Comparisons….Gladys Knight & the Pips… Motown vs Buddah….

[Ngroove]

OK, this might be one of the most difficult comparisons of all…I Heard It Through The Grapevine, The End Of Our Road, Friendship Train,The Nitty Gritty, It Should Have Been Me, I Don’t Want To Do Wrong, Make Me The Woman You Come Home To, Neither One Of Us [[Wants To Be The First To Say Goodbye), Daddy Could Swear, I Declare
Vs.
Midnight Train to Georgia, The Best Thing That Ever Happened To Me, I’ve Got To Use My Imagination, On and On, I Feel A Song [[In My Heart Again), Make Yours A Happy Home, Memories [[The Way We Were)….

[Ngroove]

....OK...this is obviously a double...board moderation, hope it can be taken care of

[soulster]

OK, this might be one of the most difficult comparisons ofall…I Heard It Through The Grapevine, The End Of Our Road, Friendship Train,The Nitty Gritty, It Should Have Been Me, I Don’t Want To Do Wrong, Make Me TheWoman You Come Home To, Neither One Of Us 9Wants To Be The First To SayGoodbye), Daddy Could Swear, I Declare
Vs.
Midnight Train to Georgia, The Best Thing That Ever HappenedTo Me, I’ve Got To Use My Imagination, Onand On, I Feel A Song [[In My Heart Again), Make Yours A Happy Home, Memories [[The Way We Were)….

There is no contest in my mind! I'll take the Buddah years over all else, Motown Columbia, or MCA.

[reese]

I love their Motown recordings more than those recorded for any other label. I find the Buddah albums to be rather spotty after the first two albums, IMAGINATION and CLAUDINE.

[jobeterob]

Prefer the Neither One of Us album and the first two Buddah albums.

Hard to argue with the peak occurring on Buddah.

[Roger Polhill]

I cannot be without the album "Everybody Needs Love" Motown and Gladys at their finest.

[soulster]

Some of their later Motown material was good, but, by now, everyone knows the reason the group left Motown, because Motown treated them as a "second tier" artist, and they had no creative control. Buddah gave them creative control. I know this is a Motown forum, but sometimes those artists just had to leave to realize their potential, as the Motown machine was too stifling in the 70s. The artists grew tired of the control, which is why Four Tops had to leave too. The Tops may have had producers in name, but Lawrence Payton was the one who really produced their ABC/Dunhill albums. At Buddah, Gladys Knight & The Pips got to produce themselves too. The ability to pick your own material must have been exhilarating, and not have someone telling you no. No wonder Stevie Wonder fought so hard for his artistic control and to stay with Motown.

[thisoldheart]

no question ... the pips at Motown!

[roger]

Its the Motown era for me .. the production/musicianship on some of the Buddah era material ballads veered too much towards M.O.R. for my taste [[though Gladys herself sounded fine).

When she was at Motown she was recording ballads like "Take Me In Your Arms And Love Me", "If I Were Your Woman" and "Didn't You Know You Had To Cry Sometime" that still had that element of musical "grit" that I love.

I'd put the Columbia/C.B.S. material above the Buddah era as well .. "Taste Of Bitter Love", "Number One In My Book" .. fabulous stuff!!

Roger

[jack020]

The Motown stuff was good, but Gladys was never better than on the Curtis Mayfield produced Claudine soundtrack and with Van McCoy on the Still Together album!
Both on Buddah.

[BigAl]

I would be unable to choose. I feel the group was quite lucky to have been able to retain Jim Weatherly as songwriter during their transition from Motown to Buddha. Since he was not under exclusive contract to Motown they were able to pull that one off. That really helped to bridge what might have been a stylistic gap. To listen to them, "Midnight Train..." and "You're the Best Thing..." could very well have been Motown releases, and so could "Imagination," although penned by Gerry Goffin and Barry Goldberg — both seasoned Brill Building writers. It seems to me that a real effort was made to keep the group's signature sound through those first singles. That strategy worked beautifully for the them, and I doubt that the casual listener even noticed that anything was different.

[soulster]

Give me anything on the Buddah label any day. It is far superior to their Motown output, IMO. They just could not have done this music at Motown.

[Ngroove]

I would be unable to choose. I feel the group was quite lucky to have been able to retain Jim Weatherly as songwriter during their transition from Motown to Buddha. Since he was not under exclusive contract to Motown they were able to pull that one off. That really helped to bridge what might have been a stylistic gap. To listen to them, "Midnight Train..." and "You're the Best Thing..." could very well have been Motown releases, and so could "Imagination," although penned by Gerry Goffin and Barry Goldberg — both seasoned Brill Building writers. It seems to me that a real effort was made to keep the group's signature sound through those first singles. That strategy worked beautifully for the them, and I doubt that the casual listener even noticed that anything was different.

