People live at the Roostertail 1966

smark21 · 11-27-2012, 09:02 PM

**skooldem1** · 11-27-2012, 09:27 PM

That's awful. Mary sounds ok, but it's like she is trying to sing it like Diana. I like Flo, but vocally, she is so overrated.

smark21 · 11-28-2012, 08:35 AM

I think Mary sounds good, but Flo's part lacks confidence. Then again, the arrangement on this song is just so dreary.

**JohnnyB** · 11-28-2012, 10:36 AM

Originally Posted by smark21

I think Mary sounds good, but Flo's part lacks confidence. Then again, the arrangement on this song is just so dreary.

The thing I find most interesting about the inclusion of People in the 1966 Roostertail show is the fact that books have been written about the tragic and evil methods used to undermine Flo, including pulling People from the act in 1965. We were told the song was a showstopping performance and that she never sang the song again as a Supreme, it now belonged to Diana. Maybe my ears are deceiving me, but I hear Mary and Flo sharing lead vocals, not Diana. And what I heard on the Roostertail set was a nice rendition, but not the show stopper I'd read about all these years. Interesting...

**skooldem1** · 11-28-2012, 10:58 AM

I always cringe when they all scream that last note. That is just the worst.

**skooldem1** · 11-28-2012, 11:04 AM

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

The thing I find most interesting about the inclusion of People in the 1966 Roostertail show is the fact that books have been written about the tragic and evil methods used to undermine Flo, including pulling People from the act in 1965. We were told the song was a showstopping performance and that she never sang the song again as a Supreme, it now belonged to Diana. Maybe my ears are deceiving me, but I hear Mary and Flo sharing lead vocals, not Diana. And what I heard on the Roostertail set was a nice rendition, but not the show stopper I'd read about all these years. Interesting...

I know many times these Motown stories get repeated in book after book with no truth to them. Anyone know where that lie originated from?

**reese** · 11-28-2012, 11:50 AM

Originally Posted by skooldem1

I know many times these Motown stories get repeated in book after book with no truth to them. Anyone know where that lie originated from?

The first time I recall reading the "PEOPLE taken away from Flo and given to Diana" story was in Nelson George's book on Motown. It was also included in Mary's first book, and of course, Tony Turner's ALL THAT GLITTERED. Tony's book had a rather comical scene of Flo storming out of rehearsal at the Copa and dodging traffic all the way back to her hotel. None of the books mentioned that if the song was indeed taken away it was also given back.

Supremes' musical conductor Gil Askey has said that the song was taken out of the show when Flo was hoarse and said she couldn't do it, and Diana suggested replacing it with the "Symphony medley", but that would have been much later.

**Roberta75** · 11-28-2012, 12:01 PM

Originally Posted by reese

The first time I recall reading the "PEOPLE taken away from Flo and given to Diana" story was in Nelson George's book on Motown. It was also included in Mary's first book, and of course, Tony Turner's ALL THAT GLITTERED. Tony's book had a rather comical scene of Flo storming out of rehearsal at the Copa and dodging traffic all the way back to her hotel. None of the books mentioned that if the song was indeed taken away it was also given back.

Supremes' musical conductor Gil Askey has said that the song was taken out of the show when Flo was hoarse and said she couldn't do it, and Diana suggested replacing it with the "Symphony medley", but that would have been much later.

Tony Turner have about as much credibility as Dick Cheney. Both men wouldnt know the truth if it was standing in front of them.

Roberta

**blueskies** · 11-28-2012, 01:11 PM

Top Diva Tony Tuner was a hot mess. I think a lot of myth devoped over the years about the greatness of Flo's vocals. She certainly added a lot to the group....but, as a solo artist...no.

**Glenpwood** · 11-28-2012, 02:22 PM

Tony's books were written with a view of taking a lot of the minor things he witnessed that were a level 2 or 3 minor issue and turning them into a level 12 Man Down cussing up a storm everyone hates each other and Flo drinks until she passes out event. Doesn't he claim in Glittered Mary didn't remember much of her Supremes years so she visited a hypnotist? Not to mention he killed off Tommy Chapman in a pool hall shooting that never occurred for dramatic impact. Tony jumped on the bash Ross bandwagon just like a lot of other authors in the eighties and got his check even if ultimately it's led to the catfights outlasting the spotlights in the publics eyes today....

