Nothing But Heartaches Chart Run Analysis

[Glenpwood]

I was relistening to the podcast Midnight Johnny was so nice to make available celebrating More Hits Deluxe with Andy Skurow and George Solomon this morning. The discussion of why Nothing But Heartaches didn't go to number one caught my ear and Andy made some wonderful points of the fierce competition on the charts at that moment and if it had come a little sooner or a little later it might have gone higher. He also made a point of referencing he would do some further research on it but since I'd rather him have some free time to go digging through the vaults for the next Supremes deluxe edition I thought I would see if I could come up with anything else of value to add since I have the book of Billboard weekly Hot 100 charts of the sixties.


First a list of the active Motown and associated labels currently charting the week Nothing But Heartached debuted, 7-31-1965.


I Can't Help Myself - Four Tops #6 [[slowly desecending after hitting #1 for 2 non consecutive weeks)
Pretty Little Baby - Marvin Gaye #30 [[climbing in it's fourth week on the chart) TAMLA
I'll Always Love You - The Spinners #50 [[climbing in it's third week on the chart)
Tracks Of My Tears - The Miracles #51 [[climbing in it's third week on the chart) TAMLA
Since I Lost My Baby - The Temptations #53 [[climbing in it's second week on the chart) GORDY
It's The Same Old Song - Four Tops #54 [[New Entry, Top Hot 100 debut of the week)
Shake & Fingerpop - Jr. Walker & The All Stars #81 [[New Entry, Third Highest Debut of the week) SOUL
Nothing But Heartaches - The Supremes #88 [[New Entry, Fifth highest debut of the week)

The Four Tops were riding high off the back off a still charting smash number one [[ICHM). The Supremes had also hit the summit last time out with "Back In My Arms Again," which left the chart three weeks before). In chart terms of longevity of their previous releases, The Tops had a longer run at the top [[2 wks vs. 1) in the top 10 [[10 wks vs. 5) and top 40 [[13 wks vs. 10) than the girls. Jr. Walker & The All Stars new single was following up the #36 Pop, #10 R&B "Do The Boomerang" which had left the chart 2 weeks prior.

In week two, all three records surged with Heartaches jumping over all the other higher debuts the prior week except ITSOS to land at #47. The Four Tops explode to #17, overtaking all the other Motown releases except I Can't Help Myself, still slowly dropping at #9. Week three NBH rises another twenty spots to #27, overtaking The Temptations and The Miracles but still twenty places behind ITSOS, now sitting pretty at #7. Also, occuring that week, The Beatles "Help" skyrockets in it's second week on the chart to #14, making it the only record younger than Heartaches to chart above it. In week four It's The Same Old Song holds at #7 while Help and the Beach Boys "California Girls" jump over it into the top 5. NBH is still starred, rising nine slots to #18 but competition gets tighter with the We Five's "You Were On My Mind," Bob Dylan's "Like A Rolling Stone" James Brown's "Papa's Got A Brand New Bag," and Mel Carter's "Hold Me Thrill Me Kiss Me" also bubbling under the top 10 with it. The next week the Tops rise [[but unstarred) to #5 thanks to Gary Lewis beginning to fall with Save Your Heart For Me. Dylan, Brown, and Carter all ascend into the lower half of the top 10 while the We Five and Supremes each rise five starred spots again to #12 and #13 respectively. Week 6 turns out to be the peak week for all three Motown singles that debuted together. The Tops held at #5 for a final week. Jr. Walker, having made slow but steady moves each week peaks at #29 with "Shake & Fingerpop." The Supremes "Nothing But Heartaches" makes it final rise up two slots to #11 and in most weeks would have grabbed one of the two top ten slots that opened up but loses out to the still strong We Five who jump to number seven and Barry McGuire's future number one "Eve Of Destruction" that leapfrogs over it in it's third chart week.

