Racist murder of 17 year old Trayvon Martin in Florida

[P-Shark: The Revenge]

OK I tried to make a joke. Maybe I should've said newer ways to spread there racist views

[marv2]

Random thought:

Does anyone think that the longer this case plays out and Zimmerman remains free from arrest that it could be turned into some sort of political backlash against the President? We've already heard Zimmerman's father flat out accuse the President of directing hatred toward his family.

[marv2]

Random thought:

That fact that George Zimmerman's father is a retired judge and the way the Sanford, Florida police handled this case and his going free without arrest for so long have something to do with one or the other?

[ms_m]

I agree. Someone once described "news" as media coverage of unusual events. On one hand, the fact that these things still make the news means that they are anomalies to normal interaction. On the other hand, the fact that so many children die every day, it's impossible for them to all make the national news is distressing. If I hated being here, I'd leave. But I'm sure things are worse everywhere else, so I'm right with you that it's better to impact lives on whatever scale possible. Even if it's just one kid who might need to know that someone cares.

That's the way I try to look at it Jerry. Trust, I really do feel ya but as corny as it sounds, we really are the change we seek. How can I expect anyone to change if I'm not wiling to do the work to do may part to correct my own sht?


@ Pshark, racism didn't begin with the advent of technology or even 40 years ago....it's been here long before we came along and will be here long after we have gone. If you think sht is intense now, try to imagine living 60 years ago, 70 years ago, 100 years ago being a Black man in a White world....after you try to imagine that....check out a reservation [[and not a casino) and sit down and talk to Native Americans and see what they have to say on the subject of racism.

We still have a hell of along way to go, but we've come a hell of a long way too. When you look at other parts of the world one of the things that stand out...the USA is a baby [[well maybe now a teenager) compared to most other parts of the world....as advanced as we are, we are still developing and growing and if we keep the extremist out of politics, we'll continue to develop and grow. If not we're screwed and again....then what?

[marv2]

Did anyone else see the big dust up or rather blow out tonight on CNN between Piers Morgan and Toure? Whew!

[ms_m]

OK I tried to make a joke. Maybe I should've said newer ways to spread there racist views

LOL...ok missed the joke but racist views went stealth for awhile but that's about all they did.

[soulster]

Random thought:

Does anyone think that the longer this case plays out and Zimmerman remains free from arrest that it could be turned into some sort of political backlash against the President? We've already heard Zimmerman's father flat out accuse the President of directing hatred toward his family.

Whay R. Zimmerman said will work for those who hate President Obama.

[marv2]

Whay R. Zimmerman said will work for those who hate President Obama.

I agree. It's going to be a tough election already and that man and this case is just feeding into it. I cannot understand why it is taking them so long to arrest Zimmerman. I know that they have a law in Florida that if the accused is not arrested and formally charged within 170-175 days of the crime, then he can walk free and never be charged with murdering Trayvon Martin.

[marv2]

Piers Morgan vs Toure....It's getting ugly! Check this out:

http://piersmorgan.blogs.cnn.com/201...se/?hpt=pm_mid

[ms_m]

Now you have struck at something that I have been thinking about most of the day. If there was not such an outcry for justice from Trayvon's parents and the public, would this murder go completely unpunished? I don't know, I may have missed something, but was it the intent of the Sanford Police to just let George Zimmerman completely go and to later explain to Trayvon's parents how he ended dead and there was nothing that could be done about it?

Marv keep in mind, there was at least one officer that didn't believe Zimmerman, [[that we know of) the State Prosecutor was the one that rejected this and refused to prosecute the case.

When this first went National and Gingrich and the author of this law and other Republican law makers threw the police under the bus, I figured there was a hell of a lot more to all of this. Then they try to divert everyone's attention with the hoodie and MJ and all that stuff....I think we'll find out this goes waaaay deep, wide spread and high up as well.

[marv2]

Here is more.....

[ms_m]

I couldn't watch all of this but I don't get the point. If he felt the Zimmerman brother should have been challenged, why did his network turn down an interview with the guy? Why not bring him on and challenge him? I barely know who Peirs Morgan is and never heard of Toure.

[ms_m]

Update: Piers Morgan Books MSNBC’s Touré In Real Time To Settle Twitter Feud
by Tommy Christopher | 2:21 pm, March 30th, 2012



http://www.mediaite.com/tv/piers-mor...-twitter-feud/


Reading about it is much better on the ears but based on their tweets, I think they are both lame....shrugs...sorry Marv. I'm guessing they are both much better at what they really do. Neither one come off like a Walter Cronkite type but that's probably me just being old.

[soulster]

Wow!

There is a place for Piers Morgan on Faux news if he leaves CNN, that's for sure! What I want to see is Toure interview a Zimmerman! I would pay to see that!

Oh where are the hard-hitting journalists when you need them? The Zimmermans know not to go anywhere near MSNBC's Lawrence O'Donnell or Rachel Maddow! They will eat them for lunch and spit out the remains! Hell, George Zimmerman's attorney even ran off the set before the interview started! I'm sure they will feel right at home with Sean Hannity, Greta VanSusteren, or Bill O'Reilly.

