The events which led up to Diana Ross' Return to Love disaster tour.

[revvy]

This is the way I understand the entire ordeal:

1) Scott Sanders [[a promoter and good friend of Diana's) suggested that Diana add a Supremes "segment" to her upcoming tour featuring Mary and Cindy. Diana liked the idea and Scott took it to Arthur Fogel of TNA/SFX Entertainment [[now mega-giant Live Nation) who also liked the idea. Due to the event nature of this historic Supremes Reunion, everyone involved felt they could make loads of money on this venture so they decided the tour would be of an arena-nature to maximize profits and an opportunity for all the fans to be able to see the Supremes live. The rumor mill begins and the press has a field day calling it a "full" reunion tour. I personally was beyond ecstatic! The Supremes were finally going to reunite and I could see them live for the very first time. Of course a true reunion of the Supremes could never be with the death of Florence Ballard, but Cindy Birdsong was with the group during its 1960s heyday, so it is legitimate to truly bill this show as Diana Ross and the Supremes. I had also made up my mind to see this concert more than once because I love them so much. I assume many other die-hard Supremes fans felt the same way. According to Mary, this decision was made in early summer 1999 without her being contacted. Mistake #1.

2) Months go by and Mary is still not contacted. Diana begins pre-production for the tour and oddly enough decides she want latter-day Supreme Scherrie Payne to sing backup. I have heard 2 reports that Scherrie would either sing offstage to boost Mary and Cindy's sound or that she would sing on stage in the dark with 2 other backup singers. Mistake #2

3) Scott contacts Scherrie who willingly accepts and suggests having a tour with all former living Supremes. Scott takes the idea to Diana who agrees. Mary is still not contacted. Mistake #3

4) Fogel and TNA/SFX like the idea as well and work up the talent fees. I also understand they conducted a poll to decide which of the former Supremes had the highest name recognition. I believe Cindy Birdsong came out on top since her name is so unique. Mary Wilson came in 3rd or 4th and is often confused with Mary Wells. It is decided that each former Supreme would be offered 1 million dollars for 30 shows. This figure was guaranteed no matter how many shows even if under 30. Diana was to get the lion's share of the talent fee as I believe she was named a co-executive producer of the tour and would have to fork out some of her own money for production fees. Diana creates set lists, costumes and decides [[since this is going to be huge) she wants dancers and a full orchestra for 1960s "authenticity." Mary is still not contacted.

5) Mary begins an overseas tour of the UK with other Motown artists, fall 1999. The other former Supremes are contacted and Jean Terrell and Susaye Greene are somewhat hesitant because of the harsh and aggressive tone of the negotiating team. According to Susaye and Scherrie, all former Supremes are made the offer and in early December were to fly to New York to discuss the tour and a possible photo shoot. Mary [[who was living in New York at the time) gets wind of the tour preparations and tells her manager to contact whomever is putting the tour together to state that she won't participate because she was not contacted within a reasonable amount of time. She also felt as a founding member, she should have had some creative say in how the show [[or segment) would be put together. Diana is contacted about this and calls Mary the next day [[early December). Apparently the conversation did not go well at all. Mary suggests they get together to repair their relationship and discuss the tour. Diana flat-out refuses and wants to get the business done first. Mistake #4. Mary is offended and they argue. She only wants Cindy on the tour, not the other Supremes. The call ends with Diana turning the negotiations over to TNA/SFX.

6) There is a snowstorm in New York the day all the former Supremes are to fly in to discuss the tour. Mary is away on tour. TNA/SFX try to do the discussion in Los Angeles and invite Jean Terrell, Susaye Greene, Lynda Laurence, Scherrie Payne and Cindy Birdsong to "audition" for the tour. Mistake #5. Jean is terribly offended and refuses. Susaye is also offended yet heads to the rehearsal space anyway. Scherrie and Lynda have already done their spot. No word on Cindy Birdsong, however she later stated was treated poorly by the negotiators.

7) Mary flat out refuses the 1 million dollar offer. It was later upped to 2 million. She refuses again, knowing Diana will make at least 12 million. Diana is pissed. TNA baits Mary with a "possible" offer of 3 million. Diana "supposedly doubled Mary's offer to 4 million, however that was never confirmed. Cindy Birdsong's salary remained at approximately 1 million. She sided with Mary as far as the negotiations because they basically come as a "package." Haggling continues back and forth. Diana never calls Mary again nor meets her to discuss anything regarding the tour. Mistake #6. Mary is still overseas and the final offer comes: 3 million for Mary, 1.5 million for Cindy. Diana's offer of 4 million never materialized yet she stated it on 20/20. Mary agreed that the other Supremes could be involved on some level, but she wanted a say in how the tour would be staged. Despite everything, Mary accepts the final offer at the last minute because of the deadline and Diana rejects it for reasons unknown. That means Cindy is out too.

