Marvin Gaye's "Too Busy Thinking About My Baby" - two single mixes?

[Sotosound]

Something that I love about the single mix of "Too Busy Thinking About My Baby" as released on UK Tamla Motown are the seriously up front strings. After the first crash of symbols and bass, we can here high pitched "bowed" violins and also pizzicato strings right up front. All through the track, the strings drive the production and add a great sense of joy - well to me anyway.

As it turns out, this is also the mix that the USA got, as per the following link: -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdkQRw3kXeE

So, how come the version that appears on "TCMS" and "The Master" is different? It's slower and the strings are well back in the mix. In fact, all of the energy seems to have been sapped away in this mix.

Anyone know anything about this?

[bradburger]

Interesting!

I don't have the volume of 'TCMS' that this is on, but do have 'The Master' box set.

I always assumed this had the 45 mix, but listening to it again, it does indeed sound a different mix to the 45 in the YT link you posted.

I did a quick Google, and found a picture of a white Tamla promo of T-54181, and the DM number seems to indicate that this is the same mix as the commercial version:- DM-N-S-N 573M07 - mixed by Norman Whitfield, so it's not that one.

All other images of the commercial label have the same DM number, and DFTMC doesn't list an alternate pressing, and I don't recall Reg Bartlette's book listing two pressings either, so I can only assume they got the wrong mix for 'TCMS' & 'The Master'.

I did initially think that it could have been the Mono L.P mix, but according to DFTMC, M.P.G. was only issued in stereo.

Cheers

Paul

[Sotosound]

Interesting!

I don't have the volume of 'TCMS' that this is on, but do have 'The Master' box set.

I always assumed this had the 45 mix, but listening to it again, it does indeed sound a different mix to the 45 in the YT link you posted.

I did a quick Google, and found a picture of a white Tamla promo of T-54181, and the DM number seems to indicate that this is the same mix as the commercial version:- DM-N-S-N 573M07 - mixed by Norman Whitfield, so it's not that one.

All other images of the commercial label have the same DM number, and DFTMC doesn't list an alternate pressing, and I don't recall Reg Bartlette's book listing two pressings either, so I can only assume they got the wrong mix for 'TCMS' & 'The Master'.

I did initially think that it could have been the Mono L.P mix, but according to DFTMC, M.P.G. was only issued in stereo.

Cheers

Paul

Phew! At least it's not just me!

Many thanks for this.

The problem now is that I've been checking out the B-side - "Wherever I Lay My Hat" and have found three different mixes of that: -

1) The UK Tamla Motown B-side. The drums [[Marvin?) are up front with Marvin's vocals and the female backing vocals [[The Vandellas?) well balanced in the mix. The brass is set well back in this mix.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsSBRWcmpxI


2) The TCMS version, also found on a Tamla Motown "Early Years" vinyl album. On this version the drums aren't so up front. Instead, Marvin and the brass are up front, but the girls are even more up front than that. I think the following link leads to this the mix.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ml86ZqL2EtE


3) The "The Master" version. On this version, the drums are up front, but Marvin's vocals are bathed in reverb.

Since EMI in the UK didn't always release the same mixes as in the USA, I can't be certain which version ended up on the B-side of the US Tamla single, although the following YouTube link would suggest that it could be "The Master" version.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7vsf7aRSR0


I'm all mixed up now!

[Sugarchilehoneybaby]

This is interesting!

So, is the version that's on the 1990 Marvin box set the correct single mix? Is it the US mix? This set boasts that it has all the original 60s singles masters, with the exception of an alternate mix of "Pride and Joy".

I love the endless mystery surrounding Motown's many many mixes!

[theboyfromxtown]

I did initially think that it could have been the Mono L.P mix, but according to DFTMC, M.P.G. was only issued in stereo.

That isn't correct Paul. Standard mono LP versions went up to about TML 11139 and that includes MPG on TML 11119. I have them.

..the 1990 Marvin box set ....boasts that it has all the original 60s singles masters, with the exception of an alternate mix of "Pride and Joy".

That isn't correct either, my friend! Try "That's The Way Love Is" and listen to the first 15 seconds.

Just like "Too Busy Thinking About My Baby", the US and UK versions are different. And as is usually the case, America got a newer and latest version as a 45.

[uptight]

Between the UK & US 45s, I hear a difference in vocal takes at the very end, "La la la la la lue...!" Cool.

[uptight]

That third YouTube link for "Wherever I Lay My Hat" doesn't quite sound like reverb in the record as you had described. It seems like the camcorder mic picking up the room echo instead. I wish they had recorded the turntable with a direct input to the camera.