The problem I see is that these soft peddlers assume their audiences having that "third eye". They assume today's audience will see right through their guest's lies. but, they don't. They more often than not tend to agree or sympathize with the interviewee if they like his or her viewpoints or identify with them. Perhaps Morgan assumes that everyone hates George Zimmerman and don't believe him.

I think Toure may be shooting in the dark, but he has a good point about Piers Morgan not understanding the nuances of anti-Black racism in this country. Piers didn't refute it! Sure, they have anti-Black in Britain, but it's different. And, Morgan did what most Whites always do when confronted about their behavior is deflect the accusations by changing the subject or making the accuser seem irrational, emotional, and incompetent.

[ms_m]

I'm probably going to regret this but I have to know. What is the difference between anti Black in the UK and Anti Black in America?

[144man]

I'm probably going to regret this but I have to know. What is the difference between anti Black in the UK and Anti Black in America?

Not a damn thing...we just have fewer guns over here.

[ms_m]

Not a damn thing...we just have fewer guns over here.

Thanks 144man. I didn't think there was but I thought I would ask.

[juicefree20]

I'm getting ready to do an event, but just wanted to weigh in with a few observations before I go...

This just in from the New York Daily News...

Despite the ridiculous claims of this hellified attack upon Zimmerman's person, Richard Kurtz, the mortician who handled Trayvon's corpse has weighed in.

Mr. Kurtz reported that he found no scratches, no cuts, nor bruises on Trayvon's hands, nor body. He said that the only indication of any type of attack or assault, was the gunshot to Trayvon's chest.

The Daily News also reports that it's acquired EMS documents that pertain to the shooting & the EMS report indicates that Zimmerman suffered no serious injuries on the night in question. I believe that a coroners report would prove to be a rather interesting read, that is if no one's trying to backtrack in order to cover their tracks.

The Daily News also spoke with a former colleague who indicated that Zimmerman had been fired as a security officer for being "too aggressive". Considering his pursuit of Trayvon AGAINST the suggestion of the dispatcher, can anyone rule this out? I must admit that I find it rather interesting that while they're dredging through the past of THE VICTIM, I don't see them doing due diligence into digging deep into the background of the shooter. I believe that if they did, they'd find more than a few skeletons & would likely find that just as he profiled Trayvon, that he's likely a case study for frustrated, wanna-be police officers, whom when not quite up to par, go through life as frustrated people who tend to overdo things a bit.

Like folks who call the police when they hear the noise of squirrels in a bush, while imagining all sorts of mayhem about to ensue. Seriously, anyone who lives in a gated community & feels the need to call police about 60 times in a little over a year has got to have some serious issues.

Another argument that I find to be ridiculous is the fact that some are arguing that Trayvon's shooting isn't racist because Zimmerman is part-Hispanic & that's a dumb argument from where I sit, as I didn't realize that the only persons whom could possibly be guilty of racial bias were whites.

Whether he's white, hispanic or as purple as Barney the damn dinosaur, the fact remains that that man had made up in his mind that he saw a young BLACK male & to him, that young BLACK male looked suspicious.

POINT BLANK!

While I'd love nothing more than to see them ship Zimmerman to my city, preferably to the Brownsville, East New York or Far Rockaway areas, where he'd find a whole lot of ''suspicious' looking brothers who'd twist his cap in a New York minute, the reality is that would be an empty victory.

With that said, I agree with Ms M, we've gotta keep our eyes on the prize.

The fact of the matter is that we get angry whenever these tyes of things occur, but when these laws which allow & encourage this crap are being proposed & presented for a vote, the people whom tend to suffer THE MOST, tend to do THE LEAST to try to prevent them.

SO while a bunch of our dumb asses are talking about how we ain't going to vote, folks just keep slipping crap right past us, in clear view right under our noses. And why? Becuse some of us are too damn apathetic & these folks know it.

If you're not at least going to TRY to be part of the solution, then you're part of the problem. And when it becomes more than obvious that there's a certain segment of society which has shown that it wants to systematically void your rights, while promoting several agendas which will prove injurious to you & you do nothing...then the Zimmerman's of the world wil be the least of your/our problems.

You see, the problem lies less with the Zimmerman's of the world, because they've been with us all along & as long as there's what we call ''mankind'', they'll always be with us. The true problem lies with the laws which allow this crap to continue & marches notwithstanding, the APATHY of OUR OWN communities, some of whom would rather march whenever this kind of crap occurs, than they would learn how these bills are passed, to deluge their Congressmen/women with mail which voices their displeasure, or to get off of their asses to pull a damn lever every 4 to 8 years.

It's THOSE kinds of attitudes which allow the Zimmerman's of the world to continue to ply their trades, as we've become too REACTIVE [[marches, riots, etc.) and not PROACTIVE enough to prevent the weeds from taking hold to begin with.

AND THEY KNOW IT.

Which is exactly why Michael Griffiths begat Eleanor Bumpurs, whom begat Diallo & Baez, & Sean Bell & now Trayvon Martin.

And for as long as far too many of us don't understand this & stop making dumb-assed excuses for not getting into the game & understanding laws & why we need to cast those ballots, it's a guarantee that we'll be somewhere, on some street in America, marching yet again when this happens yet again.

