Jean Terrell lps and backgrounds

**sup_fan** · 09-29-2010, 01:09 PM

on facebook, several of us have been chatting about Bridge Over Troubled Water from new Ways and the great Cindy lead lines on there. dialog evolved into a discussion of some of the backgrounds to other Jean Terrell era songs and who sang what. figured it would be a good thread here

note - this is NOT intended to start up the hate about why the Andantes were used, if that meant producers didn't like mary or cindy or any of that garbage. this is really more about discussing the topic and sharing information

Right On
I know the Andantes are on at least 4 tracks here. Then We Can try Again, Wait a Minute, I Got Hurt Trying to Be and Take a Closer Look at me. anyone know if these are Andante only tracks or are M&C also on some?

New Ways
I believe Clay used other backing vocalists on many of his tracks and the voices on Is There A Place sound different so i'm assuming that's not M&C. I've also wondered about segments on Stoned Love. on verse 2, "Say It LIke it is" in the backgrounds sounds like it might be andantes.

I will also add here Cindy's great lead lines on Bridge. love this version. kinda heavy on production but still great. do wonder what it would have been like if they'd gone with a simpler track, less overly-dramatic orchestration. more accoustic. keep it simple

Touch
Of course Time and Love. I've also heard about another vocalist on Nathan Jones. Some people have questioned if some of the vocal layers on Touch are Andantes. I think it's just multiple vocal tracks of MJC

Floy Joy
lots of additional vocals here. but which and where?

Jimmy Webb - are Mary and Lynda even on this one? lol just kidding. but the choral backgrounds are so overwhelming. like my comments on Bridge, i think many of these songs would have been even better had they gone with simpler arrangements

**reese** · 09-29-2010, 03:37 PM

TIME AND LOVE was produced by Bones Howe for Diana's first solo album. When his productions were shelved, the track was given to Jean and she sang over it.

In an interview, Clydie King says that she sang on NATHAN JONES.

The Blossoms were additional background vocalists on the Jimmy Webb album.

If memory serves me correctly, the Andantes' book mentioned that they also contributed vocals to the Supremes/Tops albums.

**bradsupremes** · 09-29-2010, 04:55 PM

I have a feeling Mary & Cindy are on "Then We Can Try Again," because Midnight Johnny did a remix of the song a while back and in it you could hear Mary & Cindy buried in the background especially the part where they sing "So I've giving you some time / To decide things in your mind." I think there are several other songs where the Andantes were mixed in with Mary & Cindy. Even with the 60's recordings, there are some songs where they added the Andantes with Mary & Cindy's vocals [[ex. "Stay In My Lonely Arms," "The Nitty Gritty," the Funny Girl LP.)

There is definitely an extra voice in "Nathan Jones," which has been stated that it is Clydie King.

I think the Andantes were added to "Touch."

**jobeterob** · 09-29-2010, 06:41 PM

Thanks for reminding me to put Right On in my truck CD player.

I think you are right that some of the songs on New Ways But Love Stays and Jimmy Webb would have sounded a lot better if some of the elements were dropped. And of course, Jean had a great voice and did a wonderful job on lots of those early songs but having her stretch her voice where she did wasn't a great idea. No one ever did that to Diana or Aretha.

The reason I think your suggestion is a really good one is because this is what was done to I Want A Guy on the Meet the Supremes Expanded Edition. That was a song on which I thought Diana / the Supremes / the whole record sounded way too high pitched and screechy. On the Expanded Edition, there is a solo Diana version and it is far superior to the song recorded by the Supremes; it is an excellent recording. Without a lot of the clutter that was there on the Supremes version, they've turned a modest song into a really good one.

