Gospel Stars, Twistin' Kings etc CDs now available to order

[Calv1971]

Just checked on Amazon.co.uk and The Gospel Stars, Twistin'Kings, Tamla Special No.1, etc are now available to order @ the pre-order price of £2.21.

[booty]

There are 5 titles being released on 20th February. In addition to those listed by Calv1971 are "More Marv Johnson" & "Cookin' With The Miracles"

[kenneth]

There are 5 titles being released on 20th February. In addition to those listed by Calv1971 are "More Marv Johnson" & "Cookin' With The Miracles"

Let's hope the price for "More Marv Johnson" is a misprint. But hey, at least you get free shipping!

http://www.amazon.com/More-Marv-John...159724&sr=1-12

More Marv Johnson

Marv Johnson [[Artist) | Format: Audio CD
Like [[0)

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Price: $349.19 & this item ships for FREE with Super Saver Shipping. Details Special Offers Available Pre-order Price Guarantee. Learn more.

This title will be released on February 20, 2012. Pre-order now! Ships from and sold by Amazon.com. Gift-wrap available.

[booty]

Seems as though the Marv Johnson title has gone up already. Now showing at $417.64!!!

[144man]

Those who have these on vynil won't be too happy to see their value plunging.

[Calv1971]

These silly prices seem to be showing on Amazon.com only, surely they must be a mistake. I checked on "Coming soon" Hallmark CDs and they too show a lot of other titles at $417.64 and $8.76!!!!!!!!!. I would say order from Amazon.co.uk to get the guaranteed pre-order price of £2.21.

[kenneth]

Seems as though the Marv Johnson title has gone up already. Now showing at $417.64!!!

Geez, I should have bought it when it was only $349!!!

[mr_postman]

Thanks Calv1971. Gospel Kings, Twistin' Kings and Tamla Special #1 ordered.

[mysterysinger]

Got my order in so thanks for the info. These will complement the 5 bought in January!!! Thank heavens they're only £2.21 as otherwise I'll end up broke. The prices do seem to vary quite a lot though once the cds have seen release. Now then, what's coming in March? Over to you Hotspurman!

[BayouMotownMan]

These are bootlegs copied from vinyl, these people do not have access to the direct masters of these albums. Expect them to be removed from the market in the near future

[Roger Polhill]

Just as well I got my order in quickly.

[mysterysinger]

Thanks Bayou - its good that people know exactly what they're getting before buying and can make their choices based on that. I, for one, have never heard the Twistin' Kings album, nor the Great Gospel Stars [[though I do have whatever was released on TCMS) so this is a good chance to acquire these at a good price. I doubt they were going to get an official release any time soon. The amount of stuff coming out from these labels is phenomenal [[not just Motown related). If they should get withdrawn from sale I wonder what will happen to the prices. Maybe I should order a dozen of each.

[paul_nixon]

Just to put the matter straight these are legal releases, they are out of coyright and so Hallmark have every right to release them. They are certainly not bootlegged. In the same way that a free downlaod of Chales Dickens novels for a Kindle or e reader is not a bootleg.
There maybe changes to the copyright law in the future which will outlaw any future releases such as these but the plans are not retrospective so any releases up until that date are and will remain legal.
So however you feel abut the copyright law is your own opinion and how you view these releases is equally so but they not bootlegs or unlawful.

[Hotspurman]

Thank you Paul - I thought we'd covered just about all of the legal aspects about these on an earlier post! As you state, these are not illegal and as the law in Europe cannot be applied retrospectively, they are not going to be withdrawn.

As far as the future is concerned, however, I'm sure there may be one or two areas that could be exploited, if the major record companies agree to play ball. As I am sure everyone here is aware, what the copyright term extension is all about is protecting the likes of The Beatles, Rolling Stones, Beach Boys et al. It would be niaive to think otherwise, and it wouldn't really be worth our while putting out Revolver if we actually got the chance. Yet even Universal are aware that they now have so many copyrights, they just don't know what to do with them. A year or so ago, Universal handed over some 100,000 tracks, all of which were still under copyright in the US [[where the term is 95 years), to a library, which the library could load up and make freely available. Let's say, for the sake of argument, that Columbia [[Sony) decide they are not going to do anything further with their Lawrence Welk catalogue, or EMI with Gerard Hoffnung - might it not be better to do a deal with other smaller companies [[even budget companies) so that the repertoire gets out there? As I explained previously, the problem for the time being has been the major's expectations of an advance has priced many of the more esoteric releases off the radar - £500 per track was the norm, and even £500 per album is still too high. I know you will say 'he would say that', but look at the finances - an advance of £500, pressing costs of £400 on a thousand untis, MCPS payments of 8.5% of the dealer price, distribution costs etc etc and you will appreciate why these can be expensive items to get out on to the market.

Here's another thing to consider - according to the last figures I saw, less than 10% of all recorded music is currently available, and that includes itunes. So there are millions of tracks that were recorded, briefly released and have now simply disappeared off the face of the earth. So if the original copyright holders don't want to release Sonny Dunham, why shouldn't we?

With regards to March releases, well there is nothing of Motown interest [[we've done them all!), although we do have Bobby Rydell, Bobby Rydell & Chubby Checker, Gary US Bonds, Lawrence Welk, Dorsey Burnette, Sandy Nelson, The Chckmates [[Emile Ford) and several others. And don;t forget we also do DVDs - The Ballad Of Andy Crocker features Marvin Gaye in a cameo role, which we released last year, and we have an exclusive on Toomorrow, which was Olivia Newton John's film debut.

