Racist murder of 17 year old Trayvon Martin in Florida

**soulster** · 07-06-2013, 09:45 PM

Originally Posted by marv2

Well thank God the judge threw out their bid for an acquittal and now the Jury must decide......

That judge has a rep for siding with the prosecution and is no-nonsense. There was no way she was going to dismiss this trial. But, Zimmerman's lawyers had to try. Like I said, it's their job to try to get him off. Now, it's up to the jury. How many are glad they are all women?

**marv2** · 07-06-2013, 11:12 PM

I like to play a little game I call "My favorite memory of George Zimmerman Lying"

My favorite memory of George Zimmerman lying is when he was asked to surrender his passport and was asked if he had just one. Several days later they found out that he had a second passport that he tried to hide from surrender.

What's your favorite memory?

thomas96 · 07-07-2013, 12:19 PM

Originally Posted by soulster

We can certainly make an educated guess according to the evidence submitted. The prosecution has presented a solid case, and the defense has not made much headway in creating reasonable doubt.

I haven't watched the trial, but if my understanding is correct, doesn't the prosecution have to prove beyond any reasonable doubt that Zimmerman is guilty of 2nd degree murder. The defense doesn't have to do anything. They don't have to create reasonable doubt. It's "innocent until proven [[beyond any reasonable doubt) guilty," not "guilty until proven innocent." Yes, you can certainly make an educated guess, but you still don't know for sure. And Marv is up there saying "I can definitely say that there was no intense struggle or fight before he killed that boy at point blank range!" Please.... You WEREN'T THERE. You have no fucking clue that there was no struggle. Yes it's clear George Zimmerman killed Trayvon Martin. He has admitted it, and that is widely known. He claims self-defense, and the prosecution is trying to prove beyond any reasonable doubt that it wasn't self-defense. It's up for the jury to decide, not for you people to guess, whether it's "educated" or not.

**marv2** · 07-07-2013, 01:16 PM

[QUOTE=thomas96;175807]I haven't watched the trial, but if my understanding is correct, doesn't the prosecution have to prove beyond any reasonable doubt that Zimmerman is guilty of 2nd degree murder. The defense doesn't have to do anything. They don't have to create reasonable doubt. It's "innocent until proven [[beyond any reasonable doubt) guilty," not "guilty until proven innocent." Yes, you can certainly make an educated guess, but you still don't know for sure. And Marv is up there saying "I can definitely say that there was no intense struggle or fight before he killed that boy at point blank range!" Please.... You WEREN'T THERE. You have no fucking clue that there was no struggle. QUOTE]

Ok then godammit! Where is the blood? Where is all of the blood that should be on the clothing of both Martin and Zimmerman during that alleged intense struggle, fight that Zimmerman claims made him fear for his life? Where is it?

There is none because he lied...;.....AGAIN! Simply made that shit up once he was sure Trayvon was dead and unable speak! He caused his own minor injuries and I would not put it passed him to have broken or had someone else smash his nose between the time he was let go from the Police Station that night and the time he went to the the physician's assistant the next day!

There also was NO DNA found under the finger nails of Trayvon Martin. There were also NO injuries to his hands that were examined thoroughly by the mortician and the medicial examiner! It must have been the cleaniness, most polite fight to the death I've ever heard of! Get outta Dodge!!!!

**skooldem1** · 07-07-2013, 01:31 PM

I don't know how this will turn out. The prosecution did not do a good job. It should have been a slam dunk and it wasn't. They have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt. They didn't really do that. A lot of their witnesses helped the defense. The defense hasn't even presented their case yet. In the end it is up to the jurors.

**Jerry Oz** · 07-07-2013, 02:01 PM

They should have tried him for manslaughter instead of 2nd degree murder. Much different standards of proof are necessary.

thomas96 · 07-07-2013, 03:35 PM

Skooldem1, and Jerry Oz:

I completely agree with everything you both said. From what I've read, the prosecution didn't do well, and I think they would've done much better with a manslaughter charge.

