Diana Ross & The Supremes, Andantes, Waters etc.........

[supremester]

When More Hits Deluxe was released, we learned that Mary & Flo are not on the 45 and panic ensued amongst the ranks. During Christmas last year, a few members had stopped playing Merry Christmas - some after decades of listening because it was confirmed Mary & Flo aren't on it. I don't understand it. What is the thought process? I love Miss Ross, but still like JMC's first few singles and other Rossless Supremes stuff.


What about Up The Ladder? The Andantes are on it and all over Right On!

Now Country, Western & Pop, Liverpool and Sam Cooke are rumored to be readying for release as well as, GULP, A' Go Go - which may have fans suicidal. Plus- Love is Here & HDH is more of the same, cuts on Reflections..... where does it end?

Is there any issue with the fact that Mary specifically mentioned in her book that after Flo left, Motown had producers use The A's "to get the public used to just Diane's voice...." Who does this slight-of-hand bother, if anyone? I mean, it's all entertainment - even Mary's book....it's not all true, but makes a good listen or read.

[smark21]

Well the damage has been done. I don’t think much Supremes music will be played at Avon parties.

[jobeterob]

Penny will advise if there has been a music switch at the Avon Parties. Likely the Christmas CD is still played.

The music is still the same music we always played and heard.

The Supremes and Diana are now oldies music; for most of the world this was irrelevant. For Mary, she was pissed for some years between 1980 and 2002 when she realized she would have to make a career out of something that didn't include hits and would be much less than her tenure as a Supreme - but she got over it.

A few fans filled their pants, both front and back, over this - the couple of guys on here that are Ross haters, but the world moved on.

Beyonce has become the replacement and is a real media and eye catching icon. I can't believe all the publicity, complete with Ross mentions, that she is getting.

[supremester]

OK, I'm just trying to understand. So, Ross haters will take cherished music and throw it in the dust bin if they find out The A's are on it? No more Stop! or Love Child???
A' Go Go has A's all over it...........what's going to HAPPEN????????????
I could live without Stop! if I had to, but I'm being burried with my Love Child 45 - even if I learn that the A's are not on it and it's really Mary & Cindy - I'll be OK with it. Now, if someone told me Endless Love wasn't really Miss ross, I'd be relieved as I haven't played it in decades.

[marv2]

For Mary, she was pissed for some years between 1980 and 2002 when she realized she would have to make a career out of something that didn't include hits and would be much less than her tenure as a Supreme - but she got over it.

That is not true. Mary does not and has never felt that way. She has a glorious career going on till this very day. Why you persist in maligning her this way, is beyond me!

[jobeterob]

That is not true. Mary does not and has never felt that way. She has a glorious career going on till this very day. Why you persist in maligning her this way, is beyond me!

It's not maligning her at all. Mary did not have hits Marv. She did not sell records or CDs on her own. Many people didn't. It's not a life threatening disease.

She made a career but unfortunately for you, it has been modest and she isn't that well known other than as a Supreme. And she has made a lot out of that.

What's the big deal?

[floyjoy678]

Andantes all over A Go Go? Where at? Besides "Put Yourself In My Place", "Come and Get These Memories" and "You Can't Hurry Love"?

[marv2]

It's not maligning her at all. Mary did not have hits Marv. She did not sell records or CDs on her own. Many people didn't. It's not a life threatening disease.

She made a career but unfortunately for you, it has been modest and she isn't that well known other than as a Supreme. And she has made a lot out of that.

What's the big deal?

Here's the big deal. Mary Wilson is the Co-Founder of one of the most successful groups in music history and that is not enough?
You sound like someone without good sense or is so far out of touch with reality that you could not understand that most artists would kill to accomplish what Mary Wilson has in her 50 plus year career. It's not about just selling some records .That's kid stuff now. She has a new recording on the market right now some 54 years after her first recording in 1959..... and still making audiences happy around the World. Now that is the big deal.

