Flo 1967 - ". . . pushed aside set aside like a doll on a shelf"

**Methuselah2** · 10-17-2012, 10:15 PM

This link contains some very interesting information, wonderful photos, and an insightful viewpoint. And just as she's about to be forced out of the group, there's Flo--with her hair cut very short and looking more beautiful than ever.

". . . and you'll understand why I sit and cry."

http://illkeepyouposted.typepad.com/.../04/index.html

**franjoy56** · 10-17-2012, 11:32 PM

Originally Posted by Methuselah2

This link contains some very interesting information, wonderful photos, and an insightful viewpoint. And just as she's about to be forced out of the group, there's Flo--with her hair cut very short and looking more beautiful than ever.

". . . and you'll understand why I sit and cry."

http://illkeepyouposted.typepad.com/.../04/index.html

This is the reason why the Supremes never sounded the same after the night Flo was fired, These photos prove that Flo was the visual spark of the Supremes fabulously beautiful and a voice to boot as well. Queen of the House, up everyday at 6. If you listen to the Supremes at the Rosstertail you can see why with Florence Ballard holding up that background
The suprmes couldl not go wrong. We miss and love you Flo.

RossHolloway · 10-18-2012, 09:30 AM

Didn't Florece want out of the group?

**skooldem1** · 10-18-2012, 09:55 AM

I find it odd that some Florence fans push forward the notion that Flo was so real and wasn't into the "fakeness" of the Supremes. That is bull. What Florence didn't like, and more importantly- couldn't handle was the business aspect of Show BUSINESS. We have all read how once Florence came into money again after winning a lawsuit or something, that the first thing she did was reach into her "Supremes" bag, buying clothes, furs, etc. She loved all that- almost any woman would.

**Methuselah2** · 10-18-2012, 10:20 AM

Originally Posted by RossHolloway

Didn't Florece want out of the group?

From what I've often read, she wasn't happy about being in a group that she had started that was so intensely focused on making and highlighting Diana as a star to the detriment of both Mary and herself. And I've always gathered that any leaving of the group was a decision if and when that she wanted to retain. It would seem she was extremely unhappy about the direction that the group took once their popularity took off. That part of it doesn't seem to have been something that she had ever originally envisioned. Sadly, we're denied the opportunity of knowing exactly how she felt. Piecing things togther by what's been heard and conclusions being drawn and assumed is always a dicey proposition. Things are not always as they may seem.

**Methuselah2** · 10-18-2012, 10:33 AM

Originally Posted by skooldem1

I find it odd that some Florence fans push forward the notion that Flo was so real and wasn't into the "fakeness" of the Supremes. That is bull. What Florence didn't like, and more importantly- couldn't handle was the business aspect of Show BUSINESS. We have all read how once Florence came into money again after winning a lawsuit or something, that the first thing she did was reach into her "Supremes" bag, buying clothes, furs, etc. She loved all that- almost any woman would.

It would seem that there were some aspects of being in the group that Flo relished. And other aspects that she could never reconcile. Every work situation always has to be weighed. Show business is just so all-consuming and difficult to control. And what's important to people is always subject to change.

**luke** · 10-18-2012, 12:15 PM

Thx, vg researched article. One thing that I dont think is given enough wait is Flo hated to fly. She looked so exhausted when they arrived in England in 65.

**Roberta75** · 10-18-2012, 12:29 PM

Originally Posted by luke

Thx, vg researched article. One thing that I dont think is given enough wait is Flo hated to fly. She looked so exhausted when they arrived in England in 65.

Why was she exhausted? Flo didn't push the plane. She more than likely sat in a first class seat eating fancy food and sipping the best wine and champane.

Where did you read that Florence Ballard hated to fly? Can you please supply a link that states that?

Roberta

RossHolloway · 10-18-2012, 01:01 PM

So when did the meeting at Berry Gordy's mansion take place? The meeting that included all the Supreme's and Florence's mother? I don't think we will ever know everything that took place leading up to what happened in Las Vegas. We may know bits and pieces, but we will never know the entire story.

**reese** · 10-18-2012, 01:52 PM

Originally Posted by RossHolloway

So when did the meeting at Berry Gordy's mansion take place? The meeting that included all the Supreme's and Florence's mother? I don't think we will ever know everything that took place leading up to what happened in Las Vegas. We may know bits and pieces, but we will never know the entire story.

I think it was April of 1967, a few days before they did the Hollywood Bowl gig with Cindy.

**floyjoy678** · 10-18-2012, 04:28 PM

It was stated she hated to fly by her cousin on both the Unsung episode and a special on E! that was done on her years ago. Which I can sympathize cause even though I've flown several times I still have anxiety issues every time it comes to getting on an airplane.

