The Marvelettes Unsung

[BayouMotownMan]

I am only 10 min into this show and I was surprised and elated to see Wanda Rogers on TV. She doesn't much look or sound like she used to, but my heart is happy that she was well enough to participate in this. So far, great show.

[pj1]

I am only 10 min into this show and I was surprised and elated to see Wanda Rogers on TV. She doesn't much look or sound like she used to, but my heart is happy that she was well enough to participate in this. So far, great show.

So glad that they chose to interview Georgia , Wyanetta & Katherine as well for authenticity.

[franjoy56]

So glad that they chose to interview Georgia , Wyanetta & Katherine as well for authenticity.

Unfortunately the Marvelettes original lead singer due to her passing was not featured, and she is surely missed.

[franjoy56]

I am enoying the show 40 minutes in, but had Gladys been living when this show was taped it would have been so much more, I would have also like to hear what Georgianna had to say as well, Katherine and Juanita gave some great comments, and it was nice to see Wanda featured for the first time in years.

[RossHolloway]

Wow. What a great show! It certainly answered some question about what really happened to the group. I couldn't believe that they got Ann Bogan to give an interview, it was great to see and hear her.

[luke]

And Ann Bogan interviewed. Comprehensive. VG job. Mary Wilson so supportive. Great to see more and hear Wynetta. Gladys one hell of a woman and mother!

[smark21]

Very good overview. Enjoyed seeing raw film footage of the Dutch photo shoot.

[Jimi LaLumia]

powerful stuff..truth be told...

[skooldem1]

I thing overall it was a very good show.

[RossHolloway]

Glad that they mentioned the two recent box sets at the end. Nicely done.

[stephanie]

This is one Unsung that should have been 2 or even three hours. I would love to see the footage that didnt make it. Great to see Wanda I was shocked! She didnt look as bad as I thought she would and she seemed pretty coherent. Oh the footage of them in Holland? I think that is where they were is priceless! I wish that we could have seen more live concert footage but this was a dream to see Wandas sisters and Ann Bogan! I have heard they interview the subjects for at least 2 hours each Im sure there is more to this story but it was great! Come on UNSUNG give us the Marvelettes the directors cut! Love it Love it! Oh and Katherine was forthcoming and wonderful as usual.

[marv2]

All I can say is Wow! This has to be my now favorite of all the Unsung episodes I have watched. I thought they did a great job on the Sylvers, but they did and excellent job on the Marvelettes! They started off a little too heavy I thought. I was surprised that so many participated. What made this show so special is that they included the children of Georgeanna Tillman, Gladys Horton etc. Seeing Joe Billingsea on national television is always something very special. Robert Bateman, Mary Wilson, Eddie Holland,Georgia Dobbins,Janie Bradford, Bowser, and on and on.

I use to go to the fish frys in the Inkster High gymnasium. LOL! I thoroughly enjoyed this one. I only wished Smokey and Bobby Rogers had been included.

[skooldem1]

It was really great to see so many of the ladies. Of course there were many silent voices. I think it gave a good overview of the group in 50 minutes or so.

[RossHolloway]

Well this was the first time that I've ever heard that Wanda had a substance abuse problem, and was missing performances. I think Bobby Rodgers would have added great insight into what happened to Wanda.

[luke]

Marv-dont you think that for some reason the more" ingrained"/company Motown people eg Berry, Smokey...shy away from the Marvelettes?

[marv2]

And Ann Bogan interviewed. Comprehensive. VG job. Mary Wilson so supportive. Great to see more and hear Wynetta. Gladys one hell of a woman and mother!

I was surprised to see Ann Bogan on the program. Had they not put her name up, I would not have recognized her at all.

[daviddesper]

I agree with all of you that this episode was sooooooo much more comprehensive than any others we have seen. I was very impressed with the vast number of people they chose to interview. They could have really cut corners and only featured half the folks they did and half the comments they did and it would still have been great.

I loved Katherine's obvious sense of humor and frankness. She really told it like it happened and didn't pull any punches. I too was glad that Wanda was featured in the present. I really figured that they would have to gloss right over her and use only old clips.

