Gordy may have tore t heart out of t supremes as u say and gave diana the key to to open t door wide open and she ran with it.
They weren't no damned family to Flo. Berry Gordy despised her and his girlfriend would pour gasoline on that fire. They [[Motown Management) use to accuse Gladys Knight of "poisoning" their artists because she would hip them to what they should have been receiving from the company. Things like annual audits etc. Well, Florence was a young woman that just loved to sing. She, like all the rest of them believed Mr. Gordy when he would tell them "don't you worry your pretty little head about business.....I will always take care of you." She was told for several years that money they were making from million sellers and all of those live concerts, tv appearances, etc etc was being invested for her in "stocks and bonds". She got $225.00 a week allowance once they became hit makers. When she/they want to purchase a home, they had to go to Motown to have the funds approved and released! Florence was not a business woman. She was a high school graduate [[which has been debated) from a poor family in the ghetto. She didn't know anything about contracts etc. None of them did!
It's nice that people still have feelings for Florence and her children but she gave up all rights 40 years ago and then attempted litigation over whether that could be challenged; after that Motown was out of it. And now all the ownership of what Diana Ross and/or the Supremes recorded is with some large conglomerate who could care less about any artists and few of the owners would know the name Florence Ballard.
If there is a nice moral and warm side to this, it is that at least Diana Ross and Berry Gordy provided some support to Florence and her family; and it appears that Florence's children have some kind of friendly relationship with Diana Ross and Mary Wilson.
Hi Marv. Not to digress from the seriousness of your posting, I just listened to TomPetty [[RIP) explaining how he was ripped off based on his contract. But Flo didn’t have a chance in hell. Berry knew what he was doing. Of course the argument is if it wasn't for Berry, these people would never had the opportunity to sing.
A class action suit might have Forced the books open to see what was going on. If the plaintiffs won that might have set some precedence for other crooked record companies. Back in the 80’s I remember Mary was asked what advice she would give wanna be performers- get a business education!
Right, and to this very day music artists from the 50s, 60s, 70s etc., are still fighting to get paid! Not so much from the record companies [[many of which has folded or gone out of business), but from a number of sources that still play and make money off of their work. I wonder now if the Music Modernization Act will be of benefit to the Florence Ballard Estate since it has nothing to do with any royalties agreement she signed with Motown Records.
Here is a report on Flo's daughters from local Detroit news in 1994:
and in 2007, things do not look like that had gotten better:
I'm so tired of that narrative too.
Florence did NOT, and I repeat, did NOT live nor die in poverty. Besides from losing her home, she always had homes to go due to her large family [[she moved in with Maxine for a time). Most impoverished folks can't afford welfare like she could.
That said, after she got her head together in late 1974, she began to put her house [[literally) in order and was set to make a living as a solo artist when she suddenly died. I just wish the media stopped saying "poverty".
If anyone was impoverished at the end of their life, it was Judy Garland. She literally had no money but you don't see anyone saying "Judy Garland died in poverty". No let's call a black singer who rose to international fame as one of the members of one of the most successful vocal groups in history impoverished because it fits the media narrative.
GTFOH! And the surviving Chapman sisters ain't living in poverty either.
I agree with you that the nice thing for Barry Gordy to do, since he made more money off of the Supremes than even the supreme did by far, would be to help Florence his girls out in some fashion. I think paying for her funeral was more of an insult than anything. If he had paid for her funeral and looked out for her children financially even in a small way that would’ve been different.
No one has the legal right to deny another person’s experience from happening, so berry Gordy could never keep diana ross from saying she was a supreme if she left the group under unfriendly circumstances… Unless she agreed to do that, like Florence did, in exchange no one has the legal right to deny another person‘s experience from happening, so berry Gordy could never keep diana ross from saying she was a supreme if she left the group under unfriendly circumstances… Unless she agreed to do that, like Florence dead, in exchange for monetary gain. Florence didn’t have to agree to that, her attorney agreed to it on her behalf because her attorney didn’t care What happened to her after he rob deer blind…… But unfortunately, this is because of the poor decision making that surround and Florence upon her departure of the Supremes and none of that is the fault of Motown records or a berry Gordy, 100% of her raw deal is because of who she chose has her legal representative and what she agreed to. And you are correct in that every nickel of royalties saved went directly into Barry Gordy‘s pocket, minus the environment for consideration of no future royalties…… Which ultimately Florence never received…… Which is not the fault of Barry Gordy.
as far as royalties on Motown recordings go after the sale of the company, I am as far from an attorney or someone can be but I do a fair amount of reading and sniffing into recording contracts and music industry contacts because it interests me and from my Laymans knowledge, Barry Gordy would not receive royalties on any Motown record unless he was personally involved with the writing or production or owning the rights to the music…… However if this song was written by Stevie Wonder and produced by Stevie Wonder and the music was not under the control of Barry Gordy or Motown, then he would receive no royalty whatsoever on that track … That only the profits from the manufacture and sale of that track.