The thing that puzzles me about Flo's firing is why did Berry fire her in April knowing that it'd take a few months to get Cindy out of the Bluebelles. He fires Florence then replaces her with Cindy a few days later only to have Florence come back.

**markdtiller** · 10-18-2012, 04:28 PM

It's very suspect that her ABC album was bought by Motown. Anyone know any more about this? I don't recall mention of it in the various books.

RossHolloway · 10-18-2012, 04:34 PM

Originally Posted by markdtiller

It's very suspect that her ABC album was bought by Motown. Anyone know any more about this? I don't recall mention of it in the various books.

I wonder if ABC is now controlled by Universal.

**Laserdk** · 10-18-2012, 05:15 PM

The ABC/Dunhill catalogue is most definitely owned and controlled by Universal as MCA snapped that up in late '78/early '79.

Ivor

**nabob** · 10-18-2012, 06:26 PM

Originally Posted by Laserdk

The ABC/Dunhill catalogue is most definitely owned and controlled by Universal as MCA snapped that up in late '78/early '79.

Ivor

Universal in Europe was kind enough to finally release Florence's album with a few bonus cuts.

**franjoy56** · 10-19-2012, 12:16 AM

Originally Posted by nabob

Universal in Europe was kind enough to finally release Florence's album with a few bonus cuts.

Unfortunately the firing of Flo Ballard from the Supremes, via Bery Gordy is one of the saddest chapters in the Supremes story and it still resonates today because of the spiraling effect it had on things that followed.

revvy · 10-19-2012, 12:39 AM

Originally Posted by floyjoy678

The thing that puzzles me about Flo's firing is why did Berry fire her in April knowing that it'd take a few months to get Cindy out of the Bluebelles. He fires Florence then replaces her with Cindy a few days later only to have Florence come back.

It's my understanding that the Hollywood Bowl gig was an extremely important one and Berry didn't want to take chances with Florence possibly not showing. You are correct in that it took Motown a short while to get Cindy out of the Bluebelles and they let Blondie back to fulfill previous engagements.

**Glenpwood** · 10-19-2012, 10:38 AM

Originally Posted by markdtiller

It's very suspect that her ABC album was bought by Motown. Anyone know any more about this? I don't recall mention of it in the various books.

I believe that comes from Tony Turner's All That Glittered. Never heard it confirmed that Motown actually bought it. MCA did distribute Motown product in the 80's and ABC records was bought by them in 1979 so thats probably how they wound up in the same vault. He also claims the Flo: My Story manuscript Ballard was composing before her death was sold to Motown by Tommy Chapman for quick cash so it could be shredded. Tony's book is written with the drama amped to the max so he probably just heard the tapes were in the same place and assumed the worst or got passed incorrect info.

**luke** · 10-19-2012, 10:54 AM

Some writers have said Flo was kind of on a trial basis and may have come back if she "towed the line." Diana herself told this to Oprah in an interview recently posted here.

**milven** · 10-19-2012, 11:08 AM

How terrible that would have been for Cindy, if , after she burned the bridge between Patti and the Bluebelles, she was told "Never mind, we don't need you anymore!"

Although, it would have prepped her for what came years later, when Linda and Jean left Mary standing alone and Cindy was asked to come back only to be told basically the same thing by Pedro

**marv2** · 10-19-2012, 11:31 AM

Originally Posted by milven

How terrible that would have been for Cindy, if , after she burned the bridge between Patti and the Bluebelles, she was told "Never mind, we don't need you anymore!"

Although, it would have prepped her for what came years later, when Linda and Jean left Mary standing alone and Cindy was asked to come back only to be told basically the same thing by Pedro

It happens to people everyday in jobs all over the country.

**floyjoy678** · 10-19-2012, 01:13 PM

Right so why didn't Berry wait till July when Cindy was available to have that meeting at his house when he fired Florence? I don't buy the whole "back on a trail basis", I believe Berry made up his mind and her messing things up in New Orleans weeks earlier where she left Diana and Mary to perform as a duo was the final straw for him or else he wouldn't have fired her unless Diana and Mary convinced him to bring her back. Although I do find it interesting he went about replacing her with Marlene Barrow as early as early 1966.

**skooldem1** · 10-19-2012, 01:16 PM

Florence was not reliable.

smark21 · 10-19-2012, 04:59 PM

True she had some serious personal and emotional issues, but in the end Florence Ballard was not as committed a show business professional as Diana Ross and Mary Wilson. Florence missed shows due to her drinking, had trouble learning dance steps, and argued too often with the boss. As in any other work situation, such a person has to be let go and her replacement Cindy Birdsong was far more reliable and professional.

**144man** · 10-19-2012, 06:02 PM

Originally Posted by marv2

It happens to people everyday in jobs all over the country.