[Sotosound]

That third YouTube link for "Wherever I Lay My Hat" doesn't quite sound like reverb in the record as you had described. It seems like the camcorder mic picking up the room echo instead. I wish they had recorded the turntable with a direct input to the camera.

Agreed. I tried to mentally tune out the room echo but found it hard to do so.

[Sotosound]

That isn't correct Paul. Standard mono LP versions went up to about TML 11139 and that includes MPG on TML 11119. I have them.

That isn't correct either, my friend! Try "That's The Way Love Is" and listen to the first 15 seconds.

Just like "Too Busy Thinking About My Baby", the US and UK versions are different. And as is usually the case, America got a newer and latest version as a 45.

Is the mono MPG a fold-down, however? I have a UK mono Tamla Motown copy of "Puzzle People" by The Temptations, and that is definitely a fold-down. Similarly, from my own collection, Motown Chartbusters Vol 3 was a fold-down, as was Stevie Wonder's Greatest Hits Vol 1.

I suspect that EMI had run out of enthusiasm for too much dedicated mono mastering by 1969.

My point is actually that the UK and US mono single "Too Busy's" are the same. It's the subsequent CD version that's different.

Regarding "Hat", is it possible that this was remixed for release in 1969 as the "Too Busy" B-side, and that a couple of attempts were made at remixing it, leading to what I've just uncovered?

[bradburger]

That isn't correct Paul. Standard mono LP versions went up to about TML 11139 and that includes MPG on TML 11119. I have them.

Sorry John, I meant the US version! It only seems to have been issued in stereo there.

Just like "Too Busy Thinking About My Baby", the US and UK versions are different. And as is usually the case, America got a newer and latest version as a 45.

But Sotosound says they are the same mix!

And the mix on 'The Master' is definitely different to the one on T-54181 in the YT link.

Regarding "Hat", is it possible that this was remixed for release in 1969 as the "Too Busy" B-side, and that a couple of attempts were made at remixing it, leading to what I've just uncovered?

That's quite possible I suppose.

Didn't the UK 'That Stubborn Kinda Fellow/How Sweet It Is To Be Loved By You' two-fer issued a few years back use the Mono L.P master for the former? It would be interesting to hear what the mix of WILMH sounds like on that.

[EDIT] It appears it did: - http://www.amazon.co.uk/Stubborn-Kin...=1TR2XXWJP88WG

Cheers

Paul

[theboyfromxtown]

I can't play vinyl at present so I am going by the link posted for "Too Busy Thinking About My Baby"

If this is the US Tamla copy...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdkQRw3kXeE

Listen to those strings at about 7/8 seconds.

Now this listen to a [[supposedly) TMG version
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hE4d...eature=related

Those strings at 20 seconds are way way down. The bottom version fades earlier too.

I say " a [[supposedly) TMG" because my TMG 705 is mono but that Youtube link plays a stereo version.

[Sotosound]

I can't play vinyl at present so I am going by the link posted for "Too Busy Thinking About My Baby"

If this is the US Tamla copy...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdkQRw3kXeE

Listen to those strings at about 7/8 seconds.

Now this listen to a [[supposedly) TMG version
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hE4d...eature=related

Those strings at 20 seconds are way way down. The bottom version fades earlier too.

I say " a [[supposedly) TMG" because my TMG 705 is mono but that Youtube link plays a stereo version.

Yeah. That link doesn't point to the piece of vinyl shown on-screen.

This link, however, does.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzTPZaDr6Cs

As per the US vinly "Hat" link, there's a lot of room echo on this version, but filter that out in your mind and you'll hear the US single mix shining through.

[theboyfromxtown]

Sotosound. I'll come back to you. I've spent too much time already on SDF this morning. I have to do some work!

[rovereab]

I have just noticed another difference between the TBTAMB single mix and the version on The Master....

At track time 2:40 on The Master mix the drums are faded out whereas on the single mix they remain present.

Eamonn

[Sotosound]

I have just noticed another difference between the TBTAMB single mix and the version on The Master....

At track time 2:40 on The Master mix the drums are faded out whereas on the single mix they remain present.

Eamonn

Well spotted. I hadn't clocked that difference.

I've just listened to it myself - and the drums disappear for about five seconds before reappearing again at around 2:45.

That sounds like an accident with a slider on the mixing desk and would be reason enough for that mix never to see the light of day - which it probably didn't until someone realised that there was a market for mono Motown on CD and it got unearthed by accident.

So... where is the master for the real single mix? Lost?