Syreeta Wright: would she have been good for the Supremes?

[Ngroove]

Note: This is NOT a Supremes bashing thread, nor should be treated as so; as I personally myself, find atleast their music of highest infectious, elegant quality, most deserving of the pop / R&B confections they became.

OK, according to Mary Wilson's "Dreamgirls", the night after the "Someday We'll Be Together / Farewell" tour had their final curtain, Berry Gordy called her up, and told her out of the blue, despite Jean Terrell was already chosen by the girls, and probably "Up The Ladder, Through The Roof" was already recorded, that Syreeta Wright will be Diana Ross' replacement.

Sadly, that call did not go well, and essentially, Berry lost interest in the group when Mary refused, but "what if?"

[Ngroove]

Come on, such a decision on his part has got to be just a strategic move, as the pairing up of the then-still unknown Tammi Montgomery, with an established superstar, Marvin Gaye. Perhaps, he seen potential in the then-Rita Wright, as she was the voice of " I Can't Give Back the Love I Feel For You" as well as the background of Martha Reeves & the Vandellas' " I Can't Dance To That Music You're Playing".

Maybe, he felt that such a move, could extend the Supremes' career, while benefitting Syreeta's as well. Maybe she could've had more major hits, as well as pop hits, under her name. Instead, perhaps her albums [[Syreeta, Stevie Wonder Presents.., One To One, Syreeta) may have became cult favorites at the highest, but her only true hit was a duet, with Billy Preston, "With You, I'm Born Again". In my book, she's definitely underratedly unsung.

But, at the same time, while she's great at her own songs, her voice surely is not a Diana Ross, Jean Terrell, or Scherrie Payne either. But stiil, "what if?"

[ralpht]

Good question. I always thought Syreeta would have been the perfect replacement for Diana. She sounded very much like Diana and, in my opinion, this is what held her back at Motown.

[captainjames]

I agree with Ralpht,
Syreeta would have been perfect and I have always felt a good fit for the group. If Berry Gordy was going to back them then I would have jumped to it. Jean could have been used as a solo artist and would have made it.

[BayouMotownMan]

We have talked about this topic many many times.

While I agree Syreeta had the "sound" I don't think she had the glamour look needed for the Supremes. As a singer, she was far superior to Diana and I think even to Jean.

Ralph was around, so he probably knows what most people told me at Motown; After Diana Ross left, Gordy had less and less interest in the Supremes. In fact, after Lady Sings started filming, he had little interest in practically any of the music artists.

I'll stick with my opinion that it mattered not who replaced Diana Ross. They were a ship destined to sink.

[jobeterob]

Jean was pretty darn good for a while considering who she had to replace. And I think Syreeta would have been good as well.

But after about 1972, when the management wasn't working, the members started changing nearly monthly, the hits stopped, times and musical tastes changed and moved away from the glamourous girl group look ~ Rick's probably right; they were a ship destined to sink.

It is an interesting question whether Syreeta could have replaced Jean and if they'd kept the sound a more "safe" Supreme type sound ~ whether then, things would have been different, with a different manager and better guidance.

The Temptations managed over the years to maintain the brand so the Supremes brand should have been maintainable in much the same manner.

But, true, we've done this discussion a few times already. Would be interesting to find the threads and see what, if any conclusion, we reached or it it became another fight.

[BayouMotownMan]

Actually, the Temptations run of hits dried up not too long after the Supremes. The Supremes had unqualified hits up until 1971 or early 1972 [[Floy Joy). The Temptations last major hits was Masterpiece in early 1973. After that their sales began slipping. They have enjoyed moderate success off and on over the years but never reclaimed their 60s fame. They did outlast the Supremes for sure, and that could be because they utilized several lead singers in their tenure.

[ralpht]

What I remember, that makes me think the way I do, was listening to much of what was being recorded on Syreeta and thinking she would be hurt by sounding too much like Diana.

Bayou,
I'm not sure about the glamor image. Syreeta was a real looker that could have pulled it off.