Just because there are a bunch of bigots & things don't seem to ever be fair, doesn't mean that you shouldn't resist what is being attempted to be done & just throw up your hands & quit as far too many have done. They're counting on that apathy to allow our rights to be systematically taken away, or to be dialed back to 1935.

And while folks are talking about terrorists, might I remind them that leading up to the year 2000, some Americans were building underground bunkers, purchasing powdered milk, dessicated meats & preparing for ''Armeggedon'' aka "The Great Race War", in which they would kill other AMERICANS & were training their little kids to do likewise.

I believe that 911 lulled some of us into believing that hundreds of years of bigotry, hatred & disrespect had suddenly gone away because of 911.

Some Americans have seemed to always needed someone to hate. 9/11 not withstanding, you've got to admit that we've always been a favorite & most convienient target.

And for the most bigoted, 9/11 never changed that & never will.

Just look at how the rhetoric has wratched up since President Obama took office & honestly, I don't know why we seem to be surprised by any of this. Truthfully, we can't change people's hearts, but we can damn sure stay on top of draconian laws which may prove to endanger us.

And if we don't worry about our own self-preservation, then why in the world would we expect anyone else to care?

We CAN do something to prevent most of this crap. That is, if we can stop watching "Housewives" & focusing on dumbed-down entertainment & other such bullshit long enough to actually get off of our collective asses & deal with things that really matter for our collective survival.

And that "WE" IS NOT necessarily a "BLACK THANG", as I believe that ALL poor & middle class are at risk & are extremely dipensable in the overall scheme of the picture. In the bigger picture, I don't believe that the powers-that-be love poor or middle-class whites than they do minorities. HOWEVER...they need all of those folks to believe that they & their way of life are in jeopardy & to continue to vote for them & their agendas. As soon as they have no need for them, they'll find out what many of us already know. But it will be too late.

It's just sad to see how many of us so willingly give up our power & collectively, we're more powerful than many of us seem to understand.

Which leads us back to Trayvon because until more people understand this, there'll always be another Trayvon Martin or Zimmerman waiting in the wings.

[ms_m]

LOL....first of all Juice, I actually read this from beginning to end....good post. 2nd, is it an R& B event, if so please post some pics.

[ms_m]

Juice, I was thinking about your statements about 911 and although I agree with you, the reference I made to 911 isn’t about racism per se.

The closest thing this country has ever witnessed prior to 911 was Pearl Harbor and since many people see Hawaii as a foreign place as oppose to a State, many people were lulled into this false sense of security that no one could ever pull off a major and or horrific attack on our shores. 9-11 seems to have destroyed that sense of security and all the rhetoric about terrorist, high level alerts, taking shoes off at the airport etc. has only fueled that loss of security for many people. A loss of security tends to bring fear and fear will manifest itself in many ways…anger, paranoia, defensive posturing,….And then all those emotions create other emotions that people too often react on and to.

I agree 911 didn’t foster racism, I agree it was already here but the psychological effects of that day are deep and the media and politicians seem to push those fears every chance they get. All these things coupled with extremist and hate speech and ignorant rhetoric were bound to have a negative affect on the collective psyche of this country. That’s what I was referring to.

[ms_m]

I just ran across something interesting. Apparently there is another law in Florida outside of the Stand Your Ground Law that isn’t being discussed. This is troubling.


Text of Florida Statute that precludes arrest until a probable cause determination is made:

A law enforcement agency may use standard procedures for investigating the use of force as described in subsection [[1), but the agency may not arrest the person for using force unless it determines that there is probable cause that the force that was used was unlawful. A person who uses force as permitted in s. 776.012, s. 776.013, or s. 776.031 is justified in using such force and is immune from criminal prosecution and civil action for the use of such force, unless the person against whom force was used is a law enforcement officer, as defined in s. 943.10[[14), who was acting in the performance of his or her official duties and the officer identified himself or herself in accordance with any applicable law or the person using force knew or reasonably should have known that the person was a law enforcement officer. As used in this subsection, the term “criminal prosecution” includes arresting, detaining in custody, and charging or prosecuting the defendant.[[2) Immunity from criminal prosecution and civil action for justifiable use of force.—[[1) 776.032


Sections .012 is the Florida Self-Defense statute.

[jillfoster]

Juice, funny you should mention survivalists and underground bunkers, look at this... this one company has installed 1,100 of these puppies. at 80,000$ a shot.

[marv2]

I'm getting ready to do an event, but just wanted to weigh in with a few observations before I go...

This just in from the New York Daily News...

Despite the ridiculous claims of this hellified attack upon Zimmerman's person, Richard Kurtz, the mortician who handled Trayvon's corpse has weighed in.

Mr. Kurtz reported that he found no scratches, no cuts, nor bruises on Trayvon's hands, nor body. He said that the only indication of any type of attack or assault, was the gunshot to Trayvon's chest.

The Daily News also reports that it's acquired EMS documents that pertain to the shooting & the EMS report indicates that Zimmerman suffered no serious injuries on the night in question. I believe that a coroners report would prove to be a rather interesting read, that is if no one's trying to backtrack in order to cover their tracks.

