Success for SDF

[jsmith]

Last September I started a thread titled 'Motowners in Miami' and on this I posted loads of old 1960's club adverts for shows held in the Miami area.
A couple of weeks ago I was contacted by Emily Gibson of the Black Archives Foundation of South Florida. She had been checking the net & had come across the thread on here.
She told me that her organisation was staging an exhibition in Miami to celebrate the entertainment scene in the Overtown area of the city back in the 1950's/60's/70's and they would like to use some of the ads I had posted.
I said I'd help and I had to send her high definition digital copies of about 20 to 30 such ads [[some of which I had posted on here, others I hadn't but were relevant to the proposed theme of the exhibition).
Anyway, they will be using lots of my stuff & were most pleased to have found me via SDF.
The exhibition will be staged in the Ward Rooming House Museum and Gallery and will commence on June 23rd.
The Ward Rooming House Museum and Gallery is located in the Historic Overtown Folklife Village on Northwest 2nd and 3rd Avenues between 8th and 10th street. Designated by the State of Florida as the Overtown Main Street Community, the mission of the Folklife Village is to restore historic sites of significance in the Overtown community, creating a regional tourist attraction showcasing the legacies of Miami’s Overtown and the Harlem Renaissance, as well as the Black cultural heritage of South Florida, the Bahamas and the Caribbean.
............ Pity I live in the UK as I'd love to go along.

[jsmith]

No doubt the main part of the proposed exhibition will be billboards created back in the day for shows promoted by Clyde Killens.
Clyde Killens was "Mr. Entertainment" on the black Miami entertainment scene from the 1950's to the 1970's. His donated collection also includes audio tapes, correspondence, fliers, newspaper articles, memorabilia, and photographs. Years back he donated all of these to the Black Archives org rather than throwing them out with the garbage.
These full size / full colour billboards include ones for shows starring ......
1. The Dells
4. Nappy Brown
5. Fay Ray Shelar
6. Timi Yuro
7. Yvonne Fair
8. Chris Kenner
9. Doris Troy
10. The Five King Pins
11. Joe Henderson
13. 5 Big Acts ?????
15. Freddie Scott
18. Sam & Dave
19. Piano Red
20. The Sensations / The Falcons
21. Miller Sisters
22. Barbara Lewis
23. Chuck Jackson
25. The Laddins
26. Coeds / Chicke Horne / Buttercup
27. Clyde McPhatter
28. Garnet Mimms and the Enchanters
30. E. Lois Foreman
31. Soul Sisters
32. Count Basie
33. B. B. King
34. Ben E. King
37. Coasters
38. Mary Wells
39. Joan Procter
40. Ted Taylor
41. Etta Jones
42. The Fascinations
43. Jerry Butler
44. Roy Hamilton
45. Betty Lavette
46. Lou Johnson
47. Freddie Scott
48. Impressions
49. Patti Labelle
50. Five Royals
51. Chickie Horne
52. Sam & Dave
53. The Zeniths
54. Ruth Brown
55. The Tams
56. Nina Simone
57. J. Fred Muggs
58. Barbara Lynn
59. Olivette Miller
60. Jimmy Ricks
61. Milly Collier
62. Johnny Nash
63. Ada Lee
64. Louisiana Red
65. Cookies
66. Tommy Hunt
67. Little Willie John
68. Gloria Lyn
69. Bell Brothers
70. Garnet Mimms
71. Valadeers
72. Little Esther
73. Dodo Greene
74. Betty Everett
75. The Vibrations
76. Chanteers
77. Sonny Johnson
79. Little Eva
81. Major Lance
82. Coeds
83. Falcons
85. Dakota Staton
86. Jean Dushon
87. Paul Kelly
88. Red Foxx
89. Marv Johnson
90. Dick Gregory
91. Steve Alaimo
92. Rufus Thomas
93. Janette Washington
94. Big Dee Irwin
96. Theola Kilgore
97. Inez Foxx
98. Bo Diddley
99. Sam Cooke
100. Dee Dee Sharp
102. Wildman Steve Revue
103. Solomon Burke
104. Drifters
105. Bill Robinson
106. Red Foxx
107. Aretha Franklin
108. Dinah Washington
109. Big Maybelle
110. Etta James
111. Etta James
112. Brook Benton
113. Hank Ballard
114. Ruby & the Romantics
115. Falcons
116. Duke of Earl [[Gene Chandler)

Guess it will be an impressive exhibition.

[tamla617]

well done!

[ralpht]

This is what I like hearing. Bravo, J.

[paladin]

Congrats, you are honored and humble......bravo ! ooops Ralph already said that....

[juicefree20]

JSmith

Congrats to you on this good news & congrats to SDF, whom makes the world just a little bit smaller & what was once unimaginable, very possible.

As you can see from recent forum posts, good news these days has been somewhat tempered by the sad news. So this thread is like a breath of some much-needed fresh air.

CONGRATS AGAIN!

[imnokid]

I can't find that original thread. Can you post in it so it comes to the front?