[bradsupremes]

I've thought about this and while Syreeta was an great singer and surely would have slipped into Diana's shoes easily and been a great fit, I don't think continuing with the "Diana" sound would have been the best choice for the group. The group needed to re-invent themselves; they needed something fresh. The selection of Jean was the perfect choice. She had a voice that was soulful, yet commercial. She was different from Diana, but had similar qualities that didn't alienate fans.

If Syreeta was brought in, I don't think she would have added anything different. Producers and writers would have just gone along with what they were doing with Diana. Plus I'm not completely sure that Syreeta would want to join a group. If you had a couple of singles out already in your own name, would you want to join something where your name wouldn't appear on a marquee or on a single? Most singers dream of being a solo artist, but some start out in a group and wait to get their shot on their own [[like Diana). Others start out on their own [[Syreeta) and I can't really seen them wanting to step back into something where their name isn't out there. The same can be said about Tammi Terrell joining the Supremes if she wasn't ill. Would Tammi want to join a group where her name wouldn't be out there when she has already had hits with her own name? People may harp on Mary for telling off Berry regarding Syreeta joining the group, but look at this way: If you're the last original member of your group left, don't you think you should have a say in the direction your group is going and who you are going to sing with? Why would you want to be in a group with someone you didn't get along with to being with? [[According to Cindy, Mary and her didn't get along that well with Syreeta in those early days.) Mary should have had final approval over who was joining the group. Besides it's not like Berry would have really cared about the group if Syreeta had joined. His sights were on Diana and every single thing she did in her career. The Supremes without Diana no longer mattered to him.

[ralpht]

Interesting points, Brad.

[RossHolloway]

Well I dont think ti was so much the Supreme's not mattering to him specifically, but rather Berry wanted to get into movies, plain and simple. I believe a quote of his was something along the lines of - we had done all there was to do in the music field. I think Berry just needed new challenges, and movies provided that for him.

[motony]

I don't ever remember Mr. Gordy having said that he wanted Syreeta in the Supremes.He told Mary Wilson over the phone that early morning after the final show that he did not like Jean & didn't want her in.Did she make an offhanded remark to him that pissed him off [[or pissed Diana off) OR did he just say that so he could wash his hands of the group, as he KNEW his hands would be full with Diana?I guess we'll never know.By the time Diana left the Supremes, Tammi Terrell was a rising star & I could not see her joining the group.

[thisoldheart]

i always thought tammi terrell would have been an obvious choice if she had lived, but she was so popular with marvin gaye, no doubt she would have gone straight solo. syreeta is obvious, too. i am not reminded in the least of her voice sounding too similar to diana ross. and, who is saying syreeta wasn't attractive enough to fit into the supreme glam factory?! she sure would have been interesting, to say the least. but, i fear that had gordy not chosen jean terrell we might never have heard her. now, that would have been tragic!

[BayouMotownMan]

Oh I don't dispute that Syreeta was an attractive woman Ralph, but in most of the photos I've seen of her she was true to her heritage and wore the clothing that expressed that. Wigs and beaded gowns just wasn't her thing. She did it sometimes but when she sang with Stevie she was down to earth.

In terms of sounding like Diana Ross, I just don't hear it. I would put Syreeta far above Diana Ross in terms of range, vocal quality and tone. She may have sang in higher keys like Diana, but Syreeta Wright was a singer's singer; she likely could have done opera. I would say Jean and Syreeta sounded more alike than Diana and Syreeta did.

I guess my ears are wierd. When I first heard I Can't Dance To That Music, it didn't occur to me that the background singer sounded like Diana Ross. I just wondered which Vandella was wailing like that? Roz Ashford is another underrated singer, but she never sounded like that before.

As far as Tammi Terrell, God bless her, I just don't ever see her as a member of the Supremes. She was already well known for her solo and duet work with Marvin. She too just didn't fit the image.

I agree with the earlier assessment that Jean was the best choice. She was rather tall, didn't have a good figure but had a pretty face, a mega-watt smile like Diana [[with prettier teeth) and what a voice. Jean, Mary and Cindy remain my favorite grouping of Supremes

[ralpht]

Bayou,
Gotta agree with you on the superiority of Syreetas vocal range. She had the chops.

[BayouMotownMan]

I'll never understand why Syreeta didn't have more hit records. So few know about her and she was an incredible vocalist

[ralpht]

Yeah, she is one of those music biz "what if" stories. A real shame.