Same same...Jim Weatherly + Gladys Knight = match made in heaven, the best of both peroids, whether the end of one [[ Neither One Of Us) or the beginning of another [[Midnight Train). Simple, yet lush orchestrations and arrangements, over Gladys' straight-from-the-heart soulful voice, with the Pips' omnipresent harmonies.

[copley]

Motown wins by a country mile. I do like some of the early Buddha material.

[tamla617]

its the motown years for me.that doesnt mean i didnt like anything after they left.i've got to use my imagination,midnight train to georgia [[apart from the endless repeating at the end) and the best bond theme ever...licence to kill.
i prefer her/their grapevine to marvins [[just) and their friendship train to the temps version

[marv2]

This is an extremely hard comparisons. They were like two different groups at Motown, then Buddha. Their Columbia records output was just as superb.

[dickiemint]

Gladys is one of the best female singers of all time and I love everything she has recorded but I own most of the Motown years and best of's from the later periods, would love Gladys &Pips Motown lost and found to get its release, Here are the pieces of my broken heart is one of the best Cellarfull tracks to be discovered so far .

[midnightman]

Motown Pips > Buddah Pips though I do think their version of "The Makings of You" is the greatest song they ever did.

Gladys' voice cuts like glass especially on that song:
Add a little sugar
Honeysuckle lamb
A great big expression of happiness...

Just hear how succulent she says "happiness"... *drooling*

[juicefree20]

Very difficult to choose between the two but on the strength of "Heard It Through The Grapevine" & "Everybody Needs Love", I'll go with Motown.

[soulster]

Their Columbia records output was just as superb.

"The Taste Of Bitter Love", "Landlord", Save The Overtime [[For Me)", "Bourgie Bourgie"...all great songs. However, none of them made much of a dent in the pop chart.

[luke]

Close call but ultimately Buddah where they really opened up.

[R. Mark Desjardins]

Reviewing all the above comments reinforces in my mind that all of Gladys Knight & The Pips material was top notch throughout their long and varied career. I especially dug the loose and funky feel of some of their Columbia singles and especially enjoyed "Love OverBoard." What a sterling tracklist they had!

[juicefree20]

I have to say that I liked their Maxx material as well.

And for the sake of history, here's the Brunswick 45 that started it all...



And while I finally heard the A-side awhole back, I have to keep it real & admit that while searching for the clip to put up, tonight, I finally found the flip side & am hearing it for the first time.



Though we're not used to hearing anyone but The pips singing in the background, at that point Brenda Knight, & Eleanor Guest were members of the early incarnation of The Pips.

[juicefree20]

How about one on Maxx with more Pips than Gladys...

[Ngroove]

Reviewing all the above comments reinforces in my mind that all of Gladys Knight & The Pips material was top notch throughout their long and varied career. I especially dug the loose and funky feel of some of their Columbia singles and especially enjoyed "Love OverBoard." What a sterling tracklist they had!

Yeah...between listening to their songs in the pre-Motown early sixties "Every Beat Of My Heart", "Letter Full of Tears", to even as later amazing works into the eighties as "Save the Overtime [[For Me)" and "Love Overboard", which latter could and had managed to have a beat to stand on par with the "New Jack Swing" that was going on around the period, while many, many other acts by then either fell apart, faded into Oldies Circuit, or barely hung on the charts, heck, even many eighties acts were slipping or gone by then, while the Pips even successfully peaked at #13 pop in 1987, they remained largely solidly versatile, but then again, true talent is a one-in-a-million timeless gift.

[luke]

Have their been many honors given to Gladys and Pips-like lifetime achievement awards, BET honors etc???

[marv2]

"The Taste Of Bitter Love", "Landlord", Save The Overtime [[For Me)", "Bourgie Bourgie"...all great songs. However, none of them made much of a dent in the pop chart.

Didn't matter. Everyone of those songs you mentioned bring back vivid,very good memories for me personally. Let's include "You're Number One [[In My Book...)!

[BabyLuv64]

Have their been many honors given to Gladys and Pips-like lifetime achievement awards, BET honors etc???

Yes but Gladys is usually honored...I don't recall any tributes where the Pips have been recognized & awarded alongside her.

Gladys was recently honored at last year's Soul Train Awards...she had been honored before in the 80's by them. She's also had tributes at the BET Awards & Essence Awards. Some clips may be found on Youtube.