But by far the most satisfying part of the whole show to me was when they exposed that rip-off of all the fake groups. The public needs to know more about that sort of thing so that it can be stopped once and for all. I saw some Fake-a-lettes myself in a show in the mid 80's and they were so bad it was unbelievable. I wish I had the knowledge then that I have now to have exposed them for the frauds they were.

[marv2]

Marv-dont you think that for some reason the more" ingrained"/company Motown people eg Berry, Smokey...shy away from the Marvelettes?

You're being too kind, hehehehehehehe.... If I were to tell you how Gladys Horton characterized it, it could start WWIII here. But as one of their principle writers, I would have thought that Smokey would have at least volunteered a few memories.

[marv2]

Oh I forgot, it was good to see Otis Williams participating in this episode. I like that several of their teachers and school administration were able to share their thoughts. The only thing I would have added would have been some of the old school Detroit DJ's if there are any still around and have them talk about the Marvelettes initial success. I only saw them perform once back when "Don't Mess With Bill" was their latest release.

[Bokiluis]

I don't own any Marvelettes or Martha Reeves and The Vandellas' studio albums, only compilations. Any thoughts why it took The Supremes to start selling albums even though the ladies enjoyed some big hit singles including, of course, a #1 pop single in "Please Mr. Postman"?
[[The Marvelettes only charted with their first "Greatest Hits" at a disappointing #84 on the Pop Album Chart, faring better on the R&B Album chart at #4, "The Pink Album" made a little noise. And Martha Reeves and The Vandellas #50 on their first Greatest Hits, while their studio albums all hovered below the Top 100 Pop Album chart).

Of course, the R&B Album chart meant more back then because it reflected sales from a lot more mom & pop stores than say in the last 10-15 years as a lover of R&B music now tends to shop in the Walmart, Target and Best Buy big box stores, with the disappearance of more & more mom & pop stores.

[caliluv]

I thought this was a good program too. Since I had just been reading about Ann Bogan, I was really glad to see her on the program. I was also glad that it was mentioned when Florence Ballard was a Marvelette for a brief time. I'm still raising my brow about the story behind "Where Did Our Love Go"

[randy_russi]

Bokiluis, to try to answer your question regarding album sales--at the time the Marvelettes hit big, it was a singles
market, meaning 45s. LPs didn't really become a focus until the late 60s.

[RossHolloway]

Just as a side note: both Smokey Robinson and Berry Gordy were interviewed for the Unsung episode on Teena Marie...

[marv2]

Just as a side note: both Smokey Robinson and Berry Gordy were interviewed for the Unsung episode on Teena Marie...

Interestingly, neither participated in the Unsung episode on Florence Ballard whom they both also knew well. I know Berry was not a part of the David Ruffin episode, but can't remember if Smokey participated.

[RossHolloway]

Is anyone else either shocked or sadden by the number of Motown artist that we now know either had a substance abuse problem or battled problems with alcohol? If Wanda had a drug problem during the mid-late 60's and beyond, does it not make one wonder about her then husband Bobby Rogers or the other Miracles? This episode of Unsung alluded to the fact that Wanda was "protected" thru her husband and Smokey Robinson. Was it just an open secret at Motown, that they just kept from the public? I would find it hard to believe that Berry or the other executives at Motown didn't know about these problems.

Marvin Gaye
David Ruffin
Paul Williams
Florence Ballard
Wanda Rogers
Levi Stubbs

[stephanie]

Did anyone notice how Katherine looked into the camera and said "We were supposed to be a family?!! By the way does anyone know if Wanda can walk? I saw a couple of times she was in a wheelchair.

[marv2]

Is anyone else either shocked or sadden by the number of Motown artist that we now know either had a substance abuse problem or battled problems with alcohol? If Wanda had a drug problem during the mid-late 60's and beyond, does it not make one wonder about her then husband Bobby Rogers or the other Miracles? This episode of Unsung alluded to the fact that Wanda was "protected" thru her husband and Smokey Robinson. Was it just an open secret at Motown, that they just kept from the public? I would find it hard to believe that Berry or the other executives at Motown didn't know about these problems.

Marvin Gaye
David Ruffin
Paul Williams
Florence Ballard
Wanda Rogers
Levi Stubbs

Why did you add Levi's name to that list?

