Motown blunders

[Ngroove]

Attachment 4969
I thought that J.J. Barnes WAS signed to Motown as an artist. They just failed to give him A-level material, and failed to release any of his recordings.

Letting Mary Wells, Kim Weston, The Isley Brothers, Gladys Knight and The Pips, Carolyn Crawford get away. Not giving Marv Johnson better material. Not pushing The Monitors and Spinners. Not trying very hard to break into the Blues, Jazz and Gospel markets.

I'll add Fantastic Four and Chuck Jackson to your list under both categories, letting go and not given great material, especially considering both were established soul names before they joined in the first place.

[copley]

With Florence



With Cindy

[marybrewster]

copley-

That's a fantastic cover with Cindy! Thanks for sharing! Is that a "real" cover or a mock-up?

I didn't realize that famous photo session had taken place by the time this was released.....

[Ngroove]

The 1973 Gladys Knight & the Pips Anthology – I know, it’s probably room-wise, but representation-wise, the Pips should be just as important as Gladys – can’t have one without the other complimenting each other. But instead, the Pips are about a third of the size of her, or distanced pretty far away, from the back of her.

[motownjohnny]

"Friendship Train", released as the "B" side of "Papa Was A Rolling Stone" by The Undisputed Truth [[Gordy 7117) is annotated on the single as being taken from the album "Face To Face With The Truth" G959L, yet it isn't included as a track on that album.

[kenneth]

"Friendship Train", released as the "B" side of "Papa Was A Rolling Stone" by The Undisputed Truth [[Gordy 7117) is annotated on the single as being taken from the album "Face To Face With The Truth" G959L, yet it isn't included as a track on that album.

Actually, it is, as a medley combined with "Unite the World" [[which is more id'd by its African name that I can't spell). I just remember this album well because it was one I played constantly when it came out. Their best, IMHO.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Face_to_Face_With_the_Truth

[copley]

copley-

That's a fantastic cover with Cindy! Thanks for sharing! Is that a "real" cover or a mock-up?

I didn't realize that famous photo session had taken place by the time this was released.....

Mary, it's for real. I found it a car boot sale years ago.

[kenneth]

Mary, it's for real. I found it a car boot sale years ago.

That's the cover I have as well, but honestly, I never realized Flo was on the cover. Is it Flo in the lower center photo? Is she in any others?

I don't think the front cover was ever altered in the U.S. At least I've never seen a different cover photo. Was there one?

[reese]

The 1973 Gladys Knight & the Pips Anthology – I know, it’s probably room-wise, but representation-wise, the Pips should be just as important as Gladys – can’t have one without the other complimenting each other. But instead, the Pips are about a third of the size of her, or distanced pretty far away, from the back of her.

I think all of the ANTHOLOGYs are this way when it came to groups who had a lead singer receiving separate billing. Except for Jr. Walker and the All Stars' set, where the All-Stars aren't shown at all.

[reese]

That's the cover I have as well, but honestly, I never realized Flo was on the cover. Is it Flo in the lower center photo? Is she in any others?

I don't think the front cover was ever altered in the U.S. At least I've never seen a different cover photo. Was there one?

Flo isn't on the cover of the REFLECTIONS album pictured here. There are some photos in the montage that originally included Flo, like those from the Orient, but she was cut out.

[kenneth]

Flo isn't on the cover of the REFLECTIONS album pictured here. There are some photos in the montage that originally included Flo, like those from the Orient, but she was cut out.

Okay, thanks for the clarification. I was hoping I had a collectors' item!

[copley]

I always thought that it was Flo in the little photo to the right of the girls on bikes!

[kenneth]

I always thought that it was Flo in the little photo to the right of the girls on bikes!

It really does look like her. I'll have to dig out my copy and get a closer look. I'm sure Reese is right. Motown wouldn't have let that cover stay out there so long if Flo was on it.

[ejluther]

Big pic of REFLECTIONS cover here - I'm quite sure that's Diana next to Mary in that pic in question. And Flo may be right behind Mary as she's driving the bike taxi but you can't see that's person's face:
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-WIonCW_WnX...-reflec_03.jpg

[copley]

Now that looks so much clearer, it is Flo. I always thought that it was

[jeff9nyc]

i've read that A Go Go was originally either planned or maybe some first runs with green type. then changed to blue.

It was. I have it with green [[and with blue). I think that was just a design change more than a blunder...kind of like the 2 different backs The Supremes Sing Rogers and Hart, and The Supremes at the Copa. I have to say, I like the green type much better!

[floyjoy678]

When the "Reflections" album was in it's early stages of promotion Flo was in a few of the pictures on the album cover. When the album was finally released it was all Diana, Mary and Cindy. I've seen the original "Reflections" album cover with Flo somewhere years ago, it may have been the Flo Ballard yahoo group.

[jeff9nyc]

Good question; I happen to have both copies.

I have both back covers of Supremes at the Copa too...though I hardly think we're sitting on a goldmine! I also have the Sam Cooke European cover with the shot that was used on There's a Place For Us. I'd love to have a copy of the other back cover of Rogers and Hart. I only have the one with their arms up.

