Was the "Touch" single the Supremes demise?

**Jimi LaLumia** · 08-28-2011, 02:56 PM

listening to the "Touch" album, and I realized what an enormous flop the "Touch" single was; it seems like the group's chart troubles on the U.S. pop chart started there,and they never really recovered;
in my opinion, "Touch" should have never been a single release, Miss Wilson's voice these days is amazing, but I think her on going crisis of confidence vocals sank the group with this track stiffing out in the 60's on Billboard's pop chart

**rod_rick** · 08-28-2011, 03:32 PM

Originally Posted by Jimi LaLumia

listening to the "Touch" album, and I realized what an enormous flop the "Touch" single was; it seems like the group's chart troubles on the U.S. pop chart started there,and they never really recovered;
in my opinion, "Touch" should have never been a single release, Miss Wilson's voice these days is amazing, but I think her on going crisis of confidence vocals sank the group with this track stiffing out in the 60's on Billboard's pop chart

don't think it had anything to do with Touch as a single. They Bouced back with Floy Joy with Wilson on lead vocals with Jean. Motown must have had confidence in Touch because if they didn't do you think they would have released it as a single, unless they were trying to kill the group off. I don't think it was Mary's call to release Touch as a single, don't know if she had that kind of pull back then.

**motony** · 08-28-2011, 03:37 PM

the artists did not decide what the single release would be & no promotion as Motown wasn't concerned with the group, "let em sink or swim" type attitude.The LA people at Motown didn't care about the Detroit artists.

**BobC** · 08-28-2011, 03:46 PM

Hi Jimi--I think that's wrong. As a kid "coming to" in the mid 70's, I never heard ANY 70's Supremes songs on the radio with the exception of "Stoned Love" as an oldie [[I liked it) and "Floy Joy" ONCE--and I thought it sounded cheesy. I was a music freak, so it wasn't like I wasn't listening to the radio. I bought the "Touch" album around 1976, having never heard "Nathan Jones," and frankly as a kid I couldn't tell Mary's voice from Jean Terrell's. As an adult I can, but back when I was at an age when I was furiously buying all kinds of pop music, it wouldn't have made one bit of difference if it was Jean or Mary on lead. It was all about the song.

Even as I bought back catalogs of Motown artists [[and I loved the song "Touch") those old Motown groups just didn't keep up with the sound of the times. I'm being honest here as a guy who missed Motown's hey day in the 60's. "High Inergy" and "MSS" were both "in the moment" when they came out--right up there with groups like Labelle and Rufus, but the Supreme's VISUAL image didn't match the music at all. Those gown and wigs just seemed phony to me--like old school show biz.

**kenneth** · 08-28-2011, 04:09 PM

I think as a younger fan, BobC's comments are likely not just his perception but accurate. From an overall image, the other groups were passing the Supremes visually as well as in their recordings. I was loyal to the end, and loved them, but I think it fair to say their image was aging rapidly compared to the other groups mentioned. The Sups likely had an odd choice to make: try and update to a more contemporary look and feel and risk alienating their longer term fans.

Does anyone remember when the Village People tried to update their image with a punk look? I may be the only one, but I remember the album cover, and thinking...WTF...? Not to compare the two groups - obviously the VP had no real talent other than the lead singer and their own dancing abilities - but it more or less put the nail in their coffin.

Seeing the Sups in Labelle-type garb just wouldn't have rung true.

**Jimi LaLumia** · 08-28-2011, 04:27 PM

"Touch" was a terrible song, probably her manager/husband's idea; by this point, Motown was probably happy to sink the ship;

**kenneth** · 08-28-2011, 04:34 PM

Originally Posted by Jimi LaLumia

"Touch" was a terrible song, probably her manager/husband's idea; by this point, Motown was probably happy to sink the ship;

I loved the song! I thought it was a great ballad and beautiful interplay between the two leads. Getting as much milk as possible from the cash cow without investing in promotion before its natural end is not the same as a conspiracy to sink them. There was still money to be made on the group and the last incarnation was still a few years in the future, conspiracy theories or not!

**BobC** · 08-28-2011, 04:38 PM

Ken--I think you are right. Most of the pop world never heard of the Bluebelles and that's how they were able to radically revamp their look. The Supremes, on the other hand, were sort of trapped in that old image. I think they were onto something with their look on "MSS"--they should have gone sexier but classy, less make-up, that kind of thing. I remember finding Scherrie really sexy--she seemed naturally sexy just as she was, the way the original Supremes looked in early clips.

