Church: To go or not to go

[glencro]

Recently spoke with a few people that no longer regularly attend Sunday morning church services. they gave various reasons. I was wondering do you attend church regularly and if not, why not? Also, If so why do you?

[soulster]

I did not come from a religious family, so we did not regularly attend church, not even on holidays. As a child, my sister was the only one in the family who was really a christian, and went to bible study, youth prayer meetings, and other such activities during the week at the local Southern Baptist Church. Part of that was because my mother was raised Episcopal, but did not know anyone in town who was, and she was an ER nurse who worked the graveyard shift. When my parents divorced when I was at a young age, my father was agnostic and died an atheist. Because of my sister's influence, both my mother and I are born-again christian, but I am not orthodox.

Since the mid-70s, we only attend non-denominational churches. My sister is also now non-denominational, and prefers those mega-churches. Her husband is a former Muslim. Now, I do not attend any church and do not identify with christians, and I am anti-religion, and here's why:

Over the last decade or so, I have gotten fed-up with all the phoniness, incredible ignorance, racism, and sexism of christians, especially in the last five years since President Obama was elected into office. Virtually every single one that I run into are anti-science, anti-female, anti-LBGT, anti-poor, and all of the ones I meet are far-right republican. So, it is amazing that my oldest and best friend in the world is an active ordained minister who started his own ministry! The good thing is that he never judges people.

Also, in the odd times that I was invited to a church and I did go, the people there were very unfriendly. It's amazing how so many christians act so un-christian-like.

So, to answer the main question: NO! I do not, and probably never will attend regular church. The last time I did go to one was two years ago. I went with my sister and her husband to a Christmas Eve service with The Winans as the special guests. It was fun, and the paster didn't get political at all. In fact, his sermon was enough to make me want to go back.

The one thing that has really tarnished the Christian brand is the white evangelicals' deep involvement in government politics since the 80s.

[GrtGzu]

I used to sing in the choir, usher, be in "stuff", all of that some 35-40 yrs ago.....Moved back home, took care of parents for 9 yrs, so I couldn't go like I used to....and I can't "sang" soprano no more either, and can't stand too long so goodbye "er-sherr-in"....

Before my mother died, I made a promise to her that I would go back again...And I did...I don't go as regularly - I do a couple Sundays a month and I will only do the 8:00 a.m. service so I can have the rest of the day to myself...I do enjoy listening to the message since our pastor tends to make it relevant to what's going on in the world today as we know it...

Now let me ask which do YOU think is better? Going to church in person, or watching the televangelists?

[glencro]

I do attend regularly. Growing up we were in church on Sunday, Sunday night, bible study, choir rehearsal so I told myself when I turn 18 I WILL NOT be attending anyone's church. As I got older my friends and i fell in love with church and the Detroit gospel scene. So along with skating and hanging out that became a part of our recreation.
After the pastor of the church that I grew up in died and the other elders began to fight over who would be the next pastor, I left and was without a church home for several months. I felt empty and prayed about finding a place that would be a good fit for me. About 10 years ago I found a church that i liked the pastor, his message and his humility; the members and the music. I don't agree with 100% of what comes from the pulpit but I have enough sense to take what is for me and leave what I don't agree on. My mother once told me that "there is no perfect church and if there were, it would become flawed as soon as I joined". It's a place where I feel encouraged when I leave. It's a place where my faith has increased by leaps and bounds just by the testimonies of what I hear that God has done for others, so I know that HE can do it for me. I'm more spiritual than I am religious but it was important for me to have a foundation where I can go and get a spiritual fill up.
Now churches have changed a lot today. I've seen the money hungry, hypocritical, sex driven, bigotted and homophobic pastors. I can understand why many people are discouraged from atttending church. I've once heard someone say that there is no worse hurt than "church hurt". People have given their all only to be kicked to the curve but I found a place that's right for me.

Soulster, didn't quite understand what Obama being elected had to do with churches.

GrtGzu, good question. I like the experience of being actually at church but i do enjoy the television ministries of Joyce Meyers, Joel Olsteen and TD Jakes.