[milven]

Why did you add Levi's name to that list?

I have the same question. I never heard anything negative about Levi or any of the original Tops and always admired how they all stayed together until death or illness seperated them.

[theboyfromxtown]

I still have a late 60's newspaper clipping reporting that Levi Stubbs was caught with drugs whilst in London. The report didn't say any more other than that he would be appearing in court.

[theboyfromxtown]

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=K...london&f=false

It was reported in Jet.....June 11 1970....there's also some other interesting bits about the Supremes on that link

[carlo]

It was fantastic seeing the original ladies back on TV and getting their props. I was also very surprised to see Wanda and Ann being interviewed. A real treat. It's such a shame that Gladys wasn't around for this. Rest in peace.

[RossHolloway]

Wow thanks for the link. For some reason I had always thought that Levi had been stopped for marijuana while in England...very interesting indeed. And I would assume that's quite a bit of coke for that time period... I wonder if this little incident had any impact on the groups relationship with Motown....

Interesting two bits on the Supremes and the one on the Jackson 5 as well...

[theboyfromxtown]

Is anyone else either shocked or sadden by the number of Motown artist that we now know either had a substance abuse problem or battled problems with alcohol? If Wanda had a drug problem during the mid-late 60's and beyond, does it not make one wonder about her then husband Bobby Rogers or the other Miracles? This episode of Unsung alluded to the fact that Wanda was "protected" thru her husband and Smokey Robinson. Was it just an open secret at Motown, that they just kept from the public? I would find it hard to believe that Berry or the other executives at Motown didn't know about these problems.

Marvin Gaye
David Ruffin
Paul Williams
Florence Ballard
Wanda Rogers
Levi Stubbs

Motown definitely knew something about the Marvelettes that they weren't prepared to let on publicly. When an application was made to them to set up a UK Marvelettes fan club in the late 60's - it was discouraged. If we can get WestGrandBoulevard to give the Word Association thread a break, he will be able to tell you what happened.

[RossHolloway]

Motown definitely knew something about the Marvelettes that they weren't prepared to let on publicly. When an application was made to them to set up a UK Marvelettes fan club in the late 60's - it was discouraged. If we can get WestGrandBoulevard to give the Word Association thread a break, he will be able to tell you what happened.

Wow, that is some bit of news...

[nosey]

Kat, cleared up something for me: the Marvelettes just faded away. Perfect opportunity for someone else to trademark the name as apparently Berry Gordy couldn't have cared less about them as his focus was on the Supremes. I was shocked to see how bad Wanda looked. Sorry but I was both shocked and saddened at the same time. [[Ducking for cover)

[Bokiluis]

Bokiluis, to try to answer your question regarding album sales--at the time the Marvelettes hit big, it was a singles
market, meaning 45s. LPs didn't really become a focus until the late 60s.

Of course, I know that, just like it has returned to a singles market again thanks to downloads on iTunes. Explain The Supremes and The Temptations album sales if that were completely accurate. Once The Beatles hit in 1963, albums became more and more relevant. Sigh. Had you said that The Supremes appealed to a more mainstream audience that might explain the success they had with the "Where Did Our Love Go" album, 4 wks at #2, reportedly selling over 3 million albums in the states alone.
That said, "Unsung" has brought one greatest hits compilation to #10 R&B on Amazon and moving #110-#69 on iTunes R&B album chart. Felicidades ladies!

[RossHolloway]

Kat, cleared up something for me: the Marvelettes just faded away. Perfect opportunity for someone else to trademark the name as apparently Berry Gordy couldn't have cared less about them as his focus was on the Supremes. I was shocked to see how bad Wanda looked. Sorry but I was both shocked and saddened at the same time. [[Ducking for cover)

Well the episode definitely gave some insight into her decline, and I think most fans were just happy to see that she was well enough to participate in the show [[at least I was) and it made me smile when she said that the fans still loved the Marvelettes. I'm glad that all the Marvelettes know that they are greatly appreciated and far from being forgotten.

The one rumor that I was hoping that the show would have addressed was about what happened to Wanda while on tour in Europe in 1965.

[kenneth]

It really was a great show, just about as fair and balanced as I think we could expect. I'm anxious to see other episodes now.

