Motown Unreleased MP3's are NOW available!

[calvin]

Try 7-digital http://www.7digital.com/artist/vario...rc=live-search

They are also 320kbps. Up for £7.99

Got it, thanks booty!

[booty]

Calvin. What is the sound quality like from 7-Digital and their 320kbps format? The Amazon downloads average only 160kbps.

[copley]

Calvin, please say if that download is jump free in particular track #18?

[calvin]

Just some first technical remarks, I hope I'll have more time to comment on the music later...

Yes, I bought "Guys, Vol. 1" from 7digital. [[Thanks again for the tip, booty! I don't normally buy downloads, I prefer physical cds, so I had never heard of 7digital.) Initial remarks:

Yes Copley, the two defects you mention above in tracks 13 and 18 are there, as you described.

The one in track 13 sounds like a tape glitch. There were other glitches in the 5 other download albums, unfortunately I didn't make a note of them when I heard them . I think they were in
Jazz Vol. 2, track 5 - Beans Bowles, Fly Me to the Moon
Jazz Vol. 2, track 8 - Johnny Griffith Trio, Willow Weep For Me
Gospel, track 15 - The Gospel Stars, He Will Bring Everything Out All Right
Girls, track 12 - Hattie Littles, Strange Is My Love For You
This is from memory, I hope I got the right tracks.

I guess the tape glitches were already there in the masters they started with at Hip-O, and there was nothing they could do about them. I'd rather have these tracks with the glitches than not have them at all, so I'm not complaining, just remarking.

In track 18 of Guys, Vol. 1, Marvin Gaye's "Out Of This World", at 0:51 you suddenly hear a few seconds of the Contours "That Day When She Needed Me." Was that on the original tape [[how could that happen?) or was it a mistake in the mixing that was done for these new releases?

Now, I'm happy to have these new downloads and I bought "Guys, Vol. 1" knowing in advance that there are defects, and I'm fine with it. If Hip-O continues this series with other years I will also buy those.

There was discussion in earlier posts about why these were not released on physical cds. I would guess there are at least a couple of reasons. First, these are of more limited interest than the normal Hip-O releases, and they wouldn't sell enough to justify the extra costs of physical cds. Second, Hip-O cd releases are known for being very high quality, and I can understand why they wouldn't want to "taint" the excellent reputation of Hip-O cds with tracks of inferior audio quality. But I'm just guessing - it would be great if someone from Hip-O could join and give more information about this.

I also wonder if Hip-O might want to issue some kind of disclaimer with these downloads, a sort of warning. As I posted earlier, "Guys, Vol. 1" is no longer available on amazon.co.uk. I asked Amazon about it and got an email response that it was deleted, but they didn't tell me why. I guess that some people may have complained to Amazon and perhaps asked for refunds [[as there was one review online that slammed the quality). I'm afraid that if this happens too much it might not bode well for possible future releases.

[calvin]

Calvin. What is the sound quality like from 7-Digital and their 320kbps format? The Amazon downloads average only 160kbps.

Booty, this is an apples & oranges comparison, because I downloaded five mp3 albums from Amazon and a different one from 7digital. But I feel that if the 7digital has better quality, being at a higher bit rate, it is not significantly better.

Amazon uses the LAME 3.97 encoder [[one can see this in the file properties). This is an excellent encoder and it is not the source of the glitches. [[Though LAME 3.97 is a bit old, I think from 2007 or so, the latest version is 3.99 - I don't know why Amazon has not upgraded). They do the encoding at a variable rate [[VBR). If you encode at 256 kbps VBR it means that the highest bit rate, when the music information is at its "richest", will be capped at 256 kbps, but this bit rate will be reduced below 256 at parts of the music where the encoder can achieve savings in file size with very little or no loss in sound quality [[I can't say how "very little" is defined). When Amazon says they encode at at least 256 kbps, they actually mean at least 256 kbps variable. I have a small number of downloads from Amazon, in some I can see a max bit rate of 256, in others 320. I can't tell if these Motown Unreleased were done at 256 or 320 variable - I just sampled a few songs by playing and the highest bit rate I saw was 201 - and if it never even reaches 256, it doesn't really matter if they do it at 256 kbps VBR or 320 kbps VBR.

What this means is that the original source, before the compression was done, was not highly "rich" in information. This is not uncommon for older, mono recordings, though I guess the Complete Motown Singles from 1959 would come out at a somewhat higher average bit rate if compressed in the same way.

