In fact, Merv announced it, "Nathan Jones" as being their 22nd Gold Record!
In fact, Merv announced it, "Nathan Jones" as being their 22nd Gold Record!
That just reminded me: I read a piece of Marvin trivia that said Marvin took a photograph of a gold-certified single. But Marvin was already suspicious that the gold record wasn't real, so to investigate, he opened the plaque with the record and turned the record around. Lo and behold, it was a spray painted Supremes record!
Actually , the history of the first gold record is similar to your Marvin Gaye story
This term got its start in 1942, when RCA Victor took one of the master copies of Glenn Miller's Chattanooga Choo Choo, and sprayed it with gold lacquer as a publicity gimmick to promote the success of the recording with over 1,200,000 records sold. This was the first Gold Record ever awarded to a recording artist. RCA presented several other Gold Record to their artists before the award became an industry-wide award. RCA awarded a Gold Record to Elvis Presley in 1956 for 1,000,000 sales of the single Don't Be Cruel, and to Harry Belafonte in 1957 for the album Calypso [[1956), the first album to sell over 1,000,000 copies.
Several records sold over 1 million copies in the early 1900's, including recordings by Enrico Caruso and Al Jolson. Prior to Miller's recording in 1942, Gene Austin's recording of My Blue Heaven, in 1928, was reported to have sold over five million copies.
The first RIAA Certified Gold Record was Catch a Falling Star by Perry Como in 1958.
The only thing that makes the RIAA Gold Records "real" is that they are certified by the RIAA and have their certified seal. I have some of them and I bet if I opened them up and tried to play them, it wouldn't be the artist on the label. In fact on some of them, the amount of songs on the label does not match the amount of songs on the album
From Call Her Miss Ross
Someone suggested releasing SWBT, a tune Diana had recorded earlier. Berry had planned it as ONE of her first solo records, not a Supremes song. Diana was backed by a CHOIR OF VOICES that only the most naive fan would have taken for Wilson and Birdsong. Still this was a superior record ~ a gospel flavored mid tempo arrangement with a composed, easy going delivery from Diana ~ and it began climbing the charts as soon as it was released in October. Eventually, it would become a #1 record, the biggest song of their career [[over two million copies eventually sold) and the fourth INSTANT million seller recorded by Diana as a member of the Supremes, including Where Did Our Love Go, You Can't Hurry Love and Love Child. I'm Gonna Make You Love Me also sold a million.
THOUGH MOTOWN's SALES FIGURES ARE SAID TO BE INCOMPLETE, it SEEMS Baby Love, Come See About Me, Stop in the Name of Love, and You Keep me Hangin On probably all eventually sold a million copies as years of sales were tallied, but they were not million sellers during the time of their original releases. Press hype to the contrary, other famous Supremes singles like Back in My Arms Again, Nothing But Heartaches, Love is here and Now you're Gone and Reflections did not even come close to selling a million; most sold roughly half that much.
Interesting points are that these assertions have been bandied around as FACT when even he says the figures he was relying on ARE SAID TO BE INCOMPLETE. And he also talks about 5 INSTANT million sellers. Well, a million is a million whether instant or not.
The real fact is the available information was "said to be incomplete".
David,
Wish I could answer your question but I was definitely out of the loop regarding the Sales Department.
You are write it was certified Platinum around @ 1997. I have often wondered if the sales department or whomever was responsible was totally aware of how to account for shipment and purchase. Its obvious that several Supremes and Diana Ross singles were moving up the charts.
Well in comparison, the Temptations have had more of their records [[singles and some albums) certify either gold or platinum more so than the Supremes so it makes you wonder...
Well airplay was very much wrapped up into the charts. And there were years in the 1960's where the Supremes/Diana Ross were the artist of the year along with the Beatles and they were the artists that moved Motown into the "white" market.
But later on, by about 1968, I suspect the Temptations started to sell more than the Supremes and for the 4 years from 1968 to 1972, the Tempts had to sell more albums than the Supremes. The Supremes basically petered out.
As years went on, there was still a Temptations presence whereas none of the Supremes albums from the 1970's sold well or were big hits. That continued presence and a few hits here and there [[Phoenix Rising etc) and continued touring would have kept the sales going for the Temptations.
Taraborelli was able to get a print out of US Supremes and Diana's solo "7 sales for the 1989 " Call Her Miss Ross"..the sales figures are included in that book....
Great thread!!
Learning much from you all, most interesting .
Nomis.............but Randy did not use much if any of the sales information he published in Call Her Miss Ross for his updated, more definitive biography on Diana Ross published a couple of years ago. I wonder why not?? It made me think he was no longer sure it was reliable but he didn't say that.
There has been so much said about Motown sales figures and really, there is nothing very definitive out there about it at all.
@Jobeterob, it seems the Supremes succeeded on airplay than sales figures, whereas the Temptations had both. Sounds like that's what happened with the Beatles' singles as well...
@midnight: I have no real first hand knowledge of who sold what; to me, it is not out of the realm of possibility that some of the sales figures bandied about are not accurate and that some of the singles rumoured not to have sold that much ~ Come See About Me, Stop in the Name of Love, Back in My Arms Again, Nothing but Heartaches and My World is Empty Without You ~ could actually have been amongst their biggest sellers.
Randy never published "the list" that he had; he just used some figures when he wanted to say songs like You Can't Hurry Love, Touch Me in the Morning, Where Did Our Love Go, and Aint No Mountain High Enough sold a couple million each at release date; and that Baby Love and the others I listed above did not sell a million as was previously assumed.
