No Supremes On Stop in the Name of Love etc.

[Constantin]

Away from the Supremes for a second, I remember reading an interview with Dennis Edwards in 1976 for the LP 'The Temptations do The Temptations' where he said there were a lot of session singers on that album. Some days he'd go into the studio with other singers and he'd be the only Temptation there! It's still one of my favourite albums tho...

One of the worse: "We Are Family" is just Kathy Sledge with Chic vocalists. Her sisters are nowhere to be found. Nevertheless it's a great record.

Actually the vast majority of buyers doesn't care about who is singing :-)

[marv2]

Showbiz stories eh? I remember the very first time I met Mary properly and we had time to sit and chat. I asked 'Do you remember the reflections recording session?' and she said 'Of course!' Hmmm... but after reading all this fascinating stuff I wonder if she actually was there. You've got to give it to those Andate ladies - they did a bloody good job! Must admit I did question many of the album tracks after Flo had gone. It just didn't sound the same but hey, did it really matter? I mean, there's lots of bands/groups still out there using 'extra talent' to pad out their product. Away from the Supremes for a second, I remember reading an interview with Dennis Edwards in 1976 for the LP 'The Temptations do The Temptations' where he said there were a lot of session singers on that album. Some days he'd go into the studio with other singers and he'd be the only Temptation there! It's still one of my favourite albums tho...

Bulls% hit about "if she was there..." You can hear her right on the record. You can hear her even more clearly on that #1's Collection that came out several years ago. She and Florence are singing on most all of the important records.

[marv2]

Brad, they had the damned multitracks when they compiled the complete motown singles! The problem here is that TWO OFFICIAL Motown releases are giving contradictory information, when they were researched and released less than 5 years from each other. Obviously, one of them is wrong. And what do the multi track tapes tell, then? Do they tell that some people don't know what Flo's voice sounds like?

Thank you also Jill! The bottomline is Mary, Diane and Flo and perhaps one additional vocalist is on this record. This thread really didn't need to happen because I've always knew and recognized the three Original Supremes voices .

[captainjames]

Thanks Andy
That puts it in perspective for me. It is what it is !!!

The Supremes story is a very complicated one, and when discussing who sang on which records, it is sensitive not only to the Supremes, but to the Andantes, and to the fans. What we report may be loved by many, and in some situations, may not be popular, but it is always important that we tell the truth. Our motivation is that of preserving the Supremes legacy, not diminishing it. If we report a kind word about one Supreme, Mary, Flo or Diana, it is often misconstrued as a slap to the other two ladies. On any project I work on, I can assure you that this is not, and will never be the case. I support them, and I love them, both professionally and personally.

There’s a recent thread about what songs are Tammi Terrell, and what songs are Valerie Simpson. The thread is long and the argument is interesting, but the truth can be found in the research, and in listening to the isolated vocals on the multi-tracks. However, the answers we could give, in the Tammi scenario, in the Supremes scenario, or in other artists scenarios may not be what fans want to hear. I’d rather tell the truth, for myself, and for an accurate history, than to be popular. And at the end of the day, all I can do is present the facts, even if they are conflicting, and if there is no clear answer, the listener can be the judge. Sometimes we have an answer, sometimes we don’t.

The Supremes/Andantes situation does exist, but it has absolutely been blown out of proportion. The Supremes background vocals by Mary and Flo, are on most of their records leading up to Flo’s departure. But there are some they are not on, pure and simple. Mary Wilson has acknowledged this, Florence Ballard in interviews acknowledged this, Diana Ross has acknowledged this.

As one learns the Supremes voices, it becomes more clear when you hear them. Once you learn the Andantes voices, the picture comes right into focus. And if you’re lucky enough to see the Motown session logs and tape cards, or get to hear the isolated vocals, there becomes no doubt when you hear the Supremes, the Andantes, or both.

When I am asked, I often give fans one example to listen to. There are many, but here is my favorite one. Listen to the Supremes version of “Fancy Passes” [[issued on Never-Before-Released-Masters and the same version is the bonus track version issued on There’s A Place For Us). Mary and Flo have a spoken passage. If you know their voices from this song, you’ll also know that when you hear the same spoken passage in the Barbara McNair version, that those girls are the Andantes. Listen to the same parts, learn the two different sets of vocals. Now go listen to other Supremes songs you may have in question.