[nysister]

Recently spoke with a few people that no longer regularly attend Sunday morning church services. they gave various reasons. I was wondering do you attend church regularly and if not, why not? Also, If so why do you?

I was raised in the church, and before I became a caretaker for my mom, Iwas a regular churchgoer; singing in the choir. I buried my mom in December and have just started to attend church again but not on a regular basis/ I love being in church because it gives me a peace from a crazy world. The congregation was singing a hymn on Saturday, "I come to the Garden Alone," and it just filled me so that the tears began to fall and I felt such an inner peace that I can't explain. I also enjoy watching live streaming services on the Internet on Sudays. Trinity United in Chicago is one of my favorites. Rev. Moss is always relevant, and Trinity's choir is one of the best. This Palm Sunday, Trinity choir rocked the house with legendary gospel and spiritual songs that brought us over. Whew!!!

[GrtGzu]

Yup, I've seen the "cluster-crap" that can happen within a church..We're on our 2nd pastor since the one who baptized me many moons ago passed away some 15 yrs ago...

You know it was also said that, "the church is the worst place you could ever work for". I think that depends on who you ask..I did it for 4.5 yrs...
I used to work at the National UCC offices here in Cleveland [[know about Trinity UCC - nice church folk there Rev. Yvonne Delk, Rev. Robert Eaddy, et al)...

I guess I like being in church better than watching it on tv - there's just something about the feeling of "comfort" I get while listening to the choir sing, or getting into the "message"....whatever it is, it seems to make my overall mood a lot better than it was before I walked thru the door...

[Jerry Oz]

I grew up attending a Presbyterian church. Somewhere in my mid-teens, Mom let me quit. I guess she didn't see the point in making me go. At 21, I came back and was very involved, even teaching Sunday School for a couple of years. For the first couple of years, the church had no pastor, bringing in guest ministers to speak until the deacon board was pressured to hire somebody. They brought in a very distinguished and experienced minister and told him to just preach and leave the ministering to the longtime members.

He actually agreed to do that, but when he started having parishioners come to him in need of a true minister, he assumed the role of pastor in function, not just title. The deacon board didn't appreciate that. They also didn't like the fact that he wanted the people who worked in the church to do their jobs appropriately. When the choir director came in hung over and the choir made a mistake, it was not beyond him to call him out for it. One day, the director closed up his hymn book, picked up his bible and left in the middle of service!

Well, to wrap this up: The deacon board wanted him to be gone. Most of the congregation did not. They trumped up a lot of allegations and sent them to the Presbytery, which called for an election to see if he should stay or go. The deacons and trustees put the word out and church members who had not attended for years came to vote on a man that they never met. Some came from as far as their homes in California to Ohio for it. Quite a Christian thing to do, eh? Anyway, I was able to shake the dust of that church off of my shoes and find another home that I've attended for the last 20+ years. Never put your faith in a building or people who go there.

[Kamasu_Jr]

God can reach you wherever you are. And as someone once said everybody sitting or standing in church, talking about heaven ain't going there.

[soulster]

Soulster, didn't quite understand what Obama being elected had to do with churches.

Let's put it this way: I live in tea-bagger country. Besides, my worldview is in direct conflict with everything that today's christianity and other faiths stand for.

[Jerry Oz]

It's such a personal issue. I'm amazed at how hypocritical some of the most popular preachers are and at how many of my Christian brothers and sisters aren't the sheep that Christ referenced so much as sheep willing to be fleeced by a smooth voice and a catchy preaching style. In my personal opinion, the devil flourishes from behind the pulpit because people follow preachers instead of God.

And Soulster, don't get me going on the hypocrites that flame Obama because they want to believe that he's a muslim. Even if you have a problem with Rev. Jeremiah Wright, at least Obama had a pastor and a church home. I wonder if Boehner, McConnell, or Rand Paul go to church? And Romney got a pass, even though he's a former minister who thought nothing about obviously lying to win the presidency.

Damn, now I'm worked up...

[soulster]

And Soulster, don't get me going on the hypocrites that flame Obama because they want to believe that he's a muslim.