[imnokid]

[QUOTE=jsmith;110667]
She told me that her organisation was staging an exhibition in Miami to celebrate the entertainment scene in the Overtown area of the city back in the 1950's/60's/70's and they would like to use some of the ads I had posted.
I said I'd help and I had to send her high definition digital copies of about 20 to 30 such ads [[some of which I had posted on here, others I hadn't but were relevant to the proposed theme of the exhibition).
Anyway, they will be using lots of my stuff & were most pleased to have found me via SDF.

Be careful. That is not really "your stuff". Take ownwership claim and you could get in a mess of legal trouble from the true right's holders. As cool as the stuff you sent Bettye and me is, we couldn't legally use any of it in her book.

[jsmith]

RE: That is not really "your stuff".
Kevin, I know its not MY STUFF ..... its ads copied from newspapers, magazines or photocopied from the original flyers.
..... So who actually OWNS the original flyer or the newspaper / magazine ad ??
I guess it is the artist who drew up the original document [[or their employer if they worked for an agency, magazine or newspaper).
What if the 'original artist' is now dead or the agency / publication has gone out of business ??

The same must hold true if you scan & publish [[in a book or on the net) a 45 label / LP cover and yet 1000's do it & I have never heard of anyone being prosecuted.
It doesn't work like music or book copyright .... or does it ??

[jsmith]

So can any of SDF's more legally minded members answer the question as to just who owns the copyright to an old record or club advert if it was published in more than one newspaper or magazine [[or also printed up as a flyer) ??

[juicefree20]

Honestly, this can be a very, VERY tricky situation. Let's consider the posters for a starter.

Every poster has a photograph & behind that photograph is a photographer who took it. Now was the picture supplied by the handlers of the artist, a p.r agency, the record label, or was the photographer shooting independently? If he was shooting for himself, did he copyright the pictures in question? If the photo came from the label or an agency, was the photographer shooting for them or was he independent & simply allowed them use while still retaining his rights to the photo?

Secondarily to be considered for posters & ads is the graphic layout. Someone had to design those posters & ads & if so, unless the ad became public domain, it would appear as though those layouts would be protected as well. One saving grace is the fact that the designers of those materials & most of the publications who ran them are likely long gone & in more than a few cases, it's possible that no one filed to protect them.

With that said, it's still a gamble. It's entirely possible that you might use them without a problem. Considering that many of those newspapers are likely long gone, there might not be too much of an uproar. As regards the posters, that MIGHT not be too much of a problem. Back then promoters/labels/artists used those posters to advertise their shows & back then not very many of them were thinking that those posters would become valuable collectables some 40 to 50 years later. So, it's somewhat doubtful that folks who likely had to stretch every dollar for what it was worth actually took the time & expense to copyright those posters.

Now an ad that came from a publication or newspaper which still exists might get you a quicker negative response. For example, I'm sure that Billboard has maintained a fairly nice-sized archive of ads, photos & things as such. To publish something that came from a Billboard magazine, whether you purchased it or not, could potentially place you at risk. Perhaps it would be wise to check into their policy about such things, but I can't imagine Billboard allowing anyone other than themselves to profit financially or even get a bit of attention when those kudos can go directly to them.

Think of this pretty much as you would filesharing. Even though you purchased the LP through legal channels doesn't allow you to then sell cds of the music. It allows you to play it yourself & to allow others to borrow it, but if money should change hands, as you can see, that has the potential of opening up a can of worms. Personally, I don't believe that most would bother pursuing you over this matter, but that risk always exists if it's not your own work.

And believe it or not, sometimes you're at risk even if you actually took pictures yourself, as you could be infringing on the rights of a stage designer or a company which supplies lighting if their company name appears in your photo. It can be that tricky.

What I would advise you to do is to look at those posters & see if there are any company names or personal names somewhere on the photo or ad. If so, you might want to google up the company to see whether they're still in existence. Even if they're not, or the creator is deceased, if whatever you're using is not in public domain there's always the possibility of their estate sending you a less than friendly note.

I'll check further but unfortunately, this just isn't a clear-cut situation. But for now, here's a starter. Check the section marked "How are these ads defined as "public domain"?", as it may impact upom your situation as regards the ads...

http://www.popcultmag.com/passingfan...emeranow1.html

Also...

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Co...Image_casebook

[juicefree20]

By the way JSmith, I saw that original thread the other day, but can't find it. I was going to look through it to see if I could find an example to point out to you. What happened to the thread or am I simply overlooking it?

[juicefree20]

Here's another link which addressed copyright as regards photos...

http://www.photosecrets.com/copyright

Read the sections ''Who owns the copyright?" & "What do I not get?" [[very interesting info as regards resale).

Then there's "Fair Use", which is covered in Section 107 of the Copyright Law...

''Section 107 contains a list of the various purposes for which the reproduction of a particular work may be considered fair, such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research. Section 107 also sets out four factors to be considered in determining whether or not a particular use is fair:

1. The purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of commercial nature or is for NONPROFIT EDUCATIONAL purposes

2.The nature of the copyrighted work

3. The amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as

4. The effect of the use upon the potential market for, or value of, the copyrighted work

http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl102.html

You may also want to read through the chapters which may pertain to you at the following link:

http://www.copyright.gov/title17/


http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl102.html

[jsmith]

Many thanks Juicefree.
I would add that I make 'amendments' to many of the pieces I have [[& post) to overcome original errors [[spellings, etc), improve the original [[IMO) and I also amend damaged areas / poorly printed areas [[I used to be a Civil Engineer before retiring & that entailed lots of draughtmanship back in the day so I have the skills) ..
.... so in many cases, my version is different to all previously printed versions of an item.

