Well, RanRan, you may very well be right. There have been so many varying theories on this, who knows what the real answer is? Just to add even more confusion to the mix, I once read where Mary admitted that when she's Christmas shopping in the mall and one of the tracks from The Supremes' "Merry Christmas" is broadcast over the store's speakers, it fills her with warm memories of the recording of that album. My gosh, which of the many theories is true? It's very possible that Mary and Flo were indeed on those sessions, but that doesn't guarantee that those back-up vocal tracks are the ones that Motown used on the final mix. Such is the magic of Motown!
I see ya Phillies. And I believe I read or heard Mary say that about the Supremes Christmas within the last year! You actually make a very valid point. Now to my ears [[which I think are wrong only every now and then, HA!) the released album sounds like Diana and the Andantes. But we also know that Motown productions are no stranger to overdubbing backgrounds or erasing and replacing them altogether. So the fact could be that Diana did some of her leads [[I don't believe every single song was recorded during the vacation) and the Andantes did some of the backgrounds, before Mary and Flo were brought into the project. Someone claimed in the old Flo Ballard yahoo group many moons ago that Harvey Fuqua claimed to have used double tracking on "Santa Claus Is Coming to Town" with Florence [[I assume it was meaning Flo double tracked with the Andantes). I don't know how true that is, but it's possible, I guess. Obviously Flo and Mary were given the opportunity to participate in the sessions as we know Florence got two leads and now we know Mary had one also. Did they also record background vocals that were erased or removed? Until the Funny Girl re-release, I don't think we knew that Mary and Cindy recorded anything on the album, that it was all Diana and the Andantes. Now we know different.
Or maybe the wonderful memories Mary remembers when she hears those Christmas songs are the one lead she was given or the checks she cashed when the album became a hit.
Been keeping an eye on this release on Amazon UK and at the moment it is a bit expensive at almost £23 [[ $30 +) don't think that I will be buying a 4 th version of this Christmas collection
Amazon US just dropped the price.
I’m more excited for this set than I realized. I am medium agnostic, but with all the bonus tracks on these two CDs it looks awesome. Can’t wait until Nov. 3.
The guys sure know how to get extra money out of me. I think it was last Christmas or the Christmas before that I purchased the last Christmas set. Now I'm going to purchase it again for all the extras that weren't on the last one. Crossing my fingers that it will end up worth the price of purchase...again. Lol
The last "complete" Christmas set was a download only, wasn't it? This is actually being released on CD. I'll buy it for the extra tracks, but how many times can this be released?????
This release was going to happen even without our input so it was best that Andy and I do what we could to make it special. We're very happy that the good folks at Real Gone Music and Second Disc Records have given it such deluxe treatment and hope that its success leads to future physical CD releases!
Their latest Dusty Springfield release [[A Brand New Me - The Complete Philadelphia Sessions) suggests otherwise. The strings on much of the remixed main album are hideously shrill. There's even distortion present, where there wasn't previously. The flutes on "Bad Case of the Blues" are... offensive. I thought was the sound was fine on their "Faithfull" release. I'm very disappointed in the Philadelphia release.
Yep more tracks for re-hashing on future Motown Christmas compilations.
But wait - here's another one to be released on 27th October .....
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Motown-Chri...eywords=motown
Or is it?
Last edited by mysterysinger; 10-03-2017 at 07:38 PM.
Funny you should mention that, smallworld [[and I'm not wanting to hijack this Supremes Xmas thread for extended criticism of Real Gone), but I was very disappointed in the remastering/mixing of the "Dusty Springfield: A Brand New Me - The Complete Philadelphia Sessions." I immediately noticed the distortion that was present on this new set and did say something about it to one of the folks at Second Disc. He sincerely appreciated my feedback and was sorry I was disappointed by the sound quality and I felt "heard" by him and not dismissed. He also promised to forward my feedback to the producer of the set and I even gave my permission for the producer to contact me to discuss it further if so desired. Not surprising, I never heard from the producer. I suppose that sound is very subjective and what might sound terrible to me sounds great to someone else--sometimes even gets rave reviews for the remastering/mixing from others. It was rather disappointing that it was promoted as a deluxe treatment being given to the tracks, but I felt that was hardly accomplished. Maybe someday someone else will take a crack at it and get it right?