Oh, they're past that muslim stiff because it wouldn't stik. Now these morons are trying to say he's the antichrist, and talk about revelations. What they conveniently ignore is that their fears don't add up, just like when liberals thought Ronald Regan was the antichrist. Nothing they say matches the scripture. In fact, what they do doesn't follow teachings, either.

Even if you have a problem with Rev. Jeremiah Wright, at least Obama had a pastor and a church home. I wonder if Boehner, McConnell, or Rand Paul go to church? And Romney got a pass, even though he's a former minister who thought nothing about obviously lying to win the presidency.

Romney's a mormon. They are a cult!

Damn, now I'm worked up...

Good!

[glencro]

Over the last decade or so, I have gotten fed-up with all the phoniness, incredible ignorance, racism, and sexism of christians, especially in the last five years since President Obama was elected into office. Virtually every single one that I run into are anti-science, anti-female, anti-LBGT, anti-poor, and all of the ones I meet are far-right republican.
.

Those are church goers and not true christians. There is a difference. I've seen the sexism, hypocrisy, homophobia, etc in the church world but I found a place of worship that fit for me. I know that I'm surrounded by humans who are just as flawed as I am so my focus is not on the people.

[glencro]

God can reach you wherever you are. And as someone once said everybody sitting or standing in church, talking about heaven ain't going there.

You can say that again

[glencro]

I love being in church because it gives me a peace from a crazy world. The congregation was singing a hymn on Saturday, "I come to the Garden Alone," and it just filled me so that the tears began to fall and I felt such an inner peace that I can't explain.

My condolences NYsister. Nothing like hearing one of those songs that touch you right where you are. I jumped in the car this past Sunday running late for church and Andrae Crouche's "Through It All" was on. Wow, that song blessed me on the road.

[soulster]

I know that I'm surrounded by humans who are just as flawed as I am so my focus is not on the people.

That's why I don't go to church: I don't have to deal with people.

A co-worker the other day invited me to her church the other day. I told her I had already gone there and left in the middle of the service because the pastor got political. I told her that I don't go to church to hear someone's politics. She should give up asking me because years ago I once told her I was a liberal christian and she said she had absolutely no concept of what that is. Then she laughed and walked off.

A few months ago, some catholic woman kept inviting me to her bible studies on Wednesday nights. I declined and told her why. She understood. A week later, she came up to me and asked again if I would go and said the ladies there agreed to stop talking about Obama. What does that tell you? Again, I declined.

Two days ago, a woman with three kids invited me to her church. She got my name and said she'd contact me through Facebook. When I told her I rarely, if ever, log into Facebook because of privacy issues with that website, she said she'd get back to me in person about going.

Not all of my church experiences have been negative, but the last straw was when I has an argument with a smug church pastor who is 100% convinced that Obama is a secret muslim. I have so-called christian co-workers who think he is the antichrist. One of them is a mormon. Yeah, I also live in Arizona, the other mormon country.

Now, I have been invited to the Universalist Unitarian church by a friend who is an atheist It is not an atheist church, but one that accepts all faiths or no faith under one roof. That I might go to. I have a friend who is muslim, a friend and an acquainted who are both wiccans, and, no, that is not part of the occult or satanism.

[Jerry Oz]

Paul said to work out your own salvation. Too many people don't want to think about what they believe for fear that they're going to make God angry by being curious. I don't believe that God wants us to have a blind spiritual relationship. I'm fine with Christianity [[I'd better be!) but I'm not fine with religion. One of the things that Marx had right was his understanding of how it worked to manipulate people.

I don't even argue religion and race anymore. Even that new series "The Bible" has a bunch of folks who don't even look Jewish, let alone Middle-Eastern/Semitic, playing the roles. I can't tell you what Christ looked like, but Isaiah said that he had "no form nor comeliness and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him." He also was bold and not afraid to step on toes. Yet he's continually portrayed by attractive men with European features as a milquetoast. Get out of here with that.

[soulster]

[QUOTE=Jerry Oz;156198]

Paul said to work out your own salvation. Too many people don't want to think about what they believe for fear that they're going to make God angry by being curious. I don't believe that God wants us to have a blind spiritual relationship. I'm fine with Christianity [[I'd better be!) but I'm not fine with religion. One of the things that Marx had right was his understanding of how it worked to manipulate people.

