Diana Ross on "Like Hep"

[franjoy56]

One of the rare solo tv appearance Diana made while still with the Supremes in the spring of 1969 was "Like Hep" where she was painted in psycho-delic colors, and featuring a wild performance of "Let the Sunshine In" a number on the album by the same name.

I often wondered what happened on the set which caused Lucille Ball to mistreat diana I have read in either Randy's book or online. The performance of Diana Lucille and Dinah showed no strains in the tv performance however, I forgot what song she did on her own, but it was a great show and evident Ms. Ross was on her way.

[milven]

I don't remember reading about Lucy mistreating Diana. Does anyone have more info on this. I know that Lucille Ball was a perfectionist and many guest stars on her Lucy Show and Here's Lucy were surprised at how bossy she was.

[reese]

In one of J.Randy's books, he wrote that Lucy and Dinah "gave Diana hell", and took advantage of her inexperience with comedy. Of course, that doesn't mean it is true. Besides, I believe Lucy had a rep for being somewhat crabby anyway. On a positive note, there was at least one review that praised Diana as being the one "saving grace of an otherwise dismal special."

Dinah must have liked Diana enough to agree to write the liner notes for the "LET THE SUNSHINE IN" album, in which she praised Diana's talent and work ethic.

[George Solomon]

Miss Ross once told me herself that her experience with Lucy and Dinah was a good one. The "gave her hell" line just referred to... they worked her hard but she was up for it. She said she wasn't intimidated because they were all working hard to make it right. In fact the producer of the show told me that in the planning stages they all met at Lucy's house to discuss the special and all was very friendly. I was also told that Diana and Lucy had a friendly relationship after the special as well and Lucy was very impressed with her performance in Lady Sings The Blues. Dinah was also always in her corner.

[jillfoster]

That futuristic costume was horrendous. I like the way her hair is done, but she's far too skinny for something that revealing, and I find the design incredibly BUSY... if she was more covered up, and the outfit was simplified, then it would have come off much better. She's really good at these dance numbers, but there seems to always be something distracting you from her actual dancing. And those other dancers with the stupid feather vegas type headdresses looked ridiculous in something that was supposed to be futuristic and cutting edge. Raquel Welch's similar dance sequences in her special the next year came off much better.

[Kamasu_Jr]

Thanks George. Your comments make sense out of something else that could have been blown out of proportion. Diana Ross and the Laugh-In ladies also spoofed the Supremes on an episode that also aired in 1969 right before she left the Supremes.

[Penny]

Miss Ross once told me herself that her experience with Lucy and Dinah was a good one. The "gave her hell" line just referred to... they worked her hard but she was up for it. She said she wasn't intimidated because they were all working hard to make it right. In fact the producer of the show told me that in the planning stages they all met at Lucy's house to discuss the special and all was very friendly. I was also told that Diana and Lucy had a friendly relationship after the special as well and Lucy was very impressed with her performance in Lady Sings The Blues. Dinah was also always in her corner.

Thank you Mr. Solomon. That is good information.

I have heard she is broke so I have offered her one of my AVON routes. This is just proof she will work hard and be able to make it okay. I am happy to give up a route for her.

If she wears that outfit she will sell a lot of product. That will make us both good bucks.

Your friend;
Penny
AVON Rep.

[marv2]

In one of J.Randy's books, he wrote that Lucy and Dinah "gave Diana hell", and took advantage of her inexperience with comedy. Of course, that doesn't mean it is true. Besides, I believe Lucy had a rep for being somewhat crabby anyway. On a positive note, there was at least one review that praised Diana as being the one "saving grace of an otherwise dismal special."

Dinah must have liked Diana enough to agree to write the liner notes for the "LET THE SUNSHINE IN" album, in which she praised Diana's talent and work ethic.

Dinah Shore also had the Supremes on her shows several times in the 70's. She also had Mary Wilson on as a soloist, as well as Jean Terrell as a soloist. Marvin Gaye was on her show in the 70's along with the Miracles. Dinah supported all of the Motown Artists.

[captainjames]

Always the voice of reason and credible as well. Thanks George I value your input.