[RossHolloway]

It really was a great show, just about as fair and balanced as I think we could expect. I'm anxious to see other episodes now.

My favorites have been on Teena Marie and Tammi Terrell. The one on Tammi just broke my heart all over again.

[copley]

Is anyone else either shocked or sadden by the number of Motown artist that we now know either had a substance abuse problem or battled problems with alcohol? If Wanda had a drug problem during the mid-late 60's and beyond, does it not make one wonder about her then husband Bobby Rogers or the other Miracles? This episode of Unsung alluded to the fact that Wanda was "protected" thru her husband and Smokey Robinson. Was it just an open secret at Motown, that they just kept from the public? I would find it hard to believe that Berry or the other executives at Motown didn't know about these problems.

Marvin Gaye
David Ruffin
Paul Williams
Florence Ballard
Wanda Rogers
Levi Stubbs

Add

Martha Reeves
Paul Williams
Brenda Holloway - prescription drugs
Michael Jackson - prescription drugs
Otis Williams
Rick James
Teena Marie
etc, etc

[smark21]

For me the highlights of the show were getting to hear the living members of the group speak, especially Wanda and Ann Bogan. I enjoyed seeing the clips of Gladys in performance in the late 80’s doing Too Many Fish with an Island flavor. She was very talented and creative and it’s a damn shame she didn’t get as many opportunities to perform as she deserved.

I’m glad Berry and Smokey weren’t on. The show is only 45 minutes or so not including the commercials. This was a chance for The Marvelettes and their family members to tell their story. Berry and Smokey have received plenty of camera time in their lives. It would be great if this episode were released on DVD with bonus footage showing more of the interviews that were conducted for this episode, especially of Katherine, Ann, Georgia, Wyanetta, and Wanda’s family.

One of the most seering moments from the episode was Katherine’s anger at being asked to participate in the photo shoot of the Return of the Marvelettes album cover. Good for her for turning it down. Her anger really articulated the problem fans have with the presence of the Andantes on Motown girl group records in place of the real members because the official members were denied a chance to show their talent on the recordings. And from Katherine’s reaction, you can tell it still burns her that she was not asked to come to the studio to sing on those songs.

[pj1]

[QUOTE=smark21;117874
One of the most seering moments from the episode was Katherine’s anger at being asked to participate in the photo shoot of the Return of the Marvelettes album cover. Good for her for turning it down. Her anger really articulated the problem fans have with the presence of the Andantes on Motown girl group records in place of the real members because the official members were denied a chance to show their talent on the recordings. And from Katherine’s reaction, you can tell it still burns her that she was not asked to come to the studio to sing on those songs.[/QUOTE]

The [[retread) songs that Smokey recorded with Wanda & the Andantes were intended to be used on Wanda's solo album. Sometime after the songs were completed, Motown decided that most people would not recognize Wanda's name. It was then decided to market the lp as The Return Of The Marvelettes rather than a solo Wanda effort. That would explain the absence of Kat & Ann. Think of Diana's first solo album- it would be quite odd if Mary & Cindy provided backgrounds.
It was insane of Motown execs to want Katherine and Ann to pose for the cover photo. If they wanted to market the album as by the Marvelettes, they should have brought Kat & Ann into the studio to record backgrounds that would either replace or be blended with the Andantes background.

[franjoy56]

The [[retread) songs that Smokey recorded with Wanda & the Andantes were intended to be used on Wanda's solo album. Sometime after the songs were completed, Motown decided that most people would not recognize Wanda's name. It was then decided to market the lp as The Return Of The Marvelettes rather than a solo Wanda effort. That would explain the absence of Kat & Ann. Think of Diana's first solo album- it would be quite odd if Mary & Cindy provided backgrounds.
It was insane of Motown execs to want Katherine and Ann to pose for the cover photo. If they wanted to market the album as by the Marvelettes, they should have brought Kat & Ann into the studio to record backgrounds that would either replace or be blended with the Andantes background.