That is why religion so dangerous. So many people are easily manipulated, and it's usually out of fear and ignorance.

I don't even argue religion and race anymore. Even that new series "The Bible" has a bunch of folks who don't even look Jewish, let alone Middle-Eastern/Semitic, playing the roles. I can't tell you what Christ looked like, but Isaiah said that he had "no form nor comeliness and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him." He also was bold and not afraid to step on toes. Yet he's continually portrayed by attractive men with European features as a milquetoast. Get out of here with that.

A whole lot of mormons and racists are gonna be mighty upset and scared when they find out he's not white!

[Jerry Oz]

[QUOTE=soulster;156253]

That is why religion so dangerous. So many people are easily manipulated, and it's usually out of fear and ignorance.



A whole lot of mormons and racists are gonna be mighty upset and scared when they find out he's not white!

To be honest, I don't care what color He was or is now. I'm not getting caught in the fact that God made man in His image, so a lot of folks decided to return the favor. Spike Lee made a great point in an interview about this. When the interviewer asked him why he thought it important to reiterate his belief that Christ could not have been white, Lee asked the interviewer if it was important for the slave owners who gave slaves Christianity to believe that he was white. Of course it was; that skin gave them their superiority. To his credit, the interviewer gave him his propers for asking a relevant question.

[imnokid]

I was raised as a Catholic and now consider myself an atheist. Go to this site, read some of the writings, make sure that you use your INTELECT, and perhaps you will see that there is much to question.
http://www.yourgodisimaginary.com

[thomas96]

I don't go regularly, my family was never very religious. Every so often we will attend for holiday services.

[imnokid]

Here is a quick 10 minute video that I ask all who do watch it, to listen to what is being said with an open mind before your anger sets in.
http://tinyurl.com/btxux5c

[soulster]

Science has already proved that many things mentioned in the Bible actually happened - not in the way it says they happened, but in rational, logical ways. In cases, it was never mentioned how these things happened, but they did. The parting of the Red Sea, the death of the first born, Jesus walking on water, locust plagues, Soddom and Gammorah...all of it has perfectly rational, scientific explanations. But, there was no such thing as an immaculate conception. That sperm and egg met. Maybe Joseph and Mary didn't have sex to conceive Jesus, but she was impregnated. Anyone ever hear of artificial insemination?

No, it is not wrong to question and investigate these things. To forbid it is superstitious.

[glencro]

Soulster, why atre all of these people trying to invite you to church? It remind sme of when my brother fell and hurt his leg and refused to go to the doctor to have it checked out.

Jerry Oz, you are right that we do have to know HIM for ourselves. Even though I do attend church regularly, I am far more spiritual than I am religious.

[Jerry Oz]

Glencro, that's how it needs to be. I believe what I read in the Bible because in my opinion, it has proven itself to be true. I have too many questions of "why" to believe that anything can exist from a state of nothing. With that being said, it was written by men and we all are aware that people allow their perspectives and biases to affect their writing. Consequently, some things don't seem to make sense unless you dig deeper to find out what's really going on. I am a bit of a snob to my own personal beliefs. Sometimes, I hear something in a church [[usually a funeral service) that is contrary to the word of God and I immediately tune out and stop paying attention after that. I should take more of it with a grain of salt because that's their thing, it just bugs me that there is so much mythology built into church services anymore that many preachers repeat it when they should know that it's not true [[or at least supported by scripture).

[soulster]

Soulster, why atre all of these people trying to invite you to church? It remind sme of when my brother fell and hurt his leg and refused to go to the doctor to have it checked out.

I live in a very conservative area with lots of evangelical types.

[Jerry Oz]

I live in a very conservative area with lots of evangelical types.

Don't you mean that they love you unconditionally and care about the disposition of your immortal soul?

[soulster]

Don't you mean that they love you unconditionally and care about the disposition of your immortal soul?

Who the hell knows? I notice it's only women who ever invite me.