8) Diana decides not to have the Supremes at all, but the production and promotion have already started. She decides that since Scherrie and Lynda are bona fide Supremes, they will be recruited to do the tour. Mistake #7 [[and the biggest one in my opinion)

9) Now the back and forth arguing continues between Mary and Diana in the media with Mary calling it a bogus reunion while Diana insists it is authentic because of Lynda and Scherrie's Motown contracts. Since Scherrie and Lynda never sang with Diana, yet alone shared even one minute of studio time, the premise of a union/reunion is indeed bogus. Diana was trying to promote a faux or discounted product with all too real ticket prices.

10) When I found out about the intended lineup, I declined to attend as did many Supremes fans. The press cited foul, called Lynda and Scherrie scabs [[which they technically were because Mary and Cindy were willing to negotiate in good faith for a fair deal) and dogged Diana for putting together such a sham.

11) The tour goes out and sells poorly. TNA also tried to force Diana into a long-term contract with the company which she refused. As much as I love Diana and feel she is one of the greatest entertainers in history, she was dead wrong in trying to pull this tour off. I place the blame squarely on her shoulders. She should have met with Mary personally to put their past issues behind them and discuss the tour privately before turning anything over to negotiators. What could have been an EXPLOSIVE reunion tour turned to mud after a few performances.

12) Nobody came out of this in a positive light. Everyone involved was utterly disappointed. Greed and ego were responsible for this mess. Unfortunately the time has come and gone for any sort of reunion. Cindy will be 73 this year and no longer performs in public. It still makes me sad. I wanted to see them together so badly. Now all we have are memories and Youtube.

[jobeterob]

Once I got a big gas guzzler of a truck, with dual exhaust and a 460........it was a mistake too! But a damn nice truck if someone else would have filled it with gas.

[marv2]

This is the way I understand the entire ordeal:

1) Scott Sanders [[a promoter and good friend of Diana's) suggested that Diana add a Supremes "segment" to her upcoming tour featuring Mary and Cindy. Diana liked the idea and Scott took it to Arthur Fogel of TNA/SFX Entertainment [[now mega-giant Live Nation) who also liked the idea. Due to the event nature of this historic Supremes Reunion, everyone involved felt they could make loads of money on this venture so they decided the tour would be of an arena-nature to maximize profits and an opportunity for all the fans to be able to see the Supremes live. The rumor mill begins and the press has a field day calling it a "full" reunion tour. I personally was beyond ecstatic! The Supremes were finally going to reunite and I could see them live for the very first time. Of course a true reunion of the Supremes could never be with the death of Florence Ballard, but Cindy Birdsong was with the group during its 1960s heyday, so it is legitimate to truly bill this show as Diana Ross and the Supremes. I had also made up my mind to see this concert more than once because I love them so much. I assume many other die-hard Supremes fans felt the same way. According to Mary, this decision was made in early summer 1999 without her being contacted. Mistake #1.

2) Months go by and Mary is still not contacted. Diana begins pre-production for the tour and oddly enough decides she want latter-day Supreme Scherrie Payne to sing backup. I have heard 2 reports that Scherrie would either sing offstage to boost Mary and Cindy's sound or that she would sing on stage in the dark with 2 other backup singers. Mistake #2

3) Scott contacts Scherrie who willingly accepts and suggests having a tour with all former living Supremes. Scott takes the idea to Diana who agrees. Mary is still not contacted. Mistake #3

4) Fogel and TNA/SFX like the idea as well and work up the talent fees. I also understand they conducted a poll to decide which of the former Supremes had the highest name recognition. I believe Cindy Birdsong came out on top since her name is so unique. Mary Wilson came in 3rd or 4th and is often confused with Mary Wells. It is decided that each former Supreme would be offered 1 million dollars for 30 shows. This figure was guaranteed no matter how many shows even if under 30. Diana was to get the lion's share of the talent fee as I believe she was named a co-executive producer of the tour and would have to fork out some of her own money for production fees. Diana creates set lists, costumes and decides [[since this is going to be huge) she wants dancers and a full orchestra for 1960s "authenticity." Mary is still not contacted.