To comment on this thread. I'll buy the Supremes Xmas collection...again. It's part of being a collector, in my opinion. Plus, when I know Andy and George are involved to whatever degree, the quality will already be up at a higher level.
George, I don't know if you know how much the fans [[e.g. "us") appreciate all you and Andy and Kevin and Harry do for us. But I can tell you it is more than you can ever know. Simply put, you all preserve the collective cultural memory of America. No small thing at all.
Dan, I have to say that I didn't buy the Dusty Springfield set so I can't speak to that set. The recent sets that I've gotten - Laura Nyro, Ann-Margret, Melissa Manchester, Johnny Mathis - have all been wonderfully done. Of course, a lot of them have Joe Marchese involved and you can add his name to Andy & George as releasing quality stuff.
I didn't buy the Dusty Springfield sets that Real Gone put out either, as I already have most of the rare tracks on the Rhino reissues from the 90s and some other sets on her. I considered it though, because Real Gone touted that these were the albums "as originally intended" and also in their marketing materials they were critical of the sound on some of the Rhino stuff. I found that hard to believe, because I think Rhino usually used the best source material available. But if the Real Gone sets really haven't upped the ante any, I won't buy them.
Generally, my experience with Real Gone has been that they have great mastering and transfers, so this criticism is kind of surprising.
I have a few sets from Real Gone - Barbara Lewis, Timi Yuro. Nothing jumped out at me as sounding bad on them. As mentioned, I enjoyed the sound on the "Faithfull" Dusty Springfield set. I'd describe it as slightly smoother than the sound of the same tracks on the Rhino "Dusty In Memphis" from the late 1990s. It's funny because Rhino mastering has sometimes been criticised for being too bright and yet here we have the shrill sound on much of the "Philadelphia Sessions" CD...
While I agree that one's experience of sound is subjective, the presence of audio distortion is a pretty objective marker that something went wrong in the remixing and/or mastering process. The advance promotion credited Tom Moulton but the packaging credits Ted Carfrae. I wonder if that switcheroo has any significance.
I tried to give the remix a chance. I even listened to it with several sets of headphones - some of which have the highs rolled off more than others - no joy. I don't consider myself an audiophile. And I don't generally complain about brightness. I grew up in the CD/Digital era, so my frame of reference has little to do with the expectations based on original vinyl sound.
I expect what Mercury/Universal UK will do is that they'll fix some of these remixes and dribble them out on several more rounds of Dusty Springfield compilations... That tactic makes my blood boil but que sera sera.
To bring the subject back to the upcoming Supremes X-Mas set. I'm expect the sound will be fine. I doubt the artwork will compare favourably with the recent A'Go-Go Expanded - Real Gone clearly don't allocate much of a budget for graphic design. With diminished expectations in that area, I expect most buyers will be satisfied.
Last edited by smallworld; 10-04-2017 at 03:08 PM.
Bumping up this thread as a reminder that this glorious set is being released this week! For all of us Canadian fans...this release is finally up on Amazon Canada for pre-order.
Mine ships Wednesday. Just in time for Christmas music season!
I can’t wait for mine to arrive!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Last edited by longtimefan; 10-29-2017 at 07:59 PM.
I may buy this...my first copy I got in 1968 [[?) and I believe White Christmas and Silver Bells had no background vocals whatsoever.
I cant be certain but I think it was Mono...when I replaced it in the 80's with the Natural Resources [[?) issue I immediately felt like my ears were being assaulted...I prefer the "solo" takes. My 2 favs here
are Born Of Mary and Twinkle Twinkle Little Me...and to me it sounds like Mary and Flo are on those 2
I odered my copy direct from Real Gone [[in my mind, this is a sure fire way to let the company know this is selling!); ordered it Monday night and it shipped on Tuesday! And was even cheaper than Amazon! Let the holidays begin!
Last edited by Circa 1824; 10-31-2017 at 06:16 AM.
Yes, definitely a good option for those of you residing in the States. For those of us elsewhere, such as myself, I tend to try and order online from websites within my own country to avoid duties/import fees, otherwise it gets to be quite pricey. However, I am very happy this is coming out. Any Supremes reissue on CD will get my full support
http://www.importcds.com/the-ultimat...s/848064006428
Pretty good price from importcd's.
Joy & dread.
My copy just arrived today. I opened the package and began by reading the Disc 2 Track-by-track with Andrew Skurow and George Solomon. Quite informative as usual.