Marv: I don't know all of the information of this case. I did see photos of the back of Zimmerman's head and his face from the night of the situation. They looked bloody and beat up. I haven't followed it very closely, but from what I do know, there is absolutely no way you can definitely say all that you said and be 100% sure of it. I'm not saying that you're wrong or that I disagree with you, I'm just saying that you have no idea what actually happened that night. You're so sure that Zimmerman has lied about everything yet there's no proof to most of it. It's mostly the prosecution saying that he lied without sufficient evidence to back it up. Personally from what I've seen, I think Zimmerman should be in jail for this. But if he ends up being innocent I'm not going to go out and riot and flip out. I will trust that our justice system made the right decision as the judge, jury, defense, and prosecution know a hell of a lot more about this situation than you or I or the media or anybody else thinking they know everything about it, when in reality they don't know shit. It was a very tragic and sad occurrence that could have been avoided in many ways. You can't definitely say Trayvon did nothing wrong in this, just like someone can't say that he was definitely beating the shit out of Zimmerman and it was self-defense. Zimmerman shouldn't have been following him, but that isn't against the law. IF Trayvon started the violence [[which from what I've seen is definitely POSSIBLE) then Zimmerman should not go to jail. If not, then Zimmerman should be locked up. We don't know for sure either way. Let the jury decide.

**Jerry Oz** · 07-07-2013, 03:46 PM

Thomas96, while I'm not completely disagreeing with you, in my opinion, the instigator for this incident was Zimmerman, who followed Martin. Had he not decided to follow the "suspect", then the incident would not have happened. [[Question: What was he suspected of doing? Walking while black?) I'm willing to bet that he wouldn't have followed him if he didn't have the gun in his pocket, so the possession of the gun most definitely should be considered as a motivating factor in the case.

I submit to you, that if a black youth followed a white man down a Florida street and the man turned around and shot him, it would likely be adjudicated self-defense. So whether Martin attempted to defend himself from the "creepy" man or to attack him without cause is subject to interpretation of what his responsibility to protect himself entails.

The thing that amazes me is that nobody hits on the point that if [[big "if") Martin was reaching for the gun, then he may have been attempting to defend himself as well. Why else would he have grabbed for it if he had the upper hand and was bashing Zimmerman's head into jelly? The catalyst for the incident was Zimmerman. To say that he predetermined to shoot the kid is the only problem that I have with the charges that were brought.

**Roberta75** · 07-07-2013, 04:49 PM

Originally Posted by skooldem1

I don't know how this will turn out. The prosecution did not do a good job. It should have been a slam dunk and it wasn't. They have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt. They didn't really do that. A lot of their witnesses helped the defense. The defense hasn't even presented their case yet. In the end it is up to the jurors.

I watch the trial all day on Friday and Trayvons mom and brother broke my heart. The coroner gentlman was not the best witness for the prosecution imo. I hope the jurors find Zimerman guilty but well have to wait and see. I'm praying justice is served but look what happen to OJ back in 1995. He killed his wife and her friend imo and he walked although karma took real good care of him in 2008.

Ive said it before and ill say it again if Zimmerman had listened to the 911 operator and stopped following Trayvon then that young 17 year old angel would still be with us and there would be no trial. Zimmerman took the law into his own hands and look what happened.

Roberta

**soulster** · 07-07-2013, 04:57 PM

Originally Posted by thomas96

I haven't watched the trial, but if my understanding is correct, doesn't the prosecution have to prove beyond any reasonable doubt that Zimmerman is guilty of 2nd degree murder. The defense doesn't have to do anything. They don't have to create reasonable doubt. It's "innocent until proven [[beyond any reasonable doubt) guilty," not "guilty until proven innocent." Yes, you can certainly make an educated guess, but you still don't know for sure. And Marv is up there saying "I can definitely say that there was no intense struggle or fight before he killed that boy at point blank range!" Please.... You WEREN'T THERE. You have no fucking clue that there was no struggle. Yes it's clear George Zimmerman killed Trayvon Martin. He has admitted it, and that is widely known. He claims self-defense, and the prosecution is trying to prove beyond any reasonable doubt that it wasn't self-defense. It's up for the jury to decide, not for you people to guess, whether it's "educated" or not.