5) Mary begins an overseas tour of the UK with other Motown artists, fall 1999. The other former Supremes are contacted and Jean Terrell and Susaye Greene are somewhat hesitant because of the harsh and aggressive tone of the negotiating team. According to Susaye and Scherrie, all former Supremes are made the offer and in early December were to fly to New York to discuss the tour and a possible photo shoot. Mary [[who was living in New York at the time) gets wind of the tour preparations and tells her manager to contact whomever is putting the tour together to state that she won't participate because she was not contacted within a reasonable amount of time. She also felt as a founding member, she should have had some creative say in how the show [[or segment) would be put together. Diana is contacted about this and calls Mary the next day [[early December). Apparently the conversation did not go well at all. Mary suggests they get together to repair their relationship and discuss the tour. Diana flat-out refuses and wants to get the business done first. Mistake #4. Mary is offended and they argue. She only wants Cindy on the tour, not the other Supremes. The call ends with Diana turning the negotiations over to TNA/SFX.

6) There is a snowstorm in New York the day all the former Supremes are to fly in to discuss the tour. Mary is away on tour. TNA/SFX try to do the discussion in Los Angeles and invite Jean Terrell, Susaye Greene, Lynda Laurence, Scherrie Payne and Cindy Birdsong to "audition" for the tour. Mistake #5. Jean is terribly offended and refuses. Susaye is also offended yet heads to the rehearsal space anyway. Scherrie and Lynda have already done their spot. No word on Cindy Birdsong, however she later stated was treated poorly by the negotiators.

7) Mary flat out refuses the 1 million dollar offer. It was later upped to 2 million. She refuses again, knowing Diana will make at least 12 million. Diana is pissed. TNA baits Mary with a "possible" offer of 3 million. Diana "supposedly doubled Mary's offer to 4 million, however that was never confirmed. Cindy Birdsong's salary remained at approximately 1 million. She sided with Mary as far as the negotiations because they basically come as a "package." Haggling continues back and forth. Diana never calls Mary again nor meets her to discuss anything regarding the tour. Mistake #6. Mary is still overseas and the final offer comes: 3 million for Mary, 1.5 million for Cindy. Diana's offer of 4 million never materialized yet she stated it on 20/20. Mary agreed that the other Supremes could be involved on some level, but she wanted a say in how the tour would be staged. Despite everything, Mary accepts the final offer at the last minute because of the deadline and Diana rejects it for reasons unknown. That means Cindy is out too.

8) Diana decides not to have the Supremes at all, but the production and promotion have already started. She decides that since Scherrie and Lynda are bona fide Supremes, they will be recruited to do the tour. Mistake #7 [[and the biggest one in my opinion)

9) Now the back and forth arguing continues between Mary and Diana in the media with Mary calling it a bogus reunion while Diana insists it is authentic because of Lynda and Scherrie's Motown contracts. Since Scherrie and Lynda never sang with Diana, yet alone shared even one minute of studio time, the premise of a union/reunion is indeed bogus. Diana was trying to promote a faux or discounted product with all too real ticket prices.

10) When I found out about the intended lineup, I declined to attend as did many Supremes fans. The press cited foul, called Lynda and Scherrie scabs [[which they technically were because Mary and Cindy were willing to negotiate in good faith for a fair deal) and dogged Diana for putting together such a sham.

11) The tour goes out and sells poorly. TNA also tried to force Diana into a long-term contract with the company which she refused. As much as I love Diana and feel she is one of the greatest entertainers in history, she was dead wrong in trying to pull this tour off. I place the blame squarely on her shoulders. She should have met with Mary personally to put their past issues behind them and discuss the tour privately before turning anything over to negotiators. What could have been an EXPLOSIVE reunion tour turned to mud after a few performances.

12) Nobody came out of this in a positive light. Everyone involved was utterly disappointed. Greed and ego were responsible for this mess. Unfortunately the time has come and gone for any sort of reunion. Cindy will be 73 this year and no longer performs in public. It still makes me sad. I wanted to see them together so badly. Now all we have are memories and Youtube.

Good synopsis, but not much new here....Diana Ross stabs the other Supremes in the back
! A few important facts are not included. One being that Berry Gordy stepped up to try to negotiate for Mary Wilson and Cindy Birdsong at the last minute but did not have much luck. Also, Diane had went to see Scherrie and Lynda Laurence perform in Vegas in 1998, 2 years before the start of the RTL Tour. She had decided on using them even before she ever contacted Mary or Cindy. There are witnesses [[some even famous) to this fact! Ugh!