And the reveal that the complete 1967 Copa Show would be part of the Holland-Dozier-Holland Expanded Edition [[coming soon from Motown/UMe)!
I thought I would listen to disc 2 first , beginning with the duets. I went to take that disc from the digipak and horrors. It was so tight in the holder . I tried to gently pry it away and then even though I was trying to be as gentle as possible , it cracked. I have never had that happen before.
I am heartsick. I'm sure that I will obtain a replacement when requested.
However , I do hope that no-one else's cd's are as difficult to remove.
So, please be careful.
After working even more gingerly to remove disc 1, I am now listening to the mono versions.
My heart goes out to you, luckyluckyme. I've had that happen twice [[in one sitting, no less) and it's sickening. I don't know why the CDs are suddenly being manufactured so tight on the hub this year, but it's becoming more and more frequent with more and more releases.
Between my good Motown buddy Kenneth and I, we came up with a semi-solution to help prevent this problem from happening:
1) When removing the CD from its hub, use your thumb to press as hard as you can on the hub itself while removing the disc. This tends to release some of the pressure on the disc.
2) Think of the disc as a clock with numbers 12 o'clock), 3, 6, and 9 o'clock. While pressing on the hub with your thumb, simultaneously use your fingers to gently-but-firmly lift the disc at the 12 and 3 o'clock positions. Or at the 9 and 12 o'clock position. Any two combinations should work as long as the two positions are next to each other. DO NOT TRY TO REMOVE THE DISC AT THE 12 AND 6 O'CLOCK POSITIONS NOR THE 3 AND 9 O'CLOCK POSITIONS. It puts too much pressure on the disc and will guarantee breakage. Trust me, I'm speaking from experience!
I hope this helps. Musically speaking, there is nothing more heartbreaking than a CD breaking -- especially a Motown CD!
Hey George and/or Andy... can you tell us what other songs were recorded for this that did NOT get vocals ? I have heard Winter Wonderland and Santa Baby. Were there other ? Were these Christmas songs all done around that 1965 timeline ? They recorded that one Disney Christmas song in 1967, did they record any other Christmas in 1966 to 1969 ?
Thanks for all your hard work on these. Looking forward to picking up my copy at Amoeba in Hollywood this weekend.
I will have to try this method, thanks.
I had trouble with the new Brenda Holloway Spellbound CDs. What I did was to place all five fingers on the CD and turn or rotate the CD back and forth while pulling-up gently on the CD. This seemed to work. Maybe it's just a variation on what you suggest. Hopefully either one or both methods help someone.
#191 on the Amazon Sales Chart! ..the girls can still move product as they say in the music biz! and yes, the CDs are tight in the package so press down on the center holder until the CD comes loose don't try and grip it out! I've learned from past experience; listening to my just arrived copy right now!
I.AM.SO.HAPPY with this set! I expected a plain two disc box but it is EXACTLY like a Universal expanded edition. Same type of packaging, but in addition, it has a Motown replica label, which has not been the case for some of the Universal expanded editions. If we can get more of these licensing arrangements to get more expanded editions out, then I say do so. [[I assume this was a licensing agreement with RealGone and not that they are a subsidiary).
I did hear that Sing HDH was almost done. I think it was originally released in January 67.....hmmmm 50 years flew by
Once again a great set. Got mine today and of course went immediately to the new tracks. Mary's lead on Christmas Song is frankly one of her best. Especially from the 60s. She sings w a wonderfully full voice and phrasing. It would have been great to hear her full version on this song.
Frankly I'm not as much of a fan of these manufactured duets. But I'll take them over missing out altogether on a track. It does make me wonder if the Mary track on Christmas Song and Diana track on Silent were either incomplete or perhaps some glitches in the vocal that make the producers not want to release. I know that some fans like to throw dirt onto one Sup or another saying they can't sing. I wouldn't be opposed to getting tracks w errors or missed notes or problems. I think they'd be fascinating views into their recording process
Diana's vocal was incomplete for "Silent Night." The booklet says Mary did a gentle scratch vocal on "The Christmas Song." She probably had some vocal glitches preventing them from releasing a complete vocal, but I think the duets are great especially the ending of "Silent Night."
And where is this rare and hard to find picture of Andy posing with H/D/H Expanded?
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