No need to feel deceived. This is the internet, where everyone and their mother claims to be in the know about something. And for as long as I've been lurking, reading posts in this group [[for a couple years now), Soulful Detroit is full of people who will bet their lives that they know what they are talking about when it comes to Motowners [[especially certain members of the Supremes) and their private and business lives. Some of them may tell some truths, some of them most certainly are lying [[or uttering wishful thinking). One of the prerequisites I placed on myself before officially joining was to be certain to take "inside information" displayed here with a grain of salt and to view some of the so called "inside information" as nothing more than mindless entertainment. Because face it: people lie. It is what it is.
I do think it will eventually get an official release. Not sure when though. That would be up to Diana who owns the masters. It was a strange move by Diana to record this album when she did, and i think it was the correct decision to can the project when they did. RCA wanted a more contemporary album at that particular time but i would love to hear it now.
Calm down people, despite the fact that I appointed some serious incongruencies in regard to Diana Ross/Clive Davis situation in 2004/2005 I do appreciate and totally believe Bluebrock's precious contributions to this thread and this forum.
He is not supposed to know everything or every aspect about Diana's career. And things behind-the-scenes are very multi-dimentional.
I don't think it's fair to judge him that way.
Yes, I can't deny that it seems unlikely to me that Diana had so many offers and opportunities to return to the studio or to sign with Clive, by the simple fact [[and register) of her public statements and everything that we've discussed here before. This is just my personal opinion and I've never put into doubt Bluebrock's affirmations. I will repeat: I trust him completely and don't expect him to know everything.
Last edited by Nitro2015; 04-05-2017 at 02:11 PM.
A floodgate of concerns, not just one. This one issue has opened a can of worms. Please, I do not want to offend anyone. I can't shake this, and my gut is telling me something not very nice. My final word.
Unless Diana Ross is your family or personal friend, you shouldn't take anything said about her personally. There are actually people in this forum who would love for you to take it personal when it comes to her. They get off on the reactions. Lol Don't feel foolish, just jump into all of these great threads, give your two cents, take it all in, and use your common sense to decipher what's real and what's fake.
"It was a strange move" should be the title of a book specifically devoted to Diana's RCA years Bluebrock. IMO she made two barely functional albums there. And while she released a couple of great cuts from 1981-1985, her album choices were ridiculous for someone of her talents and legendary standing. It's quite possible that the unreleased album might just end up being the best effort of the bunch.
I quite agree. Her first 3 albums were average at very best, but i thought she was just finding her feet when the relationship soured. Maybe this album is something special. Her singing on it appears to be more committed which would make you feel she believed in the songs, unlike the workmanlike performances of some of the duds on those early albums.
I would also like to add, in case there was some confusion, that I am not asserting that Bluebrock is lying about anything. I don't know him outside of this forum, so I can't say one way or the other. What I do know is that he's not the only one who posts around here claiming to know stuff. If I'm going to call Bluebrock an out and out liar, then I'm calling everyone else that too. But as a rule I never blindly believe anything anyone says on the internet unless they can back it up with tangible proof. Other than that it is hearsay and a lot of conjecture, and that's fine because it does give us a chance to rattle off our opinions about whatever has been presented and makes for good "conversation"...when people remain mature and sane.