And that somehow makes it all right?

**marv2** · 10-19-2012, 06:23 PM

Originally Posted by 144man

And that somehow makes it all right?

Where do you see the word "right" in what I posted?

**luke** · 10-19-2012, 08:53 PM

Florence Ballard was a tremendous asset to the Supremes. The printed reviews of their shows never mentioned any problems with Florence-in fact the reviews of her final shows in Vegas raved about them all!! She was told she was lazy when she was under doctors orders for pneumonia. She was frequently called fat for having a beautiful figure. Im tired of some people aligning with Motown and victimizing her. How many performers have missed any shows? How many did Flo miss? Diana was ill in Boston and had the rest of the run cancelled and stormed out of the Latin Casino.

**marv2** · 10-19-2012, 08:58 PM

Originally Posted by luke

Florence Ballard was a tremendous asset to the Supremes. The printed reviews of their shows never mentioned any problems with Florence-in fact the reviews of her final shows in Vegas raved about them all!! She was told she was lazy when she was under doctors orders for pneumonia. She was frequently called fat for having a beautiful figure. Im tired of some people aligning with Motown and victimizing her. How many performers have missed any shows? How many did Flo miss? Diana was ill in Boston and had the rest of the run cancelled and stormed out of the Latin Casino.

I agree! Florence was great and the Supremes would not have been as great as they were without her.

**antceleb12** · 10-20-2012, 12:06 PM

I wonder how different things could have been for her had she not been raped. Of course, all we can do is speculate, but I think it's very possible that her rape was at least in some part responsible for her distrust in people and her emotional instability.

Personally, I don't think her problem was not being the lead. I think that she thought that she was getting screwed over professionally and financially. She once said that in Vancouver, Berry told her that if she wanted to leave she should just do that, and Florence responded with the fact that she had said she wouldn't stand in the way of Diana leaving, but did not want to leave the group.

I think her depression makes it hard to judge how she really felt at times. Even in the early days of the group she was at odds with Diana and Berry. And then at other times, she proved to be a real success [[Berry would compliment her on her comedic timing, or how the men seemed to adore her in Japan). Although she is gone, it's great that some of her tapes and autobiography were released a few years ago so we could get her side of the story.

**144man** · 10-21-2012, 07:07 AM

Originally Posted by marv2

Where do you see the word "right" in what I posted?

Just trying to understand what point you're making. So you mean it's just a fact of life that things happen like that?

**Jimi LaLumia** · 10-21-2012, 11:31 AM

it IS a fact of life that if you accept employment with a 'boss' and sign an agreement,and while getting a house and a cadillac, furs and clothes, etc be made by the 'boss' into a world famous 'name', and then not show up for work or show up in bad condition[[because you're unhappy with the direction that the 'boss' has chosen), try to undermine a successful business project, publicly yell, scream at and threaten the 'boss' in public, etc....then you will be FIRED!... Welcome to America!.....
Motown is a business, not a 'social services ' center..

**detmotownguy** · 10-21-2012, 12:02 PM

Originally Posted by Jimi LaLumia

it IS a fact of life that if you accept employment with a 'boss' and sign an agreement,and while getting a house and a cadillac, furs and clothes, etc be made by the 'boss' into a world famous 'name', and then not show up for work or show up in bad condition[[because you're unhappy with the direction that the 'boss' has chosen), try to undermine a successful business project, publicly yell, scream at and threaten the 'boss' in public, etc....then you will be FIRED!... Welcome to America!.....
Motown is a business, not a 'social services ' center..

Of course Motown is a business, but to run an effective business there are elementary rules that must be followed. Businesses are responsible is for maintaining positive group dynamics, effectively addressing group conflict, being open to diverse points of view from team members. And yes, most successful businesses do provide services to address employee issues. But Motown had a very autocratic style of leadership that did not lend itself to employer/employee relations.

**marv2** · 10-21-2012, 12:34 PM

Originally Posted by 144man

Just trying to understand what point you're making. So you mean it's just a fact of life that things happen like that?

It is a fact of life.

**Jimi LaLumia** · 10-21-2012, 04:09 PM

"The Supremes", in business terms, was not a business 'group', but a product, to be sold, established [[the list of names Flo chose from was a list provided by Motown) and marketed by the 'boss'...The boss and the company determines the direction, look, style of the product... the 'poor Flo" people [[of which I was one , until things got so ridiculous) try to equate Flo as being an equal to Berry Gordy.. well guess what? she wasn't, everyone from Diana Ross ,Marvin , Stevie and Michael Jackson on down found that they worked for, not with Berry Gordy and Motown..I luv Flo as an artist and wonder what would have happened if she 'went with the flow" instead of fighting every step of the way, but the bottom line is that she blew it, her choice, she left the 'boss' no other options except to protect 'the product', ***THE SUPREMES**, and the show went on without her...period...

