Has Hip O [[Motown) Slowed Down?

[longtimefan]

In relation to the "Baby It's Me" thread....

It seems like HipO Motown has slowed down. When the Martha set was first made public in September 2012, it was to be available in December. Then suddenly, a new date in April date was announced, i.e., making the release 3-4 months later [[April 2013). The Four Tops set was also announced.

During this same period fall 2012 through April period, there has been no announcement or "hint" of anything else coming out. [[Yes, "Baby It's Me" has been hinted at for a long, long while.)

Additionally, since last fall we have had few releases with reduced number of copies. The last Supremes release had only 2000 sets produced [[September) and the Mary Wells set had only 1500 [[November). Marvin's set [["Trouble Man") did have 5000 copies, however. Otherwise, ziltch.

There used to be more "chatter" from HipO on the Boards and tweets, but that has all but disappeared -- although Harry has posted on SDF from time to time. Andy has "disappeared." :-)

Putting all of this together, I see a slow down. This is not written in criticism, but rather in concern that a "slow down" is worrisome to all of us who are ready and willing to purchase these products.

[JohnnyB]

In relation to the "Baby It's Me" thread....

It seems like HipO Motown has slowed down. When the Martha set was first made public in September 2012, it was to be available in December. Then suddenly, a new date in April date was announced, i.e., making the release 3-4 months later [[April 2013). The Four Tops set was also announced.

During this same period fall 2012 through April period, there has been no announcement or "hint" of anything else coming out. [[Yes, "Baby It's Me" has been hinted at for a long, long while.)

Additionally, since last fall we have had few releases with reduced number of copies. The last Supremes release had only 2000 sets produced [[September) and the Mary Wells set had only 1500 [[November). Marvin's set [["Trouble Man") did have 5000 copies, however. Otherwise, ziltch.

There used to be more "chatter" from HipO on the Boards and tweets, but that has all but disappeared -- although Harry has posted on SDF from time to time. Andy has "disappeared." :-)

Putting all of this together, I see a slow down. This is not written in criticism, but rather in concern that a "slow down" is worrisome to all of us who are ready and willing to purchase these products.

Good points, and I, too, am coming from a place of concern, not criticism. Andy, Harry and George do such exceptional work; I hope it continues!

[jobeterob]

Andy posted recently and he is on Facebook every day.

My idea might be that Meet the Supremes and At the Copa were, to me, not seminal Supremes or Diana Ross albums. While I Want A Guy showed a young Ross with a very mature voice and At the Copa was a landmark concert, neither of the albums were musically where "Where Did Our Love Go" was. And I would guess the sales showed that.

And as they continually say, we need to buy the "Greatest Hits" incarnations to show there is a Motown market and to fund the Deluxe Editions.

And also, they might be waiting for Motown the Musical. An album like Baby It's Me might be best held on the off chance the Musical is a hit and renews interest in Diane.

[Kamasu_Jr]

Just let them do their business. We will see moRE releases. Most labels slow down around the Grammys and then business picks up again.

[thanxal]

Sales are usually slow in Q1. Many releases are scheduled nearer the Christmas holiday shopping season. I would only worry if we see nothing for a long time [[+10 months)

[Motown4Ever518]

While we have been blessed with a plethora of releases of late from our favorite label, lets not forget that Hippo does produce other genres, so they could have increased releases in other areas.

[longtimefan]

Seeing the tweet this weekend that "Baby It's Me" has been "delayed" causes me to reflect on my original post [[above). I find it hard to believe this what I am calling a "slow down" has much to do with the Broadway musical.

Perhaps Harry will help us out. Or Andy -- is he still on the picture?

[Kamasu_Jr]

It's natural they'd be getting down to the bottom of the barrel eventually. There's probably not much left as far as the Supremes-, maybe the Disney album and the specialty LPs like Liverpool and Country Western & Pop. It happens. The well runs dry. I've not seen a new release on the Impressions, Dusty Springfield, Nat Cole, Sam Cooke or The Fifth Dimension in years.