Nitro, in response to your issue about Diana's complaints in contrast to Bluebrock's information about Clive, I will point out to you to remember who we're talking about here: Diana Ross. Lol Clearly throughout her career she has demonstrated that she's not always the most reasonable person. [[Again, check out her RCA albums. LOL) It would not surprise me in the least to find out that Clive was offering Diana a contract and she rebuffed the offer or offers. For one, she is said to be a complete control freak. Clive Davis is not just an executive but one who knows that he knows what he is doing. I don't find it hard to believe that Diana would not want to work for someone she couldn't control. Add to that if Clive was coming to the table with these American songbook ideas and Diana totally not wanting to do that [[even though that's what she ultimately ended up doing anyway), she wouldn't sign that contract. Add to that the fact that half truths and flat out lies are told in the business ALL THE TIME, I can see where it's possible that she had the offers from Clive and yet spun a narrative that no one wanted her. Maybe she hoped more offers would pour in after these kinds of declaratory statements from record companies willing to bend over backwards to have a star of her caliber on the roster, and maybe affording her the chance to do whatever she wanted, creatively speaking. And then she got her feelings hurt when it didn't work. Those are my possible scenarios. Lol
Worse decision she made was producing herself. Then she's doing stuff with Darryl Hall and the Bee Gees [[although "Swept Away" was great). At least two of those early albums should have been produced by Lionel Richie. She should have put her big girl panties on and gone back into the studio with Masser. I know reactions are mixed when it comes to what Luther did with Dionne [[I like most of it), but he and Aretha had a great thing going. The worse album of the RCA bunch was that bs Red Hot Rhythm and Blues. There was nothing red hot and very little R&B on it. She should have let Luther have a crack at the entire project. She was trying so hard to be relevant to the kids that she was releasing crap, instead of looking at her peers [[Gladys Knight, Patti Labelle, Aretha Franklin) who were having hits because they were staying somewhat true to who they have always been and doing music that grown folks AND kids could get into. Some folks like to think "Dreamgirl" did Diana's hit making career in. I call bullsh*t. Her hits stopped because her music sucked. No ifs, ands or buts about it.
I don't know Bluebrock personally, but I do feel he is exactly like that.
I appreciate everything he says and it was never my intention to put him in doubt.
Thank you Bluebrock for all your precious insights and gentle responses to our doubts and questions about Diana Ross's career.
This phase in Diana Ross's career really reminds me of what happened twenty years later with Janet Jackson in the 00's.
Both Diana and Janet started a third decade as hit-makers with high profile albums and singles [[Diana's 1980 "diana" and Janet's 2001 "All For You") and both suffered terrible commercial setbacks the following years.
They went from the highest highs to the lowest lows.
Instead of producing high quality music, they tried to stay commercially relevant with younger audiences and by the end of the decade [[Diana in the 80's and Janet in the 00's), their legacies had suffered serious damage in U.S.
Diana and Janet were the biggest of the biggest female popstars at their respective times and both suffered terrible downfalls after some misguided career choices.
Last edited by Nitro2015; 04-05-2017 at 03:49 PM.
I don't want to call anyone a liar in this forum, that is unfair. I however, will not believe anything by an anonymous poster who has no proof or palpable evidence to support his claims, and the information consistently and substantially contradicts the public record, common sense, and standard protocol. Generally when credibility issues present themselves, the burden of proof shifts to the individual under scrutiny and that person clears things up for once and for all and we all move on. This is not happening. If that doesn't happen that cloud of dishonesty will forever hover over them. Character references by anonymous individuals who already have substantial credibility issues is not tangible evidence. Some people will operate on blind faith, others will not. The choice is yours. It is very wrong to anticipate and expect people to operate on blind faith in this day and age and particularly on the internet.
Last edited by mpn1jco; 04-05-2017 at 04:30 PM. Reason: IS
Absolutely agree, except I think Diana's was worst. I can give Janet the benefit of the doubt because the music she was doing wasn't much different than what she had already been doing, it's just that it didn't show any growth and it was clear she was competing with the new girls on the block. With Diana, she was going in a completely different direction, doing stuff she never would have considered [[or been allowed to consider) if she were still under Gordy. Diana sealed her legacy after the Supremes during the entire 70s and early 80s. But her legacy would be even richer if she had followed in the steps of the other ladies I mentioned above.
Diana seems like she's doing very well. Doesn't seem to be slowing down much at all and I love it. Hopefully she'll be like Betty White and Cisely Tyson, in her 90s and still doing it. Seems she's happy with the family life too. And Janet, finally getting her baby after all these years. I hate that their musical legacies have these dark years to them, but we still have tons of great music that I enjoy still today. And I don't rule out something great from either of them in the future.