The Daily News also spoke with a former colleague who indicated that Zimmerman had been fired as a security officer for being "too aggressive". Considering his pursuit of Trayvon AGAINST the suggestion of the dispatcher, can anyone rule this out? I must admit that I find it rather interesting that while they're dredging through the past of THE VICTIM, I don't see them doing due diligence into digging deep into the background of the shooter. I believe that if they did, they'd find more than a few skeletons & would likely find that just as he profiled Trayvon, that he's likely a case study for frustrated, wanna-be police officers, whom when not quite up to par, go through life as frustrated people who tend to overdo things a bit.

Like folks who call the police when they hear the noise of squirrels in a bush, while imagining all sorts of mayhem about to ensue. Seriously, anyone who lives in a gated community & feels the need to call police about 60 times in a little over a year has got to have some serious issues.

Another argument that I find to be ridiculous is the fact that some are arguing that Trayvon's shooting isn't racist because Zimmerman is part-Hispanic & that's a dumb argument from where I sit, as I didn't realize that the only persons whom could possibly be guilty of racial bias were whites.

Whether he's white, hispanic or as purple as Barney the damn dinosaur, the fact remains that that man had made up in his mind that he saw a young BLACK male & to him, that young BLACK male looked suspicious.

POINT BLANK!

While I'd love nothing more than to see them ship Zimmerman to my city, preferably to the Brownsville, East New York or Far Rockaway areas, where he'd find a whole lot of ''suspicious' looking brothers who'd twist his cap in a New York minute, the reality is that would be an empty victory.

With that said, I agree with Ms M, we've gotta keep our eyes on the prize.

The fact of the matter is that we get angry whenever these tyes of things occur, but when these laws which allow & encourage this crap are being proposed & presented for a vote, the people whom tend to suffer THE MOST, tend to do THE LEAST to try to prevent them.

SO while a bunch of our dumb asses are talking about how we ain't going to vote, folks just keep slipping crap right past us, in clear view right under our noses. And why? Becuse some of us are too damn apathetic & these folks know it.

If you're not at least going to TRY to be part of the solution, then you're part of the problem. And when it becomes more than obvious that there's a certain segment of society which has shown that it wants to systematically void your rights, while promoting several agendas which will prove injurious to you & you do nothing...then the Zimmerman's of the world wil be the least of your/our problems.

You see, the problem lies less with the Zimmerman's of the world, because they've been with us all along & as long as there's what we call ''mankind'', they'll always be with us. The true problem lies with the laws which allow this crap to continue & marches notwithstanding, the APATHY of OUR OWN communities, some of whom would rather march whenever this kind of crap occurs, than they would learn how these bills are passed, to deluge their Congressmen/women with mail which voices their displeasure, or to get off of their asses to pull a damn lever every 4 to 8 years.

It's THOSE kinds of attitudes which allow the Zimmerman's of the world to continue to ply their trades, as we've become too REACTIVE [[marches, riots, etc.) and not PROACTIVE enough to prevent the weeds from taking hold to begin with.

AND THEY KNOW IT.

Which is exactly why Michael Griffiths begat Eleanor Bumpurs, whom begat Diallo & Baez, & Sean Bell & now Trayvon Martin.

And for as long as far too many of us don't understand this & stop making dumb-assed excuses for not getting into the game & understanding laws & why we need to cast those ballots, it's a guarantee that we'll be somewhere, on some street in America, marching yet again when this happens yet again.

Just because there are a bunch of bigots & things don't seem to ever be fair, doesn't mean that you shouldn't resist what is being attempted to be done & just throw up your hands & quit as far too many have done. They're counting on that apathy to allow our rights to be systematically taken away, or to be dialed back to 1935.

And while folks are talking about terrorists, might I remind them that leading up to the year 2000, some Americans were building underground bunkers, purchasing powdered milk, dessicated meats & preparing for ''Armeggedon'' aka "The Great Race War", in which they would kill other AMERICANS & were training their little kids to do likewise.

I believe that 911 lulled some of us into believing that hundreds of years of bigotry, hatred & disrespect had suddenly gone away because of 911.

Some Americans have seemed to always needed someone to hate. 9/11 not withstanding, you've got to admit that we've always been a favorite & most convienient target.

And for the most bigoted, 9/11 never changed that & never will.

Just look at how the rhetoric has wratched up since President Obama took office & honestly, I don't know why we seem to be surprised by any of this. Truthfully, we can't change people's hearts, but we can damn sure stay on top of draconian laws which may prove to endanger us.

And if we don't worry about our own self-preservation, then why in the world would we expect anyone else to care?

We CAN do something to prevent most of this crap. That is, if we can stop watching "Housewives" & focusing on dumbed-down entertainment & other such bullshit long enough to actually get off of our collective asses & deal with things that really matter for our collective survival.

And that "WE" IS NOT necessarily a "BLACK THANG", as I believe that ALL poor & middle class are at risk & are extremely dipensable in the overall scheme of the picture. In the bigger picture, I don't believe that the powers-that-be love poor or middle-class whites than they do minorities. HOWEVER...they need all of those folks to believe that they & their way of life are in jeopardy & to continue to vote for them & their agendas. As soon as they have no need for them, they'll find out what many of us already know. But it will be too late.