[reese]

Yes but Gladys is usually honored...I don't recall any tributes where the Pips have been recognized & awarded alongside her.

Gladys was recently honored at last year's Soul Train Awards...she had been honored before in the 80's by them. She's also had tributes at the BET Awards & Essence Awards. Some clips may be found on Youtube.

The group received the Heritage Award at the 1988 Soul Train Awards, and they were also inducted in the Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame.

[marv2]

The group received the Heritage Award at the 1988 Soul Train Awards, and they were also inducted in the Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame.

Exactly! There was no acrimony in that group. Everyone that loved Gladys, loved the group and vice-versa.

[ivyfield]

Easy-peasy for me - MOTOWN. Nothing could surpass 'Neither One Of Us/If I Were Your Woman/Make Me The Woman You Go Home To/The Look Of Love... The Buddah years certainly produced some classics. I also love her first solo LP - especially I'm Coming Home Again' for which I made a video a couple of years ago...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDjveuMEUYk

[marv2]

You know what? Songs like "If I Were Your Woman", "Friendship Train" ,"I Heard It Through the Grapevine", "Didn't You Know You Had to Cry Sometime" make this a very tough call because Gladys & the Pips recorded some true classics at Motown and at every label they have been associated with! Tough call.........

[supremester]

Motown - hands down. Of course I like the first 3 Buddah hits and Try to Remember, but they rarely crop up on my playlists these days. My faves: Nitty Gritty, I Don't Want To Do Wrong, If I Were Your Woman, You Need Love Like I Do [[Don't You) Grapevine, Help Me Make It Through The Night et all.

[soulster]

Didn't matter. Everyone of those songs you mentioned bring back vivid,very good memories for me personally. Let's include "You're Number One [[In My Book...)!

Actually, in a business sense, it did matter. By the late 70s, GK & The Pips were used to being on top of the pop charts as well as the soul charts, and it wasn't happening. Their record company, Buddah, all but collapsed in 1977. When that was up, they moved to Columbia, where The Emotions, Earth, Wind & Fire, Johnnie Taylor, Tyrone Davis, and many other soul artists were thriving. Disco was the big problem. GK & Pips could have gone that route, but that would have compromised their musical integrity, methinks. That's why they fared better on the soul chart in the 80s, when it was OK to do soul music again. However, the disco backlash was on, and it was very hard for R&B artists to get their music played on pop radio. Only a few succeeded. The bigger problem was...and i've said it before...Larkin Arnold, president of the Black Music division at CBS in the early 80s, didn't believe in marketing R&B to pop radio. This also disappointed pop artists like Denise Williams.

Back to the main topic: I was not impressed with "Love Overboard". It had that programmed drum machine hip-hop sound that I didn't care for in the late 80s, at least by certain artists. For the newer artists, it seemed to fit fine.

I have their "Gold" 2-CD set. I should review the later MCA material, as that's the period I am not very familiar with. By 1988, I was listening to lots of rap, teen pop, and rock.

As far as the Motown material is concerned, I like a few the the hits like "If I Were Your Woman", Friendship Train", I heard It Through the Grapevine", and "Daddy Could Swear, I Declare", but i'm just not *that* enamored of that Motown sound as this forum is, despite me having grown up with Motown as one of the primary music styles in my early life. For me, it's about the songs first, the artists second, and the record label third.

[tamla617]

its got to be the song soulster nothing but the song.

i cant stand a least one track from every major motown act.so the song/track is everything
and everything else is just a coincidence [[artist and label)

[Kamasu_Jr]

GLADYS Knight & The Pips made some good records for Columbia, Buddah and MCA, but I will always consider them to be a Motown group.

[soulster]

To me, they were a group that got trapped in the Motown machine. That's not to say that is a bad thing, but, like the Isley Brothers, they had to spread their wings somewhere else.

[robb_k]

I like their Motown work much better. I also like their Brunswick, VJ, Fury and Maxx cuts more than those for Buddha. Not so much the Motown cuts listed, however, but more the following: "Everybody Needs Love", "Take Me In Your Arms and Love Me", "Just Walk in My Shoes".

[Kamasu_Jr]

To me, they were a group that got trapped in the Motown machine. That's not to say that is a bad thing, but, like the Isley Brothers, they had to spread their wings somewhere else.

I can agree the Isleys were not always well served by the Motown machine, but Gladys and the Pips became stars there and triumphed in spite of everything. Stax was interested before they went to Detroit, but that probably would have been a disaster.