pivotal positive moments for the group

[sup_fan]

on FB someone posted the Sullivan clip of the girls doing YCHL. i remember the commentary track on the Reflections dvd talking about what a groundbreaking performance this was. while the girls had always been elegant and lovely, this YCHL clip was the first time the girls were mega glamour. it wasn't just a next step in their look but a major catapult forward. the high-mod Gingrich styled wigs, the over the top sequin gowns [[i think these were Mackie gowns).

To see this on tv for the first time had to be a moment. like Luther Vandross later mentioned, everyone would anticipate "what will the supremes wear next!!" and this became synonymous with their image and history

so what other game-changing, pivotal moments would you highlight? and let's NOT focus on the pain points, like Flo's departure. let's focus on the positives. was there a record? tv appearance? Copa? Lincoln Center? endorsing Herbert Humphrey [[one of the first times a pop group did such a thing).

[jobucats]

To me, a pivotal moment back in the day was their release, "You Keep Me Hangin' On." Up to that point, most of their singles, with a possible exception of "Love is Like an Itching," were formula-written and performed/recorded in dainty, girl-next-door manner.
"You Keep Me Hangin' On", again for me, had an edge to it that was quite different from their prior catalogue. Even Diana's lead vocal, while still strong, lacked that syrupy sound I was used to hearing.
This was a positive move thanks to HDH as they experimented with their productions for not only Supremes, but for other acts such as the Four Tops; such recordings as "7 Rooms of Gloom", "Bernadette."

[daviddh]

i would say ,Reflections was cool. those silver peacock gowns were eyecatching
Love Child performance on Sullivan
the TCB opener in the lime green and pink swirl gowns, Stop!

[copley]

I never cared less what they were wearing as for the most part they always looked good. I was far more interested in the songs they were singing. First major change for me as 'Itching' which was a totally different sound which did not sit well with some fans thereby killing its chances of #1. 'LIHANYG' was the next change, once again a different sound, difficult to sing and not really commercial. 'Reflections' is up next as gone was any beat in favour of a lighter touch. The much hated 'Forever Came Today' was a very complex song as far removed from their old sound as you could get. It was one of HDH's fav compositions. Lastly 'Love Child' which IMHO was a move back to a more classic Supremes sound but that was not a bad thing. As for what they wore at the time when singing them I have no idea.

[Spreadinglove21]

Come See About Me on Ed Sullivan was a positive pivotal moment for the group and for Motown.

[RanRan79]

I have to imagine that playing the Apollo the first time boosted their confidence as entertainers. I know Mickey Stevenson is quoted as saying the Apollo didn't like the Supremes the first time, but neither Mary nor Diana seem to have seen it that way. [[I can't recollect if Flo's memory of playing there with the Supremes has been documented, although it's worth noting that she played the Apollo before the Supremes did...as a Marvelette.) And with the reputation the Apollo had for being a place where they made certain there wasn't a doubt to whether or not an act was liked, if the Supremes walked off the stage without a "boo" or a tomato stained dress, I think it's a safe bet that the girls made a good impression, even if it was a bit different than their more raucous peers. And surviving a week or two at the Apollo had to give them some serious confidence. Who knows how things might have changed if they had gone on stage at such a historic venue and fallen completely flat. [[On an index card used by Apollo management to note performances, the card devoted to the Supremes starts with their October 1963 gig and describes them as "quite good".)

[RanRan79]

The performance the girls did I think on Mike Douglas, when they did "Back", "Somewhere", "You're Nobody", was there a fourth song? Anyway, that performance is I think the first time on television that people watching may have had an inkling that the Supremes were going to be more than an act that has a few hits and disappears. I think they really set themselves apart from their female competition here.

[lucky2012]

I agree that You Keep Me Hangin' On was definitely the most innovative single. I was stunned and a little confused the first time I heard it on the radio. I think it is a more lasting achievement than Reach Out I'll Be There, released a couple of months earlier, and often cited and praised by music critics/reviewers/historians.
But earlier in 1966, My World Is Empty Without You struck me as very different, more mature and sophisticated than previous Supremes [and Motown] singles. Reflections and Love Child were also pivotal singles, striking and progressive, keeping the Supremes interesting and relevant.

Supremes A Go Go and Greatest Hits, Volumes 1 & 2 were pivotal, landmark albums. I mean, who didn't buy, have, listen to or know about these albums in 1966 and 1967 [ the Supremes peak years, imo].

As for their appearance and what they wore. I always thought they looked beautiful and glamorous. My parents thought they wore too much makeup, though.

[sup_fan]

i wasn't around in 68 but for those fans that were, did you watch TCB? what was your first impression of the opening with that wild plexiglass stage and within seconds in comes the girls in those amazing swirl gowns

[RanRan79]

But earlier in 1966, My World Is Empty Without You struck me as very different, more mature and sophisticated than previous Supremes [and Motown] singles.