Oh GOD--I forgot about the Village People going for that New Romantic look. I laughed when I saw that. Talk about trapped in your old image!

smark21 · 08-28-2011, 04:47 PM

Originally Posted by Jimi LaLumia

"Touch" was a terrible song, probably her manager/husband's idea; by this point, Motown was probably happy to sink the ship;

Pedro wasn't even in the picture when Touch was released. Didn't Supremes fan clubs lobby hard for this song to get a single release? The song works fine as an album cut, but not sure if it was single material, and if it were, it might have worked better if either Jean or Mary sang the entire lead rather than duet on the song.

**rod_rick** · 08-28-2011, 04:53 PM

Originally Posted by BobC

Hi Jimi--I think that's wrong. As a kid "coming to" in the mid 70's, I never heard ANY 70's Supremes songs on the radio with the exception of "Stoned Love" as an oldie [[I liked it) and "Floy Joy" ONCE--and I thought it sounded cheesy. I was a music freak, so it wasn't like I wasn't listening to the radio. I bought the "Touch" album around 1976, having never heard "Nathan Jones," and frankly as a kid I couldn't tell Mary's voice from Jean Terrell's. As an adult I can, but back when I was at an age when I was furiously buying all kinds of pop music, it wouldn't have made one bit of difference if it was Jean or Mary on lead. It was all about the song.

Even as I bought back catalogs of Motown artists [[and I loved the song "Touch") those old Motown groups just didn't keep up with the sound of the times. I'm being honest here as a guy who missed Motown's hey day in the 60's. "High Inergy" and "MSS" were both "in the moment" when they came out--right up there with groups like Labelle and Rufus, but the Supreme's VISUAL image didn't match the music at all. Those gown and wigs just seemed phony to me--like old school show biz.

By 75 the Supremes were pretty finished with the wigs, now they were still in the gowns but most of the other girl groups of the time were as well with the exception of Labelle. Now I will say that in the 60's early 70's, motown was a creative force. By the mid 70's and on they were jumping on the current trend of the moment so the supremes were victims of that, not setting trends but following them.

**BobC** · 08-28-2011, 05:13 PM

Rod--I guess I'm referring to the videos the Supremes made for the MSS singles and the last appearance on that talk show. When I saw those glittery gowns they were in, they just seemed out of the 60's, whether they were wearing wigs or not. Scherrie only had that dated look on the "All I Want" Cher performance, and then she seemed to have gone back to a more natural look. For me, I was seeing Chaka Khan wearing leather, feathers and animal skins, Labelle in space suits and other glam costumes, PFunk in their funny get-ups--all that seemed cool to me. Fortunately at the time I never saw the Supremes on TV or I would have been turned off. The music was great though.

I'm not trying to dog anybody else's tastes, just being honest about how I saw things as a kid. Remember, a year or two is like a lifetime for a kid in elementary or Jr High School and tastes change rapidly.

I thought "Touch" was a great soul ballad, one of the best of the 70's--but I wouldn't consider it a pop song, really. Mary and Jean sounded great on it. I know Randy T thought Mary's "unfamiliar voice" was a problem, but I think he's wrong. I have read that the single version of that song had "awkward editing"--and if that was true, it says a lot about how serious Motown was at this point in promoting the Supremes.

**Jimi LaLumia** · 08-28-2011, 05:40 PM

the Supremes were far from over at that moment;
the biggest top 40 station in America, our very own 77WABC AM [[home of Cousin Brucie) played every 70's Supremes single right up to,and including, "Nathan Jones"[[and the tight playlist WABC only played hits, and their playlist linfluenced the rest of the country's Top 40 stations);
Supremes fans were not used to shared lead vocals, especially when one of those vocals was weak in spots[[sorry,Mary)and the down tempo put me to sleep BPMs was NEVER indicative of The Supremes, from 1964 and thereafter;
it's not like they were coming off a series of flop singles, and there were plenty of better choices to follow "Nathan"; "This Is The Story" would have been perfect..
then, after "Touch", "Floy Joy", a shared lead vocal again,which did not get NY airplay on WABC, and in the aftermath of "Touch" 77WABC didn't go near a Supremes simgle ever again, and neither did any of the other big Top 40's;
this was an apparent kamakazie mission to give Mary her moment in the sun; it was NOT the right moment[[again, my opinion)