So the Top 10 in full that week of 9-4-1965 was...
#1 Help
#2 Like A Rolling Stone
#3 California Girls
#4 Unchained Melody
#5 It's The Same Old Song
#6 I Got You Babe
#7 You Were On My Mind
#8 Papa's Got A Brand New Bag
#9 Eve Of Destruction
#10 Hold Me Thrill Me Kiss Me

Looks like an hour of classic oldies programming doesn't it? Except for Barry McGuire who's sole hit has pretty much disappeared from being in the gold category of any radio station library these days. So Andy has hit the nail on the head when he points out the competition was so fierce at that moment. If it had come a week before or Barry McGuire had come a week later things might have been different. Nothing But Heartaches was a victim of chart logjam rather than being a poor production or wrong single choice. This level of competition at that moment helps explain why classics like Since I Lost My Baby and Tracks Of My Tears stalled in the Top 20 at that same time.

Your thoughts?

[johnjeb]

Nice recap of the chart action Glenpwood. I must admit that at the time of its' release I didn't think NBH was all that special [[nor did I think Baby Love or Stop! were that great, either). I thought it was too derivative of BIMAA. So I wasn't surprised it stalled, although I was very disappointed their #1 streak was broken.

Here are the Billboard chart positions for their hit singles for the 18 month period - bold numbers refer to starred positions indicating "greatest proportionate upward progress".

Where Did Our Love Go - 14 weeks July11, 1964 - October 10, 1964
77, 38, 18, 5, 3, 2, 1, 1, 2, 2, 3, 7, 19, 38

Baby Love - 13 weeks October 3, 1964 - December 26, 1964
51, 26, 12, 6, 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 5, 8, 15, 33

Come See About Me - 14 weeks November 14, 1964 - February 13, 1965
66, 31, 13, 8, 4, 1, 2, 2, 2, 1, 5, 8, 12, 23

Stop! In The Name Of Love - 12 weeks February 20, 1965 - May 8, 1965
80, 41, 13, 3, 2, 1, 1, 2, 2, 5, 10, 30

Back In My Arms Again - 11 weeks May 1, 1965 - July 10, 1965
68, 38, 15, 6, 3, 3, 1, 5, 11, 15, 37

2 weeks no charted singles July 17, 1965 - July 24, 1965

Nothing But Heartaches - 9 weeks July 31, 1965 - September 25, 1965
88, 47, 27, 18, 13, 11, 16, 23, 39

4 weeks no charted singles October 2, 1965 - October 23, 1965

I Hear A Symphony - 10 weeks October 30, 1965 - January 1, 1966
[[101), 39, 12, 5, 1, 1, 2, 2, 5, 20, 30

1 week no charted singles January 8, 1966

My World Is Empty Without You - 11 weeks January 15, 1966 - March 26, 1966
78, 46, 26, 13, 8, 5, 5, 10, 16, 30, 49

[redlabs]

Johnjeb,thanks for this info. very informative.where did u get this , as i would like to look up the rest of the singles? many thanks

[alcestermotown]

I use the following link in my searches for old records and chart data, can't beat the real source. Although, if you want your info in a condensed form Joel Whitburn's books are probably the books you need.

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=V..._issues_anchor

[RossHolloway]

I rarely focus on NBH peaking at #11, but I do think it is a greatly underappreciated song by the Supremes and HDH. The music, the lyrics and Diana's lead vocals and Mary and Florence's call and response delivery makes for a classic Motown song. I think its unfortunate that people get more caught up on the fact that it made it only to #11 on the Billboard charts than the merits of the song. There are plenty of great, and I mean GREAT Motown songs that did not make the Top 10. The Miracles classic song The Tracks of My Tears peaked at #16 on the charts, but it's probably one of their most enduring songs. Or Ain't No Mountain High Enough by Marvin and Tammi only reached #19, but it's played today and even remembered like it peaked at #1.

[alcestermotown]

Just noticed you all are SeniorMembers, I'm a junior member and I'm 65, how old must you be.

[RossHolloway]

Just noticed you all are SeniorMembers, I'm a junior member and I'm 65, how old must you be.

It's all about the number of post that you make on the forum!