**sup_fan** · 09-29-2010, 08:51 PM

yeah sometimes less is more. now i love all of the vocal layers in the ending of Touch [[which i still believer are just MJC). and Stoned Love is great too, although frankly it's borderline overproduced too. wonder what an acoustic or slow version would sound like. jean is an excellent vocalist - imagine a simple soft track like I guess I'll Miss The Man.

arrangements are so very important to the overall impact. look at the live version of Everybody on Glen Campbell vs the record. live one is much better IMO. same with the live version of I Want a Guy. much improved

topdiva1 · 09-30-2010, 07:55 PM

It appears that Mary and Cindy got a lot of fame and money for very little recorded singing. I suspect they both did more singing than they will ever be credited for. All those long hard years of touring the world, and singing nightly must count for something.

Producers do what producers due to enhance the product - however Mary and Cindy had to duplicate whatever they did or did not do in the studio live - and from what I can see they did it very well.

**marv2** · 09-30-2010, 07:59 PM

Jean Terrell says she never worked with the Andantes. She only sang with Mary and Cindy in the recording studio.

topdiva1 · 09-30-2010, 08:03 PM

Originally Posted by marv2

Jean Terrell says she never worked with the Andantes. She only sang with Mary and Cindy in the recording studio.

From my research on Frank Wilson - I believe he was a purist and only used Mary, Cindy, and Jean to prove that the Supremes were indeed talented. The Frank Wilson stuff is this trios all time best - most sexy - and emotional - letting all the ladies shine .

**marv2** · 09-30-2010, 08:07 PM

Mary, Cindy and Jean were the Supremes Dream Team! They sounded so good together on just about everything they recorded. Frank Wilson has said that he only used the REAL Supremes on his work. Eddie Holland said the same thing when discussing their work with the original group.

topdiva1 · 09-30-2010, 08:26 PM

Originally Posted by marv2

Mary, Cindy and Jean were the Supremes Dream Team! They sounded so good together on just about everything they recorded. Frank Wilson has said that he only used the REAL Supremes on his work. Eddie Holland said the same thing when discussing their work with the original group.

NOW there you have it.

**bradsupremes** · 10-01-2010, 12:34 PM

I always felt that Frank Wilson was the group's second best producer, HDH being the first. Frank really brought a lot out of the girls in those recordings from 1970-1971 and made them sound like a group again [[something missing since Florence left the group.) I think if Frank rearranged the tracklist for "New Ways," took out a couple of songs, replaced them with several vaulted tracks and kept the original title of "Stoned Love" that the album really could have been a great concept album.

topdiva1 · 10-01-2010, 07:55 PM

New Ways - was a hit - without - the help of Gordy - he wanted the supremes to fail.

**sup_fan** · 10-02-2010, 09:58 AM

topdiva - i'd disagree with you a bit on New Ways. it SHOULD have been a hit. but a pop chart position of 68 doesn't really signify a home run to me. and with the hugeness of Stoned Love, it should have gone higher.

Brad - you're dead right. Na Na Hey Hey would have worked better IMO on Right On. New Ways had the potential to be the Supremes' Still Water lp

I've also had my doubts about the "urban legend" of the LP not being named Stoned Love because of all the hype and problems with the title of the single. Both the lp and the single were released in 10/70. While i don't have a specific date for the lp release date, even if it was 10/31/70 you can still back up a time line that puts it in development far before Stoned Love was ever a single. the time it takes to print the graphics, press the wax, do those fancy die-cuts on the cover jacket, etc, you simply can't we doing that 2 days prior to the release. that means this record was in the planning and development stages [[guessing) in Sept or even Aug. again, way before Stoned Love was released as a single causing all of the controversy. So i think the story of Motown renaming the lp at last minute out of nervousness and ditching the 'fro cover design is a myth. Certainly possible that Mary wasn't thrilled with the package from the beginning and in hindsight thought they could have done something else.

useyourchucklemuscle · 10-09-2010, 11:37 AM

Originally Posted by marv2

Jean Terrell says she never worked with the Andantes. She only sang with Mary and Cindy in the recording studio.