[whitesoxx]

The fact that "Baby It's Me" has been delayed [[again) is pretty frustrating indeed. I'm sure that when it finally comes out it will have been well worth the wait, but I still wonder why the small reissue labels can manage several releases a month, whereas Hip-O releases have slowed down to a few a year.

There has been a lot of demand for titles like "Baby It's Me" which has been out of print on cd for years, but also other mid-to-late 70's/early 80's Motown albums which have always been underrepresented on cd. I'm glad Universal Japan will be releasing two more batches of Motown albums from this period in mini lp-sleeves. I am especially excited about Rick James' "Throwin' Down" finally getting a stand-alone cd release as I'd given up hope Hip-O were going to release it. It's been almost 9 years since he died, surely his back catalogue should have been remastered and released by now...

[soulster]

It will certainly be nice to get a CD with the full album version of "Dance Wit Me".

It's speculation, but has anyone considered that the holdup for "Baby It's Me" might be the tapes, or legal issues? It probably isn't about a label dragging its feet. there are so many things that go into a reissue. Tapes aren't always perfect condition and available.

[Kamasu_Jr]

How do we find out about upcoming releases in Japan?

[aarondillon2011@gmail.com]

Well,we know Baby It's Me was at least near completion when it was discovered that there were I think 4 more songs discovered for the Diana Ross 76' album. I could be wrong but I think it was discovered that there were some other songs recently discovered for the Baby It's Me album as well. I Do hope those are the only reasons for it's delay.

[soulster]

Well, when they tell us that something has been put on hold, it could mean anything, and it's not up for discussion. That tells me there are legal issues.

[Kamasu_Jr]

Well, when they tell us that something has been put on hold, it could mean anything, and it's not up for discussion. That tells me there are legal issues.

Good point, the producer of BIM, Richard Perry is still alive and the artist is as well. The delay could be due to legal issues.

[thisoldheart]

slowdown? the four tops & martha & the vandellas delux singles' sets, AND the complete singles set 14 a & b? i am in seventh heaven!

[calvin]

How do we find out about upcoming releases in Japan?

I'd also like someone to answer this. I've bought some stuff from cdjapan but I find the search function on their website pretty bad, and I don't have the time [[or patience) to go through ALL the new releases they post.

[longtimefan]

In relation to the "Baby It's Me" thread....

It seems like HipO Motown has slowed down. When the Martha set was first made public in September 2012, it was to be available in December. Then suddenly, a new date in April date was announced, i.e., making the release 3-4 months later [[April 2013). The Four Tops set was also announced.

During this same period fall 2012 through April period, there has been no announcement or "hint" of anything else coming out. [[Yes, "Baby It's Me" has been hinted at for a long, long while.)

Additionally, since last fall we have had few releases with reduced number of copies. The last Supremes release had only 2000 sets produced [[September) and the Mary Wells set had only 1500 [[November). Marvin's set [["Trouble Man") did have 5000 copies, however. Otherwise, ziltch.

There used to be more "chatter" from HipO on the Boards and tweets, but that has all but disappeared -- although Harry has posted on SDF from time to time. Andy has "disappeared." :-)

Putting all of this together, I see a slow down. This is not written in criticism, but rather in concern that a "slow down" is worrisome to all of us who are ready and willing to purchase these products.

As I wrote a few months ago, I remain puzzled about the Motown-HipO "slow down." We have had the addition of TCMS 12A since then, but no word from Harry and crew; no announcements; no tweets, etc. Is Andy still in the picture?

An earlier response from a member suggested that the first quarter of the year is often slow. Perhaps, but we are now almost mid year.

Not capitalizing on the publicity of the Motown musical hype puzzles me, too.

[midnightman]

It's record label business. Like it's been said, I think it's label issues. Who knows? Maybe Harry will give us the 411 about what's going on.

[skooldem1]

Harry has capitalized on the Motown Musical. Released recently was Motown the Musical: Classic songs that inspired the Broadway show. Not sure if he had anything to do with the recording of the original Broadway Cast album or not. But those are 2 new projects capitalizing on the musical.