Oh yeah she also just finished filming a new movie in October and has opened her Mary Wilson collection exhibition at the African American Museum in Philadelphia~! In December her face graced the cover of a commemorative magazine sold in mainstream stores from Coast to Coast......Oh yeah, that is a pretty big deal anyway you look at it.

[skooldem1]

I thought it was ALL about selling some records? Good to know that's just kid stuff now.

[marv2]

I thought it was ALL about selling some records? Good to know that's just kid stuff now.

Yeah, selling records means a lot of marketing and promotion usually supported by a company. The things Mary Wilson has accomplished in her career have come mainly from her own efforts and talent and not from some corporation pushing her.

There have been some pretty talentless folks that have sold "records". Mary is much, much more than a "recording artist".

[franjoy56]

as far as I'm concerned Mary and Flo are on the sitnof 45 just with another voice, which in my opinion ruins the sound which is too raw, the unreleased version with just mary and flo in the bkg sound better. the andantes on "UP the ladder to the roof" if true is a minor fluff because Mary and Cindy are upfront on that record doing their bits. Mary Wilson had a top twenty record as a Supreme with "Floy JOy" which hit #5 r&b #16 Pop and that record wasn't even promoted, the Andantes all over A Go Go thats a new one. and of late Mary Wilson name is quite known without the Supremes being attached to it. I like the sound of the Andantes, but they can never replace the sound of the Supremes, and when they did four of their singles from 67-69 with them featured failed to make the top20 the public was not fooled.

[jobeterob]

Well, they are not on the 45, Fran, whether or not it sends a few people over the deep end.

I actually agree with Marv that Mary has accomplished a lot ~ she has survived and she made a career; but it wasn't one made of hit records; she had none on her own and that's how it played out. But she is 68, she still does appearances and she is doing the gown exhibit, was an Ambassador and was in the most successful female group of all time.

Here's the big question: Marv suggests I malign Mary. Now that is the pot calling the kettle black. The Master Maligner of All Time Marv2 ~ suggesting someone is maligning someone else.

Now that is a good one!

[jillfoster]

OK, I'm just trying to understand. So, Ross haters will take cherished music and throw it in the dust bin if they find out The A's are on it? No more Stop! or Love Child???
A' Go Go has A's all over it...........what's going to HAPPEN????????????
I could live without Stop! if I had to, but I'm being burried with my Love Child 45 - even if I learn that the A's are not on it and it's really Mary & Cindy - I'll be OK with it. Now, if someone told me Endless Love wasn't really Miss ross, I'd be relieved as I haven't played it in decades.

I don't listen to the 60's Supremes album cuts much because they are just weak for the most part. "I Hear A Symphony" and "Reflections" is pretty decent, but A-Go-Go is just dire. The 70's Supremes albums are great, but previous to that, they were a bunch of filler with only a gem here and there. A far cry from the quality of albums like "Dance Party", and "Watchout".

[marybrewster]

It's the same old song.

[jillfoster]

It's the same old song.

Keep in mind, that Mary herself holds the same opinion... that Martha's albums are much stronger than the 60's Supremes albums.

[Methuselah2]

OK, here's an interesting tidbit for you in case you might have missed it:

On Dec. 18th of last year, which was the second evening of an exclusive NIGHTFLIGHT Radio Show conversation with The Andantes' Louvain Demps, the issue of STOP! was brought up for a second time with Louvain. She had discussed that The Andantes had, at times, appeared and recorded at some sessions along with the other artists and that they also recorded their parts separately with backing tracks or such at other times. How their parts were used, how they ended up, etc., from any of their sessions was completely outside of their involvement and knowledge. The released version of STOP! was then played for Louvain and she confirmed that The Andantes are on it. But she also mentioned that it sounded to her that Flo was on it, as well. She was being very careful about her assessment--and it was her opinion that she was also hearing Flo's voice in the mix.