[Roberta75]

Recently spoke with a few people that no longer regularly attend Sunday morning church services. they gave various reasons. I was wondering do you attend church regularly and if not, why not? Also, If so why do you?

I attend church 3 times a week and find it real helpful. My life revolve around my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ the son of God and I read the scriptures every night in bed and pray before all my meals. I am a devout Christian but a real liberal Christian. I believe in a woman right to chose and i believe that homosexual gentlemen and lesbian ladies should be allowed to marry. god is with my every minute of every day but I still enjoy my time in church.

Yours, with every good wish.

Roberta

[Jerry Oz]

Roberta, I think you embody what glencro and I were talking about. I'm fine with people who make up their own minds, even if it's not to believe in God or Christ. I have beliefs that are not shared by many in my congregation; I believe that I can back my beliefs up within the word. I get tired of a handful of [[usually) men who decide what is right or wrong. Mostly, I find it wrong to impose my beliefs on those who do not share them. I'm glad you are open-minded.

[Roberta75]

Roberta, I think you embody what glencro and I were talking about. I'm fine with people who make up their own minds, even if it's not to believe in God or Christ. I have beliefs that are not shared by many in my congregation; I believe that I can back my beliefs up within the word. I get tired of a handful of [[usually) men who decide what is right or wrong. Mostly, I find it wrong to impose my beliefs on those who do not share them. I'm glad you are open-minded.

Thank you Jerry Oz for your kind words they are real nice and very much appreciated.

Best to you.

Roberta

[Kamasu_Jr]

Soulster, my brother by another mother. I agree with what you said about science proving some of the things in the Bible really happened. There are logical, rational reasons but they happened; Maybe not in a miraculous way but they did happen. I don't know about Atheism. You can believe what you want. But If you don't believe in God, a higher power or a Supreme Being, then what do you believe in? Why are we here? How did we get here? Man did not evolve from an ape because if that were true, wouldn't man still be evolving from Apes? I mean wouldn't there be some apes that could talk and ration? God believes in you whether you believe in him or not. I have felt the presence of God in my life and in a room. It is real. He has never let me down every time I've needed him. God is so good, he wants man to use the brain and intellect that he [[or she) created and gave us. But he wants us to know the truth.

[soulster]

But he wants us to know the truth.

Yes, God does! It is our duty to discover the real truth, not to rely on man's lies and fantasies.

[144man]

Soulster, my brother by another mother. I agree with what you said about science proving some of the things in the Bible really happened. There are logical, rational reasons but they happened; Maybe not in a miraculous way but they did happen. I don't know about Atheism. You can believe what you want. But If you don't believe in God, a higher power or a Supreme Being, then what do you believe in? Why are we here? How did we get here? Man did not evolve from an ape because if that were true, wouldn't man still be evolving from Apes? I mean wouldn't there be some apes that could talk and ration? God believes in you whether you believe in him or not. I have felt the presence of God in my life and in a room. It is real. He has never let me down every time I've needed him. God is so good, he wants man to use the brain and intellect that he [[or she) created and gave us. But he wants us to know the truth.

Men didn't evolve from apes, they share a common ancestor, just like dogs, cats and bears share a common ancestor. What settles it for me that the Theory of Evolution is broadly correct is that the human embryo goes through evolutionary changes inside the womb rather than just start off as a small version of a baby which grows bigger until it is born.

[imnokid]

the Theory of Evolution is broadly correct is that the human embryo goes through evolutionary changes inside the womb rather than just start off as a small version of a baby which grows bigger until it is born.

Even an atheist will say Amen! to that.

[Kamasu_Jr]

It was announced the other day that the Shroud of Turin , a 2000 year old cloth that was used to wrap Christ's body is real. Part of me thinks it's good news, but a part of me is cynical too because the Catholic church says it's authentic. I know the Catholic church has problems and has done things to promote itself...but it could be the real thing.

[soulster]

I don't care for Catholicism, but i'm liking this new Pope! First, he praises Pres. Obama, he believes in birth control, and now he's breaking rules. he washed the feet on females at holy communion, which is forbidden under church rules, or something like that! Man, the orthodox faithful won't know what to do! I'll bet more than a few of them will leave the church! Ha-ha!