The Supremes Christmas Album

[Penny]

I am listening to it tonight as I decorate my home for the next AVON party. I am laying out my collection of Cape Cod AVON dinnerware in lovely ruby red glass [[candlesticks too!). It makes for a beautiful place setting for my AVON customers and their friends. My lovely forest green Fostoria glassware adds such a nice Holiday touch to the table.

But now that I have come here and found out that it is just the Andantes singing on this album and not Florence and Mary I could just kill myself.


Penny

[jobeterob]

Hey Penny: I have the answer. Be like Marv and pretend. Or find out what kind of delude pills he takes and maybe you can get a prescription. Seems to work for him. Go ask for some "deludes"!!!

[marybrewster]

But now that I have come here and found out that it is just the Andantes singing on this album and not Florence and Mary I could just kill myself.


Penny

When we have young men and women overseas during the holidays, putting their lives on the line, and yes, sadly, losing their lives for our freedom, you'd kill yourself over a Supremes LP?

Your talk of suicide bothers me, Penny. I went online and found a few numbers for you: 1-800-273-TALK and 1-800-SUICIDE. I pray you're able to get through this troublesome time.

Fondly,

MB

[Starguard4]

...found out that it is just the Andantes singing on this album and not Florence and Mary I could just kill myself.


Penny

Get a grip, girl... or jump off the bridge without making so much darn fuss about it. Or now I think about it, perhaps the "deludes" might be the better option LOL. Yep, go see the shrink.

[kenneth]

I still want to know if it was really Joy, Berry and Terry Gordy singing on "Children's Christmas Song" or if it was the Andantes, or Little Andantes, or some other frauds! I demand to know!

[jobeterob]

Hopefully, Penny was being overly dramatic, like a good Avon lady can. I overlooked that line of her post; Mary, thanks for drawing it to our attention. But I'm pretty sure Penny was just "making a point" about the tricks that were played on the fans.

Probably by this era, the true participants have been revealed.

[marybrewster]

Hopefully, Penny was being overly dramatic, like a good Avon lady can. I overlooked that line of her post; Mary, thanks for drawing it to our attention. But I'm pretty sure Penny was just "making a point" about the tricks that were played on the fans.

Probably by this era, the true participants have been revealed.

You could be correct, and I sure hope so. However a person talking of killing themselves should never be taken lightly. I understand "making a point", but seriously, to suggest suicide over a Supremes record?

[marv2]

Hey Penny: I have the answer. Be like Marv and pretend. Or find out what kind of delude pills he takes and maybe you can get a prescription. Seems to work for him. Go ask for some "deludes"!!!

Don't worry about it. The only songs played at my house from those sessions are "Silent Night" and "Oh Holy Night" both led by Florence Ballard!

[jboy88]

Don't worry about it. The only songs played at my house from those sessions are "Silent Night" and "Oh Holy Night" both led by Florence Ballard!

So technically, Mary is the only one not heard on the album! I wonder what they did that caused the producers to scape off Flo and Mary from the background?

[jobeterob]

I don't think the Supremes were scaped, scraped, or scrapped from the sessions. They just weren't there and HDH were comfortable with that.

Penny........come back and talk to us!

[skooldem1]

There are some real gems, some real classics on that album. The Christmas season officially is under way when I'm either driving, or shopping and hear "Silver Bells" or "White Christmas".

[marv2]

I don't think the Supremes were scaped, scraped, or scrapped from the sessions. They just weren't there and HDH were comfortable with that.

Penny........come back and talk to us!

That's funny because HDH had nothing do with that album. It was produced by the late Harvey Fuqua.

[jobeterob]

Then Harvey was comfortable with it.

Here is another Christmas Present for you Marv. I know you'll park this amongst your favorites!

Courtesy of the TMX Website. You'll love the part about "Diana Ross is considered to be the most successful female vocalist of the 20th Century". They must have come up with that especially for you!