[midnight johnny]

I was relistening to the podcast Midnight Johnny was so nice to make available celebrating More Hits Deluxe with Andy Skurow and George Solomon this morning. The discussion of why Nothing But Heartaches didn't go to number one caught my ear and Andy made some wonderful points of the fierce competition on the charts at that moment and if it had come a little sooner or a little later it might have gone higher. He also made a point of referencing he would do some further research on it but since I'd rather him have some free time to go digging through the vaults for the next Supremes deluxe edition I thought I would see if I could come up with anything else of value to add since I have the book of Billboard weekly Hot 100 charts of the sixties.


First a list of the active Motown and associated labels currently charting the week Nothing But Heartached debuted, 7-31-1965.


I Can't Help Myself - Four Tops #6 [[slowly desecending after hitting #1 for 2 non consecutive weeks)
Pretty Little Baby - Marvin Gaye #30 [[climbing in it's fourth week on the chart) TAMLA
I'll Always Love You - The Spinners #50 [[climbing in it's third week on the chart)
Tracks Of My Tears - The Miracles #51 [[climbing in it's third week on the chart) TAMLA
Since I Lost My Baby - The Temptations #53 [[climbing in it's second week on the chart) GORDY
It's The Same Old Song - Four Tops #54 [[New Entry, Top Hot 100 debut of the week)
Shake & Fingerpop - Jr. Walker & The All Stars #81 [[New Entry, Third Highest Debut of the week) SOUL
Nothing But Heartaches - The Supremes #88 [[New Entry, Fifth highest debut of the week)

The Four Tops were riding high off the back off a still charting smash number one [[ICHM). The Supremes had also hit the summit last time out with "Back In My Arms Again," which left the chart three weeks before). In chart terms of longevity of their previous releases, The Tops had a longer run at the top [[2 wks vs. 1) in the top 10 [[10 wks vs. 5) and top 40 [[13 wks vs. 10) than the girls. Jr. Walker & The All Stars new single was following up the #36 Pop, #10 R&B "Do The Boomerang" which had left the chart 2 weeks prior.

In week two, all three records surged with Heartaches jumping over all the other higher debuts the prior week except ITSOS to land at #47. The Four Tops explode to #17, overtaking all the other Motown releases except I Can't Help Myself, still slowly dropping at #9. Week three NBH rises another twenty spots to #27, overtaking The Temptations and The Miracles but still twenty places behind ITSOS, now sitting pretty at #7. Also, occuring that week, The Beatles "Help" skyrockets in it's second week on the chart to #14, making it the only record younger than Heartaches to chart above it. In week four It's The Same Old Song holds at #7 while Help and the Beach Boys "California Girls" jump over it into the top 5. NBH is still starred, rising nine slots to #18 but competition gets tighter with the We Five's "You Were On My Mind," Bob Dylan's "Like A Rolling Stone" James Brown's "Papa's Got A Brand New Bag," and Mel Carter's "Hold Me Thrill Me Kiss Me" also bubbling under the top 10 with it. The next week the Tops rise [[but unstarred) to #5 thanks to Gary Lewis beginning to fall with Save Your Heart For Me. Dylan, Brown, and Carter all ascend into the lower half of the top 10 while the We Five and Supremes each rise five starred spots again to #12 and #13 respectively. Week 6 turns out to be the peak week for all three Motown singles that debuted together. The Tops held at #5 for a final week. Jr. Walker, having made slow but steady moves each week peaks at #29 with "Shake & Fingerpop." The Supremes "Nothing But Heartaches" makes it final rise up two slots to #11 and in most weeks would have grabbed one of the two top ten slots that opened up but loses out to the still strong We Five who jump to number seven and Barry McGuire's future number one "Eve Of Destruction" that leapfrogs over it in it's third chart week.

So the Top 10 in full that week of 9-4-1965 was...
#1 Help
#2 Like A Rolling Stone
#3 California Girls
#4 Unchained Melody
#5 It's The Same Old Song
#6 I Got You Babe
#7 You Were On My Mind
#8 Papa's Got A Brand New Bag
#9 Eve Of Destruction
#10 Hold Me Thrill Me Kiss Me

Looks like an hour of classic oldies programming doesn't it? Except for Barry McGuire who's sole hit has pretty much disappeared from being in the gold category of any radio station library these days. So Andy has hit the nail on the head when he points out the competition was so fierce at that moment. If it had come a week before or Barry McGuire had come a week later things might have been different. Nothing But Heartaches was a victim of chart logjam rather than being a poor production or wrong single choice. This level of competition at that moment helps explain why classics like Since I Lost My Baby and Tracks Of My Tears stalled in the Top 20 at that same time.