No you are the BS artist. Lisa Chapman has worked at an automotive company for the past 5 years and isnt on no Government assistance and Michelle is working and Nicole is doing just fine. They wouldnt be happy about you trashing Aunt Diane and saying theyve been living on assistance.
It's nice to hear that the ladies have made lives for themselves, Ms. Roberta. Not everyone is born to be, or should be, a star. And as we see from Lisa Marie Presley [[just one example) an offspring living off of royalties does not always equal a happy or productive life. If one chooses to point fingers, as I have stated before: why doesn't the other businesswoman and world superstar ex: Supreme give jobs to the ladies if they need assistance? It would be interesting to hear a logical reply to that from ... some quarters. Be well, my friend!
Money doesnt buy happiness [[Michael Jackson found that out) but its nice to earn and have. Lisa works with my cousin in Highland Park. Michigan and is a real nice lady and a hard worker but that doesnt fit into the bitter ones plan of making Flo and her family victims of Gordy and Ross and Wilson and Motown.
The Chapmans are doing great. Florence and Tommy would be proud of them right now.
RIGHT?! And the polluters here never realize how they devalue lives of honorable people such as the Ballard-Chapman ladies who indeed seem to have built good lives for themselves. That's the story of Florence Ballard that should be told, the one of strength and self-determination evidenced by her now-adult children.
Martha signed away her royalties and then got them back!
Yes she did. Now, with this "Music Modernization Act" that's been enacted into law, I can't see why Florence's children cannot receive royalties from music downloading services and other music distribution outlets. All of Florence's recordings with the Supremes and solo were made before 1972 and this Act has nothing to do with Motown or her separation of them.
Hi Marv, Actually Martha rec a nice settlement. I can’t remember her lawyers name, but he is from Detroit.
Luke on this one occasion when she was meeting with her lawyer in our building she had on this red leather suit and looked so fine.
She was always so nice and made it a point to not snub her fans. There is something very spiritual about her.
If Martha is earning that, then I hate to hear how much Annette, Rosalind, Betty and Lois are getting paid.
And do you know how much she's earning?
I didn't even say I believed Rob. I asked him was that true lol
You're mad that you assume three black women, the offspring of the founder of the Supremes, is on welfare and that assumption backfired?
I wasn't saying Martha was only earning that much, Rob did. Ask him lol
Do you recall how much? I know they say a six figure sum but they never disclose it. I assume she makes a nice buck from Motown every year since then.
I know Gladys Knight continues to get royalty paychecks off her Motown hits to this day [[she said so in one of her docs, forget it was Behind the Music or her A&E Biography).
I don't know people's personal financial business and I am smart enough to know that no one else here does either! I further know that you cannot believe the net worth of celebrities that somehow get published online. If that info were true, accurate and available to the public, then Congress would not be going through all the trouble of getting Donald Trump's tax returns.
I didn't assume anything about the Chapman sisters being on welfare......they said it themselves!
I cannot argue anymore with a child. Take care.
Florence Ballard's renedition of "Oh Holy
Night" is beautiful. I believe that if underground recordings of Flo's singing, during the interval
of time, between her recording contracts, were
to be discovered, they could be released as an album-with royalties given to her children.
1. Have Flo's children ever signed away literary rights for the family authorized biography of
Florence Ballard?
2.After Florence left The Supremes, much has been written about the minimal contact maintained by Mary Wilson and Diana Ross. How much contact existed between them and Florence Ballard? Did Berry Gordy limit contact?
3. I think Diana Ross and The Supremes were overworked,which had an effect on their interpersonal relationships. Any thoughts on this?
4.Diana Ross' request for her private dressing room seems to be to find some peace during
this hectic working period.Should Mary and Florence also had their own private dressing
room?
5.In the movie "Mahogany" Tracey Chambers'
seamstress is named, "Aunt Flo". Coincidence?