It's just sad to see how many of us so willingly give up our power & collectively, we're more powerful than many of us seem to understand.

Which leads us back to Trayvon because until more people understand this, there'll always be another Trayvon Martin or Zimmerman waiting in the wings.

I read your entire post too [[which I always do.....). I had to practically beg folks to vote during the mid-term elections in 2010. The results of which can be seen in the Congress we have and in States like Wisconsin, Ohio and Michigan where severely conservative Governors were elected.

[Roberta75]

Juice, funny you should mention survivalists and underground bunkers, look at this... this one company has installed 1,100 of these puppies. at 80,000$ a shot.

Jillfoster, why did you delete your post the other night where you stopped blaming hoodies but blamed gold teeth and low pants? You even quoted Sean Hannity if I recall correctly.

I was ready to respond but you deleted your post before I had the chance to. I'm curious as to why you deleted it, as I was ready to respond to your, but it had vanished.

Roberta

[ms_m]

This could add more clarity to what I posted earlier. It's an op-ed piece but has interesting info.

There are two parts to this law, one deals with self-defense and the other is the infamous Stand Your Ground Law.

This is a bad law [[and probably unnecessary law) no matter how you look at it.

OP-ED CONTRIBUTOR
Florida’s Disastrous Self-Defense Law
By JOHN F. TIMONEY
Published: March 23, 2012

Manama, Bahrain

THE very public controversy surrounding the killing on Feb. 26 of Trayvon Martin, an unarmed 17-year-old, by a crime watch volunteer, George Zimmerman, was predictable.

In fact, I, along with other Florida chiefs of police, said so in a letter to the Legislature in 2005 when we opposed the passage of a law that not only enshrined the doctrine of “your home is your castle” but took this doctrine into the public square and added a new concept called “stand your ground.”

Use-of-force issues arose often during my 41-year policing career. In fact, officer-involved shootings were the No. 1 problem when I became Miami’s police chief in January 2003. But after we put in place new policies and training, officers went 20 months without discharging a single bullet at a person, while arrests increased over 30 percent.

Full Article:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/24/op...fense-law.html

But I pointed out at the time that even a police officer is held to account for every single bullet he or she discharges, so why should a private citizen be given more rights when it came to using deadly physical force?

excellent question?

I also asked the bill’s sponsor, State Representative Dennis K. Baxley, to point to any case in Florida where a homeowner had been indicted or arrested as a result of “defending his castle.” He could not come up with a single one.

so why was this law even needed?

[marv2]

I believe George Zimmerman's father is pulling strings for him.

[marv2]

It has been concluded that the screams heard on the 911 tapes are those of Trayvon Martin and not George Zimmerman. Zimmerman's brother, Robert lied about this during his interview with Piers Morgan.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...6pLid%3D148255

Before George Zimmerman shot Trayvon Martin on February 26, a 911 call recorded the voice of someone screaming. Whether that person was Martin or Zimmerman -- who police say claimed he was attacked by Martin before the fatal incident -- has been an open question since the calls were released by the Sanford, Florida police department. [[WARNING: Above audio is disturbing.)

The Orlando Sentinel consulted two voice experts to try to settle the debate, and both came to the same conclusion: The cries could not have come from George Zimmerman.

One expert, Tom Owen, used voice identification software to rule out Zimmerman as the source. From the Sentinel:

"I took all of the screams and put those together, and cut out everything else," Owen says.
The software compared that audio to Zimmerman's voice. It returned a 48 percent match. Owen said to reach a positive match with audio of this quality, he'd expect higher than 90 percent.

"As a result of that, you can say with reasonable scientific certainty that it's not Zimmerman," Owen says, stressing that he cannot confirm the voice as Trayvon's, because he didn't have a sample of the teen's voice to compare.


Another analyst came to a similar conclusion using different technology.

The voice analysis is the latest piece of information to cast doubt on the narrative, advanced by Zimmerman and his family, that the Neighborhood Watch volunteer was attacked by 17-year-old Travyon Martin. A police video this week showed no blood or bruises on Zimmerman in the aftermath of the incident, while Martin's funeral director said he saw no signs of a struggle on the teen's body.

[marv2]

Also, it has been reported that George Zimmerman's "friend", Joe Oliver was a paid spokesperson for the Zimmermans.

[jillfoster]

Also, it has been reported that George Zimmerman's "friend", Joe Oliver was a paid spokesperson for the Zimmermans.

Wow... this is like a damn soap opera, you hear conflicting report after conflicting report, it's enough to make the head spin. I also read that Spike Lee tweeted Zimmerman's address, but it turns out it was the WRONG Zimmerman, and was an elderly couple who have now had to leave their home. He needed to be damn sure of his facts before doing something like that. Roseanne Barr DID tweet the correct address of Zimmerman's parents, what's your opinion on that? Celebs and high profile people are like a bunch of hyenas around a bloody carcass with this story. It's pretty sad.

[ms_m]

Wow... this is like a damn soap opera, you hear conflicting report after conflicting report, it's enough to make the head spin.