Diana Ernestine Earle Ross [[born March 26, 1944) is an American singer and actress. Ross served as lead singer of the Motown group The Supremes during the 1960s. After leaving the group in 1970, Ross began a solo career that included successful ventures into film and Broadway. She received a Best Actress Academy Award nomination for her 1972 role as Billie Holiday in Lady Sings the Blues, for which she won a Golden Globe award. She won 8 awards American Music Awards, garnered twelve Grammy Award nominations, and won a Tony Award for her one-woman show, An Evening with Diana Ross, in 1977. With a career total 18 #1 records, Diana Ross is considered the most successful female recording artist of the twentieth century. In 1976, Billboard magazine named her the "Female Entertainer of the Century." In 1993, the Guinness Book of World Records declared Diana Ross the most successful female music artist in history due to her success in the United States and United Kingdom for having more hits than any female artist on the chart. Ross is one of the few recording artists to have two stars on the Hollywood Walk of Fame—one as a solo artist and the other as a member of The Supremes. In December 2007, she received a John F. Kennedy Center for the Performing Arts Honors Award. Diana Ross has sold more than 100 million records worldwide.

[Penny]

I don't think the Supremes were scaped, scraped, or scrapped from the sessions. They just weren't there and HDH were comfortable with that.

Penny........come back and talk to us!

I am fine. I was just trying to be funny and make a point.

Suicide wasn't an option until I heard their were Andantes on "Right On!" That just about pushed me over the Motown edge.

LOL!

Penny

[jobeterob]

I knew you were making a point!

You have taken this news of Diana singing alone much better than some!
As Barney and Berry said, we were to believe what they told us to believe.

[blueskies]

When I bought this Christmas LP as a kid, I immediately thought.....'this doesn't sound right'. Even as a kid, I suspected something was rotten in Denmark [[or was that Motown?)

[jobeterob]

This is one of the Supremes best selling LPs ever.

I'm sure that when Berry and Motown saw how Stop in the Name of Love sold and how this album sold..........and when they didn't have any Supremes on them............that's when the business of "we'll put anyone on these songs that we want" started.

It was not until years and years later that word got out about who sang on these singles and albums and some of the biggest sellers were the ones with "unknown" artists on them.

[jboy88]

I can see the logic in the Supremes not being on the Christmas album. Coming off a string of hits, they were likely too busy with promotions, tours and TV apperances. As far as the recordings after, I always figured the Andantes were used somewhat as a last resort/punishment. Whenever Flo and/or Mary gave the producer a hard time, he'd just send them home.

[Penny]

I knew you were making a point!

You have taken this news of Diana singing alone much better than some!
As Barney and Berry said, we were to believe what they told us to believe.

Jobeterob, yes I am learning to live with the truth. It is hard. Some days are more difficult then others. But even learning the truth I still love all the Supremes each and every one.

I have learned from you, thank you. And I have learned from REDHOT so I plan on staying positive about the Supremes. Just like my AVON!

your AVON friend,
Penny

[jobeterob]

You're a good lady and we enjoy you very much.

[floyjoy678]

So technically speaking Mary was the only one absent from the sessions. There are background vocals on "Silent Night" but I'd say more than likely it's the Andantes. I remember reading that a few other women sang with the Andantes, I think Telma Hopkins was one of them.

[Jimi LaLumia]

as said above, even as teenagers, when we heard those background vocals, we knew something wasn't right, that couldn't possibly be Florence and Mary doing all that.. but we didn't have the internet back then, we enjoyed the records, and the world kept spinning

[antceleb12]

So technically speaking Mary was the only one absent from the sessions. There are background vocals on "Silent Night" but I'd say more than likely it's the Andantes. I remember reading that a few other women sang with the Andantes, I think Telma Hopkins was one of them.

I would bet all my money on it that it's the Andantes. None of those ladies sound like Mary or Diana, nor does it sound like Mary and Flo on the other tracks.

Now I'm not sure, but I've read that Florence & Mary did record background parts, but either that the Andantes were multitracked with them, or the producers just scrapped Mary & Flo entirely and just used the Andantes. I thought I could hear Mary & Flo on one of the tracks, but I could just be drumming it up in my mind.

[marv2]

Mary Wilson and Florence Ballard did participate in the sessions for the Supremes "Merry Christmas" album.

[jobeterob]

Mary Wilson and Florence Ballard did participate in the sessions for the Supremes "Merry Christmas" album.

That was one of those dream things you've had going on Marv; not Mary and Florence, no no.

You need to listen to Andy and George sometimes and read their liner notes. It takes nothing away from Mary; she's ok with it; they send her all the product too and she participates in some of it.

But in the 60's, I've would have believed it too.

[marv2]

That was one of those dream things you've had going on Marv; not Mary and Florence, no no.