Perhaps she did, buttt, often the lead vocals were recorded separately to backparts so any number of ladies could've been added later. I do know that Clydie King, Venetta Fields and Sherlie Matthews [[the fabulous Blackberries) all claim to have sang backpart for the 70s Supremes songs, so it makes me wonder if the songs Jean recorded as a possible solo artist and then used as Supremes recordings were those with Clydie, Venetta and Sherlie. After all, they were the backparters for her solo album on A&M too. It seems that by the early 70s, the Andantes had been usurped by the Blackberries as filler material for Miss Ross among others!

topdiva1 · 10-09-2010, 12:37 PM

Does Jean Terrell have any tour dates coming up - what has she been doing? What a great voice - Jean should be out there.

**marv2** · 10-09-2010, 12:53 PM

Jean Terrell says that she never was intended to be a solo artist at Motown. She was signed to be a member of the Supremes and anything recorded while there was for the Supremes. Could it be that these women you mentioned recorded background vocals that were never used other than as demos to teach the songs to Mary Wilson, Cindy Birdsong and Jean Terrell when they came off the road to do their recordings?

Frank Wilson [[their principle producer at that time) said he only used the Supremes on his productions.

**luke** · 10-09-2010, 08:26 PM

If Motown wanted to call New Ways, Stone Love they would have. If Motown wanted to put that magnificent pic of Mary, Cindy and Jean in turtlenecks[[not pic on back)on the cover, they could have. But then again maybe the" new " Supremes had been a little too successful out of the gate. Just wondering. lol

**marv2** · 10-09-2010, 08:33 PM

Come on Luke you know what you just said is the truth, the facts, why be coy about it? LOL!!! Those women were digging gold bricks at the start of the 70's. There was no other female group that even came close to Mary, Jean and Cindy.

**captainjames** · 10-09-2010, 10:41 PM

I never understod the hype about the cover of "New Ways" because the ladies do appear on the cover with "FRO'S" and with an added touch of class in the other smaller pictures surrounding it. In Fact if they had of used the back of "New Ways" as the cover it would have resembled the same format as "Right On" with the same type of picture. With the third album they came back again with the same BIG picture of the three on the cover. It was at this time that I said can't they come up with something a bit more creative.

**luke** · 10-09-2010, 10:43 PM

Now Marv y would Motown do a thing like that? wink wink

topdiva1 · 10-09-2010, 11:05 PM

On the Frank wILSON PRODUCED MATERIAL YOU ARE GETTING mARY, cINDY, AND mISS jEAN tERREL AT THEIR BEST!!!!

**marv2** · 10-09-2010, 11:56 PM

Originally Posted by topdiva1

On the Frank wILSON PRODUCED MATERIAL YOU ARE GETTING mARY, cINDY, AND mISS jEAN tERREL AT THEIR BEST!!!!

....and that is ALL you are getting. No Blossoms, Bugs or Andantes hehehehehe!

**marv2** · 10-10-2010, 12:02 AM

Originally Posted by luke

Now Marv y would Motown do a thing like that? wink wink

You know I was thinking about that on train the other day before a presentation I had to give. Maybe Motown was soooooooo afraid of ........jepoardizing it's wholesome, squeaky clean image that they went with the "cartoon like" cover instead of the "Black Pride" cover which was WAAAYYYY too heavy, too strong for 1970? 'Cause there is no way they would possibly want to trip up their flagship group the Supremes, right?

**marv2** · 10-10-2010, 12:42 AM

Look here, the Jean Terrell, Mary Wilson, Cindy Birdsong and Frank Wilson team was so good it was ridiculous! LOL!!!
Check it out, a simple album cut like "Love It Came to Me This Time" is a mini-masterpiece!

**marv2** · 10-10-2010, 12:51 AM

Originally Posted by captainjames

I never understod the hype about the cover of "New Ways" because the ladies do appear on the cover with "FRO'S" and with an added touch of class in the other smaller pictures surrounding it. In Fact if they had of used the back of "New Ways" as the cover it would have resembled the same format as "Right On" with the same type of picture. With the third album they came back again with the same BIG picture of the three on the cover. It was at this time that I said can't they come up with something a bit more creative.