Stop! In The Name Of Love is the latest hot topic, so I’ll acknowledge it here. Listen to the alternate from disc 2 of More Hits, also in a different mix on the box set. Now listen to the live versions on At The Copa, or the video from the Hollywood Palace. They are all consistent. Now listen to the released “hit” version. The voice you are hearing, is Jackie Hicks. Go back to McNair’s Fancy Passes, you’ll hear Jackie there. You’ll hear her on Run Run Run. But you’ll also hear her clearly on Ask The Lonely by the Four Tops, I Heard It Through The Grapevine by Marvin Gaye and dozens of other non-Supremes songs

I’m sure that regardless of what I could say, some will argue forever. I respect everyone’s opinions. But, it is what it is. More importantly, this is not the first time this information has been suggested, discussed or challenged. Nor will it be the last. I can only confirm what I know.

This does not, and will not tarnish the Supremes reputation as the greatest female group of all-time. The roads they paved for others must be acknowledged and respected. What they accomplished has never been duplicated.

I’ll save the discussion about every other Supremes song for another day. If they weren’t on a particular song, well, it is what it is. They’re still on literally hundreds of other songs. Mary Wilson is still singing these hits today, Diana Ross is still singing this hits today. Diana and Mary’s legacies separately, and together as the Supremes, with Florence [[and Cindy, respectfully) will last long after we’re all gone. I personally love them, they are incredible women. The people I work with love them too, as I know all of you do as well. I have nothing but love and respect for each of these ladies, for all nine of them actually, and will continue to support what they did, and continue to do. I hope you will also.

[marv2]

Well, Stingbee, we know that that not all notations were correct in the tape vaults, after all... Flo's "O Holy night" stated on the tape can that there were no vocals. And I think that yes.... they are just making these determinations from listening..... but it wouldn't surprise me if certain members of the Andantes aren't planting these opinions in these guys' minds. I DO hear an Andante on there... I've said that...but not instead of, in addition to.

Are you telling me that the superb recording of Florence Ballard singing "O Holy Night" was cataloged and shelved as not having any vocals on it? Is this why we did not get to hear it for over 30 years? That is incredible! It was the best Christmas song The Supremes ever recorded. As I said some time ago, if Marlene and them are claiming too much credit now all these years later, I am not buying it period. They cannot remember everything right from 45-50 years ago.

[bradsupremes]

Brad, they had the damned multitracks when they compiled the complete motown singles! The problem here is that TWO OFFICIAL Motown releases are giving contradictory information, when they were researched and released less than 5 years from each other. Obviously, one of them is wrong. And what do the multi track tapes tell, then? Do they tell that some people don't know what Flo's voice sounds like?

I highly doubt that when they were doing the Complete Motown Singles that they ordered all of the multitracks for all of the songs and used those. What they most likely used were duplicate masters or the masters on which the particular mix that was used for the single was on. Those masters, especially in the 60's, were mono. So it was a mono mix. That's much different than the multitrack tape on which was recording all of the vocals, instruments, etc. They are two different things. When you are doing something as big as the Complete Motown Singles, I don't think Harry, Andy, etc. had time to sit down and mix/master each and every multitrack tape. All they needed was the mix used for the single, so that's what they went to.

I think you've be very surprised what's on those multitrack tapes especially when things are isolated on their own...

[George Solomon]

There was no reason to pull the multitrack tapes for The Complete Motown Singles or Diana Ross & The Supremes Singles Collection. We used only original mixes and the multitracks are only necessary for remixing a song. We were working on More Hits By The Supremes and The Singles Collection at the same time and were doing new mixes of several songs for More Hits. That is when we discovered some new information about back up vocals and after much deliberation adjusted the liner notes to both collections.
I truly believe that in the future there's no need to clarify who is doing back up vocals. It's more important to just enjoy the music.

[captainjames]

Thanks a million George
Now we have heard from Andy and George
Nuff said !!
the end

There was no reason to pull the multitrack tapes for The Complete Motown Singles or Diana Ross & The Supremes Singles Collection. We used only original mixes and the multitracks are only necessary for remixing a song. We were working on More Hits By The Supremes and The Singles Collection at the same time and were doing new mixes of several songs for More Hits. That is when we discovered some new information about back up vocals and after much deliberation adjusted the liner notes to both collections.
I truly believe that in the future there's no need to clarify who is doing back up vocals. It's more important to just enjoy the music.