[BayouMotownMan]

Paul, if these CDs are not straight from the original masters, then how can they not be considered bootlegs?

[kenneth]

Paul, if these CDs are not straight from the original masters, then how can they not be considered bootlegs?

A bootleg is a recording which is produced illegally. These recordings, though not "authorized" by those who originally produced them, are not bootlegs in that the copyright on them has either lapsed or not been renewed.

Many authorized recordings are still transfers from vinyl or other than the original masters, if the masters are in bad shape or lost. But those would not be bootlegs either.

I'm glad to see these come out. I have the original LPs of the Gospel Stars and Twistin' Kings but will buy these anyway. The Kings' album is great fun and the Stars, well, you'll feel like you're back at a church in Detroit hearing something live and spontaneous.

I don't feel that releases of this type take anything away from anyone; rather, they make the recordings available to many who otherwise wouldn't get to hear them.

[mysterysinger]

...and because they're not the "official" Motown releases, personally I would also still acquire a genuine Motown CD if I saw it cheap enough. Therein lies another issue because much of the market for Amazon, That's Entertainment and certainly EBay is from second hand CDs, the artists and record companies surely don't benefit from that. Yet no one is decrying that as a method of obtaining recorded work.

[BayouMotownMan]

Mysterysinger, what is "That's Entertainment?" Is this a site to buy used CDs?

[mysterysinger]

That's Entertainment is a UK chain of shops that have a huge range of cheap CDs and DVDs etc. They have stores in Manchester [[Market Street) and at Cheshire Oaks Outlet, for example. Their web site has a lot more choice than in store but it is possible to get some different offers in the shops than on-line.

http://www.thatsentertainment.co.uk/...FcEntAodfQqK5g

[BayouMotownMan]

Actually I am trying to find outlets specializing in cassettes and reel to reels. Any ideas?

[144man]

Would it be illegal to export them to the USA?

[Hotspurman]

Amazon.com have them on their site as imports. I believe the company that is exporting them is Windsong [[but I may be wrong on that).

[mysterysinger]

I, for one, really appreciate Hallmark making the Motown stuff available to collectors and will support these releases - long may it continue.

Yes it looks like the 1961 albums will be exhausted with the February batch but as has been pointed out there is still plenty of other good stuff to come. I wasn't sure about the Tamla Special Number 1 release as one website has the release shown in 1962.

Another question re copyright though, given what has been said about copyright periods being different in the UK and USA. Since these Motown albums didn't see UK releases, how is it that they are considered out of copyright now? If Motown now released them officially in the UK, would their copyright start again?

[Kamasu_Jr]

I, for one, really appreciate Hallmark making the Motown stuff available to collectors and will support these releases - long may it continue.

Yes it looks like the 1961 albums will be exhausted with the February batch but as has been pointed out there is still plenty of other good stuff to come. I wasn't sure about the Tamla Special Number 1 release as one website has the release shown in 1962.

Another question re copyright though, given what has been said about copyright periods being different in the UK and USA. Since these Motown albums didn't see UK releases, how is it that they are considered out of copyright now? If Motown now released them officially in the UK, would their copyright start again?

I've ordered them as well. I noticed there were releases on Mary Wells, Marvin Gaye, The Miracles and the Marvelettes as well.

[Hotspurman]

The situation with Tamla Special is that the album was released in 1962, but all of the tracks were released in 1961 or earlier. With regards to the copyright issue between the US and UK, the fact they were released anywhere in the world prior to 1961 puts them in the public domain in the UK. This is one area where the longer copyright term in the US does not hold preference. Interestingly enough, the situation with films is almost the complete opposite - in the US, any film that was not registered for copyright or was not renewed has fallen into the public domain. This includes one of the Lassie films, Suddenly and The Man with The Golden Arm [[both starring Frank Sinatra) and many of the early John Wayne films. Also in the public domain in the US is The Smallest Show On Earth starring Peter Sellers. We could release this in the US as a PD film, but over here the UK copyright still holds, which is seventy years after the death of the producer, director and writer. So we cannot release it in the UK. Are you with me so far?

As you know, there are several Motown albums [[and I'm using Motown here purely as an example) that were never released, such as Herbie Williams, which I know was recorded in April to September 1963. As it was never released, technically it will never fall into the public domain, so don't expect Hallmark to start issuing this in a couple of years! Were it released officially, then the clock would start ticking the moment it is released.

[justanothermotownfan]

I would LOVE to hear the Herbie Williams album. ALL of the unreleased Workshop Jazz albums, in fact.

[mr_postman]

Hotspurman, with regards to Tamla Special No. 1, since the LP was released in 1962 will you be using the original LP as a the source or do you compile the songs from wherever they were originally released [[on LP's or 45's)?

[Hotspurman]

We used the original LP - although this was released in 1962 the recordings still predate this so are still in the public domain. You will recall on earlier posts I had stated we [[Hallmark) don't use CD reissues, and this is true, we don;t as this would be piracy, but the vinyl editions are fair game I guess.

[motown_david]

Is there a web site, hotspurman, where I can find out about upcoming releases on Hallmark?

[Calv1971]

Motown David - If you visit Amazon.co.uk, put music in the category choice and in the box next to it type in "Hallmark CDs" this will bring up all the titles available, to keep a check on what is coming from them look to the near top left of the page and it will give a short list of the days of recent releases, when it says next 30 days or so, then you know you will see listed the next batch of new releases.

[mr_postman]

Thank you, hotspurman. That's what I wanted to hear.

[motown_david]

Thanks for that, Calv1971.

David