**rod_rick** · 08-28-2011, 06:16 PM

Originally Posted by Jimi LaLumia

the Supremes were far from over at that moment;
the biggest top 40 station in America, our very own 77WABC AM [[home of Cousin Brucie) played every 70's Supremes single right up to,and including, "Nathan Jones"[[and the tight playlist WABC only played hits, and their playlist linfluenced the rest of the country's Top 40 stations);
Supremes fans were not used to shared lead vocals, especially when one of those vocals was weak in spots[[sorry,Mary)and the down tempo put me to sleep BPMs was NEVER indicative of The Supremes, from 1964 and thereafter;
it's not like they were coming off a series of flop singles, and there were plenty of better choices to follow "Nathan"; "This Is The Story" would have been perfect..
then, after "Touch", "Floy Joy", a shared lead vocal again,which did not get NY airplay on WABC, and in the aftermath of "Touch" 77WABC didn't go near a Supremes simgle ever again, and neither did any of the other big Top 40's;
this was an apparent kamakazie mission to give Mary her moment in the sun; it was NOT the right moment[[again, my opinion)

I guess things were different on the west coast because all of the 70 supremes singles got airplay. They were in contant rotation on most pop and all the RandB stations. Now I have to admitt the only singles I didn't much of was Bad Weather, I Guess I'll Miss The Man and Let Yourself Go

**Jimi LaLumia** · 08-28-2011, 06:46 PM

well, I guess those L.A.stations didn't have as much 'sales clout' as NY's Top 40 power houses, cos with all that airplay you mention, none of those singles sold enough to chart well, if at all..

**REDHOT** · 08-28-2011, 07:55 PM

When i frist heard THE SUPREMES TOUCH album,i fell in LOVE with THE SUPREMES,all over again,at MARY get's a lead,with her sister SUPREME,JEAN TERRELL,TOUCH,i love it.
Please stay positive

**Jimi LaLumia** · 08-28-2011, 08:21 PM

I am positive, but this is a discussion board, not a gushy fan club page, as far as i know..
and I know that the "Touch" single sank The Supremes, the beginning of the end..
"Touch" was ok as an album track, it should have never represented the Jean-led group as a single

**BayouMotownMan** · 08-28-2011, 09:07 PM

Personally I don't think the Touch single marked the end of the Supremes so much as it exemplified the transition of the group with Motown.

In 1970 the Supremes were quite hot again, three big hits and even a duet with the Tops. In early 1971, at the urging of Jean Terrell, Mary starting "questioning" things at Motown. This was not taken well. The ladies moved to management outside of the company and commissioned their own fan club. The result, single releases were spaced further apart and less planning put into each release. New Ways competed with Magnificent 7, resulting in split sales. Then Touch competed with Return of to again split the sales. Nathan Jones did well, but not nearly what it deserved. Motown began relocating and looking more toward self-contained artists.

Nathan Jones was off the charts a couple months when the Touch single was released. Motown waited too long. It was Frank Wilson who edited the song rather oddly and gave the single more of a brassy feel. It just wasn't commercial. Wasn't danceable and didn't have a good hook. There were really were no other singles off of the Touch album, possibly a remix of Here Come The Sunrise.

In any event, the new Supremes were still "proving themselves" so to speak and had been accepted by the record-buying public. They couldn't afford a bomb while still in this process. The Touch single just didn't sound like a Supremes record. Thus, not surprisingly, it broke the string of success for the new Supremes.

**Jimi LaLumia** · 08-28-2011, 09:23 PM

that's exactly what I've meant from the beginning...thank you..[[I didn't know that Jean was stirring the pot at Motown, though)..Johnny Raven could have been a single, This Is The Story as well, either is 100 times better than "Touch'

**redlabs** · 08-28-2011, 09:54 PM

i liked the single and the album TOUCH.
the single did have a bad edit/mix but i thought that HERE COMES THE SUNRISE was to be the 2nd single in mid summer but it didn't happen and i think TOUCH was finally released as a single in Sept. way to late but it did better on the Casbox charts reaching #54?
i didnt think the group was over until Bad Weather. then i knew it was over.
also , the group didnt promote the song that much compared to the other singles.?? they only performed the song oce on Flip Wilson .