[stingbeelee]

I believe that George and Andy have done yeomen's jobs over the years to bring us Motown treasures, and I thank them from the bottom of my heart for this.
For myself, I have to do quite a bit of research and investigation at my job. Things to me are just not adding up. Notwithstanding that, I am not going to go back and forth with George and Andy on who sang backgrounds on this record. I believe that the statement of only Andantes on this record, [[after the postings on this forum), to be inconclusive.
I believe that on the commercial record, the personnel singing are Diana, Flo, Mary and Marlene.
It is still, and will always be, a wonderful record, and the first few bars of Stop! are to this day, jawdropping. It's a great record anyway you look at it.

[soulballad]

My opinon of this is If we keep getting "new" information printed regardless if it's true or not and if it's not in favor of the group, then the legacy of the Supremes will falter and evaporate and sales of their catalog will also go away. BTW this is not good for Diana Ross or for Motown because then it raises a LOT of other questions. Up to this point the loyal fans have stuck by motown and bought all of the releases but over the last 10 to 15 years [[on these boards in particular) It has not been about music at all and it has lessened the whole Motown experience.

No matter if the information that's been recently released is true or not, it's has been put out there and that can cause doubt in some. So at this point it doesn't matter if "Motown" includes their opinion of who sang on what in the future releases the damage is done! Motives and credibility will be questioned for all parties involved.

[skooldem1]

It's safe to say that Diana Ross won't be affected. She is singing lead on all those songs. The fact of the matter is Mary and Florence sing on MOST on those songs. There are some songs where one or both of the ladies singing backup were replaced- or songs that had other singers in addition to Mary and Flo. But that happens across the board, with many record companies. It is really not a shocking as some make it seem. Mary Wilson, Florence Ballard, and Cindy Birdsong fans are blowing this all out of proportion.

[marv2]

My opinon of this is If we keep getting "new" information printed regardless if it's true or not and if it's not in favor of the group, then the legacy of the Supremes will falter and evaporate and sales of their catalog will also go away. BTW this is not good for Diana Ross or for Motown because then it raises a LOT of other questions. Up to this point the loyal fans have stuck by motown and bought all of the releases but over the last 10 to 15 years [[on these boards in particular) It has not been about music at all and it has lessened the whole Motown experience.

No matter if the information that's been recently released is true or not, it's has been put out there and that can cause doubt in some. So at this point it doesn't matter if "Motown" includes their opinion of who sang on what in the future releases the damage is done! Motives and credibility will be questioned for all parties involved.

Very well said and a more than reasonable, different angle to all of this.
Not much can be said at this point in time that is going to change one iota what I believe, so enjoy mary, flo and diane the supremes!

[TheMotownManiac]

Dear George,

There are a few people who, because they want things a certain way, will always insist on it. I know a man who had a heart attack because his insurance converted to an HMO and he refused to get a referral - thinking it was Hilary Clinton's health care reform in action. He lost his periphieral vision for life. Please don't punish the vast majority who, like Andy said, want the truth about the music that we love. I don't care who is on Stop! I only know I bought it the day it came out and still play it. For the record, I don't hear Mary OR Flo on it, and cetainly, have always missed Flo on You Can't hurry Love. I have a friend who says The Andantes were so incredibly talented, that they could pass for Supremes, Marvelettes and Vandellas. I concur. Mary & Flo were talented, but they weren't always what the producers wanted. What's the big deal? I applaud your work, say Bravo! and send my best wishes to those so obviously upset, first we have to deal with no Santa Claus, and now THIS!

[honest man]

Ha funny enough been listening to Marvelettes vol 2 never knew Flo, Cindy ,Mary had also sang backup with the Marvelettes,cheers.