[longtimefan]

Right, skooldem1, new compilations have released that are directly related -- even the cover graphics -- to MOTOWN: THE MUSICAL.

Of course, TCMS 12A has been released, following the last release 11B in 2009.

I have just been perplexed about what I define as HipO's "slow down" See the first post above, hoping that the musical would generate interest so that expanded editions we are hoping for would be released soon.

I am not going to second guess the reasons for this apparent "slow down" at HipO, but I have my fingers crossed. Hopefully, Harry will reply. Or Andy? Is he still in the picture?

[Kamasu_Jr]

I think Harry Weinger, Andy and George Solomon have done a good job. If they don't get things released on Select or Hip-O, they strike deals with other labels and have begun offering classic Motown albums as downloads. HW listens to the fans. So I'm not complaining. When you look at things closely, most of the classics from 1962 to 1972 have been issued. What more is there- A few albums by Jr. Walker, three or five albums by the Four Tops, the specialty albums by the Supremes. There are hundreds of classic Motown albums already available, in my opinion.

[Ngroove]

I think Harry Weinger, Andy and George Solomon have done a good job. If they don't get things released on Select or Hip-O, they strike deals with other labels and have begun offering classic Motown albums as downloads. HW listens to the fans. So I'm not complaining. When you look at things closely, most of the classics from 1962 to 1972 have been issued. What more is there- A few albums by Jr. Walker, three or five albums by the Four Tops, the specialty albums by the Supremes. There are hundreds of classic Motown albums already available, in my opinion.

Never hurts to reprint some of them, and few years after that, reprint them again. Because frankly, even though I already have the Supremes' "Where Did Our Love Go" on vinyl, I might also want it on CD for good measure too, which still costs quite an out-of-print pretty penny. Same goes to the 70s Supremes albums, to someday buy them for "regular" prices.

[Kamasu_Jr]

You must mean the deluxe edition of WDOLG which is selling on Amazon for $400 to $700 dollars? Regular versions of this album are easily affordable.

[Jimi LaLumia]

I'll re share this here, from a different thread, as I think it is relevant here even more...

Jimi LaLumia
Senior Member
Join DateApr 2011Posts1,069

Hip-O Select/Universal cry about the sales figures of these things, but really, where do they advertise these releases, where do they get reviews? I've never seen an ad anywhere for these deluxe type releases [[except for two reviews in Rolling Stone, I believe I saw Marvin Gaye and the second Marvelettes package)..how can people buy something if they don't know it exists? I've spoken to many people over time, Supremes fans, who know nothing of the deluxe editions, and want to own them...

Last edited by Jimi LaLumia; 06-17-2013 at 05:27 AM.

[carole cucumber]

I'll re share this here, from a different thread, as I think it is relevant here even more...

Jimi LaLumia
Senior Member
Join DateApr 2011Posts1,069

Hip-O Select/Universal cry about the sales figures of these things, but really, where do they advertise these releases, where do they get reviews? I've never seen an ad anywhere for these deluxe type releases [[except for two reviews in Rolling Stone, I believe I saw Marvin Gaye and the second Marvelettes package)..how can people buy something if they don't know it exists? I've spoken to many people over time, Supremes fans, who know nothing of the deluxe editions, and want to own them...

Last edited by Jimi LaLumia; 06-17-2013 at 05:27 AM.

I know that in the past Hip-O-Select placed sizable advertisements of its upcoming and latest re-issues faithfully in Goldmine and Discoveries Magazines [[geared toward collectors with a special bent toward vintage artists and recordings). Once available, the cd's and box sets were also reviewed within the pages of the magazine.
As the collector's market began to diminish, only Goldmine survived. I will have to check with a friend of mine who still subscribes to Goldmine, but I'll bet that there are still ads for releases such as TCMS12A there and most likely a review.

