***TAKE ME HIGHER 30th ANNIVERSARY***

[Boogiedown]

isn't it supposed to be something about how a musical experience is a brief and fleeting thing? and the spontaneity of jazz means a live concert is truly a 1x thing?

ya probably, but that's no fun!

[sup_fan]

BTW I'm not faulting Miss Ross for this, I think its true for 90 percent of singers.... The music is a means, a means to fame & stardom.

i think partially. with Diana, I think one of her biggest strengths is lyrical interpretation and because of that, i think that means she does find even more and even deeper meaning to music. i think it was Lamont Dozier that said he was sure she could be an actress because of how she would immerse herself into the lyrics and the storyline. how she would "become" whatever the song was saying. So i think having that level of connect to the lyrics means music isn't simply a route to success.

but i do think that as time when on, she began to focus on other things. in the 80s it was about business and family. and she didn't do as many "passion" projects as you might think. i think Stolen Moments was one and she's done a few more. but there aren't as many "hey it's not about success, it's about just doing a project i've alway wanted to do."

and now i think she's mostly just enjoying her time on stage, reliving the fun songs.

[Boogiedown]

i think partially. with Diana, I think one of her biggest strengths is lyrical interpretation and because of that, i think that means she does find even more and even deeper meaning to music. i think it was Lamont Dozier that said he was sure she could be an actress because of how she would immerse herself into the lyrics and the storyline. how she would "become" whatever the song was saying. So i think having that level of connect to the lyrics means music isn't simply a route to success.

but i do think that as time when on, she began to focus on other things. in the 80s it was about business and family. and she didn't do as many "passion" projects as you might think. i think Stolen Moments was one and she's done a few more. but there aren't as many "hey it's not about success, it's about just doing a project i've alway wanted to do."

and now i think she's mostly just enjoying her time on stage, reliving the fun songs.

I like this and I would say lyrical delivery is Diana's biggest strength and is what likely sealed the deal on their biggest hits and that only failed when pushed to the limit ....NO MATTER WHAT SIGN YOU ARE ...
I've always felt this about Elton John as well and how he turned phrases that made Bernie Taupin's lyrics sound far more valuable than they actually were ...those were songs before they dissolved into the ISLAND GIRL era, where again you can only apply your talents so far.

Anyway Lamont Dozier is an excellent source. But I don't think that it makes the argument that she craved music. She seemed to have functioned in a bubble. She was very good though at handling what was handed her.


A thought that popped in my head .... even with Marvin Gaye she didn't see him as a talent to tap into.....they didn't enter the studio to create music, they just did what was handed them ..and even at that she sang at him not with him ....

Added more: Lionel has said that she took what were intended to be his lines on ENDLESS LOVE and delivered them so well he surrendered them to her.


Added more: Don't jump to the conclusion that stolen moments was an exercise of passion and not a business deal ....as a cash-in on the 20th anniversary. She sold a pay-for-view airing of the concert.

[sup_fan]

I like this and I would say lyrical delivery is Diana's biggest strength and is what likely sealed the deal on their biggest hits and that only failed when pushed to the limit ....NO MATTER WHAT SIGN YOU ARE ...
I've always felt this about Elton John as well and how he turned phrases that made Bernie Taupin's lyrics sound far more valuable than they actually were ...those were songs before they dissolved into the ISLAND GIRL era, where again you can only apply your talents so far.

Anyway Lamont Dozier is an excellent source. But I don't think that it makes the argument that she craved music. She seemed to have functioned in a bubble. She was very good though at handling what was handed her.


A thought that popped in my head .... even with Marvin Gaye she didn't see him as a talent to tap into.....they didn't enter the studio to create music, they just did what was handed them ..and even at that she sang at him not with him ....

Added more: Lionel has said that she took what were intended to be his lines on ENDLESS LOVE and delivered them so well he surrendered them to her.


Added more: Don't jump to the conclusion that stolen moments was an exercise of passion and not a business deal ....as a cash-in on the 20th anniversary. She sold a pay-for-view airing of the concert.

based on the limited info we have on her early life - hers and Randy's books - she was always singing as a kids and performing. by the sounds of it, she was that Type A personality of a child that would have been doing the dance moves and singing in the Kindergarten Christmas talent show with more exuberance than the rest. you know the type. she had a highly creative personality - look at her fashions and designs! and she most likely found multiple ways to express this. and the key word there is "multiple" because she discovered that she could sing and express herself in special ways and then she could perform and that was another creative express and then there was her persona which includes design/dress/style/attitude/etc and that's yet another creative outlet. and they all interplay

marvin IMO is a different form of creativity. he was about the creation process - writing, composing, recording, editing, producing, etc. From what i've heard, he hated stage performance and publicity. he hated the image motown foisted upon him.