But, back in the real world...

**soulster** · 07-07-2013, 05:05 PM

Originally Posted by Roberta75

I watch the trial all day on Friday and Trayvons mom and brother broke my heart. The coroner gentlman was not the best witness for the prosecution imo. I hope the jurors find Zimerman guilty but well have to wait and see. I'm praying justice is served but look what happen to OJ back in 1995. He killed his wife and her friend imo and he walked although karma took real good care of him in 2008.

Ive said it before and ill say it again if Zimmerman had listened to the 911 operator and stopped following Trayvon then that young 17 year old angel would still be with us and there would be no trial. Zimmerman took the law into his own hands and look what happened.

Roberta

Unlike some people on this thread, I have had the opportunity to watch the trial, not read about it. The prosecution has done a pretty good job. If Zimmerman's people are so sure their defense is air-tight, there wouldn't have had to do anything, but they did. They would have had no need to dig into Martin's past or attempt to present martin as he aggressor. there would have been no reason for Zimmerman to lie, and he has been caught in many lies throughout this case and trial.

**marv2** · 07-07-2013, 06:33 PM

Originally Posted by Jerry Oz

Thomas96, while I'm not completely disagreeing with you, in my opinion, the instigator for this incident was Zimmerman, who followed Martin. Had he not decided to follow the "suspect", then the incident would not have happened. [[Question: What was he suspected of doing? Walking while black?) I'm willing to bet that he wouldn't have followed him if he didn't have the gun in his pocket, so the possession of the gun most definitely should be considered as a motivating factor in the case.

I submit to you, that if a black youth followed a white man down a Florida street and the man turned around and shot him, it would likely be adjudicated self-defense. So whether Martin attempted to defend himself from the "creepy" man or to attack him without cause is subject to interpretation of what his responsibility to protect himself entails.

The thing that amazes me is that nobody hits on the point that if [[big "if") Martin was reaching for the gun, then he may have been attempting to defend himself as well. Why else would he have grabbed for it if he had the upper hand and was bashing Zimmerman's head into jelly? The catalyst for the incident was Zimmerman. To say that he predetermined to shoot the kid is the only problem that I have with the charges that were brought.

Jerry, FYI! It has been determined that there was no DNA from Trayvon Martin on George Zimmerman's gun. In fact, the DNA expert concluded that it was impossible for Trayvon to have even touched Zimmerman's gun. There were no DNA from Trayvon or any of his fingerprints anywhere on the gun. Zimmerman claimed that Trayvon grabbed his gun and they struggle over it. Right after this he shot Trayvon in the chest.

thomas96 · 07-07-2013, 06:49 PM

Originally Posted by marv2

Jerry, FYI! It has been determined that there was no DNA from Trayvon Martin on George Zimmerman's gun. In fact, the DNA expert concluded that it was impossible for Trayvon to have even touched Zimmerman's gun. There were no DNA from Trayvon or any of his fingerprints anywhere on the gun. Zimmerman claimed that Trayvon grabbed his gun and they struggle over it. Right after this he shot Trayvon in the chest.

Zimmerman never said Trayvon touched the gun, he said that he was reaching for it. The DNA expert concluded that there was no DNA at all on the gun, not even Zimmerman's. Clearly it doesn't mean anything either way.

Jerry, I agree I think Zimmerman shouldn't have followed Trayvon, but that is not against the law. If Trayvon attacked Zimmerman because he was following Trayvon and then shot and killed him in self defense, then Zimmerman never broke any National or Florida law and shouldn't be in jail. Now, I don't think that happened, but I have no idea as I wasn't there. As for your point about the reaching, Zimmerman could argue that he was reaching for the gun to kill Zimmerman or so that Zimmerman couldn't kill him. No way to know, so whether he was reaching in self defense or not doesn't matter because that can't be proved beyond a reasonable doubt.