From sources I have been told that Berry was the one that gave Flo the money for her home in the 70s, as a last part of her settlement. And the trust was funded by Motown and Diana was the "spokesperson" so to speak, like she was for the Jackson 5. Also Mary stated in an interview right after Flo's death that Motown gave Tommy a job to provide for the kids, so Berry may have made some subtle attempts to assist. Im sure if the ladies had shown some attempts on their own to have a better life they would have received more help. Diana offered them all a college education, they all turned it down
Though Florence Ballard signed away her rights to use Florence Ballard, formerly of
The Supremes, as a personal marketing tool,was she ever compensated for her marketing expertise in choosing such a great name for a female group? The Supremes vs The Beatles? One name is royalty while the other name is an insect! Ha! Ha!
I wish Gladys Knight had advised Florence Ballard on legal matters.
Gladys knew her worth and which train to take to the bank.
Too bad, she walked into a casino.
You know, Gladys Knight did try to help. By the time Florence Ballard was fired from the Supremes, her name was very famous [[not as much as it is today) she could have gotten further with the right people behind her. I believe that certain things happened behind the scenes to derail her recording career and contract with ABC Records.
Last edited by marv2; 12-08-2019 at 04:12 PM.
1.) No idea. I think them writing an autobiography on their mother could be interesting though they were just babies when she died [[Nicole and Michelle, the twins, being around 8, and Lisa being 3/4-ish) but they could've saved details from their relatives and make it worthwhile. Don't know about now since Lurlee, most of the Ballard siblings and their father [[who died just five years after Flo) are now deceased.
2.) I don't think Berry limited contact but who the heck knows? Florence didn't see neither of the Supremes for years and didn't want to. It was only around 1974 that she hesitantly agreed to get onstage with Mary, Cindy [[who she initially had disdain for when there were talks of her replacing her) and Scherrie at Disneyland but even then, Florence was still struggling with her alcoholism and depression. Plus Flo's mood swings made her suspicious about any calls coming from Motown or Diana. They began patching things up [[Mary & Diana) around 1975. Flo told Peter Benjaminson that Diana called her and they talked like nothing had happened before the Supremes became big time and since both were young mothers [[I think Chudney had yet to be born when Diana and Flo talked to each other), they probably talked about parenting among other things).
3.) I definitely agree. Save for the Jackson 5, Four Tops and Temptations, I've never seen an act more overworked at Motown than Diana, Mary & Flo. Who knows how Mary was really feeling during the heyday [[she seemed to be more like "besides from Motown pushing Diane away from us, it was lovely blah blah blah"), but Flo struggled with it and openly told Berry and the girls how she hated it, and Diana had a double whammy, being "the boss' girl" and singing lead on virtually 95% of their material. She collapsed onstage a few months before the Vegas split and stress and work caused her to have bad eating habits [[she has claimed she was probably suffering from anorexia nervosa). We know Diana LOVED being a star but she paid a very heavy price as we all know now.
4.) That might've been it. Diana is a very complex woman. I can't see her having one side, neither could I do that to Mary and Flo. These three were totally complex human beings who came together, not from sisterhood, but from wanting the same goal: to sing and be a star. I don't think they all necessarily wanted to be famous but they clearly wanted to be stars and after a while, they no longer had the same goals and were growing up [[remember, they were only 14 and 15 years old when they formed the Primettes; by the time you reach your early 20s, you're not gonna have the same goals, no one does. Not too many acts stay together. Ego was always gonna be a problem and they all had ego but Diana's ambitious streak eclipsed Mary's and Flo's).
Florence often talked about how after they found fame, they were forced to split time apart anyway, she claimed each member had their own hotel room and neither of them would see each other until it was time to get ready for the show, as she said, "it seems that we were splitting up in that matter". After 1965, there started to not be that much camaraderie especially after Diana's star turn that year.
5.) Could've been a coincidence. I don't make much of that lol
Fame's a beast. RIP Flo.
Last edited by midnightman; 12-08-2019 at 03:50 PM.
I know Gladys wishes she hadn't decided to play in the casinos, that can be as addicting as drugs: gambling your life away is what I called it. I guess it was that deep that she became a Mormon later on... IDK. But back in the '60s and '70s, few Motown acts were managing their money. Only Gladys Knight & the Pips did, that might've been a reason Gladys felt the group were outsiders there despite their reputation as one of its best-selling acts in the late '60s and early '70s.
Bookmarks