...and the more conflicting reports to confuse the better JillFoster.

Stand Your Ground and the Defense Law turn George Zimmerman into a victim but the minute he got out of his car, with gun in hand, after being told he didn't need to do that, he became the aggressor.
It doesn't take a big leap to believe that defendants of Zimmerman will leak and say anything to obfuscate that point


Here's a rundown of the states with laws mirroring the one in Florida, where there's no duty to retreat in public places and where, in most cases, self-defense claims have some degree of immunity in court. [[The specifics of what kind of immunity, and when the burden of proof lies on the prosecution, vary from state to state.)
Many of the laws were originally advocated as a way to address domestic abuse cases — how could a battered wife retreat if she was attacked in her own home? Such legislation also has been recently pushed by the National Rifle Association and other gun-rights groups.
Click on the state to see its law.
Alabama
Arizona
Georgia
Idaho
Illinois [[The law does not include a duty to retreat, which courts have interpreted as a right to expansive self-defense.)
Indiana
Kansas
Kentucky
Louisiana
Michigan
Mississippi
Montana
Nevada
New Hampshire
North Carolina
Oklahoma
Oregon [[Also does not include a duty to retreat.)
South Carolina
South Dakota
Tennessee
Texas
Utah
Washington [[Also does not include a duty to retreat.)
West Virginia
Sources: Legal Community Against Violence; National District Attorney’s Association; Association of Prosecuting Attorneys.

Correction: This post has been corrected to include New Hampshire in the list of states with laws that are similar to Florida's.

http://www.propublica.org/article/th...-like-floridas


As a side note, I’m going to make an assumption, an assumption based on a fact.

The reason Jeb Bush was so quick to assert Stand Your Ground doesn’t apply to this case was because in 2005 when Jeb Bush was Governor of Florida, HE signed the law. [[with a member of the NRA by his side) If you’re thinking about continuing your political career…that’s not something you want hanging around your neck.

[marv2]

Wow... this is like a damn soap opera, you hear conflicting report after conflicting report, it's enough to make the head spin. I also read that Spike Lee tweeted Zimmerman's address, but it turns out it was the WRONG Zimmerman, and was an elderly couple who have now had to leave their home. He needed to be damn sure of his facts before doing something like that. Roseanne Barr DID tweet the correct address of Zimmerman's parents, what's your opinion on that? Celebs and high profile people are like a bunch of hyenas around a bloody carcass with this story. It's pretty sad.

I heard about the Spike Lee story. He has since apologized to the elderly couple and has made an offer to pay their hotel bill.

I believe Rosanne or anyone that would post the address of the Zimmerman's is wrong! In this crazy World we're living in, if something bad happened to them in this current environment, then Rosanne should be brought up on charges or something.

[Jerry Oz]

If they're going to tweet addresses, the only one I want is "good friend [[who happens to be black) Joe Oliver". With that being said, it is way out of line to do so, even if the information is public record [[found in the White Pages, county recorder's office, etc.). What is the anticipated consequence of doing so?

[ms_m]

What is the anticipated consequence of doing so?

Jerry Oz, be it addresses or anything else this is one of the questions that often disturb me.

People are too intent to think short term and rarely think about the long term consequences of what they do or say.

I realize I'm being redundant but if we don't start THINKING and thinking rationally and logically...all the blame game and pointing fingers at others will mean nothing....zip.....nada....a big fat zero.

[Jerry Oz]

The internet - and social media, in particular - has changed the world. When the end finally comes, its time will be much sooner than it probably would otherwise be due to the proliferation of verbal-diarrhea enablers like Twitter, Facebook, and YouTube.

Imagine: Somebody's going to get the formula for a doomsday bomb and put it on the web just for the heck of it and somebody else, perhaps for a cause or just because they can, will actually put the stupid thing together and announce it. Shortly thereafter - BOOM! In that case, I hope that I had the last post on the "Word Association" thread.

[ms_m]

LOL....I hear ya Jerry and I like the "verbal- diarrhea" comment...I will borrow that from time to time....LOL

I've seen good things come about as a result of social media as well as not so good. It boils down to the people that use it I guess.

So, before everything goes boom, what would you want your last word to be....LOL

[Jerry Oz]

"Jesus". But, that is a name, right?

[ms_m]

hahahahahahahaha


a word, is a word, is a word Jerry

[marv2]

I am wondering if the Defense for Mr. Zimmerman will claim that it is impossible for them to find an impartial jury anywhere in the U.S. because just about everyone has now heard quite a bit about this case/crime?

[ms_m]

Marv, when and if he ever gets arrested and charged, it'll be up to his lawyer to negotiate all of that but he has to be arrested and charged first.

Will he get a fair trial if and when that happens? Well the way I see it, he will not be the first person who has had major news coverage thrust on him before a trial but again, he has to be arrested and charged first.

If he ever faces a judge and jury, whatever happens, happens as far as I'm concerned. I'm sure others may or may not feel the same way but.....I may like the outcome, I may not but I believe he needs to stand trial and I'm definitely not feeling this man being free and still in possession of a gun, legally.

The irony of that, if someone sees him walking down the street KNOWING he's already killed someone and is still able to carry a gun....isn't is possible they would feel threatened?

