Orlando's Sag War Fare

[jsmith]

Anyone know anything about this group that cut the great double-sider 45 "Don't Be So Jive / Girl You Better Change" released on Libra.
The "... Jive" side is a big UK NS spin at present & the uva side has also gained plays in UK soul clubs in recent times.
With a name like Sag War Fare, they must have made some sort of impression on the 60's musis scene down in Florida .
...... But did they ??
Attachment 5049

[jsmith]

Done some checking on the web & it seems that Bee Jay Studios [[where the Sag War Fare tracks were cut) was quite famous back in the day.
Bee Jay Recording Studios became the first 8 track studio in Florida in 1967, beating out Criteria Studios in Miami. The owners of the studio created Tener & Hype Records + Bee Jay Records to release their recordings on. Lots of local garage bands [[The Barons, The Soul Tenders, Rockin' Roadrunners, Flower Power, Little Willie and The Adolescents, Ron and the Starfire) cut there, as did some country artists & a couple of gospel outfits [[The Trumpets of Faith, Sister Richards & Brother Broxton).
Initially the studio was located on Alden Road, but in late 1969 a new studio and offices were found at 2500 Silver Star Road.
In later years, the likes of Gladys Knight, Cameo and Michael Jackson would record there.

[motony]

don't know anything about that group or label BUT do know about Bee-Jay Studios on Silverstar Road...next to the Lays Potatoe Chip Factory.Was with Bobby Byrd at a James Brown session there, also knew the owner Eric Tener Schabacker. They had one soul release by Paul Sindab called I'm Uptight" but a pop single by Suzanne Goddard "Anything Can Happen" on the Tener label made some noise locally & in Suzannes hometown of Mibile, Al. Had kind of a "Downtown" sound.I think alot of commercials & ad jingles were recorded there.I knew about the Cameo producer doing something there but not about Gladys Knight or Michael Jackson.

[motony]

my brother reminded me that Little Wille & The Adolecents was Erics' group. The JB recording there was a commercial but I can't remember for what.

[jsmith]

Seems that there were very few soul artists based out of Orlando in the 60's ... though soul recordings were cut at both Bee Jay Studios and at Pine Hills Recording Studio.
Some gospel tracks [[see above) were cut at Bee Jay Studios.
The locally based soul acts were Buddy McKnight, the Soul Tenders [[a white group who hired Reverend Billy Jackson as their lead singer) and the Universals [[wrongly credited as the Universouls on one 45 release.)
The area had its own soul radio stn -- WOKB [[Tiger Radio) but even this didn't seem to prompt local blacks into becoming singers.

[jsmith]

FROM earlier SDF threads .........
In Central Florida was WOKB-Tiger Radio with DJs Jay Baby Robinson and Little Daddy -- Melvin Grace. Melvin always preferred to be called "an almighty record spinner" rather than a disc jockey. In the late 60s/early 70s he was the
highest paid disc jockey in the Central Florida area.

James “Jay Baby” Robinson passed away peacefully at his home in Winter Park, FL on July 27, 2009 at the age of 69. Born in Perry, FL, Jay Baby grew up in an era historically known as “race music” and throughout his life he was a key figure in promoting R&B music artists throughout the state of Florida.
As a young entrepreneur, he opened Jay’s Records in Orlando, and along with Soul Train Record, Platter Shack and Jazzette’s Music, these “mom and pop” retailers served the local community. Jay’s Records provided a stage for the promotion of many great talents in their early careers, including James Brown, Smokey Robinson, Aretha Franklin, Ike & Tina Turner, Ray Charles, Dionne Warwick, Buddy McKnight, Marvin Gaye, The Main Ingredient, Johnny Mathis, Ella Washington and many others.
Jay Baby’s outgoing personality and growing reputation for music promotion led him into broadcasting, beginning as a local news broadcaster based in Clearwater, FL. He joined WOKB – Orlando as an on-air personality with TIGER IN THE MORNING, his daily broadcast. Along with the WOKB team, Joe Bullard, Marvin Zanders, Nick Mickels, Guy Rozier and Melvin Grace, they rose in popularity throughout the South East region where they utilized their voices to broadcast to the masses, uniting community action, promoting civil rights groups and organizations, advertising local businesses and joining with other community leaders in rallying the masses to “Say It Loud, I’m Black and I’m Proud”.
LIVE AND IN COLOR was Jay Baby’s Moniker and connecting nationally with other great African-American broadcasters and promoters during the 1960’s and 70’s, Jack “The Rapper” Gibson, Rufas Thomas, Martha Jean “The Queen” Washington, Joe “Butterball” Tamburro, and Vonny Sweeny, collectively breaking down “race music” and creating the foundation for the introduction of the Soul Music format.
It is these black music pioneers of Soul Music that opened the doors today for the expansion of Black Music formats R&B, Gospel, Hip Hop, Blues and Jazz to become the most popular music formats worldwide. It is with profound sadness that we let go, but with great joy of what Jay Baby left behind…spinning records into gold.