[BayouMotownMan]

I really thought after Ross left the company, and then Teena Marie, that Motown would have gotten behind Syreeta. But they didn't. The Set My Love In Motion lp should have put her over. The Jermaine Jackson followup just wasn't commercial at all, even though she sounded great on it.

[ralpht]

I'm not sure who was calling the shots on her in the Creative Division. Seems they messed up.

[Ngroove]

Thank you all, in making this a most productive discussion thus far.

Yeah, I guess, what happened, happened, as the Supremes would still rack up a handful more of hits [[although one of my personal favorites from them, post-Ross, ain’t one of them, “Touch”).

And Syreeta, man, even when backed up by Stevie Wonder, she’s just left relatively unnoticed. And yes, absolutely loved her voice, notably on such as “Spinnin’ and Spinnin’”, “I’m Goin’ Left”, “Your Kiss Is Sweet”, “He’s Gone”, “ Quick Slick”-the latter, my opinion, should had easily given Carl Carlton’s “She’s A Bad Mamma Jamma” a run for its money around its time…*sigh* shame…

But yes, maybe under the right guidance, maybe they could had been great, but then again, perhaps Mary and Cindy sensed they wouldn’t mesh so well, when they seem to be just starting to develop a new kinship, with Jean.

[loveblind]

Jean had a great voice, very commercial, as did Syreeta, but Syreeta had more drive . She was also a songwriter collaborating on hits like "If You Really Love Me', "It's a shame" and "Signed Sealed & Delivered". I do believe she would have dedicated her self more to the Supremes unit as she was a Motown trooper. Very dedicated to the company and Mr. Gordy. Jean on the other hand did not have that same devotion or "show business Drive" one needs to stay in this business. Motown women like Mary Wilson, Diana Ross and Martha Reeves had drive. Syreeta stayed busy until her untimely death in 2004.

[ivyfield]

Sadly, that call did not go well, and essentially, Berry lost interest in the group when Mary refused, but "what if?"

I have a very nice experience that this has reminded me of. But first, to set the record straight, Mary and Cindy didn't pick Jean, it was Berry. Anyway, I digress. Mid 80's, the UK 'Legends of Motorcity' tour. This happened very quickly but it's something I'll never forget. Backstage after the very first show of the tour which kicked off at the Fairfield Halls, Croydon. All the acts were there - Marv Johnson, The Elgins, Carolyn Crawford, Kim Weston, The Supremes' Jean, Scherrie & Lynda and Syreeta. Everyone was in high spirits as the first show had gone well. People were sipping wine and chatting. I was standing with J/S/L and Syreeta came over and said 'You all sounded so great' I just LOVE 'Up The Ladder to the Roof' it's a great song' then she stood there and sang the phrase 'Up the ladder to the roof, where we can see heaven much better...' and she sounded fabulous. I stood there thinking 'WOW! - that's what the Supremes could have sounded like' and during the tour I managed to chat a little with Syreeta as I attended several of the shows. She was a really nice, bubbly, happy lady who [[I think) didn't know just how great a talent she was. She's another gifted person who Motown let slip through the net. She should have been much bigger - especially when you realise what a great writer she was too. I miss her. Just glad I had the chance to meet her. I would like to add tho - I don't think Syreeta would have stayed with the Supremes had she replaced Ross because her talents extended to writing and though she could have penned some great stuff for the group, I think she was better off staying solo. Just sayin'...

[bradsupremes]

I don't know how true this is, but I remember hearing a rumor that Syreeta did record "Up The Ladder To The Roof," however it is in the vaults. I forgot where I heard it, but it would certainly be something amazing to hear if it were true.

I always thought that there were several songs on Stevie Wonder Presents Syreeta that sounded like they were originally written and intended for Jean & the Supremes to record. Stevie had wrote and recorded "Bad Weather," "Soft Days," and "I'll Wait A Lifetime" for the girls. The later two remaining unreleased. I wouldn't be surprised if Stevie had more songs written for the group that were intended for an album had "Bad Weather" been a hit. In fact, I thought the Supremes recording an album with Stevie Wonder was the plan. Take a listen to "Come And Get This Stuff," "Universal Sound Of The World," and "I'm Goin' Left." You can easily hear Jean, Mary and Lynda singing these songs especially "Come And Get This Stuff." That one has a real group sound to it.