Miss Ross once told me herself that her experience with Lucy and Dinah was a good one. The "gave her hell" line just referred to... they worked her hard but she was up for it. She said she wasn't intimidated because they were all working hard to make it right. In fact the producer of the show told me that in the planning stages they all met at Lucy's house to discuss the special and all was very friendly. I was also told that Diana and Lucy had a friendly relationship after the special as well and Lucy was very impressed with her performance in Lady Sings The Blues. Dinah was also always in her corner.

[marybrewster]

While the above is a little over-the-top for even my taste, I can appreciate Diana's stepping out of the box and using the "Like Hep" appearance to tread some new water. This would have never worked for Diana and the Supremes; can you see Cindy Birdsong whipping her hair and body around, LOL.

If this was filmed/aired in the Spring of 1969, there had to be a clear indication that Diana was leaving the group shortly. Did Smokey or Martha ever do appearances like this without their respective groups?

[skooldem1]

Raquel Welch's similar dance sequences in her special the next year came off much better.

Why do you post in this soul forum how a white woman always does something better?

[revvy]

Diana just SCREAMS "STAR" in this performance. It was apparent the Supremes had their time in the sun and now it was time for Diana to go off on her own. Even Shelley Berger [[the Supremes' manager) stated on TV that it wasn't fair to Mary or Cindy to have Diana go off and do specials as a single artist while they waited around for her. The timing was right for her departure from the group. She was on fire!

[skooldem1]

She was so young and talented.

[jillfoster]

Why do you post in this soul forum how a white woman always does something better?

if you read my post, my criticizm is not with Diana's dancing, it's with the costume design and production. Both are pretty much equal as far as dancing talent... but Raquel's sequences had much more impressive location shots, better and more flattering costuming, and better choreography [[By David Winter)

[skooldem1]

You have got to be kidding. Raquel was always good to look at. I will give her that. I don't care who the choreographer was, Raquel's dance sequence was not good. It was very camp. She has no rhythm and is stiff. The one Diana did on "Like Hep" had better choreography and was executed better. You can't compare sets because one was inside of a studio and one was outside.

[jillfoster]

You have got to be kidding. Raquel was always good to look at. I will give her that. I don't care who the choreographer was, Raquel's dance sequence was not good. It was very camp. She has no rhythm and is stiff. The one Diana did on "Like Hep" had better choreography and was executed better. You can't compare sets because one was inside of a studio and one was outside.

Camp is good. And she's not stiff, it's just the style of choreography. Diana's Afro Vogue on TCB was much better, but once again, the flow was broken by those stupid ass still pictures. Just let the woman dance and don't INTERRUPT HER.

[Methuselah2]

Why do you post in this soul forum how a white woman always does something better?

Skooldem - Wait a second. Wait a second. Did you honestly think the reference to Raquel Welch had anything to do with Raquel Welch being white? Wasn't the mentioning and comparison specifically about 2 numbers that were similar in several ways? It seemed like a reasonable observation to me. I may have thought Diana performed better than Raquel but that's beside my point.

I can agree with you on one thing, though--some posts don't belong in this soul forum. Any forum.

[marv2]

Why do you post in this soul forum how a white woman always does something better?

She [[Raquel) did do it better and she was STACKED! Oh and technically, Raquel Welch is a Latina........

[skooldem1]

It is a pattern with that poster. No matter what soul song, or what performance, she always post of video of someone else and claims it is better, and yes many times they are white. The problem was not with Raquel, but with that person.

[skooldem1]

No problem. That aside, she and I have different views on what is good and I can accept that. To me like I said, Raquel's dance routine was not good at all. Diana and her dancers better executed the dance. It has more umf to it. Raquel's was not good and it was very camp. Yes camp can be good at times, but as far as the 2 routines. The Like Hep dance was much better.

[Methuselah2]

A fair rebuttal and clarification, Skooldem. I appreciate it. Thank you. But it could be possible that skin color doesn't factor into Jill's examples at all even though a case could be made otherwise. It's sometimes difficult to know things for sure.

[[Sorry for messing up the order of the posts. I tried to just completely re-post in time but I didn't quite make it.)

[skooldem1]

In her case No. I stand by what I said. However, I'd rather not go on and on about it. She and I appear to have moved on from that comment.