[carole cucumber]

Might the merger of Universal and EMI have any bearing at Hip-O-Select?
It does seem odd that there have been several Motown albums [[usually straight album re-issues that many of us already have) added to available for download lists [[as presented in other threads ) and little in the way of physical product.
One would have thought that the success of Motown the Musical attendance-wise would have lead to an increase of cd availablity of the artists featured/mentioned within the production.

[Nothing But Soul]

Motown fans should consider themselves lucky when it comes to Hip-O Select releases. Other than possibly James Brown fans, Motown fans have been treated better than anyone. Hip-O Select hasn't slowed down in its releases for some of the other labels owned by Universal Music [[for example, the Duke/Peacock family of labels or ABC Bluesway)--they 've barely started! And with the Chess label, while Hip-O Select has had some great releases, those have been limited to a handful of blues and early rock and roll artists. Much of the vast Chess catalog has seen no releases from Hip-O Select at all. When I go to the various pages on the Hip-O Select website, I count more releases on the Motown Select page than anywhere else.

[mr_postman]

Carole, I've heard from other sources that the merger between Universal and EMI is indeed the factor behind the recent slow-down in reissues.

[Kamasu_Jr]

UMG acquired EMI? So that explains why there are releases like ICons on the Beach Boys and Natalie Cole and Playlist by Diana Ross.

[aarondillon2011@gmail.com]

So is there a possibility that Hip-o could cease to exist ordoes it mean that they are waiting for the merger to be finalized and thenstart production up again?

[Kamasu_Jr]

I thought I read the merger was approved last year and that it was UMG that acquired EMI for billions. I would assume that if any company were to disappear, it would be Capitol/EMI. But the Capitol name has a rich history and a roster of artists.

[soulster]

Never hurts to reprint some of them, and few years after that, reprint them again.

There may be several reasons reprints don't happen. The first is obvious: the title didn't sell enough copies to make it worth the trouble. In other words, the company lost money on it. The second reason is that there may be limitations on how long certain material can be reissued, legally. A third reason can be that, while there may be clearance to reissue something at one point, legal circumstances could have changed to make it difficult or impossible to do another run. And, last, there is the artist. In the case of UMe, they may already own the material and have the rights, so in that case, we go back to reason #1.

[soulster]

I thought I read the merger was approved last year and that it was UMG that acquired EMI for billions. I would sssume that if any company were to disappear, it would be Capitol/EMI. But the Capitol name has a rich history and a roster of artists.

That's right. The merger is a done deal. EMI, as we knew it as an independent conglomerate, is no more. All we can hope is that UMe is preparing a lot of reissues that were on the EMI/EMI-America/Capitol/Liberty catalog, much like when RCA and Sony merged.

[Buttered Popcorn and so forth]

I hope the Diana Ross "Baby It's Me" and "Ross" deluxe editions are still coming out. I've held off on buying the Japan mini-LP CD versions that came out recently, but now I might have to get them before they go out of print just in case the deluxe ones never come out!

[aarondillon2011@gmail.com]

Well with Harry and company not saying anything it sure has me worried :-[[

[marybrewster]

Just talking out loud here, but.....

Maybe now is the time we start enjoying all of the titles that HAVE been released. What I'm saying is, and maybe there are other that will agree [[?)": I'm tired of the "what's next" attitiude. Haven't we, as a whole, gotten more than we ever dreamed of? I mean, did you EVER think we'd get some of the sets that have been released? I have seen many, many times, on the date that something is released, that the next question is: when is the next one going to be released? Can't we just enjoy the music and let Harry and Andy and the rest do what they do best? It's apparent that some releases take time; they're not whipping them out in a day. We've seen in cases that some releases take months, even years. And Harry and Andy [[and company) are GOOD at what they do. They give us QUALITY product. Hidden gems. Lush booklets. Stories and interviews with the people that were there. These things take time.

I'm still discovering new things on "the Jean Terrell Years" and the "Let Yourself Go" sets. Not to throw names out there [[or involve anyone in my madness) but maybe we could talk Midnight Johnny into revisiting these sets on his show. I know Susaye is very proud of the set she was included in; maybe she could come back to his show and answer some questions that we've thought of since, or maybe she'd like to give some additional insight into the recordning sessions, the touring.....