[TheMotownManiac]

Except most people don't care. So Mary & Flo aren't on Stop! - who cares? They aren't on Love Child - who cares? It's still their biggest selling single of all time. It's the music - The supremes, in all of their incarnations, included The Andantes or other session singers. Mary tried to paint a false conspiracy theory in her feebly facted bio, claiming that Motown began using The Andantes after Flo left o get the public used to just Diana's voice. I laughed at that notion then, and now that we know the A's were on early hits and entire LP's in 1965, that shoots Mary's credibility AND motivations to hell. This does nothing to lessen The Motown Experience for me - it enhances it. I'm fascinated by the work put into the music we all hold so dear. I'm sure Stop! would have been just as big or close if Mary & Flo were on it, but HDH felt differently at the time of creation. I hope you will come to love the music for how it sounds - not the mechanics behind it.

[TheMotownManiac]

Brilliant! Thank you. Thank you for all of your hard work, and putting the truth above the fiction.

[marv2]

Except most people don't care. So Mary & Flo aren't on Stop! - who cares? They aren't on Love Child - who cares? It's still their biggest selling single of all time. It's the music - The supremes, in all of their incarnations, included The Andantes or other session singers. Mary tried to paint a false conspiracy theory in her feebly facted bio, claiming that Motown began using The Andantes after Flo left o get the public used to just Diana's voice. I laughed at that notion then, and now that we know the A's were on early hits and entire LP's in 1965, that shoots Mary's credibility AND motivations to hell. This does nothing to lessen The Motown Experience for me - it enhances it. I'm fascinated by the work put into the music we all hold so dear. I'm sure Stop! would have been just as big or close if Mary & Flo were on it, but HDH felt differently at the time of creation. I hope you will come to love the music for how it sounds - not the mechanics behind it.

But they ARE on "Stop In the Name of Love" and now see, you done gave yourself away when you described Mary Wilson's New York Times Bestseller and the all time best selling music relate biography, "Dreamgirl, My Life As A Supreme" as her "feebly facted bio.

I think you set a new all time World record for losing you public credibility here with just your third posting. Now I know how to view your comments from here on! Thanks. LOL!

[marv2]

Oh and for the record. According the Supremes contracts, it was illegal for Motown to replace her, Florence or Diane on recordings by the Supremes or in stage performances if either were physically able to perform/sing. It all came out in court in 1977. No conspiracy theories just the fact that Motown was in breach of contract when they recorded "Love Child", "Someday We'll Be Together". They said nothing about "Stop In the Name of Love", because Mary and Florence are on that record.

[honest man]

themotownmaniac well said could not have put it better, what a sellout-loser. cheers.

[marv2]

Now, that is who I'd like to hear from regarding this near worn out subject, the Holland Brothers and Lamont Dozier. They were there!

[Roberta75]

There was no reason to pull the multitrack tapes for The Complete Motown Singles or Diana Ross & The Supremes Singles Collection. We used only original mixes and the multitracks are only necessary for remixing a song. We were working on More Hits By The Supremes and The Singles Collection at the same time and were doing new mixes of several songs for More Hits. That is when we discovered some new information about back up vocals and after much deliberation adjusted the liner notes to both collections.
I truly believe that in the future there's no need to clarify who is doing back up vocals. It's more important to just enjoy the music.

And there you have it folks.

Thank you George.

Roberta

[marv2]

And there you have it folks.

Thank you George.

Roberta

You got nothing! That's just his opinion.

[jillfoster]

And there you have it folks.

Thank you George.

Roberta

It's not a "There You Have It" situation when someone whose hearing may or not be accurate says something that is completely subjective. I've heard people say all KINDS of things, I've heard John Perrone say with complete certainty that Cindy is not singing the operatic intro in "The Loving Country", and we all know that's totally untrue. We HAVE the isolated background vocals, but not EACH vocalist isolated. When 3 people are singing together, sometimes people's judgement can be thrown off as to who is in the mix. And singers don't always sound EXACTLY the same on every song. If one of the HOLLANDS makes that statement, then I will accept it as fact.

[Roberta75]

It's not a "There You Have It" situation when someone whose hearing may or not be accurate says something that is completely subjective. I've heard people say all KINDS of things, I've heard John Perrone say with complete certainty that Cindy is not singing the operatic intro in "The Loving Country", and we all know that's totally untrue. We HAVE the isolated background vocals, but not EACH vocalist isolated. When 3 people are singing together, sometimes people's judgement can be thrown off as to who is in the mix. And singers don't always sound EXACTLY the same on every song. If one of the HOLLANDS makes that statement, then I will accept it as fact.