**Jimi LaLumia** · 08-28-2011, 09:57 PM

Supremes peaking at #54 should have been a clue..it was a total stiff...
what a shame, the turn of events, a lot of it probably based on inter label,personal politics

**kenneth** · 08-28-2011, 10:00 PM

Originally Posted by REDHOT

When i frist heard THE SUPREMES TOUCH album,i fell in LOVE with THE SUPREMES,all over again,at MARY get's a lead,with her sister SUPREME,JEAN TERRELL,TOUCH,i love it.
Please stay positive

I believe that "Touch" was famously the first Supremes LP to be reviewed by Rolling Stone, and remember it had liner notes by Sir Elton.

**Jimi LaLumia** · 08-28-2011, 10:06 PM

i have it in front of me, Elton was friends with Cindy from her Bluebelles days..the RS review was pretty positive,after all their late 60's Motown bashing

**kenneth** · 08-28-2011, 10:07 PM

Originally Posted by Jimi LaLumia

i have it in front of me, Elton was friends with Cindy from her Bluebelles days..the RS review was pretty positive,after all their late 60's Motown bashing

Would you be able to scan and post that review? It would be great to read it.

**Jimi LaLumia** · 08-28-2011, 10:22 PM

I have the album in front of me, not the RS review, but I remember it..you might be able to find it on line..I think because Gordy wouldn't advertise, they went with Atlantic soul, and beat on Motown for all the show tunes, etc..I was a kid, reading all this in the 60's, it stayed with me..never a review for Supremes, Vandellas, Marvellettes, nothing..like it didn't exist, everything was Aretha and Tina Turner[[who was still with Ike)

**kenneth** · 08-28-2011, 10:27 PM

Originally Posted by Jimi LaLumia

I have the album in front of me, not the RS review, but I remember it..you might be able to find it on line..I think because Gordy wouldn't advertise, they went with Atlantic soul, and beat on Motown for all the show tunes, etc..I was a kid, reading all this in the 60's, it stayed with me..never a review for Supremes, Vandellas, Marvellettes, nothing..like it didn't exist, everything was Aretha and Tina Turner[[who was still with Ike)

Ah...misunderstood...thanks anyway.

I think the first time the Motown catalog got serious consideration from the "rock world" was in those early Record Review Guides. "Albums of the 60s," and so on...I don't remember their exact titles or who wrote them, though I still have them somewhere. Anyway, that critic loved the girl groups and gave the Supremes and Marvelettes as much credibility as the P-Funk Mob and others who came in with more "rock credibility" than the earlier Motown groups.

**kenneth** · 08-28-2011, 10:30 PM

I didn't find the "Touch" review but look what I found on the Rolling Stone list of 500 Greatest Albums of all time!

422. At Budakan CHEAP TRICK
423. Anthology DIANA ROSS AND THE SUPREMES
424. Sleepless PETER WOLF
425. Another Green World BRIAN ENO

Here's a link to the full list if anyone's interested ===> http://dj-funktual.hubpages.com/hub/...ms-of-All-Time

**Jimi LaLumia** · 08-28-2011, 10:33 PM

cool..
although they dissed the hell out of the group until years after Ross left;
when she did "Lady Sings", Ralph J.Gleason became a Ross fan in Rolling Stone[[he knew Billie Holliday and was a jazz expert)

**kenneth** · 08-28-2011, 10:35 PM

Originally Posted by Jimi LaLumia

cool..
although they dissed the hell out of the group until years after Ross left;
when she did "Lady Sings", Ralph J.Gleason became a Ross fan in Rolling Stone[[he knew Billie Holliday and was a jazz expert)

It is true most people expected her to bomb in that film. It's still a great performance, I saw it not too long ago, though of course they do play fast and loose with the facts of Holliday's life. Still I think one of the best show business bios ever. Of course Richard Pryor's staggering performance almost stole the show.

**Jimi LaLumia** · 08-28-2011, 10:53 PM

the NY Punk scene gave major respect to The Marvelettes, both Blondie and patti Smith covered "Hunter Gets Captured By The Game"
Johnny Thunders[[formerly of The New York Dolls ) had an underground hit with his cover of "Do You love Me" with his band The Heartbreakers

**pj1** · 08-28-2011, 11:42 PM

One thing about "Touch" has always puzzled me. There seems to be something that we haven't yet been told.
Frank Wilson has stated in interviews that the song was structured specifically for Mary [[although she did not know it at the time, according to her comments in the 70's Supremes Anthology)
Frank says "I was always looking for something that could highlight her sultry voice. We [[Frank Wilson & Pam Sawyer) wrote this song for Mary so it did not start out as just any song. We were looking for a song for her."
Why and when it became a duet has not fully been revealed, as far as I remember.
Did Frank record a version with just Mary on lead? Has it survived in the vaults? Was Jean's voice added because of the writer's judgement call -Mary's voice not yet exhibiting the confidence needed to carry the song, not projecting the exact feeling/ sentiment the author envisioned, etc?? Is there a version with only Jean's lead in the vault?