[revvy]

Thanks for that added info, Marv. I think Diana was playing games and purposely made Mary and Cindy that low ball offer hoping [[planning?) they would balk. No worries, she had her backup minions already in place. I would like to know what Scherrie and Lynda were ultimately paid, though.

[marv2]

Thanks for that added info, Marv. I think Diana was playing games and purposely made Mary and Cindy that low ball offer hoping [[planning?) they would balk. No worries, she had her backup minions already in place. I would like to know what Scherrie and Lynda were ultimately paid, though.

Oh she knew damned well that they would not go for that knowing that all three of them were paid equally by Berry and Motown when they were "Diana Ross & The Supremes"! Why on Earth would they go back to doing their former jobs for one 10th of what they use to make as group members. It all back fired on Ross and she still has not recovered!

[marv2]

Thanks for that added info, Marv. I think Diana was playing games and purposely made Mary and Cindy that low ball offer hoping [[planning?) they would balk. No worries, she had her backup minions already in place. I would like to know what Scherrie and Lynda were ultimately paid, though.

I heard a figure that Scherrie and Lynda were to be guaranteed but I could never verify it, so I can not say what they were paid with confidence.

[smark21]

Oh lord, here we go again, lol! Revvy, your initial post seems quite familiar. Back in 2000, shortly after the tour was cancelled, there was a person at the Yahoo Supremes group who worked for the New York Times who posted pretty much what you put up. Did you do a copy and paste from an old website in order to get this thread up and running and so people can rehash this for 10 millionth time since the tour was cancelled? And Revvy, are you still upset by Return to Love? If so, you may want to look into seeking out some post traumatic stress therapy as there’s nothing wrong in seeking treatment to improve one’s mental health.

[marv2]

Also, Arthur Fogel was a dumb jerk. Very disrespectful. A totally disgusting figure.

[revvy]

I agree, Marv. I just googled him. He's corrupt. You can see it in his eyes.

[luke]

Great summary revvy!! Even a few thing I didnt know. I heard Scherrie and Lynda were paid 250,000 each but have no idea if that's accurate. I thought Cindy was offered less than a million all along. Im still not sure if Ross never iintended to have Mary and Cindy. I think she may have but had Scherrie and Lynda ready in case. Ross did begin to say it was not reunion when Mary and Cindy out of the picture. Cindy told USA today that she subsequently called Diana when the tour started to falter and hoped they could work it out. Apparently Diana never called her back. Difficult stuff but fascinating. Even Ross ultra fan JRT says all Ross had to do was have lunch with Mary and make nice and the tour would have happened. On the other hand it's hard to imagine Cindy and Mary being willing to stand a thousand feet from DIana and sing oooh oooh!!

[Kamasu_Jr]

OH BOY! My eyes are raised to the sky. Here it goes again. Time to exit stage left.

[floyjoy678]

All hopes for a Supremes reunion came to an end on February 22, 1976. I'm sorry but Diana, Mary and Cindy onstage wouldn't do it for me it would have to be Diana, Mary and Florence.

[marv2]

Great summary revvy!! Even a few thing I didnt know. I heard Scherrie and Lynda were paid 250,000 each but have no idea if that's accurate. I thought Cindy was offered less than a million all along. Im still not sure if Ross never iintended to have Mary and Cindy. I think she may have but had Scherrie and Lynda ready in case. Ross did begin to say it was not reunion when Mary and Cindy out of the picture. Cindy told USA today that she subsequently called Diana when the tour started to falter and hoped they could work it out. Apparently Diana never called her back. Difficult stuff but fascinating. Even Ross ultra fan JRT says all Ross had to do was have lunch with Mary and make nice and the tour would have happened. On the other hand it's hard to imagine Cindy and Mary being willing to stand a thousand feet from DIana and sing oooh oooh!!

It is impossible to believe that they were ever seriously considering Mary Wilson and Cindy Birdsong for that tour for the fact that negotiations were going on up until just weeks before the start of the tour. How would you explain that everything went ahead on schedule with Scherrie and Lynda including the press conference held that April at Grand Central Station. How were they able to get all those publicity photos, videos and costumes ready in such a short period? hmmmmmm........

[revvy]

You're right, Marv. Wasn't it written somewhere while negotiations were "supposedly" going on with Mary and Cindy that Lynda and Scherrie's gowns were being cut? Come on! They had no plans of using Mary and Cindy. I think it would have looked ridiculous if all 7 Supremes were wearing the same gown. Notwithstanding, the tour would have be renamed "Diana Ross and ALL the Supremes!" LOL. Ridiculous.