[Jerry Oz]

I am wondering if the Defense for Mr. Zimmerman will claim that it is impossible for them to find an impartial jury anywhere in the U.S. because just about everyone has now heard quite a bit about this case/crime?

Good question, not just because of the notoriety of this case but because his camp has put out a lot of misinformation that will be brought up against him in court. I would love to be there when they delve into the depth of the relationship between him and Oliver.

[ms_m]

In this day and age it's not that unusual for high profile cases to receive a lot of media coverage. Jurist are charged to follow a pretty stringent set of parameters as a general rule. The system doesn't always work the way we want it to but for more than two centuries it's worked more often than not. Unfortunately it's worked because of some really effd up laws that apply but I'll stop beating that drum for now.

I'm not a lawyer and don't play one on TV but I personally wouldn't put a lot of emphasis on Oliver. Those three prior charges he has though I would definitive play up....to the hilt as a matter of fact. I'd try to keep this as tight as I could as not to give his defense team a lot of room to maneuver....but that's just me. shrugs

[marv2]

When he is arrested and charged. I would love to see Kim Worthy of Detroit prosecute the case. Talk about must see TV! LOL!!!! She is tough as nails and brilliant!

[Jerry Oz]

This is a long read, but interesting:

April 01, 2012 07:00 PM Van Jones: As a Black Parent, I Don't Know How To Protect My Sons

By karoli
On This Week, there was a panel discussion on the Trayvon Martin case, as there probably was on every Sunday show this week. It's somewhat ironic that most shows left the discussion to white men, who naturally understand what it feels like to walk down the street, unarmed, with some candy and iced tea and be looked at sideways like they're about to start a riot or rob the little old lady down the street. At least ABC saw fit to have Van Jones join their panel to talk about the Trayvon Martin case.
As it turned out, the discussion was less important than the illustration in many ways. Here's what George Will had to say:

WILL: Well, precisely. I mean, this is why we have what's called due process. We have institutions that are juries and grand juries and prosecutors who are supposed to look at the evidence and come up with the answer.
The root fact is, though, Mr. Jones, that about 150 black men are killed every week in this country. And 94 percent of them by other black men.
And this is -- this episode has been forced into a particular narrative to make it a white-on-black when "The New York Times" rather infamously now decided that Mr. Zimmerman was a white Hispanic, a locution [[ph) that was not -- was rare until then, and I think they abandoned by Friday.

Before I get to Mr. Jones' response to this, I want to highlight why this is exactly the problem. You have George Will walking completely past the facts in THIS case in order to justify the frightened white guy shooting the unarmed black guy because there are so many cases where blacks kill blacks.
There is no equivalent there. Yes, it's tragic that there are killings like that, but it misses the entire point of the Trayvon Martin case and makes a hollow, intellectually dishonest attempt to ignore the fact of racial profiling and racial judgments made every day by cops and citizens alike. It ignores the "otherness" factor, which Van Jones brought right back around to the forefront, thankfully.

JONES: Well, let me say, you know, this -- I think this hits pretty close to home. You know, I'm -- as an African-American parent, I have two boys. I think I'm going to have to go broke dressing them in tuxedos every day so they can walk down the streets to buy a Snickers bar or Skittles. I don't -- the standard just seems to keep up and up.
This kid was not in a gang. He was not gang involved. And yet somehow somebody saw him, and, you know, let's give Zimmerman the benefit of the doubt. Let's assume that he was trying to do something good.
Let's assume he was trying to be his brother's keeper, but for some reason, when he saw this young man, this child, he didn't see his brother, he saw the other. We've got to look at ourselves about this. Now, this does not take away from any other problems that you're talking about. But this is disturbing.
As a black parent, I don't know how to protect my sons. And I think that the other thing is that when you are a victim of a crime, if something happens to your child, the only upside is that the police are going to be on your side.
If your child dies at the hands of somebody who's armed -- until now, here I am as a black parent, I got to dress my kid in a tuxedo and if he gets shot, I don't know if the cops are on my side.

That's the essence of it right there. How many of us who are white parents can say with a straight face that as white parents, we don't know how to protect our sons? How many white parents get blamed for their kids being in trouble because they're wearing a hoodie? How many white parents sit down with their kids and have The Talk about how to behave if they're stopped by cops or an angry white person? How many?
All of this leads into a discussion about the Stand Your Ground law, where Ann Coulter demonstrates her ability to completely misunderstand the principles of justice which are thrown out of the window with this law. Here's what the law does: It bypasses due process, enables police not to do a proper investigation, and judges the dead guy guilty without benefit of a trial in a court of law.
Who was standing his ground in this case? The guy with the gun or the guy with the Skittles? Whether or not Trayvon Martin actually knocked Zimmerman down, he was the stalked guy, not the stalker. This is not in dispute by either party. But watch Coulter try to distort the whole thing:

COULTER: You have two completely different narratives of what happened, including one in which the hoodie was not relevant and certainly not the race.
But we know basically what the two narratives are, and in neither one is the "Stand Your Ground" law relevant, because in one case, you have Zimmerman, the white Hispanic, tracking down the suspicious looking kid, just because he's black, blowing him away. Well, there's no [[inaudible) -- the question is, did he have to retreat? No, he's the one doing the stalking.
And the second narrative, he's on the ground being beaten up by Trayvon Martin. There's no possibility of retreating when you're on the ground. That is -- all 50 states of the union have a law that if you need it for self-defense. This does not implicate the "Stand Your Ground Law."
[...]
COULTER: ...only is relevant if someone had an opportunity to retreat. And the law says you don't have to retreat. In neither narrative is retreating an option. It has nothing to do with the "Stand Your Ground" law. This is simple self defense on -- at least George Zimmerman's...