[ivyfield]

I wonder [[no pun intended) what happened to break up Stevie & Syreeta. They seemed so matched. Guess we'll never know. I'll ask George Soloman if he's come across a master of Syreeta recording 'Up the Ladder'. Very interesting - never heard about that before.

[1382hitsville]

Syreeta did record a [[demo?) version of Love Child.

[Constantin]

Her 1980 and 1981 albums were excellent.

[franjoy56]

the issue with syretta in the group was that you had another familiar name that would have eventually been placed in front of the group Syretta would not have settled for being in the Supremes without star billing she was a force not just merely a singer to be inserted in a group setting and Mary and Cindy saw this long before Berry pitched the idea to her, furthermore Jean Mary and Cindy had already recorded several tracks from the Right On album. . Mary wanted a group sound not something that took place with Diana Ross and The Supremes later years.

[jillfoster]

I'll never understand why Syreeta didn't have more hit records. So few know about her and she was an incredible vocalist

Because her tone quality is annoying. She was nasal and whiny, and sounded for all the world like a little girl on the playground teasing someone, "Nah nah nah na nah nah...." Jean blew all other Supremes out of the water, vocally... with Mary coming in second, because of her uniqueness and smooth quality. I'm just dissapointed as hell since I learned that Leola Jiles was set to replace Jean, but it fell through. Leola would have been SO much better than Scherrie Payne for the group. Instead, we got the Ethel Merman of soul music.

[marv2]

Because her tone quality is annoying. She was nasal and whiny, and sounded for all the world like a little girl on the playground teasing someone, "Nah nah nah na nah nah...." Jean blew all other Supremes out of the water, vocally... with Mary coming in second, because of her uniqueness and smooth quality. I'm just dissapointed as hell since I learned that Leola Jiles was set to replace Jean, but it fell through. Leola would have been SO much better than Scherrie Payne for the group. Instead, we got the Ethel Merman of soul music.

You're good! I mean you're real good! hehehehhehehe..........

[jobeterob]

I can understand the point JillFoster makes about Syreeta's voice; it could be somewhat nasally and a little shrill/whiny at time without being very distinctive; and there are a million undistinctive high and low voices out there ~ and they generally are unsuccessful.

But she is none of that on a song like With You I'm Born Again.

I think the Supremes did well with Jean ~ as well as you could expect; but as 1972 came and went, they did not suecessfully reinvent themselves. I still think what really did them in was the dead time between 1972 and 1975 ~ and then they were way too late in the game to be a force again.

[marv2]

Random thought:

Syreeta Wright had been with Motown a little over 10 years by the time she got a "hit" along with Billy Prestion with "With You I'm Born Again" in 1979.

Jean Terrell scored a "hit" for Motown with her very first release along with Mary Wilson and Cindy Birdsong, The Supremes with "Up the Ladder to the Roof" in 1970.

[marybrewster]

I can't imagine anyone but Jean Terrell replacing Diana Ross in the Supremes. For a group that constantly "evolved"; choosing someone similar to Diana would have been a mistake. At least I think so.

A couple of questions:

In late 1969, when Mary and Cindy were still touring with Diana, it's said that they also were playing "double duty"; working with Jean and recording for their "debut". Was Diana doing the same thing? Working out all of the details of her going solo?

Was Berry's "I don't want Jean in the group, I was Syreeta" just a ploy to buy Diana more time? It seems like with the couple of months of recording and rehearsing Jean, Mary and Cindy would have to start from scratch, losing precious time and momentum.

Ultimately though, didn't Jean do to the group what Mary and Cindy were afraid of; use the Supremes as a launching pad for a solo career? Granted, Jean's solo didn't come out until 5 or so years after she left the group, but don't you think it was anticipated that she would stay longer? Syreeta wasn't wanted, if she was only going to stay with the Supremes for a short time; the exact thing Jean ended up doing.