[jsmith]

The items that I have supplied are being used for non-profit making purposes [[& I never ask for financial recompense when I send them on to anyone), so I'm sure I can sleep soundly at night without the fear that a 'heavy' will come knocking on my door.
BUT .... just about all the reissue record companies make use of old artist photos, radio stn charts, record ads lifted from mags & other such items in their LP / CD booklets. They sell these for commercial gain & have been doing so for 30+ years now .... and I have yet to hear of proceedings being taken against any of them.
ALSO ... there are many soul related books that use such items to illustrate their text and again, none has been subject to legal proceedings that I know of.

[jsmith]

The Black Archive of Miami exhibition opened earlier this week & I was sent some photos taken at the 'opening'.
I 'supplied' the 10 ft tall club ad down the right hand side of the photo plus the two shown middle top. Loads of the others I forwarded along were also use .... all 'blown up' to bigger than life size.
They wanted some info on me + a photo; so I sent a photo of me & the Wiggins brothers. Quite appropriate as Spencer is a minister 'just up the road' in Fort Lauderdale these days.
Attachment 5074

[MadLad]

hey Jsmith did you get my message?

The Black Archive of Miami exhibition opened earlier this week & I was sent some photos taken at the 'opening'.
I 'supplied' the 10 ft tall club ad down the right hand side of the photo plus the two shown middle top. Loads of the others I forwarded along were also use .... all 'blown up' to bigger than life size.
They wanted some info on me + a photo; so I sent a photo of me & the Wiggins brothers. Quite appropriate as Spencer is a minister 'just up the road' in Fort Lauderdale these days.
Attachment 5074

[jsmith]

Colton, got your message. Will get back to you.

[juicefree20]

JSmith

This looks like one great display. Very nice touch of history there!

I'd love to see what more they did because this sampling was quite nice.

Congrats on contibuting to a very rich legacy which far too many have neglected to give props to.

[jsmith]

Here's another photo I was forwarded from when the exhibition opened.
Four more of the club ads I sent along can be seen in this shot [[though because of the lighting, its hard to see their content in detail).
Attachment 5077

[juicefree20]

JSmith,

What stands out to me about the above picture is that I see 4 young men who are being introduced to a very important part of our musical history.

The picture of these 4 young men is as powerful to me as all of those wonderful ads, posters & articles are.

Personally, this is one beautiful picture & it must feel good for you to know that you've contributed something that has the power to inform young minds which are several generations removed from the periods depicted.

Now THAT'S power!

[satipe]

I want to agree with Juice as I felt the same when I saw four youth exposed to their musical heritage. Fantastic!

[destruction]

I want to agree with Juice as I felt the same when I saw four youth exposed to their musical heritage. Fantastic!

In Full Agreement with both.....

Satipe,

Pls hit me with a PM when you get a sec......thx.

[jsmith]

Thanks for the kind words.
It always amazes me how little some of today's youth seem to know about their musical heritage. We have a very close family friend who is a 'teenage party planner' in Florida. All the kids ever want at their parties are songs that have recently featured on 'Glee'. When he plays the original soul cut of the song at the party [[& usually they want the 'Glee version' but that isn't possible lots of the time), they seem a little disappointed [['the singing's not the same' they say). They also never seem to have heard / know anything about the original artists even if its a top Motown or Stax act, Reffa, the O'Jays or whoever.

[jsmith]

Another photo taken at the exhibition opening.
Some of the ads I forwarded along, I didn't have the time to redo at higher definition [[I was only told that they wanted to blow lots up to 3ft by 3ft size just before they were picking which ones they wanted to use in the exhibition).
So some of the ads they put together in a montage and thus ended up with a display that is the size they wanted. This photo shows 4 of the bits I sent along; 2 of them being montages.
If a similar exhibition were to be staged about Detroit soul music, I'm sure SDF members could supply 'stuff' to ensure the thing was both visually impressive & very highly informative. Isn't there an youth-involved organisation based in Detroit that might want to set-up such an exhibition ?

Attachment 5097

[juicefree20]

Satipe,

I felt the same way whenever I read about your phone interviews with our icons & your students.

The beauty of it all is that these artists actually enjoy speaking with the young & when the young are receptive to it, it's truly a beautiful thing.

I was one of those kids who was always interested in our artists but back in the 70s, there was no internet & precious few ways to actually be in touch with these artists. So the best that we could hope for was an appearance on Soul Train, or the latest issue of Blues & Soul or Right On to supply us with information. The info was usually puff-pieces, but it was info just the same.

The internet has proven to be a powerful informational tool & today, a youngster has so many ways to learn, as well as be in touch with these legends, that it's absoolutely amazing.

[juicefree20]

JSmith:

Kind words well-deserved!