Rise and Fall of SUGARHILL RECORDS

[milven]

There was a two page story about the tax woes and legacy of the Sugar Hill hip-hop empire. I found it an interesting read and thought some SDF members may also find interest in it. Found the story on line.
Here is the link.
http://www.northjersey.com/arts_ente...k_history.html

[soulster]

Lesson: pay your artists, don't live beyond your means, and stay away from the mob.

[blueskies]

Wasn't into the rap thing....but, sure liked "Pillow Talk".

[soulster]

I was a senior in high school in 1979 when "Rappers Delight" hit. It was wildly popular. The pastime used to be trying to rap the entire fifteen or so minutes of the record. Sugarhill Records had the best rap records from 1979-1982.

[splanky]

Thanks for posting that, miliven, I enjoyed reading it. Of course a true history of the rise and
fall of Sugarhill records would require more material and still be only a chapter in the larger
story of Sylvia Robinson.Which is why as I said before, I am hoping that movie gets made in
my lifetime. She was so much more than "Pillow Talk"....

[zebop]

I was a senior in high school in 1979 when "Rappers Delight" hit. It was wildly popular. The pastime used to be trying to rap the entire fifteen or so minutes of the record. Sugarhill Records had the best rap records from 1979-1982.

They had nice compilations during that era called Street Beat. I had the first one, it wasn't a sonic marvel but it had great song selection.

[soulster]

They had nice compilations during that era called Street Beat. I had the first one, it wasn't a sonic marvel but it had great song selection.

I never saw any of them. I just remember that it seemed rap, as we first knew it, was unraveling in the mid-80s when Sugarhill stopped producing records. Grandmaster Melle Mel [[He legally couldn't call himself "Flash" anymore) went to Elektra Records, and the The 8th Wonder and Sugarhill Gang were no more. A lot of indie labels sprung up during this time but the raps got more risque and streetwise. Then we got The Beastie Boys and Run D-M-C, and they fused their sound with rock elements., and that started the rise of the gangsta and x-trated rap.

[Jerry Oz]

Melle Mel and Flash were not the same person. But the point is the same; the group was no longer Grandmaster Flash and The Furious Five, having to become Grandmaster Melle Mel and the Furious Five in latter years.

[splanky]

Soulster, you'd be better off googling and checking histories on youtube because your
mid west isolation from black communities is really showing in the fact you don't shit
about the history of hip hop and rap culture, okay? I was transitioning between New York
and South Carolina and I remember seeing acts who later became big, like Kurtis Blow
FOR FREE. Though she's now known as Angie Stone I remember when she was in a group
called Sequence and when she was living in the projects in Columbia, SC and called herself
Angie B. Before the nationwide rise of the genre known as gangta rap we had lyrical
thuggery from cats like Schooly D whose PSK [[Park Side Killers) was an underground cult
classic, WITHOUT radio play...A lot of us funkers watched the developed of the genre closely
especially because they were using our music [[James Brown, Parliament Funkadelic, etc) to
create their output....

[glencro]

Soulster, you'd be better off googling and checking histories on youtube because your
mid west isolation from black communities is really showing in the fact you don't shit
about the history of hip hop and rap culture, okay? I was transitioning between New York
and South Carolina and I remember seeing acts who later became big, like Kurtis Blow
FOR FREE. Though she's now known as Angie Stone I remember when she was in a group
called Sequence and when she was living in the projects in Columbia, SC and called herself
Angie B. Before the nationwide rise of the genre known as gangta rap we had lyrical
thuggery from cats like Schooly D whose PSK [[Park Side Killers) was an underground cult
classic, WITHOUT radio play...A lot of us funkers watched the developed of the genre closely
especially because they were using our music [[James Brown, Parliament Funkadelic, etc) to
create their output....

Now that's a moment in black history lol..It was great to actually be able to be around when the genre actually started and developed. Funny thing, I remember around the time I was 36 years old [[46 now) there was an article about Angie Stone and her age was listed as 36. I was in 8th or 9th grade when Sequence came on the scene with "Funk You Up" and I'm thinking how the heck are we the same ago now [[that's show biz for you lol)

[Ndugu]

Wow, apparently you can rent a camel in New Jersey.

Had no idea Morris Levy was involved in this. His investment sure paid off.

[Jerry Oz]

I remember reading a book about Mo Levy and the mob being involved with cut-out record distribution. They are not the people that you want to find yourself involved with when it comes to money. After that, every time I saw his name, I paused to consider what came along with the association.

[soulster]

Wow, apparently you can rent a camel in New Jersey.

Had no idea Morris Levy was involved in this. His investment sure paid off.

Old news, actually. In 1979, when Nile Rodgers and Bernard Edwards heard "Rapper's Delight" and wanted to sue the Robinsons for ripping off "Good Times" and not giving them songwriting credit, they were "encouraged" to reconsider by some scary guys who represented Sugarhill Records.

As some of you may know, Morris Levy was the same guy who headed up Roulette Records back in the 60s and early 70s. Tommy James only recently felt comfortable talking about his situation with that record label because they are all dead now.