You need to listen to Andy and George sometimes and read their liner notes. It takes nothing away from Mary; she's ok with it; they send her all the product too and she participates in some of it.

But in the 60's, I've would have believed it too.

They were involved in those sessions dumbass. The songs they recorded were not included on the original album. They were released years later.... in 1999. The best song that came out of those sessions was Florence Ballard singing "Oh Holy Night". There's a thread about it here.

[stephanie]

Joy to the World sounds like Diana Ross and the Detroit Choir. With the exception of Little Bright Star and Santa Claus is Coming to Town this album is maudlin to me. I much prefer the Temps christmas album. Even as kids we knew something was up as the above posters have stated. This is one of those instances where I REALLY missed Mary and Flo and knew it at the time. I prefer Dianas christmas songs with the tenors in the 90s. Listening to this album is hard for me because its like the Mike Curb Congregation is in the background or the King Family. I know the album sold a lot but its not my cup of tea. If Flos songs had been on here at least it would have felt more like a group album it never did to me. However [[are you listening Jobeterob?) I love Dianas album A Very Special Season. I like Ross solo efforts without background when it comes to her Christmas stuff and I can only take so much of that. When she is LIVE singing her Christmas songs I cant get enough of it.

[skooldem1]

Sounds like no one [[Supreme Fans) can enjoy the album now. Its a good thing that it continues to sell to people that aren't so invested in who sang background. When I hear on the radio "White Christmas", " Silver Bells" and "My favorite things", I truly enjoy it and don't worry about who sang on the session, and who didn't. It's not like the album was recorded by 3 random chicks. At least you have the lead singer singing. I'm still baffled that fans of any group- even groups today, actually think that the people singing in the background on recordings, are really "group" members. I realized many years ago that this is just not the case.

[jobeterob]

Ross's Christmas album is great; but I'm not sure it sold a lot in the USA anyway. It's still good.

The Supremes album was supposed to have sold 3 Million copies and it continues to sell. I like it a lot as well.

It would be really interesting to know if Motown actually paid any royalties to the "Supremes" for this because they didn't appear; or if they just kept them in their Motown pockets and failed to contribute them to the Museum as Mirage keeps telling us. The could have contributed them to the Funk Brothers; or Universal could give them the $25000 for the Hollywood star, even now.

Of course, they will never do that because it would start a precedent.

[marv2]

Ross's Christmas album is great; but I'm not sure it sold a lot in the USA anyway. It's still good.

The Supremes album was supposed to have sold 3 Million copies and it continues to sell. I like it a lot as well.

It would be really interesting to know if Motown actually paid any royalties to the "Supremes" for this because they didn't appear; or if they just kept them in their Motown pockets and failed to contribute them to the Museum as Mirage keeps telling us. The could have contributed them to the Funk Brothers; or Universal could give them the $25000 for the Hollywood star, even now.

Of course, they will never do that because it would start a precedent.

They had to pay them all because it was in their contract. They could not be replaced on recordings according to their contracts with Motown. So Motown had to pay!

[R. Mark Desjardins]

A colorful twist to this seasonal favorite!

[Jimi LaLumia]

I still enjoy this album very much:
I always thought of it as a Diana Ross 'tour de force'....I still do..

[kenneth]

Love the red vinyl copy! I can't read the label, but I'm guessing it's from somewhere in the Far East, maybe China or Korea. They seem to do a lot of colored vinyl, and usually the album jackets [[like this one here) seem flimsier.

[supremester]

God bless you, Marv - PLEASE don't ever change! This post was my Christmas present from you - THANK YOU!

Have a happy, happy holiday season!

From All Of Us At The White House,

Barack, Michelle, Diana & The Andantes

Don't worry about it. The only songs played at my house from those sessions are "Silent Night" and "Oh Holy Night" both led by Florence Ballard!

[supremester]

Well, that's only partially true. Any recording on which they appear is guaranteed a royalty.
When The Supremes, or Diana Ross & The Supremes appeared on vinyl after 1965, each group member was part of the split that went into The Supremes Inc or DR&TS Inc accounts. Before that, technically, if The Andantes were used, as they were sometimes, Mary, Flo, Barbara or Betty could be left out. My guess is that the girls may not have always been paid everything that was due to them. Also, Mary, Flo, Cindy, Barbara and Betty were charged for sessions through the group account even if The Andantes were used, and the group paid for their services as well. Additionally, tracks cut by producers and tried on several acts [[The Nitty Gritty for example) were billed to both DR&TS AND Gladys' group. Motown collected for the sessions more than once - sometimes more than twice. The groups never knew. Think of this: During "The Ross Years" The Supremes sold roughly 35 million singles and 35 million albums - in the USA. They worked non-stop. How do you think The DR&TS account, when closed, had less than $500,000.00 in it????????? "Baby, baby, where did our dough go?"