I absolutely agree Lucky. Mary mentioned "I Hear a Symphony" as a turning point in sound and sophistication, and on one hand I can see her point. The previous six singles were all pretty much in keeping with what one might expect from the so called "girl group" era. "Symphony" was a bit different, but IMO, it still retained some of that "girl group" element.

"My World" was a total departure in sound IMO. Give that song to the Temptations, Four Tops, Kim Weston, shoot, even Aretha Franklin, and it would fit with how intensely emotional the lyrics are. The Supremes hadn't yet been known for that kind of seriousness with a single and to me it ushered them into a new phase of their career where they could "officially" hang with the big dogs and not be relegated to "girl group" status, if that makes any sense.

[RanRan79]

I think it's safe to say that "Where Did Our Love Go" was probably the single biggest pivotal positive moment in the group's career. That song was HUGE, sold oobers, and of course was the first of 12 Hot 100 number ones. I really don't understand why it appears the 60s Supremes never did perform the song after 1965. It's not in any of the documented medleys. You would think it would have been in the hits medley on Sullivan in 66 and the one in 69, at least, but nope. Florence once said it was her favorite. Both Diana and Mary have been on record that they didn't care for the song at first, but I guess that never changed, although the song did end back up in hits medleys during the 70s, so maybe it was just Diana.

[jobeterob]

WDOLG is impossible to replicate live and when done live sounds very simplistic and tinny - that’s why I’ve always thought it was never performed live very often

[sup_fan]

WDOLG is impossible to replicate live and when done live sounds very simplistic and tinny - that’s why I’ve always thought it was never performed live very often

i agree. i would also assume that the girls had some vote in the hits they did. Copa 65 had 6 hits - Where through Nothing. for the Roostertail 66 show, there are 7 - BL, Come See, Stop, Back, Symphony, My World, YCHL. but as the show evolved in late 66/early 67, they seemed to mostly do 4 or so of the latest hits in full and then the medley.

so why did a song like My World stay [[it didn't reach #1) but Itching didn't stay for Roostertail, even though it was a newer song? and both Nothing and Where are gone

it could be about which songs translated best to a big stage act. if you go listen to BL on the TCB show, they've added strings and all sorts of orchestration but it still works. structurally there's more to the song than WDOLG.

And the girls simply probably had their favorites. it wouldn't be a shock if M and F weren't huge fans of performing WDOLG since there's really very little for them to do. BL had more intricate parts. and doing their stage act day in and day out, again and again, things might get mundane.

[sup_fan]

I think it's safe to say that "Where Did Our Love Go" was probably the single biggest pivotal positive moment in the group's career. That song was HUGE, sold oobers, and of course was the first of 12 Hot 100 number ones. I really don't understand why it appears the 60s Supremes never did perform the song after 1965. It's not in any of the documented medleys. You would think it would have been in the hits medley on Sullivan in 66 and the one in 69, at least, but nope. Florence once said it was her favorite. Both Diana and Mary have been on record that they didn't care for the song at first, but I guess that never changed, although the song did end back up in hits medleys during the 70s, so maybe it was just Diana.

in another post i was talking about how hard it was to maybe replicate the magic of WDOLG live and was talking about how a song like BL just had more to it. but that's not to minimize the value of WDOLG. talk about a revolutionary song! you had recently had the "wall of sound" stuff in 63 and into 64, you had the cutesy girl group stuff out of the Brill Building, elvis and other rockers and then wildness of I Want To Hold Your Hand, Twist and Shout, Can't Buy Me Love

then something unlike anything ever before

the simplicity of WDOLG is exactly what makes it work and made it so new. it was a perfect lead vocal and voice, the hypnotic Baby Baby, the stripped down and sophisticated backing track and marvelously mixed in the studio

[reese]

I think it's safe to say that "Where Did Our Love Go" was probably the single biggest pivotal positive moment in the group's career. That song was HUGE, sold oobers, and of course was the first of 12 Hot 100 number ones. I really don't understand why it appears the 60s Supremes never did perform the song after 1965. It's not in any of the documented medleys. You would think it would have been in the hits medley on Sullivan in 66 and the one in 69, at least, but nope. Florence once said it was her favorite. Both Diana and Mary have been on record that they didn't care for the song at first, but I guess that never changed, although the song did end back up in hits medleys during the 70s, so maybe it was just Diana.

Even Diana included it in her Supremes medley beginning in 1989, and another in the 2000s.

[TNSUN]

The song "The Happening" is a pivotal moment because the song has the pop music mark of the 1960's.

[RanRan79]

WDOLG is impossible to replicate live and when done live sounds very simplistic and tinny - that’s why I’ve always thought it was never performed live very often

I do think some of the live versions we've heard sound very simple, but then the record itself was simple. But not all the versions sound like that. They killed it on TAMI Show and the version from the 20 Grand in 1964 is a highlight of the show.

I have to imagine that as popular as the song was, it had to be a disappointment for fans to not hear it in the live act. Really weird decision.

[RanRan79]

Even Diana included it in her Supremes medley beginning in 1989, and another in the 2000s.

You're right. I have audio of Diana doing it at RTL and again in 2008 in NYC.