Didn't Mary say on "Donny and Marie" that the promoter accepted her final offer, but it needed to be cleared by Diana? Donny replied, "It must have been nixed right there." Then Diana had the nerve to say on the Today Show to Matt Lauer when asked if she was disappointed that things couldn't be worked out with Mary, "But is wasn't ME!" Sure it was, DIana! It's easy to place the blame on nameless and faceless promoters . I just can't understand what was going through her mind at the time. Is she [[or was she) really that delusional? Apparently so!

[luke]

Well why write all the things you did revvy-all the mistakes you mention if it was never intended for Mary and Cindy to tour with her??It should just read Diana wanted Scherrie and Lynda and got them--no mistakes if it was planned already. And why then have Mary and Cindy discussed these chain of events -wouldnt they just say she never wanted us and why did they bother to negotiate at all ?? Diana had no way of knowing for sure Mary wouldnt accept the 2million. JRT's updated Diana book speaks of Diana's divorce and menopause as contibuting to her behavior.

[nathanj06]

I have to laugh at some of Diana's infamous quotes over the years. Where does she come up with this crap?

Motown 25: "It's not about the people who leave Motown that's important. It's about the people who come back and tonight everybody [[?) came back".

RTL: "It's not about the individual member's, It's about the music". Yeah right.

That would mean it's about her. She's either not too bright or has very bad PR.

I have one for her DUI: "It's not about falling over during a sobriety test, it's about getting up and saying whoops"!

I don't mean to offend anyone but this subject is beyond tired and very humorous. The woman is human like anyone else and has made mistakes as we all have. I will never get the obsession with this nor do I want to.

[revvy]

Take a look at this footage of the Tempts Complete Reunion in 1982. Now if the initial concept of RTL was REALLY a complete Supremes reunion, it would have to look something like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SM2J9efH-VI

Now we all know that Diana is not a team player. I just don't see how a complete reunion of all living Supremes could have worked from a conceptual standpoint unless Jean, Lynda, Scherrie and Susaye were the opening act. Am I wrong on this? Don't think so.

[milven]

Oh she knew damned well that they would not go for that knowing that all three of them were paid equally by Berry and Motown when they were "Diana Ross & The Supremes"! Why on Earth would they go back to doing their former jobs for one 10th of what they use to make as group members. ...

Hmmm! Good point about them being paid equally. I bet Diana complained too back then, albeit quietly and not on national TV, that they were being paid equally even though it was she who was in the recording studio alone for so many of the recording sessions and it was she who did so much of the lead singing on stage. In general, I would agree that group members should be paid equally, but some group members just stand out and do more and bring something special to the group. Maybe singers like Russell Thompkins, Teddy Pendergrass, Diana Ross, Levi Stubbs, Tony Williams, Martha Reeves and Smokey Robinson should have been paid more than the other members of their groups.

[staceys dad]

All hopes for a Supremes reunion came to an end on February 22, 1976. I'm sorry but Diana, Mary and Cindy onstage wouldn't do it for me it would have to be Diana, Mary and Florence.

have never taken to dross [[as i call her )always came across as being up her own backside...if she was on in my garden i would close the curtains ........

[revvy]

Here's an interesting recorded interview with Scherrie who goes into some detail about Return to Love's failure. Thanks to Motown Jim for this.

https://soundcloud.com/motown_jim/jo...interview-with

[marv2]

Here's an interesting recorded interview with Scherrie who goes into some detail about Return to Love's failure. Thanks to Motown Jim for this.

https://soundcloud.com/motown_jim/jo...interview-with

I have not listened to it [[ I don't know how to find the part about RTL) BUT if Scherrie is still trying to use the situation of the Promoters trying to force Ross into some type of exclusivity agreement as to why the tour failed and was cancelled, she is only kidding herself!

How can she explain the lack of ticket sales and overall lack of interest by the public who knew nothng about the problems diana ross was facing with the concert promoters? HA!

[revvy]

Hey Marv,

I think you have to listen to the entire interview which is indeed interesting. Freda and Motown Jim also speak a little. Scherrie was very candid and honest about the entire situation. Yes, she did mention the exclusivity agreement, but she certainly wasn't implying that was the sole reason for the cancellation. She did say, however, that she and Lynda "stepped in" for Mary and Cindy because the promoters and Diana couldn't come to an agreement with them.