**rod_rick** · 11-28-2012, 04:28 PM

Originally Posted by skooldem1

That's awful. Mary sounds ok, but it's like she is trying to sing it like Diana. I like Flo, but vocally, she is so overrated.

Don't think Mary is trying to sound like Diana at all just think she was trying to add her own flavor to the song. All theversion of People I've heard the song was more of a group offering than a Flo solo. I'm also thinking maybe the song was taken out on Flo's last Copa run with the Supremes not in 1965.

As far as Flos vocals, she had potential as they all did but she needed a producer to develope her sound like they did for Diana. Remember she didn't sound the best in the begining either.

**skooldem1** · 11-28-2012, 05:09 PM

I didn't mean that she was actually "sounding" like Diana but that her phrasing sounded like Diana. She sounded much better than Florence.

**jobeterob** · 11-28-2012, 07:17 PM

The biggest problem with People is that it just isn't that good a song. The harmony on this version is what is best about it, but it isn't very good, nor is it as good as Barbra Streisand's ~ and that wasn't great either. Didn't Barbra win Grammy's for it in 1964 or 1965 ~ Grammys that should gone to the Beatles or Supremes or Beach Boys or Rolling Stones.

Nice to hear the Supremes at the end of it though.

Many of the Motown authors wrote what has turned out to be sensationalist stuff ~ it was the only way to sell a few books. So it is no surprise.

**franjoy56** · 11-29-2012, 01:21 AM

Originally Posted by skooldem1

I didn't mean that she was actually "sounding" like Diana but that her phrasing sounded like Diana. She sounded much better than Florence.

I beg your pardon, Florence Ballard sounds fantastic, you guys must have a tin ear, I am sorry but Florence Ballard wore that song out her voice is clear, and strong, so what if she didn't hit that ;note as on other versions like the one on the box set, if Flo had been given the solo lines without the background all over her lead lines she would have tore the roof off and if she couldn't sing it it she would have skipped it like she did on the "Enjoy Yourself" at the Copa. You guys always seem to find a way to down Flo's accomplishments witht the group but no not this time, and what about the Symphony medley,no one has said anything about how she made the parts of those songs sound like nobody's business not like the talk of the town where Cindy is hardly heard. GIVE FLO HER PROPS.......!!!!!! NOT A LEAD SINGER. Did you watch the Supremes on the Sammy Davis Jr. show where the Supremes sing the Andrew Sisters song who carried those tunes with the high vocals the tunes called for FLORENCE BALLARD placed right in the middle of the action. BUTTERED POPCORN, SAVE ME A STAR, LONG GONE LOVER, IT DOESN'T MATTER HOW I SAY IT, AIN'T THAT GOOD NEWS AND SO ON AND SO FORTH.

**jobeterob** · 11-29-2012, 01:36 AM

Where Florence sounded good was on songs like Manhattan, Nothing But Hearthaches, It's All Your Fault, Ain't That Good News. But People, this version and every other one the Supremes is not memorable for Diana, Florence or the Supremes. Actually, the line I like best in this is Mary's line/lines.

**franjoy56** · 11-29-2012, 01:39 AM

Originally Posted by skooldem1

I always cringe when they all scream that last note. That is just the worst.

Florence Ballard should have handled that ending by herself her vocals bleed through the ending and she sounds the best just as she did on the Box Set Version.

**franjoy56** · 11-29-2012, 01:45 AM

Mary sounds good her alto voice is smooth, but if Flo had a verse by herself, she would have sounded just as good if not better. You said nothing about her other leads either and the rest of the roostertail show where her vocals add to the delight of a real Supremes show especially the symphony medley, ychl, bimaa. and Let there be love. What she really needed was a solo without any background, but People was satisfying to me and all Flo's fans. Thank you very much.