**Jerry Oz** · 07-07-2013, 07:02 PM

You missed my main point. If a black kid in a hoodie hops out of his car to follow somebody - especially a white man - and the person who is being followed pulls out his gun and shoots, the shooter will likely be given the benefit of doubt regarding self-defense. With that being said, it's naive to suggest that Martin should have waited for Zimmerman to reveal his intentions after he tried to shake him. Anybody does have the right to walk down the street, but at some point, following somebody becomes stalking and it is not unreasonable to act before the stalker does.

**marv2** · 07-07-2013, 07:33 PM

Originally Posted by thomas96

Zimmerman never said Trayvon touched the gun, he said that he was reaching for it. The DNA expert concluded that there was no DNA at all on the gun, not even Zimmerman's. Clearly it doesn't mean anything either way.

Jerry, I agree I think Zimmerman shouldn't have followed Trayvon, but that is not against the law. If Trayvon attacked Zimmerman because he was following Trayvon and then shot and killed him in self defense, then Zimmerman never broke any National or Florida law and shouldn't be in jail. Now, I don't think that happened, but I have no idea as I wasn't there. As for your point about the reaching, Zimmerman could argue that he was reaching for the gun to kill Zimmerman or so that Zimmerman couldn't kill him. No way to know, so whether he was reaching in self defense or not doesn't matter because that can't be proved beyond a reasonable doubt.

Uh, uh, nope! I just watched the DNA expert's testimony again last night and he DID find George Zimmerman's DNA on the gun and on the holster!

**skooldem1** · 07-07-2013, 07:43 PM

Just so we are clear on what "stalking" is. It is not following someone. Stalking is a repetitive pattern.

Following someone is not a crime. I say this not in support of the defense. Just for clarity.

**Jerry Oz** · 07-07-2013, 08:56 PM

Originally Posted by skooldem1

Just so we are clear on what "stalking" is. It is not following someone. Stalking is a repetitive pattern.

Following someone is not a crime. I say this not in support of the defense. Just for clarity.

If I see you following and I run away, you're continuing to follow me is analagous to stalking. If you don't believe me, chase a white girl through downtown sidewalks and see the response you get when you assert your right to follow her.

But you know this.

**marv2** · 07-07-2013, 08:58 PM

Originally Posted by Jerry Oz

If I see you following and I run away, you're continuing to follow me is analagous to stalking. If you don't believe me, chase a white girl through downtown sidewalks and see the response you get when you assert your right to follow her.

But you know this.

Oh good example Jerry! Great example actually.........

**soulster** · 07-07-2013, 09:22 PM

Originally Posted by Jerry Oz

If I see you following and I run away, you're continuing to follow me is analagous to stalking. If you don't believe me, chase a white girl through downtown sidewalks and see the response you get when you assert your right to follow her.

But you know this.

Beautiful description! Although legally, it is defined as a repeated unwanted attention, but in this case, most police would define this as stalking.

**Jerry Oz** · 07-13-2013, 10:06 PM

Not guilty. I wish that rotten bastard nothing good in his life.

**marv2** · 07-13-2013, 10:25 PM

....and the demon walks...........

**Kamasu_Jr** · 07-14-2013, 12:12 AM

Acquitted? Justice has failed Trayvon Martin. It seems Zimmerman should have been found guilty of something. He can be SUED FOR clearly violating Trayvon's civil rights. Trayvon's parents settled a civil suit against the neigborhood association that hired Zimmerman. Allegedly they got a million dollars. Still he can be sued personally. He's supposedly gone into hiding. What a punkass.

**marv2** · 07-14-2013, 01:02 AM

Only in America can an innocent, unarmed teenager go out to buy a soft drink and candy and be murdered before he can return home and NO ONE is held accountable for it. Only in America do they claim love and protection of it's children as long as they are not black!

**splanky** · 07-14-2013, 05:54 AM

Though I knew it was possible that this would happen doesn't make me any less pissed the
f*#k off....Still I have to agree with what Marv said: Only in America....which practically
garantees it will happen again...

**Kamasu_Jr** · 07-14-2013, 09:09 AM

What's really sad is this is another life/survival lesson I will have to teach my sons when they get older...how to deal with white and black police officers if confronted; how to conduct themselves in places where they might be judged or viewed as suspicious; not to ride four and five deep in a car because you will probably be stopped by police; These are the same things my dad was taught, the same things he taught me and my brothers...it just never stops.

