supremes, no hit singles. Yes he had a string of hits with Glenn Campbell, but that didn't last long. Jimmy Webb is a concept album guy. Even so, he had a tendency to pick out some flat out stupid songs for his concept albums--songs like Walk Your Feet in the Sunshine, Paper Cup and Carpet Man.Why cover Tossin' and Turning? That song IMO was just mediocre at best and in no way should have been a single, which it was in the UK. The Supremes needed a fresh new sound--they didn't need to be recording relics of the past that were ancient history. I think Hollands/Beatty understood this, and that's how we got High Energy and MS&S. Those albums had disco cuts--but they were disco when disco was beautiful music, like Barry White's lush, orchestrated dance music. In just a year or two disco got gimmicky and formulaic and it lost me completely. If I could go back in time and pick a producer for the Supremes, it would have been Barry White. Second, maybe Lionel Richie or Maurice White--but they are a distant second behind Barry White.
Carole King? Hmmm--I'd have to think on that. Again, however, popular as King was in the very early 70's, she was of the old school. I'd still go with Barry White. I think he could have captured Mary's voice, in particular, very well.

Glad you are liking this thread. It's kind of all over the place but who cares! Hee hee!

I personally don't like that the Supremes walked into disco territory at all, although I love some of the cuts they recorded in this direction, as well as the disco genre in general. By the time of the Scherrie years, I feel they would've been better served to record music similar to what the Emotions and HOT were recording. As much as I love a lot of the Supremes stuff at this point, I don't think much of anything they recorded, whether released or vaulted, could've competed with the hot female groups at the time.

I think Barry White producing the Supremes, especially when Jean was in the group, would have been heavenly. I am a HUGE fan of Love Unlimited, a group that is in my top 10 favorite female groups of all time. I'm also a HUGE fan of Barry White in general, one of my favorite male vocalists of all time. [[His voice is so underrated. Sure he get's acclaim for the bass and what it does for a sexy song, but not the acclaim he should get for just being able to tear a song all the way down. Man could that brotha sing.) So pairing the Supremes with him and those lush arrangements...I'm almost sad thinking about it and how it never happened.

Agree about Mary also. Barry's album on Gloria Scott is fantastic and she has a Mary-like voice [[I think Mary has more range, personally), so there's no reason to think his arrangements and Mary's warm voice wouldn't have been a good fit.