Lionel and Stevie I don't know as much about. but Michael is another variation. he's sort of a combo of Marvin [[the creator) and Diana [[the persona).

So i don't think diana approached music simply like punching a time card to earn a buck. but it is a different form of musical expression than others like marvin.

[Ollie9]

Could it be that we want to credit Diana Ross too much as being a musically invested person? She mostly stuck her finger in the air to see which way the wind was blowing and recorded accordingly.

I don't think she cared one iota that she was presenting something as meaningful as Billie Holiday's story to the world or how accurate she was being. This was her vehicle to stardom.
... As is all the music.

There was never a songbook of personal favorites. Apparently FOOLS FALLING IN LOVE was about it.

I think the same was probably true of Streisand and Funny Girl in that it was mostly viewed as a vehicle to greater things.
I agree regarding Diana sampling the air with her finger. I think there came a point in time where she was trying to follow trends instead of setting them, usually a few years to late.
As opposed to jazz, i think the genre of music closest to her heart are those from her childhood years in the 50’s. Six years after the success of “Fools”, 50’s retreads were still a feature of her albums.

[Boogiedown]

As opposed to jazz, i think the genre of music closest to her heart are those from her childhood years in the 50’s. Six years after the success of “Fools”, 50’s retreads were still a feature of her albums.

What are the 50's songs she's redone?

[Boogiedown]

So i don't think diana approached music simply like punching a time card to earn a buck. but it is a different form of musical expression than others like marvin.

I think this is a closer description of how she handled music than not.

[Ollie9]

What are the 50's songs she's redone?

Why Do Fools Fall In Love
Mr Lee
There Goes My Baby
Sweet Nothings.

60’s covers…
Rescue Me
Selfish One
Tell Mama
Sweet Soul Music.
So Close - traditional 50’s vibe

[thommg]

Added more: Don't jump to the conclusion that stolen moments was an exercise of passion and not a business deal ....as a cash-in on the 20th anniversary. She sold a pay-for-view airing of the concert.

I think, after playing Billie Holiday, that Diana did have an appreciation for those songs. I always felt she did Stolen Moments as a pay-per-view concert because she wanted to sing that music but didn't want to do a whole tour singing jazz standards. Her lyrical abilities were always evident, even on her pop songs, and she could stretch a bit doing this concert. So, I guess I would disagree that it was purely a business decision and more of a decision about how to do something she wanted to do and make some money on it.

[sup_fan]

Why Do Fools Fall In Love
Mr Lee
There Goes My Baby
Sweet Nothings.

60’s covers…
Rescue Me
Selfish One
Tell Mama
Sweet Soul Music.
So Close - traditional 50’s vibe

IMO this was a major misstep by Diana, in relation to what seemed to have been her goal of maintaining herself as a current, relevant pop artist. because of her age and tenure in the industry, by the 80s she was naturally going to be an "oldie" but by basically including an oldies tune on just about every RCA project, she was only reinforcing that and making it harder to define herself as a modern pop artist. if she was ready to shift into more AC genre, great. go for the oldies content. but i think it didn't help her stay relevant to the younger 80s music shopper. They already considered her "old" and this just confirmed it.

[sup_fan]

I think, after playing Billie Holiday, that Diana did have an appreciation for those songs. I always felt she did Stolen Moments as a pay-per-view concert because she wanted to sing that music but didn't want to do a whole tour singing jazz standards. Her lyrical abilities were always evident, even on her pop songs, and she could stretch a bit doing this concert. So, I guess I would disagree that it was purely a business decision and more of a decision about how to do something she wanted to do and make some money on it.

i was just rereading some of the Wikipedia and other online info on Stolen Moments. sounds like the initial idea was to just do a 1-night concert at a small, intimate jazz club in NYC. the label then wanted to make this a bigger event by recording the audio and video which necessitated the venue being changed to a somewhat bigger one. So looks like the original concept was just a small club date with limited publicity. a true night out at a jazz club.

Also the list of musicians is just spectacular. these are really giants in their area/instrument. they also purposely didn't have tons and tons of rehearsal time together because they wanted it a bit more impromptu. they didn't want to too perfected. and in the recording you hear the realness. a couple times Diana sort of shifts some of the lyrics, the interplay between the musicians is raw and real

[reese]

i was just rereading some of the Wikipedia and other online info on Stolen Moments. sounds like the initial idea was to just do a 1-night concert at a small, intimate jazz club in NYC. the label then wanted to make this a bigger event by recording the audio and video which necessitated the venue being changed to a somewhat bigger one. So looks like the original concept was just a small club date with limited publicity. a true night out at a jazz club.