**Jerry Oz** · 07-14-2013, 09:48 AM

Don't forget Geraldo Rivera's advice to young black males: Don't wear a hoodie, even in the rain.

**Roberta75** · 07-14-2013, 09:51 AM

We now have the trilogy of cold blooded murderers OJ Simpson and Casey Anthony and George Zimmerman. smh in disgust and real real sad this morning and disgusted and sick to my stomach over the florida verdict.

May god kiss the face of this 17 year old angel that Zimmerman gunned down.

**Roberta75** · 07-14-2013, 09:55 AM

Originally Posted by Jerry Oz

Don't forget Geraldo Rivera's advice to young black males: Don't wear a hoodie, even in the rain.

And dont ever forget that Geraldo Rivera take a paycheck from Fox news the network that supported George Zimmerman.

**Jerry Oz** · 07-14-2013, 10:34 AM

It's amazing that the same state that sends 12 year old black boys to prison for life for carelessly killing a playmate cannot convict someone who raced after someone with a gun in his pocket and wound up shooting him to death.

smark21 · 07-14-2013, 01:19 PM

Hopefully Zimmerman will do himself and the world a favor and kill himself.

**marv2** · 07-14-2013, 03:49 PM

Originally Posted by smark21

Hopefully Zimmerman will do himself and the world a favor and kill himself.

If he does, it probably won't be a gun to the head........too big of a wuss for that.

smark21 · 07-14-2013, 04:39 PM

Petition to open up a Federal Civil rights case: http://petitions.moveon.org/sign/ope...d&r_by=8203489

**soulster** · 07-14-2013, 08:05 PM

America, where, in 2013, an unarmed Black kid can be shot in cold blood by a perp who gets away with it. There was a mountain of evidence against him, yet the all-white jury decided to believe that Martin was the aggressor.

America is moving backwards.

Oh yeah: to hell with Gerardo Rivera.

**Roberta75** · 07-14-2013, 09:21 PM

George Zimmerman stalked this child for no good reason and disobeyed 911 orders not to follow Trayvon. If Zimmerman had listened to the 911 opeartor Travon Martin would still be alive today but he didnt listen he went after a 17 year old kid and robbed him of his life and his dreams and his future.

God will eventually judge Zimmerman and in Gods court he wont get off.

Roberta

**Jerry Oz** · 07-14-2013, 09:27 PM

The was one black juror. I'm pissed off to think that nearly 60 years after the death of Emmitt Till, nothing has really changed. Stevie had it right: You might have the cash but you cannot cash in your face. We don't want you living in here.

**marv2** · 07-14-2013, 10:20 PM

Originally Posted by Jerry Oz

It's amazing that the same state that sends 12 year old black boys to prison for life for carelessly killing a playmate cannot convict someone who raced after someone with a gun in his pocket and wound up shooting him to death.

I remember that case. The young boy was mimicking what he saw on television. The WWF right?

**marv2** · 07-14-2013, 10:21 PM

Originally Posted by Jerry Oz

The was one black juror. I'm pissed off to think that nearly 60 years after the death of Emmitt Till, nothing has really changed. Stevie had it right: You might have the cash but you cannot cash in your face. We don't want you living in here.

This is the "Emmitt Till " situation of our generation, but it ain't hardly going to turn out that way...........I'm going to be silent and watch!

**Jerry Oz** · 07-14-2013, 10:27 PM

Originally Posted by marv2

I remember that case. The young boy was mimicking what he saw on television. The WWF right?

Yep. He was mimicking wrestling moves on a little girl. He certainly knew better than to do it, but to charge him with first-degree murder and sentence him to life without parole was crazy. He eventually was released after some special efforts, but he's screwed up in the head. I think that he was institutionalized again before he was 21 and probably remains in jail.

**soulster** · 07-15-2013, 11:03 PM

Interesting why juror E-81 wasn't kicked off during jury selection. here is where the prosecution did another poor job in jury selection. The judge should have dismissed her.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_1...ason-to-fight/

Here are the comments of another juror B-37:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/entert...69e_story.html

Racism is alive and well in America.