The first evening of her NIGHTFLIGHT conversation--dated 12/11/12--is available in 3 parts to hear at:

www.womr.org
under the heading WOMR LINKS and WOMR'S SPOKEN WORD PODCASTS.

As of the last that I've heard, the second evening of Louvain's NIGHTFLIGHT conversation--12/18/12--is said to be forthcoming to the same location. And some other great NIGHTFLIGHT podcasts are already there.

[skooldem1]

I remember listening to that, and at the time it seemed to me that the version that was played was the one from "The Supremes #1's", because it had the acapella ending which was not the released version. Unless it was one of his mixes of the released version. I'd have to listen again to be sure.

[franjoy56]

I remember listening to that, and at the time it seemed to me that the version that was played was the one from "The Supremes #1's", because it had the acapella ending which was not the released version. Unless it was one of his mixes of the released version. I'd have to listen again to be sure.

Methus said the following:The released version of STOP! was then played for Louvain and she confirmed that The Andantes are on it. But she also mentioned that it sounded to her that Flo was on it, as well. She was being very careful about her assessment--and it was her opinion that she was also hearing Flo's voice in the mix.

He did not say anything about a version from the #1's. I have been hearing Flo's voice in that mix ever since i bought the record in 1965
did you hear that Jobete straight from the mouth of one of the glorious singing Andantes she is hearing Flo in the mix!!!!!!! STOP!!!!! AND LISTEN AGAIN.

[skooldem1]

I listened to the show live when it originally aired. How many times does it have to be said that there are many versions of that song?? Yes she said she heard Flo. I also remember, and perhaps I am wrong, but the version he played ended acapella. Unless that was one of his remixes, that is not the released version that has been in question. I have been meaning to ask him, but haven't gotten around to it.

[jobeterob]

I listened to the show live when it originally aired. How many times does it have to be said that there are many versions of that song?? Yes she said she heard Flo. I also remember, and perhaps I am wrong, but the version he played ended acapella. Unless that was one of his remixes, that is not the released version that has been in question. I have been meaning to ask him, but haven't gotten around to it.

Some people don't like that possibility which is what the words in the Expanded Edition say.

I heard that there were going to be more comments in I Hear A Symphony about who is "not" on some of the songs but they decided not to go down that road after all the anxiety the Stop comments caused.

[jillfoster]

Some people don't like that possibility which is what the words in the Expanded Edition say.

I heard that there were going to be more comments in I Hear A Symphony about who is "not" on some of the songs but they decided not to go down that road after all the anxiety the Stop comments caused.

And that is all they are... WORDS. An opinion or judgement from a person who wasn't even born when the songs were recorded. Because it appears in print in a CD booklet, doesn't mean it's gospel.

[marv2]

And that is all they are... WORDS. An opinion or judgement from a person who wasn't even born when the songs were recorded. Because it appears in print in a CD booklet, doesn't mean it's gospel.

Jill remember you are talking to a lawyer. 3rd and 4th party opinions are facts to him! Mary Wilson has said that both she and Flo are on that record!

[nomis]

Gordy backed down when Flo complained of extra voices on "the Happening" he erased the extra voices to keep group harmony [[wishful thinking)..as for the Christmas LP its long been an established fact that Mary and Flo went on vacation for most of the recording time..leaving Diana to go on record bitterly complaining she was recieving no extra income for doing most of the work...

[jillfoster]

Gordy backed down when Flo complained of extra voices on "the Happening" he erased the extra voices to keep group harmony [[wishful thinking)..as for the Christmas LP its long been an established fact that Mary and Flo went on vacation for most of the recording time..leaving Diana to go on record bitterly complaining she was recieving no extra income for doing most of the work...

And on the Christmas album it's obvious. And on the Happening... the record is all the better for it.

[franjoy56]

And on the Christmas album it's obvious. And on the Happening... the record is all the better for it.

The same can be said for You Keep Me Hangin On, Come See about Me, Baby Love, Back In My Arms & Long Gone Lover, "A Bit of Liverpool" .just to name a few.