[skooldem1]

She [[Raquel) did do it better and she was STACKED! Oh and technically, Raquel Welch is a Latina........

Yes I did know that. But technically she is bi-racial. Raquel downplayed her latin ancestory. Some would say she tried to pass.

"Born Jo Raquel Tejada to a Bolivian father and an Anglo mother, Welch grew up in a house where her Latin ancestry was ignored. “This made me feel like there was something wrong with being from Bolivia,” states Welch in her 2010 memoir Beyond the Cleavage. When she arrived in Hollywood, film execs reportedly urged her to lighten her skin and hair. “She had to become white because that is what Hollywood knew how to sell,” explained Latino Images in Film author Charles Ramírez Berg. Welch later had an identity crisis. “I had no Latin friends,” she said. So, in 2005, she visited Bolivia to learn more about her heritage. In recent years, she’s also played Latino characters in various roles, including in Gregory Nava's series "American Family."

http://racerelations.about.com/od/ho...-Hollywood.htm

[jillfoster]

It is a pattern with that poster. No matter what soul song, or what performance, she always post of video of someone else and claims it is better, and yes they are always white. The problem was not with Raquel, but with that person.

Just give me an example. If I post a version that I think is better, it's because I think it is better, regardless of the color of the performer. Actually.. it's more likely due to production and instrumentation rather than the singer much of time... at least in my book. For instance, I think Gloria Gaynor's version of "Never Can Say Goodbye" is much better than the Jackson 5's version. I thought that Dottie West's version of "Last Time I Saw Him" is better than Diana's... but that's because that song sounds better as a country song. Just a few days ago, I said that Valerie Simpson's version of "Remember Me" is better than Diana's. Is Val white?

[skooldem1]

I'll edit my post to read "many times" instead of always.

[jillfoster]

I'll edit my post to read "many times" instead of always.

How generous. what a dunderhead. And you brought all that up when I wasn't even criticizing Diana, but the producer, choreographer, and the costume designer.

[skooldem1]

I think the choreographer did a better job on Like Hep. What's a "dunderhead". I've been called many things in my life, but have never heard that.

[skooldem1]

I looked it up.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/defin...erm=dunderhead

There are 6 definitions. Which one am I? Please don't say #5. I'll accept any of the other ones.

#5. Dunderhead
A person with a smelly and or dirty penis

[jillfoster]

#2 and #3 combo

[Methuselah2]

Looks like the conversation has come to a head. I'm just not sure which head.

[Methuselah2]

And to those of you who prefer an ol' smelly, dirty penis, I say,
"Hey. That's your right. That's your choice. So, let's keep chatting. But, perhaps, not over lunch."

[marv2]

Yes I did know that. But technically she is bi-racial. Raquel downplayed her latin ancestory. Some would say she tried to pass.

"Born Jo Raquel Tejada to a Bolivian father and an Anglo mother, Welch grew up in a house where her Latin ancestry was ignored. “This made me feel like there was something wrong with being from Bolivia,” states Welch in her 2010 memoir Beyond the Cleavage. When she arrived in Hollywood, film execs reportedly urged her to lighten her skin and hair. “She had to become white because that is what Hollywood knew how to sell,” explained Latino Images in Film author Charles Ramírez Berg. Welch later had an identity crisis. “I had no Latin friends,” she said. So, in 2005, she visited Bolivia to learn more about her heritage. In recent years, she’s also played Latino characters in various roles, including in Gregory Nava's series "American Family."

http://racerelations.about.com/od/ho...-Hollywood.htm

I never knew that. It was different time I guess. Thankfully woman of color such as J-Lo and others can be who they are today.

[marv2]

Just give me an example. If I post a version that I think is better, it's because I think it is better, regardless of the color of the performer. Actually.. it's more likely due to production and instrumentation rather than the singer much of time... at least in my book. For instance, I think Gloria Gaynor's version of "Never Can Say Goodbye" is much better than the Jackson 5's version. I thought that Dottie West's version of "Last Time I Saw Him" is better than Diana's... but that's because that song sounds better as a country song. Just a few days ago, I said that Valerie Simpson's version of "Remember Me" is better than Diana's. Is Val white?

Val is not white, but she did try to pretend that she wasn't Valerie Simpson one time a few years ago when we on a flight out of New York City LOL!