**rod_rick** · 11-29-2012, 02:47 AM

Originally Posted by franjoy56

Mary sounds good her alto voice is smooth, but if Flo had a verse by herself, she would have sounded just as good if not better. You said nothing about her other leads either and the rest of the roostertail show where her vocals add to the delight of a real Supremes show especially the symphony medley, ychl, bimaa. and Let there be love. What she really needed was a solo without any background, but People was satisfying to me and all Flo's fans. Thank you very much.

I think with People, we expected much more from FLorence. IMO she gave us sass in her delivery when it didn't realy call for it. She also cut the notes off where it should have been longer in order for her to add her own flavor. What I do like is towards the end when she sings "people who need people OH Oh OH, that's a great line. The difference in the Symphony medley, Florence was more audible than Cindy but again IMO was not much difference. In some spots Flo's vocal flavor annoyed me because she fell out off her harmony note to add her own flavor, Bring It To Me come to mind. Florence was a great singer, and performer, she just needed direction. Too me what was really missing was Florence and Mary should have had more to do when it came to the patter between songs. I think my favorite cut from the Roostertail show was Back In My Arms Again, that song was tight but too short. I also wished that they had cut the music out and just let the ladies sing. BTW Make Someone Happy and Let There Be Love the ladies harmony was on point.

**skooldem1** · 11-29-2012, 10:17 AM

I didn't know that we couldn't critique Florences's vocals. Florence was a wonderful person. She had some bright moments as a Supreme, however, IMO her vocals were inconsistent.

**luke** · 11-29-2012, 03:10 PM

franjoy you said it all. Some always trying to diminish her-just like what happened at Motown! Even Diana has said Flo had a GREAT voice.

**franjoy56** · 11-29-2012, 04:55 PM

[QUOTE=skooldem1;133246]I didn't know that we couldn't critique Florences's vocals. Florence was a wonderful person. She had some bright moments as a Supreme, however, IMO her vocals were inconsistent.

Well that is your opinion you seem to always find fault with the background and lead vocals when it comes to Flo, so I guess you are entitled to your opinion, but I am just as worthy of disagreeing with your assessment. and by 1966 Flo and Mary were not getting the quality time on record, and it is just a miracle this song surfaced without Diana Ross not pun intended.

**rod_rick** · 11-29-2012, 05:04 PM

[QUOTE=franjoy56;133289]

Originally Posted by skooldem1

I didn't know that we couldn't critique Florences's vocals. Florence was a wonderful person. She had some bright moments as a Supreme, however, IMO her vocals were inconsistent.

Well that is your opinion you seem to always find fault with the background and lead vocals when it comes to Flo, so I guess you are entitled to your opinion, but I am just as worthy of disagreeing with your assessment. and by 1966 Flo and Mary were not getting the quality time on record, and it is just a miracle this song surfaced without Diana Ross not pun intended.

You know what would have really been great if the would have sang "Aint That Good News" instead of "Shake" It would have brought the house DOWN. Now that's Flo at her best.

**skooldem1** · 11-29-2012, 05:11 PM

You are coming across as a fanatic. Not everyone thinks that everything Flo did was perfect all the time. I voiced my opinion and I don't need you to convince me otherwise. When she was "on" she was on. When she wasn't she wasn't. Simple as that. You are not being objective. I also don't buy that whole argument that they weren't getting time to sing-to strengthen their voices. Whether you are singing "My world is empty without you babe" in the background, or lead vocals, you are STILL singing and using you vocal chords. They recorded hundreds of songs. They put in more studio time than most people. Funny, Luther Vandross and Lisa Fischer never had that problem of being background singers and still being able to SING when the time came.

**jobeterob** · 11-29-2012, 06:22 PM

The general consensus, fans aside, is that Flo's album was very weak; hence it did not sell.

As well, the general consensus is that the Supremes version of People is weak as well, regardless of who sang what. It was no Impossible Dream, no Somewhere, no Shake, no Manhattan, no My World is Empty Without You.

Some like Mary, some like Flo, some like Diana, some like Diane, some like Supremes.

Great that they can still cause a conversation nearly 50 years after the first hit!

**Shaqueetha_Jackson** · 11-29-2012, 08:12 PM

Originally Posted by luke

franjoy you said it all. Some always trying to diminish her-just like what happened at Motown! Even Diana has said Flo had a GREAT voice.