So in Ann Coulter's view, the Stand Your Ground law isn't even relevant here, yet she completely ignores the fact that George Zimmerman squats in an "undisclosed location" without facing the law only because of that law, despite the fact that in states without that law, he would have been taken into custody, a proper investigation would have been conducted, forensic evidence collected, and a grand jury or preliminary hearing convened to look for the truth.
Here, we have something altogether different. There was no proper investigation, Zimmerman was let go, both sides are spinning and trying the case in the press, and none of that changes the fact that there is a dead child and a man who is not facing justice.
None of that depends on how many times blacks kill blacks. It only depends on whether we're going to grapple with the race issues in this country, including racial profiling, in a meaningful way.

[ms_m]

There's no possibility of retreating when you're on the ground.

Zimmerman had all the time in the world to retreat...SIMPLY by NEVER getting out of his car!

[ms_m]

Jerry Oz, I can't think of many conversations I've had about race that turned out well. There have been a few, but not many and only because both sides were willing to be open minded, both sides were willing to listen objectively and both sides made an effort to rein in their emotions. That's not to say emotion wasn't involved but it didn't dominate the narrative. In those few instances where the conversation was a good one, both sides walked away with a better understanding of the views of the other. I've seen instances where it's happened with other people as well but on a wide scale, on a national scale, global scale.... I honestly don't believe things will ever come to that point.

People who are open and willing to listen and make an effort to see things through a lens different than their own...those are the people you have a better chance reaching but beyond that....it's like beating your head against a brick wall...do that enough times and all you do is end up with a headache....

[Jerry Oz]

You're correct. Someone asked me if I believed race relations go worse since President Obama was elected. I told them they had not gotten worse, in my opinion. It just allowed race baiters to cloak their agenda with that of the president's opponents and by siding with them, those opponents had to represent them in their policies and rhetoric. The vitriol we are hearing was already there but it wasn't kosher to put it out in the public discourse. Now, they cannot appeal to their base because of policy failure or fact, so they are appealing to them on emotion. Unfortunately, a lot of that emotion considers skin color a trait that affects behavior and the darker the skin, the "darker" the behavior.

[marv2]

Zimmerman is a liar. He should have never gotten out of his vehicle based just on the sight of Trayvon Martin walking down the street. I would not have immediately concluded this case was race related until I heard the 911 tape conversation Zimmerman had with the police dispatch and learning recently that he had called 911 4-5 separate times because seeing black males [[one was a 78 year old resident of the gated community) walking around. He made only one call on a white male and that was only at the request of the guy's wife because he was physically threatening her. George Zimmerman had a history of racial profiling black men.


This case as emotionally charged as it is, is really not that complicated at all! In fact, from what I know now, it is pretty much cut and dry. The self-defense defense is faulty and will never stand up. The "I was in fear for my life" is extremely weak as well. When did Zimmerman become fearful for his life? Was it when he saw Martin walking at a distance? Was it when he saw the bag of Skittles? or Was it when he had the kid down on the ground screaming for his life and shot him in his chest anyway? I think he became fearful once he learned that the American pulbic was not going to let this murder slide.

[marv2]

My response to those that bring up black on black crime [[which has nothing whatsoever to do with the Martin/Zimmerman case), is that the majority of those that commit murder in a "black on black crime" scenario.........are ARRESTED!

This repulsive view that Zimmerman killed an innocent, unarmed kid is not a big deal, because blacks have killed other blacks is totally irrational. Most puzzleling to me is why anyone other than George Zimmerman's immediate family and attorney try to defend his actions in this case. I really don't get that part.

[ms_m]

You're correct. Someone asked me if I believed race relations go worse since President Obama was elected. I told them they had not gotten worse, in my opinion. It just allowed race baiters to cloak their agenda with that of the president's opponents and by siding with them, those opponents had to represent them in their policies and rhetoric. The vitriol we are hearing was already there but it wasn't kosher to put it out in the public discourse. Now, they cannot appeal to their base because of policy failure or fact, so they are appealing to them on emotion. Unfortunately, a lot of that emotion considers skin color a trait that affects behavior and the darker the skin, the "darker" the behavior.

Amen and pass the cornbread.

[stephanie]

Hey Marv and everyone else,
His father [[Zimmerman) being a judge has been in my mind for along time now. I think the one way we can end this case a lot quicker is to see if there are any phone records of thefather of Zimmerman talking to anyone and what was said. If there is ANY evidence of a payoff its all over. I have never in my life seen a man commit murder and not being held AND given the gun back. His dad had to have something to do with this.