The 7digital mp3 album was encoded at 320 kbps CBR [[constant bit rate, so 320 all the time). Other things being equal, if you don't care about the difference in file size [[and I don't), you would rather have this than 256 kbps VBR or even 320 kbps VBR. But 7digital doesn't give information about which encoder was used so I can't really say that other things are equal.

All in all, I'm not convinced that the difference between 7digital and Amazon is significant, but if I hadn't already bought the other 5 on Amazon I'd probably buy them all on 7digital. But I'm not going to buy those 5 again for a very small improvement which is probably barely noticeable, if at all.

[copley]

Thanks Calvin. I do hope that UMe continues issuing more unreleased tracks. I do think that the 'Guys Vol 1' track 18 problem should have been addressed before the release. If it couldn't then at least let customers know about the issue. I only buy mp3s when there is no other option so an very inexperienced. I bought my downloads from Amazon UK. When I found the glitches I wasn't sure if it was my problem, theirs or UMe's! Anyway I reported and got a refund from Amazon for 'Guys Vol 1'. Will buy it again if the track 18 problem gets resolved.

[calvin]

Yes I agree with you Copley, UMe should fix track 18 of "Guys 1" if possible, and I hope someone in this forum will alert us if it happens. If it's not fixable, please tell us, that's ok too but it would be nice to know.

[booty]

I hope you have now deleted guys volume 1 from your hard drive and cloud drive after receiving the refund Copley!!! Thanks for the info on the MP3 quality Calvin. My hearing is deteriorating these days so I don't think I would be able to tell the difference of something transferred at 64kbps let alone 256kbps against 320kbps!

[lakedistrictlad1]

I have just sent a message to 7 digital re the defective tracks and I'm waiting to hear back from them.

I really hope there's a way around this problem and everyone who has purchased 'Guys 1' can get replacement mp3's. I was so enjoying Marvin singing 'Out of this world'.

[booty]

Does anyone have the track annotations to these titles as yet?

[danman869]

Happy New Year, everyone!

Does anyone know if 7-Digital [[UK and/or US) have responded about the defective tracks? Their website preview of Marvin Gaye's "Out Of This World" still has the bleed-in of "That Day When She Needed Me" on the track. I hope it's just an MP3 creation issue and not a master tape situation, but... if it's the latter, at least we'd have it.

I want to download these sets, but I want to be certain I'm not wasting my money and time. I'm kind of disappointed we haven't heard anything from UMe about any of this--from the status of releasing PDF track annotations to the digital flaws. I do worry that these will somehow go away before they can be downloaded. Any info about availability time frames [[if any)?

If anyone is in the US an interested in downloading from 7-Digital, here's a link to all the sets released to date [[plus a few others that turned up in the search), click here.

[lakedistrictlad1]

@Danman I'm still waiting to hear back from 7digital [[U.K). I've just sent them another message. It is really frustrating paying for 'dud' goods and not getting any response.
Perhaps this issue needs to be put to Universal direct and cut out the middle man. But who to contact at Universal? Harry or Andy - I suspect not, but perhaps they could comment on this problem.

[mr soul]

It looks like the volumes "Motown Unreleased 1962: Guys Vol 1 & 2 are longer available to buy on the Amazon Uk site. I wouldn't have thought a download only release would've been deleted so soon.

[snakepit]

Anybody know of an outlet selling CD-r's of these.............Motown/Umg/Amazon don't deserve much better do they?

[calvin]

It looks like the volumes "Motown Unreleased 1962: Guys Vol 1 & 2 are longer available to buy on the Amazon Uk site. I wouldn't have thought a download only release would've been deleted so soon.

I mentioned in an earlier post that Guys Vol 1 was deleted by Amazon UK some time ago. I emailed them and they confirmed that it was not a mistake, it was deleted, though they didn't say why. I suspect it was because there were many complaints about it and some were asking for refunds.

I just checked Amazon UK, Guys Vol 2 is still available.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Motown-Unrel...39539&sr=301-1

I bought Guys Vol 1 from 7Digital. It's still available there [[as all the other titles are, in 320 kbps) - if you want it, you might want to get it while you still can.
http://www.7digital.com/artist/vario...rc=live-search

I didn't ask for a refund, I bought it knowing there were problems. I guess there was nothing they could do about the tape glitches, but I do wonder about the flaw in track 18 where the Marvin song is briefly interrupted by a few seconds of the Contours "That Day When She Needed Me." I wish that someone from Universal could tell us something about this.