I'm not saying it's bad to be eager, but I think it's a bit overwhelming to be greedy. Even if there is never another release, don't you all think we've been pretty damn lucky? I for one truly appreciate all of the deluxe editions I've been able to afford, and I thank Harry and Andy [[and the crew) for everything thus far. I'm certain in time there will be more, but in the meantime, I'm going to look at my collection of Motown releases as half full.

[jobeterob]

I agree that it's been good and because I still work fulltime, I really haven't listened a lot to many of the releases that came out; someday I'll go back too.

Something appears to have changed and perhaps the merger mentioned above is the answer. There is not masses of money in the industry anymore but the readjustment that was necessary must be complete???

Baby It's Me would be a real loss if it didn't get rereleased; not so sure about Ross.

[RossHolloway]

@Marybrewster - I agree with you 100%.

[ejluther]

Words to live by, marybrewster - it's so easy to get so much media these days that it does seem harder to enjoy what you do have...

[R. Mark Desjardins]

Marybrewster you have made some very good points about being grateful for what Hip-O Select has made available to Motown fans. A sense of "entitlement" has apparently crept into some avid Motown fans thinking they have the right to hear every note ever recorded.

I've often wondered myself how these lavish CD sets could be produced in limited editions of 5,000 to 10,000 units and be profitable. A good point has been made that advertising these deluxe editions has often been under the radar. On the other hand, with the near elimination of brick and mortar music stores to purchase releases, advertising a new product seems redundant.

Hard core Motown music lovers like us who are members of this site are in the loop, but the vast majority of people who might purchase these expanded editions are seemingly unaware of using the internet to search out information. Hopefully the dedicated team at Hip-O Select will be able to carry on as they have in the past, and we the fans have the opportunity to support their future projects.

[calvin]

I certainly appreciate what Harry and his team have offered us, and I hope for more because I enjoy what they've done. And I'll bet that Harry also wishes he could release many of the titles we request here.

If the Motown Select releases were big sellers, I guess we would see more [[they would hire more people if necessary). Universal Music is not a charity, and sales expectations must play a big role in the decisions as to what gets released. The Smokey Robinson Solo Albums series, for example, was halted due to poor sales. I'm very disappointed that this series didn't sell better [[I bought all the volumes) but that's the way it is and I understand.

Let's face it - unfortunately, there are not so many people today who want to go deep into the Motown catalogue. For most, a various artists / greatest hits compilation is enough, or perhaps a greatest hits compilation from one or more of their favourite Motown artists.

I would guess that the top selling artists for Motown Select would be The Jackson 5 / Michael Jackson, and Diana Ross & The Supremes / Diana Ross - and that's why we see more releases on them. Hip-O has already done several Diana Ross releases, so I guess these generally sold ok. They wouldn't have planned the release of "Baby, It's Me" unless they thought it would sell sufficiently. So I guess [[and hope) that this title is delayed for a reason other than sales expectations and will be released.

[calvin]

I don't know, but I think it's very possible that Vivendi's purchase of the music arm of EMI might slow things down at Motown Select for a while. I've worked at companies that were involved in takeovers, and it can take time [[and a lot of meetings!) to work out the new strategy and structure throughout various levels of the company. And now the Universal back catalogue just got bigger...

Incidentally, Vivendi / Universal pledged to sell EMI assets of at least half a billion US dollars to satisfy concerns of the European Commission. Yesterday it was announced that Universal completed the sale of EMI's Parlaphone label to Warner Music for £487 million, fulfilling this pledge. So now Universal knows exactly what it has.

[Kamasu_Jr]

Well said MaryBrewster. Let's enjoy what we've got up 'til now rather than worry if Baby It's Me deluxe is going to get released. There are fans who only buy the Supremes and Diana Ross so they are always asking "what's next?" They don't have lots of other music to listen to. Back to BIM - If you really want it, you would buy the Japanese import. You can always sell it IF BIM gets issued in an expanded form. There are deprived Motown fans in China or Africa who would love to have the things we have.