[chalky]

They were apparently in the forces as you are probably aware from reading Soul Source. SAG = Surface Action Group.

[jsmith]

Haven't seen the Soul Source thread, Chalky ...
... whats the thread title ??
Guess they weren't 'locals' then, just soldiers posted to a base in Florida who formed a group & recorded whilst still down there.
Was hoping for some input on here from Randy Russi who grew up / lives in the area.

[motony]

YES, I knew Melvin [[Little Daddy)Grace very well, also knew Jay "Baby" Robinson but not as well as Melvin. "Little Daddy" did record hops all over Central Florida. Jay had a record shop in the Washington Shores area of Orlando. WOKB, Tiger Radio, was on from sunset to sundown. Jay had the Tiger in The Morning Show, then there was gospel music for about 2 hrs with Melvin Grace & then the Tiger In The Afternoon Show with Little Daddy[[Melvin Grace).Melvin passed away a few years ago, I have his obituary at home somewhere. I will let my brother, Randy know about this thread.

[jsmith]

If these guys were sailors / naval commandos who took their name from their military duties, then I guess they would have been based in the Jacksonville area & would just have been in Orlando for R&R purposes [[or just to record their tracks at Bee Jay).
Do SAG units [[a grouping of attack vessels) have a high profile with 'civilian' Floridians ... if so then these guys could have been non-military types who just thought it was a cool group name to use.

[randy_russi]

Hi jsmith, I never heard of the group or the label. Yes, well aware of BeeJay and Pine Hills recording studios. Buddy
McKnight & the Soul Brothers had a local hit on the Pine Hills label, "Baby Baby" b/w "I've Got To Move".
As Tony stated, Eric Tener Shawback married a girl who lived a few doors down from us in the '60s. This is when
he got his label started and later opened his studio. Tener and Hype were his labels.

WOKB was 1600 am radio, Wokb was none as Tiger Radio. Jay and Melvin were GREAT!!! Sun up to sundown, but
then about 9pm or a little later we tuned in to WLAC in Nashville. We could pick it up and it was great with John R,
Hoss Man, Gene Nobles. Randy's Record Shop and Ernie's Record Mart were big sponsors and were known for
sending records out all over the world.

[jsmith]

RE: WLAC in Nashville. We could pick it up and it was great with John R,
Hoss Man, Gene Nobles. Randy's Record Shop and Ernie's Record Mart were big sponsors and were known for
sending records out all over the world.
Randy R, I used to get 45's delivered from Randy's Record Shop back in the late 60's / early 70's.
Along with the 45's I ordered, the shop used to send me their record catalogue; it was about A5 size & had around 60 to 80 pages of [[mainly) soul 45's ... all the stuff the shop had in stock.
Wish I'd kept some of those Randy's Rec Shop booklets !!
The Libra label seemed to be owned by Grady Orso ... anyone heard of him & know how he made his money [[it obviously wasn't from selling the records he released on his label).

[randy_russi]

jsmith, all the djs on WLAC were white! The guy who did the news, Don Whitehead, was actually black. All of them
sounded opposite from the race they actually were! Those were great moments of listening!

Check out limestone lounge for more on the Florida soul music scene. Try: www.liimestonerecords.com and then
go to the lounge.

[jsmith]

Randy, already checked Jeff's site ....... no mention anywhere on there [[that I can see) of SAG War Fare, Libra or Grady Orso.

[jsmith]

Did this 'blue eyed' soul guy play many shows down your way back in the 60's ??
Attachment 5065

[randy_russi]

Oh yes, he diid! He was a top draw lounge act and did well in Vegas. He was out of Miami and did record for the
King label in Cinncinatti, Ohio. He had a minor hit on Mercury in about '66 or '67 called "Get Down With It".

[motony]

Wayne Cochran & his band TRIED to be the white James Brown[[from my perspective back then), ofcourse I was way too young to get into nightclubs but Wayne Cochran & the C.C. Riders were based out of The Barn in Miami, I don't remember them playing orlando until early 70's...Orlando was redneck & country in the 60's, I had a fit when my parents moved back up here in '64.Coming from the hip Miami area, I was jus too cool for these rednecks up here, LOL. One song By Wayne Cochran that got airplay on WOKB up here was "I'm White[[I'm Alright)" I got a kick out of that.