Also the list of musicians is just spectacular. these are really giants in their area/instrument. they also purposely didn't have tons and tons of rehearsal time together because they wanted it a bit more impromptu. they didn't want to too perfected. and in the recording you hear the realness. a couple times Diana sort of shifts some of the lyrics, the interplay between the musicians is raw and real

I'm sure she was glad to work with Gil Askey again. He was living in Australia by that time.

[sup_fan]

I'm sure she was glad to work with Gil Askey again. He was living in Australia by that time.

what a talent!! the work he did with motown, with Diana, with the Sups [[both with and without Diana) was always excellent. imagine what HIS book would be like!

[reese]

what a talent!! the work he did with motown, with Diana, with the Sups [[both with and without Diana) was always excellent. imagine what HIS book would be like!

It would be nice if he left his heirs with a journal. He worked with many acts, both in and out of Motown. No doubt he had an interesting life.

[Ollie9]

IMO this was a major misstep by Diana, in relation to what seemed to have been her goal of maintaining herself as a current, relevant pop artist. because of her age and tenure in the industry, by the 80s she was naturally going to be an "oldie" but by basically including an oldies tune on just about every RCA project, she was only reinforcing that and making it harder to define herself as a modern pop artist. if she was ready to shift into more AC genre, great. go for the oldies content. but i think it didn't help her stay relevant to the younger 80s music shopper. They already considered her "old" and this just confirmed it.

It seems Diana recorded whatever songs were closest to her heart which just happened to be 50’s and 60’s oldies. Because of this i think she lost a lot of the youth market she had recruited along the way with The Boss and diana sets.
As an eighteen year old at the time of WDFFIL, i remember friends mocking the album for songs such as “Sweet Nothings” and even “Two Can Make It” as sounding old hat.

[sup_fan]

It seems Diana recorded whatever songs were closest to her heart which just happened to be 50’s and 60’s oldies. Because of this i think she lost a lot of the youth market she had recruited along the way with The Boss and diana sets.
As an eighteen year old at the time of WDFFIL, i remember friends mocking the album for songs such as “Sweet Nothings” and even “Two Can Make It” as sounding old hat.

totally agree. and there's inherently nothing wrong with doing AC material, preferring songs that you have a personal affinity to. if that's your goal and strategy, marvelous! go for it

but i'm pretty sure that was NOT what RCA was spending the $20M on. this is also probably why the Arlen project was shelved, or at least partly.

Sweet Nothings could have worked if it was the ONLY campy tune on the lp. If she had focused on this harder rock sound of Mirror Mirror, Sweet Surrender, Think I'm In Love and then a rewritten Work The Body, it would have been an excellent album. if you had 7 or 8 quality songs of rock and ballads, then 1 tune which is playful and campy and the "eye wink" can work.

And Two Can Make It is really weak. Never Too Late is much stronger [[although IMO it sounds like a cheesy 80s sitcom theme lol). I think Anywhere You Run To from Silk Electric is better than either of these 2 songs.

[Ollie9]

totally agree. and there's inherently nothing wrong with doing AC material, preferring songs that you have a personal affinity to. if that's your goal and strategy, marvelous! go for it

but i'm pretty sure that was NOT what RCA was spending the $20M on. this is also probably why the Arlen project was shelved, or at least partly.

Sweet Nothings could have worked if it was the ONLY campy tune on the lp. If she had focused on this harder rock sound of Mirror Mirror, Sweet Surrender, Think I'm In Love and then a rewritten Work The Body, it would have been an excellent album. if you had 7 or 8 quality songs of rock and ballads, then 1 tune which is playful and campy and the "eye wink" can work.

And Two Can Make It is really weak. Never Too Late is much stronger [[although IMO it sounds like a cheesy 80s sitcom theme lol). I think Anywhere You Run To from Silk Electric is better than either of these 2 songs.

It’s funny, because “Anywhere You Run To” also sounds like the theme to a cheesy 80’s sitcom, especially the intro.
Thank the gods “We Are The Children” wasn’t around to have been added to the album, likely in place of “Mirror Mirror” lol.