The U.S. Justice Department is reopening the investigation of the case.
http://www.allvoices.com/contributed...-shooting-case

http://www.allvoices.com/contributed...on-martin-case

**Jerry Oz** · 07-15-2013, 11:16 PM

Emmitt Till, Trayvon Martin, thousands more. One day we'll learn our place in this country. That will be the day that we realize how much we are missed in the cotton fields. The chains never actually came off, did they?

**marv2** · 07-16-2013, 12:00 AM

Originally Posted by soulster

Interesting why juror E-81 wasn't kicked off during jury selection. here is where the prosecution did another poor job in jury selection. The judge should have dismissed her.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_1...ason-to-fight/

Here are the comments of another juror B-37:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/entert...69e_story.html

Racism is alive and well in America.

The U.S. Justice Department is reopening the investigation of the case.
http://www.allvoices.com/contributed...-shooting-case

http://www.allvoices.com/contributed...on-martin-case

If she is the one interviewed by Anderson Cooper tonight. I saw it. She was on George Zimmerman's side from the word GO! She refers to George Zimmerman simply as "George" through out her interview. She claims he had only good intentions. She is disturbing to put it mildly and is also writing a book along with her husband............

**marv2** · 07-16-2013, 12:03 AM

Originally Posted by Jerry Oz

Emmitt Till, Trayvon Martin, thousands more. One day we'll learn our place in this country. That will be the day that we realize how much we are missed in the cotton fields. The chains never actually came off, did they?

I can only speak for myself and there are no chains on me or have there ever been! My father, grandfather, great grandfather worked, fought and died so that I can be as free as anyone. I refuse to let racism define my life, my happiness. I have fought it and will always fight it.

**soulster** · 07-16-2013, 12:04 AM

Thanks for the heads up. I'll look for the interview.

smark21 · 07-16-2013, 08:03 AM

It’s also very telling that the juror interviewed last night on CNN was shot and lit to conceal her identity. The trial is over, why not come out and declare who you are if you’re so proud of your verdict? Coward.

**Jerry Oz** · 07-16-2013, 08:10 AM

I wonder if the juror would hold the same opinion if Zimmerman was following her around. Or better yet, if Trayvon Martin was following her around.

**Roberta75** · 07-16-2013, 09:37 AM

Originally Posted by Jerry Oz

I wonder if the juror would hold the same opinion if Zimmerman was following her around. Or better yet, if Trayvon Martin was following her around.

When she told Anderson Cooper that Zimmermans "learned his lesson" it disgusted me. smh that this woman was even allowed to be a juror. Zimmerman shot a 17 year old child and this woman think he learned his lesson. That stand your ground law needs to go.

And Zimmerman got his gun back. Im real glad i dont live in Florida if this is what is still walking around with a gun after robbing a young man of his life. smh.

Roberta

**soulster** · 07-16-2013, 10:46 AM

All kinds of people are angry about the BS verdict. I talked to one crusty White guy with confederate tattoos who is steaming mad about this.

**Roberta75** · 07-17-2013, 02:37 PM

A log of the 46 calls Zimmerman made to 911 non ememergancy. This is a real disturbed person who profile people.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...plete-log.html

Roberta

**MotownSteve** · 07-17-2013, 07:48 PM

Originally Posted by Roberta75

When she told Anderson Cooper that Zimmermans "learned his lesson" it disgusted me. smh that this woman was even allowed to be a juror. Zimmerman shot a 17 year old child and this woman think he learned his lesson. That stand your ground law needs to go.

And Zimmerman got his gun back. Im real glad i dont live in Florida if this is what is still walking around with a gun after robbing a young man of his life. smh.

Roberta

Two comments.

The juror. When questioned by the prosecution, she said peaceful demonstrators are rioting. How in the world did they let her stay on the jury?

He got his gun back. I can picture him walking down the street and a man approaches from the other direction. As he does so, he puts his hand in his pocket to get his cigarettes, or car keys, whatever. Zimmerman thinks he is reaching for a gun, so he shoots him in self defense.