[jsmith]

At the end of the 60's, lots of 'oldies acts' were getting gigs in the white hotels on Miami Beach ...
... the Drifters played gigs at the Wreck Bar at Castaways Motel ....
... Herb Reed & his Other Group [[i.e. not the Platters) played the Crossway Airport Inn
and the Coasters played a gig up the road at Soul City, 977 NW 17th Avenue in Fort Lauderdale ....

Attachment 5066

I guess that like Vegas, Miami was a 'happy hunting ground' for oldies artists at the end of the 60's & thru the 70's..
Which soul acts got to play in Orlando in the 70's .. AND .. what were the clubs that booked them ??

[motony]

There were 3 major Black clubs in the Orlando area....The Quarterback Club on Church St., Club Eaton in Eatonville, & Club 436 in Altamonte Springs. We ofcourse had Mary Wells play at all 3 of those during early 70's, all the major soul acts played Club Eaton and Club 436. In the late 50's-'64 James Brown played Club Eaton and even the Deluxe Bar in Sanford.In '73 there was a large club called The Hospital Lounge that we had Mary Wells booked for 3 nights & did well.

[jsmith]

......... Some info on Club Eaton ...........
EATONVILLE — In the 1950s and '60s Club Eaton was one of the nightspots that helped boost the popularity of musicians such as James Brown, Fats Domino, B.B. King, Aretha Franklin and Tina Turner. ''During the 1960s, before integration, Club Eaton was booming because it was one of the few places in Central Florida where blacks could sit down, socialize and enjoy alcoholic beverages,'' said Harry Bing, managing owner of Mr. B's nightclub. Bing's family bought the old Club Eaton and turned it into Mr. B's. Club Eaton was built in 1952 by Condon Merritt, a black Altamonte Springs entrepreneur. As patriarch for the Winwood community near Altamonte Springs, Merritt, who died in 1973, parlayed a fruit picker's salary and legalized gambling just after World War II into nightclubs and country stores and a real estate empire in Orange and Seminole counties.

''A nightclub is an escape place,'' Bing said. When blacks were barred from going to many white establishments, Club Eaton was a place where they could go to enjoy themselves, meet people and show off their dates, he said. ''People would come from miles around to Club Eaton,'' said Ron Rogers, assistant to the mayor of Eatonville. Anywhere in Central Florida when the town of Eatonville was mentioned, people would know it was the home of Club Eaton, he said. When James Brown performed at the club, there was standing room only, Rogers added. Dress codes were always strict at Club Eaton. Men had to wear coats and ties and women had to wear dresses. ''You hardly ever get a fight out of a black guy who's dressed up,'' said F.M. Otey, a longtime resident who is compiling a history of Eatonville. In addition, he said there were seldom problems in the club because Eatonville had a strict police department.

The popularity of Club Eaton began to wane with the start of desegregation. Eventually the club stopped booking expensive, big-name performers as more patrons started going to integrated nightclubs, said Eugene Holt, who managed the club for the late William ''Billy'' Bozeman, a former owner. After the Bings bought the club from Bozemen in 1983 they spent more than $106,000 to renovate and equip Mr. B's. ''We did most of the inside construction, and what we didn't do, we supervised,'' Bing said. Bing said the club at 426 Kennedy Blvd. has about 6,500 square feet and a mailing list of more than 1,000. The club caters to a white-collar clientele. ''We even have a steady group of white clients because they know we stay open until 4 a.m. and they feel safe because the police department is right across the street,'' Bing said. Bing's family also owns the Rainbow Club, another nightclub on the west end of Kennedy Boulevard.

[randy_russi]

Wow! jsmith, you have done your homework!!!!

[jsmith]

Randy, all the info is available on-line ....
BTW, wish I could still buy 1960's 45's & LP's at these prices ..........
Attachment 5071

[jsmith]

Seems black acts got to play quite a bit in other Florida locations ......
Lots of promotion for the top acts on radio stations such as Jacksonville's WAPE.
Local acts like Little Jake [[Mitchell) & the Blenders [[Jock Mitchell to Detroit music fans) played gigs all over the state [[did he do any / many in the Orlando area ?).
But national hit acts such as Bobby Moore & the Rhythm Aces played gigs in locations such as Callahan.

Attachment 5117

[jsmith]

A piece about WAPE radio stn [[& the Florida music scene) back in the day ....
http://reading.academia.edu/MichaelR...s_of_the_South

[randy_russi]

I remember WAPE in Jacksonville and I do remember Bobby Moore & the Rhythm Aces, however, I don't remember
them ever being in Orlando.