Hi Roberta. Can you post the link to your online blog, profile, or website. That could help clear this up so people can move on. I know this is always going to linger in the forum. Let's nip it in the bud with facts not editorials. No progress has been made whatsoever. Oh well.. I know why. Goodnight to all.
Last edited by endlesslove; 04-05-2017 at 09:42 PM.
we are all guests here On Ralphs forum we need to respect that.
Back on topic. I don't expect a new album from Ross. If anyone gets news otherwise hopefully they will post it here.
it would be interesting if the recordings Diana worked on at her home studio in the early -mid 1970s [[which apparently Gordy deemed were not up to proffessional quality) could be remixed,rebooted with existing vocal tracks...
Mpn1co - thats all i know..she built a studio in her home,worked on stuff then played it to Berry who said it wasnt up to scratch..i believe its in the notes at the end of Taraborelli's book last book on her...
I respectfully completely disagree. Thanks.
Anyone actively or on the fringe of the entertainment industry and is being courted by major publishers for large sums would at the minimum have a Facebook site or an online profile - because he is CONNECTED. Players in the entertainment industry have contributed to this forum in the past and have not done so anonymously. His information could be posted and put an end to the fraud claims once and for all. This is not going to happen and people can draw their own conclusions as to why. I certainly have. Validation by a controversial anonymous poster is not going to resolve the issue. This poster acting as a character witness couldn't be more damaging in some people's opinion.
THere is one person who can resolve this but he is not. I think it best for all to move on.
Last edited by mpn1jco; 04-07-2017 at 11:38 AM.
I recently watched her bait people to saying things that would get them banned. I think that is just horrible. It looks to me like she is a stalker too. I lurked in the forum because I cannot condone that type of behavior by her or other members.
Last edited by endlesslove; 04-07-2017 at 01:24 PM.
When Diana Ross went to RCA for a reported $20million, this was a coup. RCA was the dumbest major label and that's saying something. All their product came back as returns three months later, but, too late, they'd already shipped enough to 'earn' gold record status and that's all the stockholders cared about. Occasionally they got lucky with a hot act, but the important thing here is that the label didn't need to make money in the 1970s, just like Columbia didn't in the 1960s. They were part of much larger corporations. In the 1970s, these big labels kept buying up other ones to, again, impress the stockholders, but a roster of 100 stiff acts wasn't about to improve what had been a roster of 50 stiffs. We used to call it STOCKMARKET SHOWBIZ. Don't forget, until the recession of 1978, the biz was 100% returns on both the wholesale and retail levels. Therefore, any corporate outfit's record division would survive by the code of SHIPPING AND BILLING. They'd have returns coming back and would have to make good on equivalent project, PLUS ship and bill a greater amount than they'd done in the same quarter of the previous year. Eventually they'd get lucky, but they'd muddle on nonetheless. Another pitfall of STOCKMARKET SHOWBIZ was a hot act trying to up their payment to re-sign with their existing label, while taking offers from the competing labels. This usually proved dismal, as the Diana Ross deal illustrated, because the deep-pocket corporate labels would be paying for the reputation of the artist's past work. If they'd known anything about the music biz, they'd have sought out innovative artists. So back in 1980, RCA told its stockholders, who cared more about US Defense Dept contracts than any music, "Hey, we're about to sign Diana Ross." Applause. That's the way it worked.
When Ms Ross signed with RCA, her current album at that time was the biggest of her career, which was her "diana" album. Contrary to what you are saying, she was still a heavy hitter and I would argue, very much an innovative artist. She went in with Russ Terrana to remix the diana album before it was released and it became less disco and more rock dance, which in my opinion, was something very ground breaking for her and for Motown.
Jazzyandy....Wow! Great information, great insight into how things really worked. Thank you and welcome to Soulful Detroit! Please post more.
Bookmarks