Florence blonde Ballard had the best voice at motowmn aint that good news is the best song ever at motwmn but berry gordy and bug eyes stopped it

**stephanie** · 11-29-2012, 08:35 PM

Come on Folks! Flo could sing she just wasnt POP material. As far as her solo album I will admit its not the best material but Like you Babe and Love Aint Love could have been top 20 hits easily had they been promoted. This Roostertail show is way better than Talk of the Town and for those who dont care for Cindy on Talk of the Town she shines on that Fats Waller medley that is the best I have heard her and Mary sound together. As a matter of fact when Jean Mary and Cindy are live its amazing and when Scherrie was in the group. Cindy took on a life of her own when Ross was gone live and on record and we have Frank Wilson to thank for that. I think Flo sounds great singing people! I like this performance because ALL of the girls sound like they are having a great time and Ross doesnt seem to mind all of them singing at one time. Let There be Love ...Florence has great harmony in this song. Mary Wilson was the best harmonizer of the group in my opinion with all personnel as they came and went. I have always wondered why she didnt want to sing a verse in Enjoy Yourself does anyone know? It seems like I remember someone saying she didnt rehearse it or something like that. Long live Flo!

**luke** · 11-29-2012, 08:40 PM

So Aretha wasnt pop material either?

**marv2** · 11-29-2012, 08:42 PM

Originally Posted by luke

So Aretha wasnt pop material either?

Aretha has WON more Grammys than any woman living or dead. She defines Pop[[ular) music!

**bradsupremes** · 11-29-2012, 09:47 PM

Originally Posted by marv2

Aretha has WON more Grammys than any woman living or dead. She defines Pop[[ular) music!

As someone once told me, Aretha could fart on a record and get a Grammy.

I really didn't want to post on this, but I decided to. Florence, Mary and Diana were all great singers. They were versatile, could blend together beautifully, and each had their own style. Some say Florence was an incredible singer and other say she was mediocre. There's no denying she had a powerful voice but she might not have sounded as great on lead because her voice wasn't adjusted to sing lead. Diana had the least appealing sound of the three ladies at the beginning. However as she was given the spot of lead singer her voice developed. I feel that's exactly what would have happened to Florence had she been given more of an opportunity to sing lead. She would have grown to know her abilities and control as a vocalist and then knock our socks off. Mary eventually grew as a vocalist in the 70's when she took on more leads.

In essence Florence didn't have the lead voice that many cracked her up to be, but had she been trained to do so she would have been that incredible singer we wanted her to be.

**luke** · 11-30-2012, 12:20 AM

My Aretha commented related to comment that Flo didnt have a pop voice--I feel she certainly did-as did Aretha and both had soul. Certainly Diana did not have a well trained pop voice--just listen to their first six singles. HDH dropped her key and a star was born along with the brilliance of HDH. Had Mary sang lead on Where DId Our Love Go as Eddie wanted it would have still gone to #1. Had Flo sang full lead on You Keep Me Hangin on it also would still have gone to #1. Diana probably had the least commercial voice of all three. But it was unique. Gladys Knight did not have the typical pop voice and had smash after smash, especially with Buddah.

**marv2** · 11-30-2012, 12:34 AM

Originally Posted by luke

My Aretha commented related to comment that Flo didnt have a pop voice--I feel she certainly did-as did Aretha and both had soul. Certainly Diana did not have a well trained pop voice--just listen to their first six singles. HDH dropped her key and a star was born along with the brilliance of HDH. Had Mary sang lead on Where DId Our Love Go as Eddie wanted it would have still gone to #1. Had Flo sang full lead on You Keep Me Hangin on it also would still have gone to #1. Diana probably had the least commercial voice of all three. But it was unique. Gladys Knight did not have the typical pop voice and had smash after smash, especially with Buddah.

All excellent and valid points Luke! To hear Diana Ross Zombies talk, they want you to believe that Diana Ross was the sole reason why the Supremes songs were so successful without once acknowledging that it was she that was the lead singer on all of those early flops save one! She was their lead singer when they were dubbed "The No Hits Supremes"! Explain that?

