The Brexit Votes Have it: The U.K. Is Leaving The E.U.

[StuBass1]

Let me give you an example which highlights your last point Jerry...not sure if it agrees or disagrees with your position...However, a person very close to me who immigrated to the United States legally after years of applying and spending tens of thousands of dollars who finally got permission to come to work with her husband...Husband a Phd was able to get a college teaching job, and she, with a masters level degree also a private teacher...Two people coming to contribute to our society and culture having to sign a statement as a condition of work permits that they would never apply for any federal economic assistance and would support themselves...Those same people had to go through all of this while watching "undocumented" or illegal people just walking across the border...some seeking work, others involved in smuggling or other illegal activities...while Los Angeles Country alone spends nearly 2 BILLION dollars per year on services and other costs directly related to the so called undocumented immigrants...Being a taxpayer in Los Angeles county...I can think of many many more pressing needs to spend that 2 Billion dollars on then people who crossed the border illegally, utilized our services, and we paid for their benefits, incarcerations, legal and judicial fees, etc...My question is...how would you feel if you waited years, spent tens of thousands of dollars to come here legally, and then just watched as people walked across the border at will and even being given taxpayer resources for their law breaking efforts???...I have many immigrant friends...most here legally, some perhaps illegally...I have financially helped a couple of them directly to be able to remain here. That said...we have a serious problem going back decades...I don't believe that calling for defined borders is racism...although some people would call anyone who wants our borders protected "racist"...I've come to the conclusion that when people just use the "racism" argument...it's like a quarterback throwing the ball out of bounds in the closing seconds of a close game...It stops the clock for any rational and intelligent discussion on the topic, usually because the accuser has run out of logical arguments...As Edmund Burke I believe stated..."Personal attack is the last refuge of the scoundrel who has nothing of substance to say"...I actually had a guy from Berlin, Germany call me a racist because I was trying to explain some of the reasons the British voted for the Brexit...I responded to this A-Hole that I was out demonstrating for civil rights in the 60's while this jerk was still in lederhosen...and he had some nerve sitting there at the epicenter of Kristallnacht talking about MY alleged racism LOL...There's even more to this story which exposes some of the problems of undocumented people coming here, but I won't go into that now...This first part of the story should end all the discussion ...

[theboyfromxtown]

Let me give you an example which highlights you last point Jerry...not sure if it agrees or disagrees with your position...However, a person very close to me who immigrated to the United States legally after years of applying and spending tens of thousands of dollars who finally got permission to come to work with her husband...Husband a Phd was able to get a college teaching job, and she, with a masters level degree also a private teacher...Two people coming to contribute to our society and culture having to sign a statement as a condition of work permits that they would never apply for any federal economic assistance and would support themselves...Those same people had to go through all of this while watching "undocumented" or illegal people just walking across the border...some seeking work, others involved in smuggling or other illegal activities...while Los Angeles Country alone spends nearly 2 BILLION dollars per year on services and other costs directly related to the so called undocumented immigrants...Being a taxpayer in Los Angeles county...I can think of many many more pressing needs to spend that 2 Billion dollars on then people who crossed the border illegally, utilized our services, and we paid for their benefits incarcerations, legal and judicial fees, etc...My question is...how would you feel if you waited years, spent tens of thousands of dollars to come here legally, and then just watched as people walked across the border at will and even being given taxpayer resources for their law breaking efforts???...I have many immigrant friends...most here legally, some perhaps illegally...I have financially helped a couple of them directly to be able to remain here. That said...we have a serious problem going back decades...I don't believe that calling for defined borders is racism...although some people would call anyone who wants our borders protected "racist"...I've come to the conclusion that when people just use the "racism" argument...it's like a quarterback throwing the ball out of bounds in the closing seconds of a close game...It stops the clock for any rational and intelligent discussion on the topic, usually because the accuser has run out of logical arguments...I actually had a guy from Berlin, Germany call me a racist because I was trying to explain some of the reasons the British voted for the Brexit...I responded to this A-Hole that I was out demonstrating for civil rights in the 60's while this jerk was still in lederhosen...and he had some nerve sitting there at the epicenter of Kristallnacht talking about MY alleged racism LOL...There's even more to this story which exposes some of the problems of undocumented people coming here, but I won't go into that now...This first part of the story should end all the discussion ...

StuBass1

I am on the same wavelength.

Those in the "Leave" camp are now being treated disgracefully by the "Remain" camp and it's a great shame. Worse, that word "racist" is constantly being thrown into any discussion, for the reasons you stated, to stop any rational discussion. It's even been used on this thread.

As much as I hated Thatcher, this is one time when even I would have wanted her to take control. Cameron has let us down and I hope he is shamed in history books as the one that bottled out of leading his country when he was most needed.

[StuBass1]

StuBass1

I am on the same wavelength.

Those in the "Leave" camp are now being treated disgracefully by the "Remain" camp and it's a great shame. Worse, that word "racist" is constantly being thrown into any discussion, for the reasons you stated, to stop any rational discussion. It's even been used on this thread.

As much as I hated Thatcher, this is one time when even I would have wanted her to take control. Cameron has let us down and I hope he is shamed in history books as the one that bottled out of leading his country when he was most needed.

As the link I posted above clearly points out...The UK was out and out lied to when they initially agreed to join the EU...The EU turned into a bunch of unelected bureaucrats making the decisions which affect about 60% of the day to day realities of British life as well as many of the legal and judicial realities in the UK...In other words...Brits gave away their sovereignty under false pretenses to an organization consisting of career politicians...many of whom are only in their positions because they lost elections in their home countries...Their military is a complete joke, so any mutual defense pacts are ridiculous as was clearly illustrated in the Balkans crisis when NATO had to move in...and the UK is certainly entitled to continue their free trade policies...EU or not...That said...the UK can now decide how it will assist countries like Greece who through their own irresponsibility went belly up, and what to do in their own country about immigrants and who will enter their country and under what circumstances...In other words...The UK reclaimed control of their every day lives and returned to a system that served them well for close to 1,000 years...