[sup_fan]

It’s funny, because “Anywhere You Run To” also sounds like the theme to a cheesy 80’s sitcom, especially the intro.
Thank the gods “We Are The Children” wasn’t around to have been added to the album, likely in place of “Mirror Mirror” lol.

haha yes i do agreee Anywhere could have been an 80s theme song too. but i do still think it's a stronger recording and a more assertive lead from Diana

Children is just ghastly. although what i don't like is the out of tune children's chorus. first, i find the addition of children's voices to be questionable on ANY song. and second, why disparage children's choirs by assuming they can't sing in key?!?!? lol good kids choirs can certainly carry a tune as simple as WATC or the equally hideous Children's Christmas Song. In any form, WATC would be full on 80s cheese. like Velveeta. lol but had the kids been cut, it would at least be a catchy brainworm. and it too would have been perfect for use in a "montage scene" from some goofy 80s film lol

[florence]

From Discogs, it looks like Voice of the Heart was only a b-side in the UK - to I Will Survive.

I'm surprised to read that the EMI disc has different mixes to the Motown. I thought there were just shorter edits between the two discs.

I can't find a trace of the Gone cassette mentioned above. Was this a commercial release? Were the tracks unlisted on the sleeve?

It was the B side to “I Will Survive” flo. I hope I’m not getting mixed up with it being a double A side in the USA, but she was seen promoting the song on UK tv at the time.

Thanks for the replies, guys.

I may be wrong but I don't think it was released as a double A-side in the UK because it would have been listed as such in the charts.

I never saw her saw her perform Voice Of The Heart on UK TV - she did do I Will Survive on The National Lottery Show which propelled the single to a new entry at #14 the following week but it the dropped away very quickly selling only around 45k.

I had expected it to slightly better but perhaps the public associated the song too much with Gloria Gaynor.

I have found it as the last track on the CD single - there's IWS and then two remixes of it followed by Voice - I never even knew I had it.

I would have had Voice as a single - not a big hit but surely Top 40.

I do think the probability is that she performed Voice as promotion for the album.

Take Me Higher goes down as a Top 10 album in the UK but that's simply because most people that bought it did so in the week of release - it dropped away very quickly.

It got a Silver Disc but I'm not even sure it sold the 60k - this was achieved on shipments to shops - returns were never taken into consideration

[sup_fan]

Thanks for the replies, guys.

I may be wrong but I don't think it was released as a double A-side in the UK because it would have been listed as such in the charts.

I never saw her saw her perform Voice Of The Heart on UK TV - she did do I Will Survive on The National Lottery Show which propelled the single to a new entry at #14 the following week but it the dropped away very quickly selling only around 45k.

I had expected it to slightly better but perhaps the public associated the song too much with Gloria Gaynor.

I have found it as the last track on the CD single - there's IWS and then two remixes of it followed by Voice - I never even knew I had it.

I would have had Voice as a single - not a big hit but surely Top 40.

I do think the probability is that she performed Voice as promotion for the album.

Take Me Higher goes down as a Top 10 album in the UK but that's simply because most people that bought it did so in the week of release - it dropped away very quickly.

It got a Silver Disc but I'm not even sure it sold the 60k - this was achieved on shipments to shops - returns were never taken into consideration

yeah i think IWS is simply too iconic and associated with Gloria Gaynor. Diana's cover is solid and all but it's like Kim Wilde doing that cover of You Keep Me Hangin On. it did well but no one on the planet is going to say she surpassed the original.

which is why i think Carry On was a better opportunity for her to hit with a cover. sure some segments know of the original but not like IWS. it also has the inspirational message that she loves.

[Ollie9]

Thanks for the replies, guys.

I may be wrong but I don't think it was released as a double A-side in the UK because it would have been listed as such in the charts.

I never saw her saw her perform Voice Of The Heart on UK TV - she did do I Will Survive on The National Lottery Show which propelled the single to a new entry at #14 the following week but it the dropped away very quickly selling only around 45k.

I had expected it to slightly better but perhaps the public associated the song too much with Gloria Gaynor.

I have found it as the last track on the CD single - there's IWS and then two remixes of it followed by Voice - I never even knew I had it.

I would have had Voice as a single - not a big hit but surely Top 40.

I do think the probability is that she performed Voice as promotion for the album.

Take Me Higher goes down as a Top 10 album in the UK but that's simply because most people that bought it did so in the week of release - it dropped away very quickly.

It got a Silver Disc but I'm not even sure it sold the 60k - this was achieved on shipments to shops - returns were never taken into consideration

She performed “Voice Of The Heart’ live on the Des O’Connor show as well as another of which i can’t quite remember the name.