Also I hope that the complaints/refunds don't prevent future volumes in this series.

[snakepit]

I'd like these sets but I don't want any hassle with downloads etc. Don't know anything about 7digital.....I could cope with MP3 to CDr. and would attempt them ....but all this just seems to be too much trouble.....and presumably the music appeals to people nearer to 60 than 20!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[lakedistrictlad1]

Calvin - I received a response to my email to 7digital today thanking me for bringing the problem to their attention. They have refunded me my money and taken the set offline until they receive a fixed edition.

So by all means send them a message. You shouldn't have to pay for faulty goods from any shop. And it does sound like now the problem has been brought to their attention [[and Amazon's) that we should all be able to download a fixed edition in the future. but don't pay twice!!

[danman869]

Calvin - I received a response to my email to 7digital today thanking me for bringing the problem to their attention. They have refunded me my money and taken the set offline until they receive a fixed edition.

So by all means send them a message. You shouldn't have to pay for faulty goods from any shop. And it does sound like now the problem has been brought to their attention [[and Amazon's) that we should all be able to download a fixed edition in the future. but don't pay twice!!

Thanks for the update LDL1, I just checked 7digital US and they still have 1962 Guys Vol. 1 up and available--and containing the same flaw in the Marvin Gaye song! Despite the seeming likelihood that the two sister sites would be sourcing from the same music server [[or at least communicating amongst divisions of the company), the preview still plays with the Contours "butting in."

I'm Tempted [[ha!) to buy the set, e-mail 7digital US about the flaw, and then ask them whether they'll just give me a free copy of a corrected track if/when Universal provides them with one.

Does anyone remember the e-mail address at Universal Music that we've been given in the past to report problems with releases? This particular flawed track is everywhere--Amazon, iTunes Store, 7digital UK & US... Perhaps if UMe knew about it [[I'd hope they already knew and were working on a replacement, but...), they'd fix it and provide retailers with a correction.

[copley]

UMe/Harry do know about all the flawed tracks and have known since day one.

[danman869]

Copley, would you tell me where he posted about it here on SDF? Or, if via private e-mail, what his response to the situation was and if they are planning to resolve the issue[[s)? Thanks.

[calvin]

UMe/Harry do know about all the flawed tracks and have known since day one.

Copley, have you heard something new? In a previous post you said that you weren't sure if the problem was Amazon's or Universal's. Now it seems clear that it's not Amazon's, since downloads from other sites are the same. But the question remains - was that flaw in the Marvin Gaye track on the master, so unavoidable for the release, or was it a mistake made in preparing this release? I can't believe they would knowingly release it that way unless it was on the master and they're just releasing it "as is."

[jsmith]

OK guys ... can those Forum members who know ...... recommend which are the [[say) best dozen of the tracks now available ... from both a musical & glitch free perspective .....
I haven't the time to wade through them all & as I hardly ever play stuff I've previously downloaded [[play CD's & vinyl still nearly 100% of the time), only want to buy 'the cream' of what has been made available.
Hopefully a CD containing the best of all these tracks will eventually be made available & I'll buy that and actually play it lots.

[Roger Polhill]

I`m very happy with the URM1962 series. It is a shame about the glitches but I would not be without these tracks.Let`s support this venture and try to encourage UME to release more.
Robb K I have the other version of "Remember Me" .Let know if you would like a copy.
Regards Roger.

[stingbeelee]

From today's New York Times...
Sony issues Dylan CD's to extend copyright. In an unusual response to provisions in a new European copyright law, scheduled to take effect by 2014, Sony Music has released a compilation of early Bob Dylan recordings that is bound to become one of his most collectible albums "The 50th Anniversary Collection...only about 100 copies of the four CD set were produced...
At the end of the article it says...But Sony is not alone. Universal, which owns the Motown catalog, has released a series of jazz, gospel and rhythm and blues albums under the rubric "Motown Unreleased 1962" which makes a large body of its unissued archives eligible for the European copyright extension.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/08/ar...ight.html?_r=0

[MrTopCat]

All the albums are on Spotify. Just started listening to the Gospel one and there's a jump on the first song - Don't Give Up [[The Burnadettes) right at the beginning of the song.

[booty]

If what was in the NYT is correct then I suppose we'll have to wait until the end of the year to get the next batch - 1963!

[calvin]

Universal, which owns the Motown catalog, has released a series of jazz, gospel and rhythm and blues albums under the rubric "Motown Unreleased 1962" which makes a large body of its unissued archives eligible for the European copyright extension.