[thisoldheart]

ms. simpson also said she didn't sing on a number of very famous duets with mr. gaye!

[BayouMotownMan]

Well if Diana Ross was difficult, Lucille Ball could be considered monstrous. I love Lucille Ball and have read every book about her. Additionally, Little Ricky is from Louisiana and I knew his dad who reveled in telling Lucy/Desi stories. Ball was difficult for reasons different than Diana. Ball didn't achieve superstardom until she was in her 40s then had to fight to look young and beautiful on camera for 3 decades. Finally when she filmed Mame at 62, there was no more to be done to shave off the years. Additionally, Ball never got over the humiliations inflicted on her by Desi Arnaz.

Diana Ross lived up the task of taking on these seasoned pro's and likely, if anything, Ross was jealous of Diana's youth. Ball could not sing and dance. She proved it in Mame. If there was any problems it didn't show and Ross held her own with these two. That in itself was an accomplishment.

[nomis]

although Ross experienced no problems with Dinah and Lucy that cant be said for how The Supremes were treated by several other Hollywood legends on TV shows in the 60s..Bing Crosby was said to be particulary frosty to The Supremes when they appeared with him..

[Methuselah2]

Well if Diana Ross was difficult, Lucille Ball could be considered monstrous. I love Lucille Ball anId have read every book about her. Additionally, Little Ricky is from Louisiana and I knew his dad who reveled in telling Lucy/Desi stories. Ball was difficult for reasons different than Diana. Ball didn't achieve superstardom until she was in her 40s then had to fight to look young and beautiful on camera for 3 decades. Finally when she filmed Mame at 62, there was no more to be done to shave off the years. Additionally, Ball never got over the humiliations inflicted on her by Desi Arnaz.

Diana Ross lived up the task of taking on these seasoned pro's and likely, if anything, Ross was jealous of Diana's youth. Ball could not sing and dance. She proved it in Mame. If there was any problems it didn't show and Ross held her own with these two. That in itself was an accomplishment.

BayouMM - Side question re MAME: I've always heard that Madeline Kahn originally was cast as "Agnes Gooch" but fell quickly out of favor with Lucille Ball because she garnered very favorable attention by the cast and crew, and was replaced by Jane Connell at Lucille's insistence. Has that been addressed in any of your readings? Thank you.

[BayouMotownMan]

Yes, Madeline Kahn acknowledged on more than one occasion that Ball didn't like her and had her fired. This freed her up to do Blazing Saddles, a commercial hit. Kahn said the age difference between herself and Ball was the biggest problem.

[Kamasu_Jr]

But don't you find that most people who make their living making others laugh are pretty sad, miserable or grouchy people?

[BayouMotownMan]

Very true Kamasu. Loved by everyone as the Queen of TV Comedy, in real life Lucille Ball was OCD, a workaholic, rather cold and detached even as a mom and somewhat ruthless in her pursuit of perfection. After Desi Arnaz split she went thru directors like water because she always controlled everything. Lucie Arnaz described her mom as a control freak. When she wasnt working she was usually moody and depressed. The whole reason her husband Gary Morton pitched that ill-fated TV series Life With Lucy, when she was 75 years old, was because of her emotional state which was steadily declining as she went more and more into her elderly, non-productive years. The failure of this show did more to bring Lucy to her demise than it did to extend it. She never got over the cancelation of that show.

[Methuselah2]

Yes, Madeline Kahn acknowledged on more than one occasion that Ball didn't like her and had her fired. This freed her up to do Blazing Saddles, a commercial hit. Kahn said the age difference between herself and Ball was the biggest problem.

Very, very interesting. Thank you BayouMM. And thanks also for the perspective on LIFE WITH LUCY. I could never quite fathom why she did that show. As you pointed out, there are always things going on behind the scenes that contribute to--and even sometimes work against--attempts and decisions. I suppose no matter how seasoned a performer may be--or anyone, for that matter, no one's immune from circumstances and their own selves.

[milven]

Way off topic, but an interesting off topic. I found it sad to watch Life With Lucy. She was too old to be the Lucy character and it was embarrassing to watch her try.