[Jerry Oz]

StuBass1

I am on the same wavelength.

Those in the "Leave" camp are now being treated disgracefully by the "Remain" camp and it's a great shame. Worse, that word "racist" is constantly being thrown into any discussion, for the reasons you stated, to stop any rational discussion. It's even been used on this thread.

Please click the link below. You'll find an American tourist in Manchester being harassed on a tram. "You're a dirty little immigrant. Get off back to Africa." Consider the fact that the person was neither an immigrant nor from Africa and explain to me why the people doing the yelling are not racists. Anybody who makes an assumption [[positive or negative) based on race and acts on that assumption is a racist. It may not describe you, but do not pretend that race is not a significant reason for the sentiment.
http://crooksandliars.com/cltv/2016/...abuse-american

Just as it was in the earlier example of someone being told to speak English in the UK when they were speaking Welsh in Wales. Had the person not had Islamic clothing and probably a darker complexion, that conversation would not have occurred. People who deny racism exists are the ones who perpetuate it, not those who see it and call it out, even when you don't think it is warranted.

[StuBass1]

Please click the link below. You'll find an American tourist in Manchester being harassed on a tram. "You're a dirty little immigrant. Get off back to Africa." Consider the fact that the person was neither an immigrant nor from Africa and explain to me why the people doing the yelling are not racists. Anybody who makes an assumption [[positive or negative) based on race and acts on that assumption is a racist. It may not describe you, but do not pretend that race is not a significant reason for the sentiment.
http://crooksandliars.com/cltv/2016/...abuse-american

Just as it was in the earlier example of someone being told to speak English in the UK when they were speaking Welsh in Wales. Had the person not had Islamic clothing and probably a darker complexion, that conversation would not have occurred. People who deny racism exists are the ones who perpetuate it, not those who see it and call it out, even when you don't think it is warranted.

I would never condone any overt racist act anywhere, anecdotal or not...But with tens and hundreds of millions of people in any given country...I'm not going to look at the actions of a few moronic knuckleheads and assume that they represent an entire political movement [[although I'm all for dealing harshly with those individuals), anymore than I look at the idiots from PETA or Code-Pink , or other fanatical far left idiots and assume that they represent all left of center thinking here in America...

[theboyfromxtown]

Please click the link below. You'll find an American tourist in Manchester being harassed on a tram. "You're a dirty little immigrant. Get off back to Africa." Consider the fact that the person was neither an immigrant nor from Africa and explain to me why the people doing the yelling are not racists. Anybody who makes an assumption [[positive or negative) based on race and acts on that assumption is a racist. It may not describe you, but do not pretend that race is not a significant reason for the sentiment.
http://crooksandliars.com/cltv/2016/...abuse-american

Just as it was in the earlier example of someone being told to speak English in the UK when they were speaking Welsh in Wales. Had the person not had Islamic clothing and probably a darker complexion, that conversation would not have occurred. People who deny racism exists are the ones who perpetuate it, not those who see it and call it out, even when you don't think it is warranted.

Jerry

I'm not denying that there are racists in the UK but I do not consider race to be a significant issue of Brexit. I also do not consider religion to be a significant issue of Brexit but there are some media folk who would want me to believe it is. That is just my personal opinion.

On my bus ride back from Islington today [[the home territory of Boris Johnson), a mother was shouting at the younger of her 2 little boys in Turkish in a way that made me suspect she must be scolding him. I have no idea why - they were on the bus when I got on. One woman and her friend clearly did not approve as they were making glib comments. Eventually, the mother could hear that they were calling her out. The scolding stopped when both mother and son turned to focus their attention on the two women. The woman who started making the comments was dark skinned but her friend was a much lighter complexion. The Turkish mother had all of her hair fully exposed and was not wearing any religious clothing.

[144man]

StuBass1

I am on the same wavelength.

Those in the "Leave" camp are now being treated disgracefully by the "Remain" camp and it's a great shame. Worse, that word "racist" is constantly being thrown into any discussion, for the reasons you stated, to stop any rational discussion. It's even been used on this thread.

As much as I hated Thatcher, this is one time when even I would have wanted her to take control. Cameron has let us down and I hope he is shamed in history books as the one that bottled out of leading his country when he was most needed.

John,

Boris Johnsof has disassociated himself with one of the Leave campaign posters because he considers it racist.

I agree that focusing on immigration is not in itself racist; but it has the unfortunate effect of encouraging extremists to jump on the bandwagon. There has already been an increase in racist graffiti since the result.

[theboyfromxtown]

John,

Boris Johnsof has disassociated himself with one of the Leave campaign posters because he considers it racist.

I agree that focusing on immigration is not in itself racist; but it has the unfortunate effect of encouraging extremists to jump on the bandwagon. There has already been an increase in racist graffiti since the result.

I have been let down by Boris since the result and I'm now looking at Andrea Leadsom. I dont believe that a former REMAIN campaigner has total commitment to take us forward.

I agree that focusing on immigration does have an unfortunate effect but it needs to be tackled and not glossed over. Every debate that I saw had that topic on the agenda.

[soulster]

I agree that focusing on immigration does have an unfortunate effect but it needs to be tackled and not glossed over. Every debate that I saw had that topic on the agenda.

One cannot deny that a lot of people voted to leave because of immigration issues. Just like here, the extremists latched on to Donald Trump because of his highly offensive anti-immigration stance. Racists can sniff that like nothing else!