Also, it is NOT in their contract that they could not be replaced on recordings. It is never addressed period. It does allow for group members to change within the framework of the group.

They had to pay them all because it was in their contract. They could not be replaced on recordings according to their contracts with Motown. So Motown had to pay!

[supremester]

I hope no one ever tells you that AVON Fosteria glassware is really Home Interiors' Cambridge Collection - only in green.

As for Merry Christmas - I don't care if it's Moms Mably and Marjorie Main on it - if I like the sound, I like the sound! Think of what gifted vocalists The Andantes are that they could replicate the Supremes' sound so well - as well as The Marvelettes and sometimes even The Vandellas. Their work on Love Child is among the best bgs I have ever heard by anyone.

[snakepit]

Just received the re-packaged CD with bonus tracks.
1965 saw several 'novelty' LP projects issued.DRATS were obviously very busy doing TV work etc. Motown saw the opportunity to cash in on another 'novelty' LP. The Christmas LP was recorded in LA....with vocals in Detroit. In was a business move....who knew how long Motown/DRATS were to survive in in the cut throat world of the 'pop' business. Time constaints meant that this LP, amongst other work, was a "cut and paste" job....Nobody knew that 50 years later these records would be of interest.

[jobeterob]

It's the 50 years that makes for the continuing buzz.

The bottom line is that the "girls" that worked with Diana were lucky to have worked with her. They managed to parlay that into some kind of career and Diana's stardom and paid the bills for the girls too. And kept the interest up for 50 years.

[smark21]

Of course Diana needed help as well to get to stardom. She was no songwriter or producer. Who knows if she would have gotten on the road to superstardom if HDH weren’t there at Motown?

[Jimi LaLumia]

well, The Beatles records flopped when first released here in 1963; everyone needs things to fall into place..but not everyone is so obviously destined for stardom..Motown had no other star on the level of Diana Ross, no one..there's a reason why the biggest star in pop history, Michael Jackson, wanted to be her, and went out of his way to sound [[and later) TO LOOK LIKE HER..

[jobeterob]

Poor Michael; what a heck of a sad life.

[supremester]

Most certainly. Very few make it without anyone's major help. Babs, Judy, Beatles, Celine etc. Every star I can think of, but, giving someone the platform AND material to allow them to shine still requires their ability to transform all of that help into public acceptance. She's a star. Lots of people have talent - some more "talent" but that ability to draw people to you, that's a star. That's what record, TV, movie and Broadway producers want. They don't give a crap about anything but the bottom line. Diana's work on Ed Sullivan grew to enormous proportions. That's why she still sells out globally, got TV specials whenever she wanted, movies, broke box office records in two NY venues among others, hosted the Oscars after just one film - she's a star. Not everyone likes her - or anyone. Columbia records could put Aretha or Edye Gorme over in a big way, try as the might, but Babs, who Columbia was initially iffy about - took off. She's a star and her manager did everything he could for her. Aretha got Jerry Wexler or she might still be signing Al Jolson songs. You gotta have the platform, but the public don't get fooled. They may buy your 45, but don't expect them to buy the album or concert ticket - especially decades after your last hit. JMC had Frank Wilson - arguably the hottest producer at Motown [[after Norman Whitfield) they launched their killer first single on Ed Sullivan, did Gil's amazing medley is stunning new red outfits - they were perfect, but I was left kind of empty still. Something was missing: a star. They had great records and sold singles, but their album and concert intrest dwindled to danger levels - in spite of the numerous TV appearances. Ya gotta have a star - with talent. JMC only had talent. Miss Ross once said at the end of her 25th standing ovation of the night in 1995 "There's a lot of pretty good singers you have seen tonight. The reason you're here, is Berry Gordy." Watch her Friday night. She's 68, with a broken ankle - all you'll see, is a star - who now is a legend.

Of course Diana needed help as well to get to stardom. She was no songwriter or producer. Who knows if she would have gotten on the road to superstardom if HDH weren’t there at Motown?