**chestersong** · 08-29-2011, 12:08 AM

as George Solomon has stated many times, and once again recently on MJ's radio show, the single edit included on the GH&RC cassette release proved why the single failed the group. the group in no way failed the single. and Mary has stated over and over again that the group had no control over their albums or singles. hopefully Andy and George can do a "re-mix", rather than a new edit of TOUCH someday. i enjoy the song, but only certain edits. Frank Wilson was brilliant. and the cover photo from the Touch album is just wonderful!!!

ladonna · 08-29-2011, 12:09 AM

Originally Posted by kenneth

I believe that "Touch" was famously the first Supremes LP to be reviewed by Rolling Stone, and remember it had liner notes by Sir Elton.

I wonder if there is anything that REDHOT doesn't like.

**kenneth** · 08-29-2011, 12:11 AM

Originally Posted by ladonna

I wonder if there is anything that REDHOT doesn't like.

I don't know, but as Redhot would say, "Please stay positive!"

**jobeterob** · 08-29-2011, 12:35 AM

Touch was my favorite 70's Supremes single. Looking back, it seems an odd choice for a single, especially for those days. And it was a departure from the more familiar sound.

The line about it beginning the demise of the Supremes is from some book and while it might be a valid idea, it is now one of those lines quoted as the gospel and I don't think it should be.

There were lots of reasons for the Supremes demise ~ poor management, lack of direction, infighting amongst the group, too many personnel changes, and more than anything, the group was regarded as old. So it certainly wasn't only Touch that did it.

ladonna · 08-29-2011, 12:39 AM

Okay, I am positive that Touch was not a good record. And, I do recall there was a huge fan push that it be released as a single. Everyone was stoked that Mary was finally stepping to the fore, and I was eagerly anticipating this single being released. I saw it as another re-invention of the Supreme's image, if you will. And then I heard it, and thought what is so great about this? My dismay was momentarily relinquished when I saw the cover and all of the girls were looking so thin, refreshed and CURRENT. Then I listened, and for the most part, was underwhelmed by the entire Touch project. When Floy Joy hit, with that hot album cover and a cohesive group of songs, with an updated take of the Supreme sound, I knew it was again that the good times would roll, for a while they did. Bad Weather is my fave 70 Supreme's song and to this day, I don't understand why it didn't hit. At the time I was into the club scene quite a bit, and when Bad Weather hit the turntable, everyone hit the dance floor. Many of us actually went to the disco with whistles intact, waiting for that moment. LOL! Others have stated that promotion of the 70 Supreme's stuff fell off during this time frame; however, I live in Denver, Colorado [[not exactly a music hub) and the Supremes never were lacking of promotion here. And for the record, I am "positive" about everything I've written here. ;o)

**chestersong** · 08-29-2011, 12:40 AM

maybe jimi meant the "touch" dress that mary once wore for publicity?

**jobeterob** · 08-29-2011, 01:07 AM

Bad Weather was another very bad choice for a single; I don't care who wrote it; it is a plodding, going forever at the same pace melody and not much of a melody at that. I don't understand how anyone at Motown could have expected that to do much.

**jillfoster** · 08-29-2011, 01:50 AM

Originally Posted by BayouMotownMan

Personally I don't think the Touch single marked the end of the Supremes so much as it exemplified the transition of the group with Motown.

In 1970 the Supremes were quite hot again, three big hits and even a duet with the Tops. In early 1971, at the urging of Jean Terrell, Mary starting "questioning" things at Motown. This was not taken well. The ladies moved to management outside of the company and commissioned their own fan club. The result, single releases were spaced further apart and less planning put into each release. New Ways competed with Magnificent 7, resulting in split sales. Then Touch competed with Return of to again split the sales. Nathan Jones did well, but not nearly what it deserved. Motown began relocating and looking more toward self-contained artists.