It's "There you have it" for me.

End of story.

[jobeterob]

Thanks George.

I know you guys who actually work on these projects have some reluctance to enter the fray and bring rationality and facts into the mix of high anxiety and emotion. I respect you greatly for setting the record straight.

If the doubters/haters can't take it from George and Andy, they couldn't take it from Berry, Mary and Diana, or even Diane.

But deep down, you know the man has served you the final goods and Roberta is right ~ it's a done story. And Motown Maniac is also right..............who cares?

Mary is not laying awake at night over this and Diane doesn't know and Diana doesn't care; too busy on the tour.

[carole cucumber]

Oh and for the record. According the Supremes contracts, it was illegal for Motown to replace her, Florence or Diane on recordings by the Supremes or in stage performances if either were physically able to perform/sing. It all came out in court in 1977. No conspiracy theories just the fact that Motown was in breach of contract when they recorded "Love Child", "Someday We'll Be Together". They said nothing about "Stop In the Name of Love", because Mary and Florence are on that record.

Marv ,
Don't your 'they' mean Mary & Motown?
Perhaps "they" said nothing about "Stop In The Name Of Love" , because Mary and Flo recorded vocals which may have been used on one version and not the other. Mary may not have been listening all that closely to notice/ distinguish on which version the Andantes were added/ replaced the Supremes. If Mary didn't notice, she wouldn't bring the song up in any lawsuit.
"Love Child" and "Someday We'll Be Together" are an entirely different issue- Mary knows that she was not on either; Cindy also knows the same. Mary brought these up, cause she knew for sure!
Therefore, Marv, your argument on this post is like comparing apples and oranges and not all that effective.

[soulballad]

I don't have a problem with truth. In fact if HDH stated some facts I could accept it and move on. Anyone other than HDH or Diana or Mary is just offering an opinon pure and simple!

[HowieP]

Love Factory The History Of Holland Dozier Holland by Howard Priestley, the book I started many years back and [[hopefully) as accurate a history as I could write is now available on Kindle.

[marv2]

I don't have a problem with truth. In fact if HDH stated some facts I could accept it and move on. Anyone other than HDH or Diana or Mary is just offering an opinon pure and simple!

I am of this same opinion.

[marv2]

Marv ,
Don't your 'they' mean Mary & Motown?
Perhaps "they" said nothing about "Stop In The Name Of Love" , because Mary and Flo recorded vocals which may have been used on one version and not the other. Mary may not have been listening all that closely to notice/ distinguish on which version the Andantes were added/ replaced the Supremes. If Mary didn't notice, she wouldn't bring the song up in any lawsuit.
"Love Child" and "Someday We'll Be Together" are an entirely different issue- Mary knows that she was not on either; Cindy also knows the same. Mary brought these up, cause she knew for sure!
Therefore, Marv, your argument on this post is like comparing apples and oranges and not all that effective.

I stand by everything in my original post!

[marv2]

Love Factory The History Of Holland Dozier Holland by Howard Priestley, the book I started many years back and [[hopefully) as accurate a history as I could write is now available on Kindle.

Howie thanks. Could you provide a link to "Kindle"?

[marv2]

It's not a "There You Have It" situation when someone whose hearing may or not be accurate says something that is completely subjective. I've heard people say all KINDS of things, I've heard John Perrone say with complete certainty that Cindy is not singing the operatic intro in "The Loving Country", and we all know that's totally untrue. We HAVE the isolated background vocals, but not EACH vocalist isolated. When 3 people are singing together, sometimes people's judgement can be thrown off as to who is in the mix. And singers don't always sound EXACTLY the same on every song. If one of the HOLLANDS makes that statement, then I will accept it as fact.

Yes. Get Eddie and Brian and also Lamont to tell me and I might believe it. Other than that you are wasting my time.

[supremester]

Oh, it's still feebly facted because even IF they are on Stop!, they are not on many, many other recordings from 1965 and beyond, and Mary knows this. Still, she chose to say it was a conspiracy after Flo left, claimed they performed on shows they didn't yada yada. as you said, it was years ago - how could Mary remember every detail? Anyway, what do you care about Mary - she asked you publicly and privately to stop your mudslinging and yet you continue. Mary is doing her Lena Horne show in Las Vegas in May - are you going? It should be good.

