song writing teams

[thisoldheart]

a couple of questions, experts:

is there a clear division of labor between ashford and simpson. does one primarily write the lyrics and the other the melody? wanna tell me who does what?

ivy jo hunter writes with so many people, but i have the felling he's the melody man. am i right?

this one's too obvious, but norman whitfield writes the melodies and either eddie holland or barrett strong handle the lyrics, right?

i just went from a to z in don't forget the motor city handy reference jotting down every h/d/h song, but the three groups above had me curious. your info will be greatly appreciated?

thanks!

[Motown4Ever518]

a couple of questions, experts:

is there a clear division of labor between ashford andSimpson. does one primarily write the lyrics and the other the melody? wanna tell me who does what?

ivy Jo hunter writes with so many people, but I have the felling he's the melody man. am I right?

this one's too obvious, but norman whitfield writes the melodies and either eddie holland or barrett strong handle the lyrics, right?

i just went from a to z in don't forget the motor city handy reference jotting down every h/d/h song, but the three groups above had me curious. you info will be greatly appreciated?

thanks!

I for one am far more interested in the songwriting end of things than most and appreciate the question. My understanding is that the late great Nick Ashford R.I.P. was a very earthy, sensitive down to earth cat who wore his feelings on his sleeve. Where do I get this from, I would say his choice of clothing. Whenever I look at a picture of him, no matter the time frame it wasn't what I was wearing at the time. Ms. Simpson as a native New Yorker has a sophisticated, association with varied sources, and she is an excellent pianist,if Earl Van Dyke says you got game, you've got game. She played piano on "I Am Changing" with my 13 year old daughter at an open mike night at her and Nicks retaurant in Manhattan recently with a sensitiveity that when I watch the video on you-tube still tears me up.

As far as Ivy Joe being a melody man, I would agree, though what little I have heard of him as a singer makes me want to hear more of him as a singer.

And lastly I understand you to be correct that Norman Whitfield was the melody man. I base this on my understanding that within HDH, in the division of labor, lyrics were Eddies main job. And I read somewhere that when Eddie stopped writing with Norman about 67-ish, he is said to have approached Barrett strong to write with him and Norman guaranteed that the collaboration would yield Barrett an annual income of 100K a year in late 1960's dollars.

[thisoldheart]

I for one am far more interested in the songwriting end of things than most and appreciate the question. My understanding is that the late great Nick Ashford R.I.P. was a very earthy, sensitive down to earth cat who wore his feelings on his sleeve. Where do I get this from, I would say his choice of clothing. Whenever I look at a picture of him, no matter the time frame it wasn't what I was wearing at the time. Ms. Simpson as a native New Yorker has a sophisticated, association with varied sources, and she is an excellent pianist,if Earl Van Dyke says you got game, you've got game. She played piano on "I Am Changing" with my 13 year old daughter at an open mike night at her and Nicks retaurant in Manhattan recently with a sensitiveity that when I watch the video on you-tube still tears me up.

As far as Ivy Joe being a melody man, I would agree, though what little I have heard of him as a singer makes me want to hear more of him as a singer

so motownforever, who are you saying wrote the melody lines, val or nick? i'm just having fun guessing, but would bet ms. simpson.

[Motown4Ever518]

My sense is that it was Ms. Simpson. Because she was/is a singer, I just feel that she could noodle at the piano and come up with something to which they both agreed that, hey, "we have something here". I recommend getting a copy of the songs they wrote early on with Josie Amsted for the Scepter/Wand years to support that they rarely wrote a "bad song". I also envision because I sense that they truly appeared to be wonderful human beings, that if there was a disagreement Valerie was talented enough to alter the melody to fit the words, or as a singer could make a case for changing the lyrics because while looking good on paper, 'didn't sing well'.

[thisoldheart]

is micky stevenson a lyricist?

[rovereab]

This is an excellent question and one which I have considered. I have also wondered if the relative position of the song writing team's names have any significance, e.g. Ashford-Simpson and Holland-Dozier-Holland.

Thanks.

[thisoldheart]

well i do know eddie holland was the lyricist of the group. he often complained that the other two could write melodies faster than he could add the lyrics. he has also said they got to spend time in the studio when he was home writing 24/7. that said i have seen footage of him acting like a producer in the studio, though he never is listed as a producer. i often wondered if that meant he made less money than his co-writers. how is a producer paid?

[keith_hughes]

thisoldheart, many of the questions you raise are answered by the man himself in the booklet for the Ace Eddie Holland 2-CD set, due at the end of January. As for his "producing": as lyric writer, his job was to coach the artist in rehearsal and in the studio, but that's very different to producing: a producer typically stands behind the glass, but Eddie was out on the floor. And as for the remuneration - "production" is linked to a specific recording, so can only attract remuneration when that recording is played. But a writing credit is attached to a song whoever records it, and Motown were great recyclers of songs. So there is potentially much more money for a writer than for a producer.

[thisoldheart]

thanks keith! i am anxiously awaiting the eddie holland release ... still wondering if micky stevenson was a lyricist. what do you know about that?

[soulwally]

Val Simpson primarily did the music; Nick the lyrics. Which is not how you think a male-female team might work. But it was the same with Goffin and King; HE was the lyricist and she the melody maker.

Whitfield did some solo compositions [[the Supremes' He Means The World To Me springs to mind, and also some of his stuff with the Distants pre-Motown), and after losing Strong in the Seventies, many more solo compositions. I always regard Norman as a rhythm man, which in turn would have led to the melodies which had Holland and Strong [[and Penzabene's) lyrics on top of them.

I think Stevenson must have done a bit of everything; he was largely responsible for contracting the Funk Bros when the studio was in its infancy, and in his role as A&R head before he left Motown he would have come into contact with many writers. Perhaps it was his suggestions that got him writing credits, more than anything else.

As we know, Hunter was a busy, busy producer-writer, and I guess he did something of everything.