Nathan Jones was off the charts a couple months when the Touch single was released. Motown waited too long. It was Frank Wilson who edited the song rather oddly and gave the single more of a brassy feel. It just wasn't commercial. Wasn't danceable and didn't have a good hook. There were really were no other singles off of the Touch album, possibly a remix of Here Come The Sunrise.

In any event, the new Supremes were still "proving themselves" so to speak and had been accepted by the record-buying public. They couldn't afford a bomb while still in this process. The Touch single just didn't sound like a Supremes record. Thus, not surprisingly, it broke the string of success for the new Supremes.

And the record company and naysayers said the exact same thing about Roberta Flack's "First Time Ever I Saw Your Face" the very next year. It was too slow, no hook, not danceable. Well, hello... ballads aren't supposed to be danceable. "Touch" was supposed to be make out material. And the only mistake was not having Mary sing it by herself. And "Here Comes The Sunrise" was totally single material.

**jillfoster** · 08-29-2011, 01:58 AM

Originally Posted by ladonna

Okay, I am positive that Touch was not a good record. And, I do recall there was a huge fan push that it be released as a single. Everyone was stoked that Mary was finally stepping to the fore, and I was eagerly anticipating this single being released. I saw it as another re-invention of the Supreme's image, if you will. And then I heard it, and thought what is so great about this? My dismay was momentarily relinquished when I saw the cover and all of the girls were looking so thin, refreshed and CURRENT. Then I listened, and for the most part, was underwhelmed by the entire Touch project. When Floy Joy hit, with that hot album cover and a cohesive group of songs, with an updated take of the Supreme sound, I knew it was again that the good times would roll, for a while they did. Bad Weather is my fave 70 Supreme's song and to this day, I don't understand why it didn't hit. At the time I was into the club scene quite a bit, and when Bad Weather hit the turntable, everyone hit the dance floor. Many of us actually went to the disco with whistles intact, waiting for that moment. LOL! Others have stated that promotion of the 70 Supreme's stuff fell off during this time frame; however, I live in Denver, Colorado [[not exactly a music hub) and the Supremes never were lacking of promotion here. And for the record, I am "positive" about everything I've written here. ;o)

What's so great about the record is the soft, sensual, relaxing feeling of the song. Mary sounds wonderful on it, and to be honest, it's just too jarring when Jean comes in. If anything, Jean is the one who sunk the song, or Frank Wilson for making it a dual lead. And if you think songs such as "Touch" aren't hit material, then all you ahve to do is take a listen to Dusty Springfield's "Look Of Love"... THAT is the arena they were going for with "Touch", and if Mary had sung it by herself, it might have made it. Mary's voice is like a velvety blanket that just surrounds you.

**REDHOT** · 08-29-2011, 02:11 AM

I'v heard people say THE SUPREMES did TOUCH on THE FLIP WILSON SHOW,now that i would love to see that,and yes,i love all THE SUPREMES,from the 70s, some of they're music didn't hit,i still love them,no matter what.Mary,Cindy Jean,Lynda,Scherrie,and Susaye were the greatest.[[to me)I just wish MOTOWN had push them.I hope one day,one of THE SUPREMES groups,from the 70s,do a reunion,just for fun,or maybe just for THE FANS.[[smile)
Please stay positive

**kenneth** · 08-29-2011, 04:25 AM

Originally Posted by jillfoster

And the record company and naysayers said the exact same thing about Roberta Flack's "First Time Ever I Saw Your Face" the very next year. It was too slow, no hook, not danceable. Well, hello... ballads aren't supposed to be danceable. "Touch" was supposed to be make out material. And the only mistake was not having Mary sing it by herself. And "Here Comes The Sunrise" was totally single material.

Didn't "First Time" get famous after it was used extensively in the Clint Eastwood film, which I also think was the first he directed, "Play Misty for Me?" I think that was a year or two after its initial release, and it then became a hit.

**Jimi LaLumia** · 08-29-2011, 06:33 AM

you are correct, the Clint eastwood film made it a hit, and regardless, Supremes fans didn't want a Roberta Flack record.."Touch" was an awful choice for a single, and "Bad weather" was...BAD, and not in the 'street' definition of the word

smark21 · 08-29-2011, 07:55 AM

Even if Touch had done well, The Supremes would have faded from the charts anyway like almost all acts do. Time and aging are the great equalizers.