[bradsupremes]

Mary Brewster,

Yes, Diana was beginning to record and prepare for her solo career in late 1969. I believe she was working with Bones Howe during this time with plans of doing an album on her, but Berry decided it was best to keep her with the classic Motown sound that she had be accustomed to so she began work with Ashford & Simpson. I know of one track that was originally intended for the Supremes as a possible follow-up single for "Someday We'll Be Together," but was later reassigned to Diana Ross and that was intended for her first solo single, yet was pulled for "Reach Out And Touch [[Somebody's Hand)" instead. The track I'm speaking about is "These Things Will Keep Me Loving You."

I think Jean was willing to stay with the group if they switched labels and changed their name. I think Jean was more unhappy with Motown and how things were being run and not the whole aspect of being apart of a group. I think if both Jean and Lynda convinced Mary to let go of the Supremes' name and sign with ABC Dunhill, I'm pretty sure she would have stayed with group as they started to explore something completely different as a group. However there was tension and friction within the group by this time. Things were just not working by 1973 and I tend to believe it was the low point of the Supremes career. They seemed to bounce back and transform into a different group when Scherrie and Cindy and later Susaye joined. As for the Jean-Mary-Lynda grouping, I don't think they were recording as much and if they were most of it still sits in the vaults. The material that was being released wasn't that great. The Jimmy Webb album would have been an incredible album, but it was just downright bad. I'm disappointed Jimmy Webb didn't bring better songs to the table. He had dozens of amazing songs that they could have recorded, but instead he gave them these crappy leftovers. The Stevie Wonder album that was planned could have done "wonders" for the group [[no pun intended), but Motown was not pushing "Bad Weather" and that did not help to get the project green-lighted. It's a shame because several songs on Stevie Wonder Presents Syreeta were most likely written for the Supremes and they are top notch.

[blueskies]

Mary Brewster,

Yes, Diana was beginning to record and prepare for her solo career in late 1969. I believe she was working with Bones Howe during this time with plans of doing an album on her, but Berry decided it was best to keep her with the classic Motown sound that she had be accustomed to so she began work with Ashford & Simpson. I know of one track that was originally intended for the Supremes as a possible follow-up single for "Someday We'll Be Together," but was later reassigned to Diana Ross and that was intended for her first solo single, yet was pulled for "Reach Out And Touch [[Somebody's Hand)" instead. The track I'm speaking about is "These Things Will Keep Me Loving You."

I think Jean was willing to stay with the group if they switched labels and changed their name. I think Jean was more unhappy with Motown and how things were being run and not the whole aspect of being apart of a group. I think if both Jean and Lynda convinced Mary to let go of the Supremes' name and sign with ABC Dunhill, I'm pretty sure she would have stayed with group as they started to explore something completely different as a group. However there was tension and friction within the group by this time. Things were just not working by 1973 and I tend to believe it was the low point of the Supremes career. They seemed to bounce back and transform into a different group when Scherrie and Cindy and later Susaye joined. As for the Jean-Mary-Lynda grouping, I don't think they were recording as much and if they were most of it still sits in the vaults. The material that was being released wasn't that great. The Jimmy Webb album would have been an incredible album, but it was just downright bad. I'm disappointed Jimmy Webb didn't bring better songs to the table. He had dozens of amazing songs that they could have recorded, but instead he gave them these crappy leftovers. The Stevie Wonder album that was planned could have done "wonders" for the group [[no pun intended), but Motown was not pushing "Bad Weather" and that did not help to get the project green-lighted. It's a shame because several songs on Stevie Wonder Presents Syreeta were most likely written for the Supremes and they are top notch.

That's interesting that Jean might have stayed with the group if they changed the name of the group and changed labels. Another one of those 'what if's'.....what would the name have been, what direction would they have gone in, would they continue to sing the Supremes hits if they had another name.....the list goes on. Interesting thought.

[144man]

Leola would have been SO much better than Scherrie Payne for the group. Instead, we got the Ethel Merman of soul music.

I don't get the reference. Please explain.

[robbert]

Not being an Ameican, I don't know Ethel Merman that well. Why would jillfoster compare Scherrie Payne with her?