**midnightman** · 10-21-2012, 04:52 PM

Florence wanted to be an R&B singer but Diana and Mary were more content in being crossover pop stars because Berry had given them the opportunity to reach beyond their label mates. Florence was never happy though. I think had she not had been sexually assaulted at 16 she would've dealt with it better. But there was always tension between the three of them. Florence once mentioned that she, Mary and Diana weren't as close as they were when they started. She just didn't mentioned Diana, she put Mary in the picture too. She felt she had no one to support her. Like David Ruffin, Florence had a lot of demons and they weren't gonna be easily resolved in such a tight ship as Motown was.

**Roberta75** · 10-21-2012, 06:50 PM

Flo is at peace now and with her Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Is there any point in rehashimg this again?

Roberta

**marv2** · 10-21-2012, 08:51 PM

Originally Posted by Roberta75

Flo is at peace now and with her Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Is there any point in rehashimg this again?

Roberta

Yes! Florence Ballard was a favorite of many of us here. If you don't like our discussing her, then go somewhere else!

**luke** · 10-21-2012, 11:01 PM

I thought on Soulful Detroit we discuss Motown on the Motown Board. Have I missed something?. Is there a list of what can and cannot be discussed? I guess I missed something.

**Roberta75** · 10-22-2012, 09:55 AM

Originally Posted by luke

I thought on Soulful Detroit we discuss Motown on the Motown Board. Have I missed something?. Is there a list of what can and cannot be discussed? I guess I missed something.

There's a lot you miss my dear but that's a whole nother story. LOL

Roberta

**Kamasu_Jr** · 10-22-2012, 10:51 AM

Originally Posted by Roberta75

Flo is at peace now and with her Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Is there any point in rehashimg this again?

Roberta

I agree. It's a tired and old subject that makes no sense rehashing again and again, in my opinion.

**motony** · 10-22-2012, 10:57 AM

in all the groups at Motown there would have been stand-ins for a sick or injured member espcially a group as big as the Supremes as too many peoples income is dependent on their personal appearances.There would NOT be stand ins for the lead singer, though.

**luke** · 10-22-2012, 11:14 AM

Someone at Motown said Telma Hopkins filled in for Diana for an engagement. Also, The Supremes appeared without Jean Terrell for an engagement.

**Roberta75** · 10-22-2012, 12:00 PM

Originally Posted by Kamasu_Jr

I agree. It's a tired and old subject that makes no sense rehashing again and again, in my opinion.

I'm with you Kamasu. All we know about Flo's leaving or being fired from the Supremes is 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 10th hand and even then it is all subjective. The woman is free from all that now and in Heaven with God and Jesus Christ her Lord and Savior. I doubt Florence Ballard [[IMO) would want to be labeled a victim which a few in this here forum try to make her.

Have a blessed day.

Yours, with every good wish.

Roberta

**Roberta75** · 10-22-2012, 12:02 PM

Originally Posted by luke

Someone at Motown said Telma Hopkins filled in for Diana for an engagement. Also, The Supremes appeared without Jean Terrell for an engagement.

That's quite a bombshell you've dropped on us. I'm going to have a real hard time concentrating on my work today after hearing this. LOL

Roberta

**marv2** · 10-22-2012, 12:12 PM

Originally Posted by Roberta75

That's quite a bombshell you've dropped on us. I'm going to have a real hard time concentrating on my work today after hearing this. LOL

Roberta

Oh come on, you know we give you a reason to live....... hehehehehe!

**marv2** · 10-22-2012, 12:17 PM

Originally Posted by Roberta75

I'm with you Kamasu. All we know about Flo's leaving or being fired from the Supremes is 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 10th hand and even then it is all subjective. The woman is free from all that now and in Heaven with God and Jesus Christ her Lord and Savior. I doubt Florence Ballard [[IMO) would want to be labeled a victim which a few in this here forum try to make her.

Have a blessed day.

Yours, with every good wish.

Roberta

You blatantly contradict yourself right out in the open. Subjective? Then how would you know how Florence Ballard wants to be perceived?

**luke** · 10-22-2012, 01:39 PM

LOL every good wish as long as you agree.

**marv2** · 10-22-2012, 02:34 PM

Originally Posted by luke

LOL every good wish as long as you agree.

hehehehehehehehehe............!

smark21 · 10-22-2012, 07:41 PM

Poor, poor Flo

**midnightman** · 10-22-2012, 07:58 PM

Originally Posted by Roberta75

Flo is at peace now and with her Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Is there any point in rehashimg this again?

Roberta

I know... people are still trying to find people to blame. Flo's been with Jesus for 36 years. Why bring it up and again make heroes and villains out of people?