In real life, she had a sarcastic wit. It could be seen on talk shows like Johnny Carson. She would have been better off giving up the Lucy character and trying something different. I always thought that she would have been terrific as Dorothy in Golden Girls. Both shows debuted at about the same time. She should have tried finding a show with a character similar to the the Dorothy Golden Girl character.

[jillfoster]

But don't you find that most people who make their living making others laugh are pretty sad, miserable or grouchy people?

Your'e right about this... and it's bizarre, isn't it? I think one of the few this doesn't apply to is Carol Burnett. Although she's had alot of tragedy in her life. Phyllis Diller didn't seem to be sad or grouchy, but Joan Rivers, while still hilarious, has changed. Her act is just seething with anger. I watched the first episode of Life With Lucy on youtube... after not seeing it for 25 years, I have to say, Lucy was not bad... the rest of the show was crap. Especially the actors playing her daughter and son in law.

[BayouMotownMan]

Life With Lucy debuted on ABC directly opposite The Golden Girls, NBC's big hit series. Lucy stayed with the Here's Lucy type of format with a lot of slapstick and outdated physical comedy. She was 75 years old and all that heavy makeup made her look mummified. The Golden Girls on the other hand were talking about sex and what it was really like get old in the US. Ball seemed more intent on trying to make us forget that she was old. The debut show landed in the Top 20 but it sank like a rock after. I'm hoping Life With Lucy is put on DVD along with the episodes that never aired.

[stephanie]

I remember an episode of Life with Lucy when she looked like she was jogging or something I dont remember the plot but she moved pretty well for someone her age.

[nomis]

I once did a 10 night gig opening an International Comedy festival doing my Whitney Houston show - i will say this for comedians - they dont know how to turn it off..that endless search to find humour and end with a punch line affects the fabric of their conversation - they are trying new gags on you wether you are aware of it or not..I was aware because I come from a rougher side of the sticks..these were people I was opening for who made quadruple what I do for shows and djing - so I was very aware of what I was saying to them and what they were saying to me because I wanted more work like this..all the ones i socialised with couldnt turn it off because stand up and comedy is one of the roughest of the arts - I put it up there with Opera - you have to go out on a limb everyday in your work..making people laugh aint easy..their work is intensly autobiographical and I think the stress of always searching for the next punch line leaves most of them on the edge and prone to depression...

[marv2]

I remember watching this show on TV, but I can't remember what the word "Hep" meant or stood for. Anyone know?

[nomis]

now your testing me Marv..it was discussed on my facebook page a few years ago but Im struggling to remember..I know it was a slang term in american culture years before 1969..

[zani57]

I've hesitated to wade in for fear of the usual....
But, here goes. "LIke Hep" was produced originally for NBC by the same people who produced "Laugh-In." Dan Rowan and Dick Martin were guests along with Lucille Ball Diana Ross. The star was Dinah Shore." [[The program would later be re-broadcast in the early '70s but on CBS.)
The opening number was titled "Like Hep" and featured Dinah, Lucy and Diana. This was before the days of VCRs. When I wanted to record/save something for posterity, I put my audiocassette recorder up to the TV set and recorded the audio of a show. I had the cassette for a number of years and then my sister's kids destroyed a lot of my audiotapes.
I remember parts of the opening number. Lucy was there to inject the comedy and she was talking with Dinah and Diana and saying that that sounded really "hip." And Dinah said, "Oh, no, Lucy, we're so far out, what with granny glasses and [[forgive me I think she might have said long dresses or maxi's), we're going all the way back to being HEP!" Cue music.
The lyrics were things, "To be Like Hep is bold and new, sort of old and new, Hep will blow your mind..." etc. It wasn't Holland-Dozier-Holland. It was classic 60s TV. During the song, there would be little skits with Dinah and Dan Rowan, or with Diana and Dick Martin, illustrating that they were so beyond hip, that they were "like hep." And then the song would end and
I imagine you've heard the old expression that someone was a real "hepcat." That was a term probably first used in the 1930s to say someone was really "with it" or "all that."

[SupremeBoy]

This was the period where you just knew Diana was leaving The Supremes. She did this special as a solo act and she also appeared by herself on "Rowan & Martin's Laugh-In" as well as a Bob Hope special.