Your thoughts?

Glen...after reading all that amazing information, every thought I had flew out the window. Thanks for your work!
John

[midnight johnny]

Nice recap of the chart action Glenpwood. I must admit that at the time of its' release I didn't think NBH was all that special [[nor did I think Baby Love or Stop! were that great, either). I thought it was too derivative of BIMAA. So I wasn't surprised it stalled, although I was very disappointed their #1 streak was broken.

Here are the Billboard chart positions for their hit singles for the 18 month period - bold numbers refer to starred positions indicating "greatest proportionate upward progress".

Where Did Our Love Go - 14 weeks July11, 1964 - October 10, 1964
77, 38, 18, 5, 3, 2, 1, 1, 2, 2, 3, 7, 19, 38

Baby Love - 13 weeks October 3, 1964 - December 26, 1964
51, 26, 12, 6, 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 5, 8, 15, 33

Come See About Me - 14 weeks November 14, 1964 - February 13, 1965
66, 31, 13, 8, 4, 1, 2, 2, 2, 1, 5, 8, 12, 23

Stop! In The Name Of Love - 12 weeks February 20, 1965 - May 8, 1965
80, 41, 13, 3, 2, 1, 1, 2, 2, 5, 10, 30

Back In My Arms Again - 11 weeks May 1, 1965 - July 10, 1965
68, 38, 15, 6, 3, 3, 1, 5, 11, 15, 37

2 weeks no charted singles July 17, 1965 - July 24, 1965

Nothing But Heartaches - 9 weeks July 31, 1965 - September 25, 1965
88, 47, 27, 18, 13, 11, 16, 23, 39

4 weeks no charted singles October 2, 1965 - October 23, 1965

I Hear A Symphony - 10 weeks October 30, 1965 - January 1, 1966
[[101), 39, 12, 5, 1, 1, 2, 2, 5, 20, 30

1 week no charted singles January 8, 1966

My World Is Empty Without You - 11 weeks January 15, 1966 - March 26, 1966
78, 46, 26, 13, 8, 5, 5, 10, 16, 30, 49

Thank you, too, John!
John

[Glenpwood]

Thanks John, I might do the other top 10's that didn't go all the way if I get some down time this weekend.....

[johnjeb]

Johnjeb,thanks for this info. very informative.where did u get this , as i would like to look up the rest of the singles? many thanks

redlabs, I got them out of Joel Whitburn's Billboard Hot 100 Chart books.

I've got The Supremes and Diana Ross done from Your Heart Belongs To Me through Nathan Jones.

I started it when I was reading the Stoned Love thread a couple of months ago. The discussion was why some songs spent many weeks on the charts but reach the Top 10, while others hit #1 but spent fewer weeks on the charts. I never posted any chart data to that thread due to other distractions.

Maybe I'll do more this weekend seeing I'll apparently be snowed-in on Saturday.

[Glenpwood]

If you want the weeklychart runs for Diana or The Supremes singles and albums in the USA and UK visit UKMix at the link below.....

http://www.ukmix.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=13100

Pull the page down to find the rest of the alphabet after it initially cuts off. Virtually all major artists are covered there......

[johnjeb]

If you want the weeklychart runs for Diana or The Supremes singles and albums in the USA and UK visit UKMix at the link below.....

http://www.ukmix.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=13100

Pull the page down to find the rest of the alphabet after it initially cuts off. Virtually all major artists are covered there......

Thanks for posting that site. I've been trying to find a site like that.

What I would also like to see is a synopsis of all the Motown songs on the charts at the same time. That way we could see which Motown songs were competing against each other. If I can't find something online then it will be another project for a another time.