[1382hitsville]

Mary, wise words. And lately I have been revisiting some releases [[Copa, More Hits, Funk Brothers etc) and now I even enjoy them more and still discover new things. Thanks for all involved in all releases.

Oh, by the way, I'm really happy with TMSC 12a!

[thisoldheart]

with the tops, the vandellas, and tmsc 12a we really have received an embarrassment of riches this year! thanks harry & andy!

well written reminder mary brewster. thanks for putting things into perspective!

[lakedistrictlad1]

Marybrewster you are so right.

Once over I knew every track on every Motown lp I owned.

But over the last few years we have been treated to SO MANY incredible releases that I have lost track of what I have - and many songs are still sitting there awaiting my ears.

This is a situation I never thought i'd see in my wildest dreams.

So I for one are more than satisfied with what I have. I really don't need a new release any day soon.

[calvin]

I agree that we should be grateful for what's been offered, and I think all of us are. The original poster and others asked this question out of concern, not out of criticism.

As for myself, I support Motown Select by purchasing their releases. I don't "worry" about what's coming next, but yes, I would like to see more, and I've sometimes made requests for titles by certain artists [[eg Jr Walker). I don't feel like this is being ungrateful, like a child who complains that he didn't get enough presents for Christmas. Harry and his team also need to sell their releases and I'm just saying that I like what they do and will support them if they offer more. I don't think there's anything wrong with that.

I guess that sales expectations have been a constraint on which and how many titles Motown Select could release. I would also guess that there are projects Harry would like to do but can't because Universal expects they would take a loss on them. We - including Motown Select - would all be better off if there were more loyal customers who purchase everything and eagerly ask for more.

[kenneth]

I totally agree that we have been extremely well treated by Hip-O and yes, I have lots of releases from them I've only played once. One or two [[such as the DeBarge set) I don't think I've even played once yet.

Still...as a collector...I can't help it. I want more!!!

[carole cucumber]

Marybrewster's post is both very insightful and sets the scene for the future. I'm not sure how many here follow sites that hype/preview upcoming releases/re-issues such as Pause & Play, MusicTap, The Second Disc.
Even a cursory glimpse at any of them is very telling. With the merger, it appears that a good deal of attention is and will be focused on the newly acquired artists/catalogues, as happens most often.
Therefore, it's only natural that Harry, Andy & George, who push for the releases we love, will have a much harder time of it. And they may have to be more restrictive/selective in their requests. Let's hope that some of the other specialized re-issue labels who have opted for Motown titles will continue to offer them to the fans.
Harry had indicated that he and his wonderful team had hoped to have 1972B of TCMSC out before the end of the year, but I wonder if we might more realistically not expect it any sooner than summer of 2014.
In the interim, I'll just enjoy selecting a little bit of this and a little bit of that from the amazing re-issues we have already received and hearing them once again as if it were the first time.

[johnjeb]

Even if Hip-O has slowed down there seems to be plenty of Motown related product from other labels.

I got TCMS 12A, Martha and Tops collections when they were released. Aside from the Martha Lost & Found Disc, I have only played the other discs one time each.

I also got the Finders Keepers and G C Cameron's CDs. Those have received numerous replays. I was particularly surprised by how much I am enjoying the G C Cameron CD. I can't remember if I ever had this vinyl album, although I had several of his 45s and his other album. I bought this CD for the song "No Matter Where" which has always been one of my favorites from Motown in the 70s [[the ladies in the background are superb, as is GC's vocal). The whole CD is very good.

I still want to get a few other CDs like Caston & Majors and Eddie Holland [[long overdue). So for those wanting more there seems to be plenty out there. I can wait for Hip-O.

Oh, and I'm still enjoying my Christmas gifts of Mary Wells Lost & Found from Hip-O, The Spinners from Kent and Thelma Houston's Mowest album and The Miracles Columbia releases each from David Nathan's Soul Music label. I'm good.