The "Fros" photo as you put it was absolutely stunning! So stunning that newspaper and magazine articles were written about THAT photo. After which a whole host of performers began to copy it for their own records and promotion. In the television program "Good Times" that photo appears on the wall of the children's bedroom. At the time we all considered it breathtaking, three beautiful, natural Black women that sang like angels! We had grown tired of the "Ed Sullivan Show image" bullshit! Had they used the back cover as the front, the Supremes would have had to hold a news conference! LOL!

useyourchucklemuscle · 10-10-2010, 01:49 PM

Originally Posted by marv2

....and that is ALL you are getting. No Blossoms, Bugs or Andantes hehehehehe!

Yet, Nathan Jones was produced by Frank Wilson and Clydie King claims to have been added to the mix!
Perhaps we'll never know the truth of it!

**sup_fan** · 10-10-2010, 01:55 PM

i'm sorry - i just dont really hear an additional voice on nathan. i know everyone talks about her being on this one, but i'm going to rely on my own ears and assume it's just MJC

**luke** · 10-10-2010, 02:10 PM

I would believe Mary and Jean per Nathan. Marv well said. Havent hear Love it came to me for ages. Jean beyond superb and something truly magical when Mary and Cindy put their voices together.

**bradsupremes** · 10-10-2010, 04:00 PM

I can hear Clydie on "Nathan Jones."

**skooldem1** · 10-10-2010, 04:48 PM

I never understood how some think that something was wrong with the album name. As if changing it to Stone Love would have changed the outcome. Same thing with the photo. I just can't believe that fans of the music would change their mind about buying the album because of the cover photo.

phyl · 10-10-2010, 04:57 PM

Originally Posted by luke

I would believe Mary and Jean per Nathan. Marv well said. Havent hear Love it came to me for ages. Jean beyond superb and something truly magical when Mary and Cindy put their voices together.

you got thatr right i love jena mary and cindy they were great surpemes.

phyl · 10-10-2010, 04:58 PM

Originally Posted by marv2

....and that is ALL you are getting. No Blossoms, Bugs or Andantes hehehehehe!

you go that right it was just he suprmees and thats all theat was needed. the andeants pisse me off and those bitches cna go to hell.

**marv2** · 10-10-2010, 08:30 PM

Originally Posted by useyourchucklemuscle

Yet, Nathan Jones was produced by Frank Wilson and Clydie King claims to have been added to the mix!
Perhaps we'll never know the truth of it!

She may have been on a demo.

**marv2** · 10-10-2010, 08:32 PM

Originally Posted by sup_fan

i'm sorry - i just dont really hear an additional voice on nathan. i know everyone talks about her being on this one, but i'm going to rely on my own ears and assume it's just MJC

I've never heard another voice on that record either.

**marv2** · 10-10-2010, 08:33 PM

Originally Posted by bradsupremes

I can hear Clydie on "Nathan Jones."

I never heard her and I bought that record when came out in '71. What does she sound like?

**marv2** · 10-10-2010, 08:35 PM

Originally Posted by skooldem1

I never understood how some think that something was wrong with the album name. As if changing it to Stone Love would have changed the outcome. Same thing with the photo. I just can't believe that fans of the music would change their mind about buying the album because of the cover photo.

It's called MARKETING! It is a fact that consumers will by pass a great product that has bad packaging.

**captainjames** · 10-11-2010, 12:46 AM

To my ears I definetely hear another voice there and I remember at the time there was talk that Jean was threatening not to record. It you listen real close she is singing almost right under Jean. At the time I use to play the record right on top of the record and it almost brought in a Tornado effect and I always wondered why was Motown almost drowning out their singing.