[robbert]

I have spent a few days with Syreeta in Amsterdam in 1974 [[after the release of her Stevie Wonder Presents... album and her UK and European success with Your Kiss Is Sweet and Spinning and Spinning). She was in The Netherlands to promote the album and her current 45. By the way, I'm Going Left was a rouser in the Dutch discotheques.
I had to accompany her to a few journalists who wanted to talk to her and to a photo shoot in the studio of photographer Claude Van Heije. I picked her up from her Amsterdam Pulitzer hotel with a limo [[!). Yes, EMI and Tamla-Motown did the best they could, because we believed in her as an upcoming and promising artist.
Unfortunately she appeared not to be in a very good mood. During the drive to Claude's studio she began muttering that a photo shoot and a press conference on one day was too much of a strain for her. After that, in the studio she litterally spent hours to do her wardrobe and make up. During the shoot she still kept up her grumpy attitude. At a certain point I got a bit p*ssed off and told her diplomatically she better quit the diva behaviour. Somehow, that worked. She was like wax in our hands the next two days.
This was, of course, just a split second in her life and career. And in my life & career, for that matter, hahaha. But it told me something about her character as an artist.

[rod_rick]

I don't think it mattered to Jean if she was solo or with a group. In an artcle from Right On magazine and Jet magazine dated May 20, 1976, Jean was rumored to be starting a group with Florence Ballard and Cindy Birdsong. She ultimately ended up in the Former Ladies Of Supremes in the 80's and 90's, so I don't think Jean was really looking for a solo career or to use the Supremes as launching pad to a solo career. Just my opinion.

[bradsupremes]

In an artcle from Right On magazine and Jet magazine dated May 20, 1976, Jean was rumored to be starting a group with Florence Ballard and Cindy Birdsong.

Well that wouldn't have worked since Florence was dead.

[P-Shark: The Revenge]

Syreeta had a beautiful voice. Especially on Gary Bartz's "Music Is My Sanctuary"

[rod_rick]

Well that wouldn't have worked since Florence was dead.

Brad, I was just giving the date of the magazine in case anyone wanted to look it up. Most know that Florence passed on in February of 1976. But keep in mind, alot of those magazine have future dates cor the current information. And I also stated that it was rumor. I think it may have been an idea or a disscussion before Florence passed on. I just put that information out because I don't think Jean was using the Supremes to launch a solo career.

[milven]

.. Leola would have been SO much better than Scherrie Payne for the group. Instead, we got the Ethel Merman of soul music.

I don't get the reference. Please explain.

Ethel Merman was probably the First Lady of Broadway Musical Theatre at a time when the theaters were unmiked and she had to sing strongly to be heard by the audience in the last row of the balcony of the accoustic theater. So she sang loudly and over the top. When she was on TV and in movies, she did not adjust her performance and continued to belt out her songs to the “last row in the balcony” I guess Jill was saying the Sherrie belts out her songs too.
Here is Ethel at about age 70 in one of her final performances. She still gets a standing ovation from the audience.

[marv2]

Brad, I was just giving the date of the magazine in case anyone wanted to look it up. Most know that Florence passed on in February of 1976. But keep in mind, alot of those magazine have future dates cor the current information. And I also stated that it was rumor. I think it may have been an idea or a disscussion before Florence passed on. I just put that information out because I don't think Jean was using the Supremes to launch a solo career.

Rod_rick, the story was carried in the press several times throughout 1975 once Florence resurfaced nationally with the story of her current plight. Right On magazine also made mention of a possible grouping of Jean, Florence Ballard & Cindy Birdsong. What Jet was simply doing was summarizing the most current events in Florence's life up until her death. So you didn't say or post anything wrong. We've had a subscription to Jet Magazine since the early 1960's!

[jillfoster]

I don't get the reference. Please explain.

Quite simple. Both women sing all their songs as loud as they possibly can, any vocal from them comes across as a vocal exercise, and not an emotional expression. There is only unadulterated volume, devoid of sensitivity, feeling, and nuance. The sad part is, Scherrie Payne is CAPABLE of much better, as you can hear on "Horse and Rider", which is total brilliance. But it was only that way because Eddie MADE her sing it like that, and back the hell off.