**franjoy56** · 11-30-2012, 01:29 AM

Originally Posted by luke

My Aretha commented related to comment that Flo didnt have a pop voice--I feel she certainly did-as did Aretha and both had soul. Certainly Diana did not have a well trained pop voice--just listen to their first six singles. HDH dropped her key and a star was born along with the brilliance of HDH. Had Mary sang lead on Where DId Our Love Go as Eddie wanted it would have still gone to #1. Had Flo sang full lead on You Keep Me Hangin on it also would still have gone to #1. Diana probably had the least commercial voice of all three. But it was unique. Gladys Knight did not have the typical pop voice and had smash after smash, especially with Buddah.

Luke I love your assessement of the Supremes sound, thanks for accessing this. Bradsupremes everything you said makes sense except for the part where you say Flo didn't have a lead voice. When I heard the Wdolg album's "Long Gone Lover" i was sold on Flo's lead, at that time her confidence was in full swing by 1966 it was shot because of what was going on in the Supremes: Berry said there gonna be only one "Come See About Meeeeee" in the Supremes by this time, but the Roostertail show truly displayed that Supremes spirit and "People' by Flo and Mary was a big part of that show. Heck diana bless her heart didn't even announce the song when it was introduced as a number from Funny Girl.

**motony** · 11-30-2012, 09:23 AM

I listened to this performance last night & thought it was excellent as usual. They sounded like a real group & all 3 held their own & did their part.

**blueskies** · 11-30-2012, 11:36 AM

In going back and re-reading what I wrote. I came off as presenting Flo wasn't 'all that'. Actually, Flo was my favorite back in the day. I think people wrote things about her "People" and other performances as nearing opera. I think the myth 'grew'. When I finally had her CD in my hands I was really let down. A couple of the songs were OK, but, most were pretty crappy. I don't think they suited her voice and style. With direction, some vocal coaching and the right material, Flo COULD have been 'all that'. She brought humor, spice and a flair to The Supremes that made the group what it was. With that....thank you, Florence.

**luke** · 11-30-2012, 11:40 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TkWeQfdpo4 Oh come on now, this woman could sing opera.

**skooldem1** · 11-30-2012, 11:47 AM

Weren't we discussing Flo's vocals on People at the Roostertail? We aren't talking about other songs, or what could have been. As I said before when she was on she was on. But she just wasn't consistent.

**motony** · 11-30-2012, 11:50 AM

Florence Ballards' solo material for ABC was recorded on a very low budget.

**luke** · 11-30-2012, 01:09 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-g8SEtMY31o this aint no backup singer!

**captainjames** · 11-30-2012, 01:15 PM

OMG if Berry was sitting in the audience I know why he said NO !!!!!!!! !!!!NO More !!!

**rod_rick** · 11-30-2012, 01:30 PM

Originally Posted by bradsupremes

As someone once told me, Aretha could fart on a record and get a Grammy.

I really didn't want to post on this, but I decided to. Florence, Mary and Diana were all great singers. They were versatile, could blend together beautifully, and each had their own style. Some say Florence was an incredible singer and other say she was mediocre. There's no denying she had a powerful voice but she might not have sounded as great on lead because her voice wasn't adjusted to sing lead. Diana had the least appealing sound of the three ladies at the beginning. However as she was given the spot of lead singer her voice developed. I feel that's exactly what would have happened to Florence had she been given more of an opportunity to sing lead. She would have grown to know her abilities and control as a vocalist and then knock our socks off. Mary eventually grew as a vocalist in the 70's when she took on more leads.

In essence Florence didn't have the lead voice that many cracked her up to be, but had she been trained to do so she would have been that incredible singer we wanted her to be.

A voice of reason Brad your are correct with your observation

**BigAl** · 12-01-2012, 11:25 AM

It appears the leads on "People" got passed around like a bad cold. When I saw the group in August of 1966, Diane and Flo did leads but Mary didn't. Now we get this version, where Diane doesn't handle a lead, and later she had the only lead. Now we just have to wait for a version to surface where all three get leads!

smark21 · 12-01-2012, 03:22 PM

Given how dreary the arrangement is on The Supremes version of People, it’s really not a favor to any member of the Supremes to have to sing lead on that version of the song.