**marv2** · 10-11-2010, 12:57 AM

My question is, if she this woman Clydene is on the record [[which I do not believe) with Jean, Mary and Cindy, then why put her there if you have to strain to listen very very closely to even hear her? It doesn't change the sound of the record. Did they have her go out on the road with them to perform it live in concert so as to not loose that studio sound? LOL!!!!!

We're busy people and were in 1971 when the record came out . We listened to it on the radio, in the car and sometimes at home while we did other things and no one I knew would stop and ask, " I wonder if that is Clydene singing right underneath Jean Terrell and Mary and Cindy doing Nathan Jones?" LOL!!!!

**marv2** · 10-11-2010, 01:02 AM

Here's "Nathan Jones" a great song. I have to laugh because Jean and Mary don't seem to remember this woman Clydene recording it with them. I don't know what she sounds like, but I do know what Jean, Mary and Cindy sound like and here THEY are:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKU8TVXqI4o

**captainjames** · 10-11-2010, 09:30 AM

Well, I know Clydie King has mentioned that she sings on Nathan Jones, I would like to see where its written that Mary, Cindy and/or Jean say she is not on it.

topdiva1 · 10-11-2010, 11:10 AM

It seems so many singers want to claim that they sang for Mary and Cindy - so what was Mary and Cindy getting paid for - when they reportedly seldom sang - I do not believe this is so true.

**luke** · 10-11-2010, 11:25 AM

Now Marv come on--the Blossoms, Blackberries, Waters and Andantes are all on Nathan Jones. I can clearly hear Fanita,Julia, and Clydene!!!

topdiva1 · 10-11-2010, 11:35 AM

Wow!!! you got a real good ear.

**captainjames** · 10-11-2010, 01:34 PM

Well it seems that The ladies say they were ripped off and not given their just pay for the hits they recorded so perhaps this is the reason why,,,,,"They weren't on those records".

**marv2** · 10-11-2010, 02:08 PM

Originally Posted by luke

Now Marv come on--the Blossoms, Blackberries, Waters and Andantes are all on Nathan Jones. I can clearly hear Fanita,Julia, and Clydene!!!

You cannot, now stop it Luke! LOL!

I use to work with this guy that "heard voices" too. He ended up in the psych ward at Bellevue, hehehehehe!

**marv2** · 10-11-2010, 02:11 PM

Originally Posted by captainjames

Well it seems that The ladies say they were ripped off and not given their just pay for the hits they recorded so perhaps this is the reason why,,,,,"They weren't on those records".

That's not true. Mary said that she got paid what she was suppose to. It was the contract that they signed that was viewed as substandard.

**marv2** · 10-11-2010, 02:15 PM

Originally Posted by luke

Now Marv come on--the Blossoms, Blackberries, Waters and Andantes are all on Nathan Jones. I can clearly hear Fanita,Julia, and Clydene!!!

I thought I heard Bugsey Siegel and James Brown on the background too chanting "you've been gone tooo lonnggg....." But I was mistakened , hehehehehehe.....!

**captainjames** · 10-11-2010, 02:28 PM

I would love to read where Mary and Cindy said they are the only ones in the bacground or was that made up too.

useyourchucklemuscle · 10-11-2010, 03:11 PM

Originally Posted by captainjames

I would love to read where Mary and Cindy said they are the only ones in the bacground or was that made up too.

LOL!
There are a few here who would gladly write that ONLY Flo, Mary and Cindy EVER sang backpart for Miss Ross or Ms Terrell, that Marlene did NOT sing with Mary on THAT #1 hit [[and others according to the God-fearing Louvain), that Frank Wilson NEVER used any other vocalists and that Louvain, Jackie, Marlene, Pat, Pam, Joyce, Telma, Diane, Julia, Maxine, Darlene, Fanita, Jean, Clydie, Venetta, Sherlie and any woman who happened to be passing the studios on any given day between 1961 and 1973 and roped in to sweeten, accentuate, fill-out or just plain replace THE GIRLS are all liars and will burn in Hell!