Very interesting. I wonder, does the "use it or lose it" copyright provision extend to future years? Will the *unreleased* 1963 recordings fall into the public domain at the end of this year, so we might see a 1963 set of "Motown Unreleased" in December? Or is it just simply 70 years copyright starting with 1963?
Well I'm glad that Universal didn't go the Sony/Dylan route and release such a small number that few get it - though I understand that the Dylan set is now being illegally distributed through the internet, which was predictable given how Sony did it.

[honest man]

[Hello lovely people,i found a site last week that had recording dates info for these songs,can't find it now,does anybody have the info, it is out there,would you post on SDF please,and thank you folks,

[Kamasu_Jr]

Attachment 5763
I didn't mean that the Jazz or Gospel cuts were "dregs". Motown never attempted to release the mass of vaulted jazz or Gospel. So, these cuts include some of Motown's best vaulted material in those genres. I was only referring to the songs by their major artists on these lists [[Marvin Gaye, Martha & Vandellas, Contours, Temptations, Miracles, etc. If any of these cuts had been outstanding, it would have been released on CD already. Even "Remember Me" by The Creations would have already been released on "Cellarful" had it not had that "skipping" or "sticking" defect. It was their best Motown recording. We had it slated for release on a later "From The Vaults" album, hoping that someone could locate a clean tape of it [[without a defect). Maybe the fact that they have uploaded the defective recording of it indicates they haven't found a non-defective recording of it. But, because they know that the hard-core fans will want to hear it regardless of defects, they can afford to put it on MP# download, but would not "taint" a commercial CD with it, as there would be too many complaints, and not enough people would want it that way?

Good points Robb. I've just gotten into downloading and I downloaded some of this previously unreleased material and I wasn't knocked out by it. Some of it was crude and raw. But I liked some of the Hattie Littles stuff.
I think Motown or Hip O could have done another Motown blues disc and used some of Hattie's tracks, some of Sammy Ward's stuff, some Amos Milburn and included bluesier, released Motown tracks like I Call It Pretty Music by Stevie Wonder, You'll Lose A Precious Love by the Temptations, etc.

[Cadeho]

Bump! I just downloaded all of these sets this morning after seeing the Guys volume 1 disappear from Amazon, I figured I'd jump on them as I've watched them fro months until I had a little extra to spend. I got Guys vol 1 from iTunes. I came here to see if it was just me, but I see it wasn't! I wouldn't mind better versions, but if that is what is there, then I am happy. I won't ask for any money back or throw away whole sets because of one, two, or three songs. If you have to download them again, one, two, or three tracks at 99¢... not bad, just add them to the rest! But I am glad I'm not the only one... I swore I looked at my ipod as though it was a Walkman!

[lakedistrictlad1]

Thanks for the update LDL1, I just checked 7digital US and they still have 1962 Guys Vol. 1 up and available--and containing the same flaw in the Marvin Gaye song! Despite the seeming likelihood that the two sister sites would be sourcing from the same music server [[or at least communicating amongst divisions of the company), the preview still plays with the Contours "butting in."

I'm Tempted [[ha!) to buy the set, e-mail 7digital US about the flaw, and then ask them whether they'll just give me a free copy of a corrected track if/when Universal provides them with one.

Does anyone remember the e-mail address at Universal Music that we've been given in the past to report problems with releases? This particular flawed track is everywhere--Amazon, iTunes Store, 7digital UK & US... Perhaps if UMe knew about it [[I'd hope they already knew and were working on a replacement, but...), they'd fix it and provide retailers with a correction.

Danman, I bought the set from 7-digital, then emailied them to tell them about the glitches. I got my money back. They said nothing about looking into the problem, which has obviosuly started with Universal. I'm surprised Harry and the team at Universal have stayed quiet on this subject.
My advice would be to buy it but email 7-digital for sure. You should get a credit or your money back.

[psychedelic jacques]

the thing that struck me about these releases last December was the complete lack of advance information/promotion by anyone from hip-o/universal. I think the first most of us knew of them was this very thread posted by Xtown, after he'd seemed to stumble accross them.

In light of this, i am wondering if there are any plans to continue the series at the end of this year with a set of 1963 tracks, or whether it was just a one-off concept. It would be great if Harry W or someone 'in the know' could give us a bit of a heads up on this.

[berry101]

Hi Mark. Me too. I got mine from HMV's Vault.......