It has been widely rumored that MCA Records in the 80s had links to the mob as well. This is why the record labels are all controlled by the bean counters now. They want to ensure that there is no involvement with the mob, and don't need anymore fed investigations.

[zebop]

I never saw any of them. I just remember that it seemed rap, as we first knew it, was unraveling in the mid-80s when Sugarhill stopped producing records. Grandmaster Melle Mel [[He legally couldn't call himself "Flash" anymore) went to Elektra Records, and the The 8th Wonder and Sugarhill Gang were no more. A lot of indie labels sprung up during this time but the raps got more risque and streetwise. Then we got The Beastie Boys and Run D-M-C, and they fused their sound with rock elements., and that started the rise of the gangsta and x-trated rap.

Maybe the record label strife helped to put an end to that sound. Come to think of it, it ended abruptly, yep I think it was some mix of Run D-M-C and the Beastie Boys that took the wind out of Sugarhill's kind of rap.

I was doing some research on the Wikipedia and it said that all of Grandmaster Flash's Elektra Lp's went gold?

Grandmaster Melle Mel and the Furious Five did two albums in 1984 and 1985. Melle Mel went back to Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five for 1988's On the Strength. It's all totally confusing. Sugarhill itself closed in 1986 so they really ended on a blah.

[Jerry Oz]

Between Tommy Boy Records and Def Jam, hip hop went in a different direction than Sugar Hill Records was able to follow. Using a house band instead of programming sequencers, beat boxes, and synthesizers aged their sound. Hip hop took on more of an edge and attitude that made Sugar Hill sound more like pop music. Consider the sparse music behind Run DMC's "It's Like That" [[which changed the game) and LL Cool J's [["I Can't Live Without My Radio") and you see where the beat became the star, not the band. Flash scored with "The Message" on the strength of the hook and bold choice to put a social theme to a rap song, but the hits were far and few in between.

[roger]

I was doing some research on the Wikipedia and it said that all of Grandmaster Flash's Elektra Lp's went gold?

This sounds like wishful thinking on the part of whoever edited that Wikipedia page. Joel Whitburn's "Billboard" chart books have NONE of them going gold and the following chart positions.

"They Said It Couldn't Be Done" R&B #35 [[26 weeks on the chart) Pop #201
"The Source" R&B #27 [[13 weeks on the chart) Pop #145 [[6 weeks on the chart)
"Da-Bop-Boom-Bang" R&B #43 [[12 weeks on the chart) Pop #197 [[1 week on the chart)
"On The Strength" R&B no entry Pop #189 [[3 weeks on the chart)

Roger

[soulster]

Between Tommy Boy Records and Def Jam, hip hop went in a different direction than Sugar Hill Records was able to follow. Using a house band instead of programming sequencers, beat boxes, and synthesizers aged their sound. Hip hop took on more of an edge and attitude that made Sugar Hill sound more like pop music. Consider the sparse music behind Run DMC's "It's Like That" [[which changed the game) and LL Cool J's [["I Can't Live Without My Radio") and you see where the beat became the star, not the band. Flash scored with "The Message" on the strength of the hook and bold choice to put a social theme to a rap song, but the hits were far and few in between.

It's also worth noting that around 1985 was the time when the major labels started getting involved with rap. While most did not release rap on their own brands, they did strike distribution deals with the indie labels.

[Jerry Oz]

It's also worth noting that around 1985 was the time when the major labels started getting involved with rap. While most did not release rap on their own brands, they did strike distribution deals with the indie labels.

Yep. Even when they did release them on their labels, they tried to homogenize it. Mercury, for example, stepped in to take hand claps off of Kurtis Blow's "Ego Trip" LP.

[zebop]

This sounds like wishful thinking on the part of whoever edited that Wikipedia page. Joel Whitburn's "Billboard" chart books have NONE of them going gold and the following chart positions.

"They Said It Couldn't Be Done" R&B #35 [[26 weeks on the chart) Pop #201
"The Source" R&B #27 [[13 weeks on the chart) Pop #145 [[6 weeks on the chart)
"Da-Bop-Boom-Bang" R&B #43 [[12 weeks on the chart) Pop #197 [[1 week on the chart)
"On The Strength" R&B no entry Pop #189 [[3 weeks on the chart)

Roger

Thanks Roger, I didn't think I was crazy. It's shameful someone's trying to write fiction about those bricks.

[Jerry Oz]

Thanks Roger, I didn't think I was crazy. It's shameful someone's trying to write fiction about those bricks.

Don't trust anything that you read from Wikipedia unless you click the cited links first. Even then, make sure the citation comes from a reputable source.

[soulster]

Yep. Even when they did release them on their labels, they tried to homogenize it. Mercury, for example, stepped in to take hand claps off of Kurtis Blow's "Ego Trip" LP.

What's the story on that? Mercury, by that time, was part of Polygram, a Dutch owned company, should be given credit for at least being a major that released rap music early on. They released Kurtis Blow's "Christmas Rappin'" in 1979.

[soulster]

Don't trust anything that you read from Wikipedia unless you click the cited links first. Even then, make sure the citation comes from a reputable source.

You should go in and correct the information. Anyone can, you know.