If they decided that the album was going to be a marvelette album instead of a wanda solo then Kat and Ann should have been overdubbed on at least half of the the tracks, and by the way Mary and Cindy appear on Diana's first album with the A's on the track "These Things will keep me lovin you". I tryly enjoyed the Marvelettes unsung i think it was the best unsung show I ever seen. It was great to see all of the living Marvelettest participate, and also the children of the marvelettes as well, and it was great to see Juanita tell how she felt and of course Katherine was right on. If Glady was alive and participated in this episode they would have had to edit a lot out because she was truly angered by her inability to perform thanks to the gaags put on her by Larry Marshak, and it was made possible by Motown selling the name to Marsahk, I am not going to reveal who sold it but Gladys certainly knows. Rest in peace Gladys the Marvelettes mainstay: No one can ever take away what she gave the Marvelettes..

[marv2]

I still have a late 60's newspaper clipping reporting that Levi Stubbs was caught with drugs whilst in London. The report didn't say any more other than that he would be appearing in court.

That wasn't even his man. Name five music artists that didn't smoke or at least tried some weed in the 60's or 70's. Levi was not a druggie, addict or anything remotely close!

[marv2]

Is anyone else either shocked or sadden by the number of Motown artist that we now know either had a substance abuse problem or battled problems with alcohol? If Wanda had a drug problem during the mid-late 60's and beyond, does it not make one wonder about her then husband Bobby Rogers or the other Miracles? This episode of Unsung alluded to the fact that Wanda was "protected" thru her husband and Smokey Robinson. Was it just an open secret at Motown, that they just kept from the public? I would find it hard to believe that Berry or the other executives at Motown didn't know about these problems.

Marvin Gaye
David Ruffin
Paul Williams
Florence Ballard
Wanda Rogers
Levi Stubbs

Why did you leave off Smokey Robinson, Diana Ross, Rick James, Teena Marie and others off of your list? Why pick out just a select few? Whether Motown knew or not, I have to believe that as long as these artists did their job [[make money for Motown), then it was up to the individual to deal with their personal issues. I am pretty sure Motown did not have an EAP program.

[marv2]

If they decided that the album was going to be a marvelette album instead of a wanda solo then Kat and Ann should have been overdubbed on at least half of the the tracks, and by the way Mary and Cindy appear on Diana's first album with the A's on the track "These Things will keep me lovin you". I tryly enjoyed the Marvelettes unsung i think it was the best unsung show I ever seen. It was great to see all of the living Marvelettest participate, and also the children of the marvelettes as well, and it was great to see Juanita tell how she felt and of course Katherine was right on. If Glady was alive and participated in this episode they would have had to edit a lot out because she was truly angered by her inability to perform thanks to the gaags put on her by Larry Marshak, and it was made possible by Motown selling the name to Marsahk, I am not going to reveal who sold it but Gladys certainly knows. Rest in peace Gladys the Marvelettes mainstay: No one can ever take away what she gave the Marvelettes..

I heard who sold the name too.

[marv2]

The [[retread) songs that Smokey recorded with Wanda & the Andantes were intended to be used on Wanda's solo album. Sometime after the songs were completed, Motown decided that most people would not recognize Wanda's name. It was then decided to market the lp as The Return Of The Marvelettes rather than a solo Wanda effort. That would explain the absence of Kat & Ann. Think of Diana's first solo album- it would be quite odd if Mary & Cindy provided backgrounds.
It was insane of Motown execs to want Katherine and Ann to pose for the cover photo. If they wanted to market the album as by the Marvelettes, they should have brought Kat & Ann into the studio to record backgrounds that would either replace or be blended with the Andantes background.

By not bringing Kat and Ann Bogan in to record the album, they did not have to pay them either!

[marv2]

Add

Martha Reeves
Paul Williams
Brenda Holloway - prescription drugs
Michael Jackson - prescription drugs
Otis Williams
Rick James
Teena Marie
etc, etc

add Diana Ross - drugs and alcohol
Smokey Robinson - Crack
All the Debarges - every illegal drug available to them
Mary- cocaine
Stevie and on and on. Why do this list to begin with?

[lakedistrictlad1]

Is this programme available to watch online for us folks outside of the U.S?

[theboyfromxtown]

http://tvone.tv/unsung-videos?pid=mh...u7vh6x8HeuQv0e

Phil - You will love it