[franjoy56]

bradsupremes gave the best example of what went wrong with the 1973-Supremes, the failure of "Bad Weather" caused by the neglected promotion of Motown caused Jean to turn on Motown, hell she was doing all the lead tracks and was probably tired of breaking her neck for pittance. Had "Bad Weather" became a hit, and the Stevie Wonder projected album followed with better results than the Jimmy Webb project, I beleive Jean would have continued with the Supremes at Motown. I heard "Bad Weather" on Wnew radio an easy listening station and then couldn't find the record in the stores, I finally got a copy in a second hand variety store in brooklyn, even the fabulous performane on Soul Train in the spring of 73 couldn't save its #87 chart showing. Motown shamelessly threw that one away. No wonder Jean bolted.

[144man]

Quite simple. Both women sing all their songs as loud as they possibly can, any vocal from them comes across as a vocal exercise, and not an emotional expression. There is only unadulterated volume, devoid of sensitivity, feeling, and nuance. The sad part is, Scherrie Payne is CAPABLE of much better, as you can hear on "Horse and Rider", which is total brilliance. But it was only that way because Eddie MADE her sing it like that, and back the hell off.

I've never felt that Scherrie Payne sang rather than shouted. It could be that you hear an added depth to "Horse and Rider" because Scherrie self-penned it.

With Jean's leads, I think she is technically brilliant and I love the records, but sometimes I think she's just doing a job rather than actually feeling the lyrics.

It's strange we should have such differing opinions, but the forum would be really boring if everybody thought the same.

[BigAl]

I think it really didn't matter too much to Gordy whether Jean or Syreeta replaced Diane. He was finished with The Supremes no matter who was in the lead slot. I'm thinking his suggestion of a last-minute switcheroo was motivated by several factors. Perhaps he wanted to see if Mary and Cindy would just go along with the dictum, although he almost certainly knew they would not, after all the publicity and studio time. When they refused as he probably gambled they would, he was then able to use this as an excuse to "wash my hands of The Supremes." If they had acquiesced he would no doubt have found some other reason to be dismissive of them. Their intractability just made it easier for him because they "defied" him on the issue.

Musically, I'm sure the group would have fared nicely with Syreeta, even though Jean's powerhouse style took the group in what was probably a much-needed different direction. Had Sytreeta gotten the nod, the material would likely have been less bombastic but I think they would still have charted for a while just as they did with Jean.

[jobeterob]

Motown purchased full page ads for Bad Weather in all the trade magazines; I think those ads were running about $7000 a crack in 1970.

Another version of Bad Weather is that after it's release, it just didn't catch fire; the song is hookless and just meanders. And Motown very well saw that by 1973, the group was "out" as out could be; they needed to ditch Pedro, all the fancy dresses and get back in touch with the grass roots and the kids; and they weren't anywhere near close to it.

Perhaps if Syreeta had come in at that time, they dumped Pedro, took on new management, stabilized the members of the group, dropped the glitz and glamour and became a whole look more like the Pointer Sisters and the Emotions ~ they might have had a better chance.

[ivyfield]

Syreeta did record a [[demo?) version of Love Child.

Yeah - that's readily available on the internet - it's good too!

[marv2]

Motown purchased full page ads for Bad Weather in all the trade magazines; I think those ads were running about $7000 a crack in 1970.

Another version of Bad Weather is that after it's release, it just didn't catch fire; the song is hookless and just meanders. And Motown very well saw that by 1973, the group was "out" as out could be; they needed to ditch Pedro, all the fancy dresses and get back in touch with the grass roots and the kids; and they weren't anywhere near close to it.

Perhaps if Syreeta had come in at that time, they dumped Pedro, took on new management, stabilized the members of the group, dropped the glitz and glamour and became a whole look more like the Pointer Sisters and the Emotions ~ they might have had a better chance.

They didn't need to do any of that! The Supremes were the trendsetters for female groups for the most part. Like Fran, I had an awfully hard time finding a copy of "Bad Weather" in the stores. I eventually found a copy at a piano store that carried sheet music and some records in Toledo. I did not find it until 1975!!!!

So there was something going on there that had nothing to do with the Supremes vocals, performing abilities, their image or with their manager. You could not find their records in the stores and radio stations were no longer receiving copies for airplay.