[jeff9nyc]

I suppose this isn't really a blunder, but I was listening to the Supremes version of 'these boots are made for walking' today, and it sounded for all the world as though, in addition to the girls and the musicians in Studio A [[presumably), there is also a very noisy typist!

I have to agree. I never got that noise! It guess it was her boot?! I think the biggest blunder with this song was not having Florence do it! It was clearly song she would have worked!

[ejluther]

Now that looks so much clearer, it is Flo. I always thought that it was

Well, I still vote that's it's Diana [[albeit with an uncharacteristic expression on her face) - any one else want to weigh in? I know it's not important but it can still be fun...

[jobeterob]

I can't see it well enough or big enough..........but what I'm seeing looks like Diana to me.

[kenneth]

Now that looks so much clearer, it is Flo. I always thought that it was

It certainly looks like her. If it's Ross, it's a very uncharacteristic pose and expression. I'm going to still try to dig up my copy and look at it again. Seems to be no question about it now that we see it blown up but the real thing might reveal details that the repro doesn't.

[skooldem1]

It basically breaks down to gay guys and drag queen liking diana better, and the striaght men liking Mary better because she was the prettiest one. Mary was also sensual, where Diana was not.

Calling Diana Ross fans "gay and drag queens" is an insult and should not be tolerated in this forum.

[nathanj06]

Now that looks so much clearer, it is Flo. I always thought that it was

The bottom left pic is Mary on the bike.

[johnjeb]

The pic of the alleged original cover of the Reflections LP can be found on 45 sleeves from 1968 that show album covers. My copy is blue but I have also seen them in brown and green.

In the small pic it shows 2 group pictures with Florence and one solo pic. The solo pic was removed and replaced with one of Mary as a nun. The pic at the bottom from Sullivan of DMC was previously a pic of DMF with Diana holding a mic and Mary and Flo with hands in the air. That pic was cropped and relocated at 2 o'clock showing only Diana with her hands in the air holding a mic. That replaced a group pic in that spot that had Flo.

That's Mary on the bike. I looked at my album, also I am pretty sure I have that group pic with DMF on bikes somewhere. I think it is in a program booklet from 1967 or from the Fan Club in 1966.

Here is a fuzzy pic of the album cover from the 45 sleeve:

[marv2]

Leaving Detroit was Motown's first major blunder.

[kenneth]

The bottom left pic is Mary on the bike.

I don't know if you're responding in answer to my post, but I wasn't referring to the pic of the girls on the bicycles, but the photo to the right of that with the big oriental looking hats. The closest girl to the bicycle photo looks like it could be Diane, but her expression is not her usual cast and it certainly does look like Florence. I'd be shocked if they scrubbed the original cover [[or mockup before it was printed en masse) and didn't scrub that one if it really was Flo. But I'm still planning to look at my original copy to see if it shows a little better.

So, was that photo with the oriental hats taken actually in Japan? If so, then it couldn't be Florence, could it? They didn't tour there until Cindy was a member, I thought. Weren't there some photos of them having tea at a tea house or something? Browsing the Internet didn't come up with any such photos, but I remember some like that.

[kenneth]

Here is a fuzzy pic of the album cover from the 45 sleeve:

Wow, now if this one is in anyone's collection it would have to be a collector's item!

[johnjeb]

I don't know if you're responding in answer to my post, but I wasn't referring to the pic of the girls on the bicycles, but the photo to the right of that with the big oriental looking hats. The closest girl to the bicycle photo looks like it could be Diane, but her expression is not her usual cast and it certainly does look like Florence. I'd be shocked if they scrubbed the original cover [[or mockup before it was printed en masse) and didn't scrub that one if it really was Flo. But I'm still planning to look at my original copy to see if it shows a little better.

So, was that photo with the oriental hats taken actually in Japan? If so, then it couldn't be Florence, could it? They didn't tour there until Cindy was a member, I thought. Weren't there some photos of them having tea at a tea house or something? Browsing the Internet didn't come up with any such photos, but I remember some like that.

The picture in the hats is Diana on the left, she has her mouth open - possibly singing, and Mary on the right. Florence has been cropped. They toured Japan with Florence in 1966 I believe. I have pictures in either a program booklet or from the Fan Club. There is a pirated video of The Supremes in the Orient - Florence is there.

[kenneth]

The picture in the hats is Diana on the left, she has her mouth open - possibly singing, and Mary on the right. Florence has been cropped. They toured Japan with Florence in 1966 I believe. I have pictures in either a program booklet or from the Fan Club. There is a pirated video of The Supremes in the Orient - Florence is there.

Wow, thanks! You're a wealth of information!

[reese]

If anyone has a copy of the book GIRL GROUPS: THE STORY OF A SOUND by Alan Betrock, the original photo of Diana and Mary with the hats is included. As said above, Flo is also in the photo but was cropped out, as were Berry Gordy and Esther Edwards.

[arrr&bee]

Although not a bad album[the temptations twenty fifth anniversary]for not including[beauty's only skin deep-girl why you wanna make me blue]...if you look closely at marvin and tammi's greatest hits album you'll notice that the picture on the front is spliced together...now this last one is maybe a fashoin misstep,on the album[temptin temptations]they have on black shoes with all white tuxedoes[otis mentions it in the book]!