I recall Mary's book said if a single of theirs reached #30 it sold "millions" I believe was her version.
i think the Supremes had so much product out at the time that it may have divided sales in some cases where as over a period of years they may have sold a million copies.one of Elvis albums was certifed gold not too long ago. if AT THE COPA/MERRY CHRISTMAS were released all at one time,it may have caused fans to have to choose in some cases. i think motown flooded the market with Supremes albums in some years....1965 and 1968 come to mind
just because the gold record wasnt certified by RIAA doesnt mean the song didnt sell a million copies.motown was a singles driven company and i dont think a song like BABY LOVE went to #1 for 4 weeks and didnt sell a million. it did .also remember rock and roll was still kinda young and even RIAA hadnt been around all that long either. if motown had staff in place for audits ,why pay RIAA to do the same thing.
i do remember Merv saying they had 22 gold records also.but also remember that the defintion of a gold record has changed over the years. i think in the beginning it was a record that made a million dollars in $ but then later to a record that actually sold a million copies.
i think the Supremes had 14 million selling singles.
also when Baby love and Stop were certified in 1997 ,it did not include original sales from the 60s.only sales from 1976 forward when motown joined RIAA.
also when Baby love and Stop were certified in 1997 ,it did not include original sales from the 60s.only sales from 1976 forward when motown joined RIAA.[/QUOTE]
I did not know this. Probably the accounting records from the 60's were not available by the time of the certifications.
Where did you hear this David?
The platinum plaque wasn't introduced to the RIAA until 1976 for albums selling a million copies. I don't know if it was that year they also said the same for singles that sold a million or not. It might've been 1989 as someone else pointed out.
Ralph I love the Waters and many other background singers but I still dont understand if Flo and Mary were doing so well on Baby Love, You Keep Me Hangin On, You cant hurry Love etc why did they need to be replaced by The Andantes? They sure sounded good on those songs and they sold a bundle! And I love to hear distinctive voices rather than often homgonized background voices, e.g the backgrounds on When Youre Young and In Love. People have often said the Marvelettes backgrounds could be off key but they sure sold a lot of records on Please Mr Postman!
I believe the Andantes were on hand in case the actual group became too difficult to work with. By the time 1968 came around they just stuck with the Andantes and other session singers because they were more cooperative.
Luke,
I think as the Supremes popularity rose, the choice of material became more and more sophisticated. I'm not saying Flo and Mary could't have copped the parts, but not as expedient and, more than likely, not as good. And as I always say, it was all about selling records.
i dont remember exactly wheer i read it but ,i just remember that the origianl sales info was LOST,whatever that means, and the sales for those gold records were based on saled from 1976 till 1997.
Supremes albums.....
Greatest hits 1967 ....6,000.000
merry christmas.......3,000.000
where did our love go3,225.000
a go go...........................3,469.000
i hear a symphony........1,894.000
sing hdh..........................1,518.000
more hits........................1,642.000
copa..................................1,316.000
join the temptations.....1,426.000
tcb.......................................1,397.00 0
greatest hits 3..................1,216.000
anthology............................982,000
reflections...........................724.000
love child..............................683.000
together with......................492.000
rogers and hart..................486.000
right on..................................439.000
here is some info froma fan club,many years ago,not sure how accurate it is but ...you decide for yourself.
BABY LOVE........3,496.000
SOMEDAY WELL BE TOGETHER.....3,077.000
LOVE CHILD...........2,899.000
WHERE DID OUR LOVE GO.....2,700.000
YOU CANT HURRY LOVE.........2,424.000
STOP IN THE NAME OF LOVE...2,154.OOO
COME SEE ABOUT ME......1,870.000
I HEAR A SYMPHONY......1,604.000
YOU KEEP ME HANGIN ON...1,758.000
I'M GONNA MAKE U LOVE ME1,557.000
REFLECTIONS ...1,371.000
MY WORLD IS EMPTY....1,277.000
BACK IN MY ARMS AGAIN..1,029.000
STONED LOVE 2,300.000
also,CREAM OF THE CROP.....566,000
Not speaking with a forked tongue, Robb.
Rob,
All in all it was really quite simple. Bring in the best talent for the job and get it done.
Stone Love was a big hit. It most likely stayed on the charts longer, which would have resulted in more copies being sold.
I agree that SL was a big hit. I'm not trying to slight SL which I like better than Stop! but I still have a hard time believing that Stop! didn't keep selling through the 60s. I have about 5 different pressings of the 45rpm the last of which I think was released in '68 [[and there surely are more). In addition, Stop! was number 1 for two weeks and I think SL peaked at #7. Just odd, that's all [[meaning that I don't want to start another conspiracy theory).
the More Hits album was a big success, many folks got "Stop" that way..
New Ways was a tremendous album, but many opted to buy the single and not the album..
LOVE IS AN ITCHING IN MY HEART is my favorite single and i cant believe it didnt sell a million copies.? but it only sold about 700,000 copies, but still a great jam to me
the Andantees and the Waters and other were used i think to do the demos for all the groups. as time went by and all the groups became more successful and i suppose it became easier just to use the backing vocals that were already completed. why spend more money on rerecording the vocals again. i dont think motown would get away with this now and i am not saying it's correct but it did fool me ,at least for a while.i didnt notice any difference until the Supremes FOREVER CAM TODAY
Yes it is, Roberta. Which is why it is called the music business.
Weren't the Andantes on "Up the Ladder to the Roof" alongside Mary and Cindy?
The Andantes were not credited on the Right On album; and on the Floy Joy
lp their names are listed alphabetically, interspersed among the names of the musicians. At the time of Floy Joy's release , many people would have been unfamiliar with their names and might not have realized that they even were the Andantes.
I figured. The background in "Up the Ladder" sounded like a gospel harmony group. I argued the same type of harmony was used in Diana's "Ain't No Mountain High Enough" version and the Andantes were on that too. Besides, that song didn't sound like it was only two other women in the background.
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