**blueskies** · 08-29-2011, 09:11 AM

Originally Posted by smark21

Even if Touch had done well, The Supremes would have faded from the charts anyway like almost all acts do. Time and aging are the great equalizers.

I think Smark nailed it. Everything has a shelf life.

**stephanie** · 08-29-2011, 02:33 PM

Ill tell you what sank Touch "lack of promotion". Floy Joy, Automatically Sunshine, and Nathan Jones got massive radio play and promotion. I saw the Supremes on Soul Train doing Floy Joy all of the kids in my neighborhood and school were singing it along with Nathan Jones. Sunshine had a good hook although it didnt get the airplay that the other two got. Touch has a weird sound to it the mixing or something was not quite right. I remember hearing these strings in the beginning and although I could hear Mary it was like her voice was in the background on the single version. Taraborelli was wrong [[IMO) regarding the public not being familiary with Marys voice because Floy Joy was a hit. Touch was not a great song but it was a good song. Regarding the album as a fan I like Happy Is a Bumpy Road but some of the songs on there were troo trie to be considered soul music. Its So Hard for Me To Say Goodbye or Here Comes the Sunrise would have made great singles they have that punch that sells. I like Johnny Raven but it would have been too trite to make it. If Touch had been in a movie or soundtrack I think it would have done well like Roberta Flacks song which bored me stiff as a child I appreciate it now. Timing is everything if Afternoon Delight had come out in the 80s it would have been laughd off of the face of the planet. Can you imagine hits like Convoy, Sometimes when we Touch, 65 Love Affair and songs of that ilk coming out in the 80s! Poison whom I like would not have made it in the 70s. You had the singer songwriter era and with the exception of Marc Bolon, and David Bowie [[both of these men were creative) the hair bands were not the thing back then or the glam sounds. New York Dolls, Blondie, The Ramones were underground but they for the most part had a cult following and wer huge amongst rebels and those on the New York Scene. I think the only reason Blondie made it was becuase they had a hit and more hits stemmed from that. To this day I will ever understand how Rapture became a hit record. Touch had the right voices and came at the right time I think it was the fact that you didnt hear it on the radio or see it being sung on television.

**copley** · 08-29-2011, 03:24 PM

Just throwing this in. 'Touch' was never released in the UK where the Supremes were massive in the early '70's. It's a good album track but IMHO was not single material. As for 'Bad Weather' it's my fav Jean lead Supremes single. I know that many UK fans rate it highly.

**Jimi LaLumia** · 08-29-2011, 03:56 PM

"Floy Joy" was not a hit on the level of all the singles that came before "Touch".and the East Coast Top 40 stations, which had always embraced The Supremes[[N.Y.C. especially) shunned "Touch" and everything thereafter with all the shared lead vocals;
The Supremes was never about shared vocals,leave that for The Osmonds..

**BayouMotownMan** · 08-29-2011, 06:55 PM

Floy Joy was surprisingly popular down south, it received heavy rotation here. I only heard Touch on one of the lower wattage stations. The last record to get airplay in the deep south was Automatically, for a few weeks.

We can all argue if Touch hurt matters, well, I think we agree it didn't help anything.

**luke** · 08-29-2011, 07:22 PM

Well said Jill. IMO Touch was miles ahead of Floy Joy which was a throwback. Touch was so much more sophisticated and yes it was risky odds wise releasing a ballad but its' quality demanded it. I agree Mary should have sung the whole thing. Jean is a magnificent singer but it was Mary's song. I imagine group politics demanded Jean have lead lines too as she was hte usual lead singer. at least at that point. And I wish they had turned up Cindy even more at the end---lovely ending.

smark21 · 08-29-2011, 08:21 PM

The Supremes dissolved 34 years ago and it seems there are fans who are still in pain that their popularity faded and the groupd faded away. Why do some fans have such a seeming emotional investment in the group's popularity, sales figures, chart positions and radio airplay all these years later? At this point, much of their music is out there to hear or buy or download, or perhaps you've held on to the old albums for all these years. The question for 2011 is do you still enjoy the same songs and albums that you enjoyed when they first came out or when you first heard them? I would hope the songs and albums you like are because you like the work, not because of how well it did or didn't on the sales charts as it's a shallow and adolescent reason to like a song or album.

But if we must do another post mortem of the demise of the Supremes, there were many things that led to their demise and the groundwork for their demise was laid back to the mid 60's when they were riding high. The commercial failure of the Touch single was just one brick in a large edifice.