[marv2]

Thanks George.

I know you guys who actually work on these projects have some reluctance to enter the fray and bring rationality and facts into the mix of high anxiety and emotion. I respect you greatly for setting the record straight.

If the doubters/haters can't take it from George and Andy, they couldn't take it from Berry, Mary and Diana, or even Diane.

But deep down, you know the man has served you the final goods and Roberta is right ~ it's a done story. And Motown Maniac is also right..............who cares?

Mary is not laying awake at night over this and Diane doesn't know and Diana doesn't care; too busy on the tour.

I don't believe anything that I didn't already believe in 1965 when I first heard this record. All I see is some words on the internet. I have ears [[that have been checked during a recent physical) that are still very good and I believe them,not what I am reading here. Get the Holland Brothers or just drop the subject.

Oh yeah Mary Wilson will be playing the Rrazz Room again with "Upclose" and in Vegas with "The Lena Horne Project". She also recently served as a mentor to Jordan Sparks for the upcoming film "Sparkle" starring the greatest female singer that ever recorded, Ms. Whitney Houston!

[marv2]

Oh, it's still feebly facted because even IF they are on Stop!, they are not on many, many other recordings from 1965 and beyond, and Mary knows this. Still, she chose to say it was a conspiracy after Flo left, claimed they performed on shows they didn't yada yada. as you said, it was years ago - how could Mary remember every detail? Anyway, what do you care about Mary - she asked you publicly and privately to stop your mudslinging and yet you continue. Mary is doing her Lena Horne show in Las Vegas in May - are you going? It should be good.

Blather, blather.....blather! and I just posted about Mary's upcoming appearance in Vegs in May. I don't know if I will go yet. Are you going to Norwins Supremes Convention in D.C.? You, it will be great and I am sure there will be a few folks there that would to meet you........

[marv2]

Oh, it's still feebly facted because even IF they are on Stop!, they are not on many, many other recordings from 1965 and beyond, and Mary knows this. Still, she chose to say it was a conspiracy after Flo left, claimed they performed on shows they didn't yada yada. as you said, it was years ago - how could Mary remember every detail? Anyway, what do you care about Mary - she asked you publicly and privately to stop your mudslinging and yet you continue. Mary is doing her Lena Horne show in Las Vegas in May - are you going? It should be good.

Yeah it was years ago, but by the time Mary wrote her book 26 years ago, it was far more recent than it is now!

[supremester]

You are wasting your breath. He won't give in because he doesn't want to. He doesn't care what the facts are - he does care about image. Which is why he spends countless hours online bashing Diana Ross and praising Mary. It would be admirable if he stuck to the truth and was classy about it, but he uses foul language, homophobic slurs and false information to bolster his claim. Even his Yahoo Mary Group is down to just a very few participants because of the negativity and falsehoods. He says Mary and he are friends and that they talk etc. I sent her a lot of those instances and she didn't even know who he was, asked for a photo and claimed never to have been to his group. When a member invited her there to see what was going on, he banned him for interfering. But have no fear. All of his claims are being supplied to Mary with an invitation here so she, personally, can address all this pettiness [[her word) and hopefully put an end to it all. She is very, very unhappy with the negativity directed toward Diana by a few of her fans and wants us all to live in peace as we enter our golden years. The words are Reach Out and Touch [[Somebody's Hand)......... make this world a better place, if you can!

[supremester]

Oh yes, I will be there and am looking forward to meeting everyone!

[marv2]

You are wasting your breath. He won't give in because he doesn't want to. He doesn't care what the facts are - he does care about image. Which is why he spends countless hours online bashing Diana Ross and praising Mary. It would be admirable if he stuck to the truth and was classy about it, but he uses foul language, homophobic slurs and false information to bolster his claim. Even his Yahoo Mary Group is down to just a very few participants because of the negativity and falsehoods. He says Mary and he are friends and that they talk etc. I sent her a lot of those instances and she didn't even know who he was, asked for a photo and claimed never to have been to his group. When a member invited her there to see what was going on, he banned him for interfering. But have no fear. All of his claims are being supplied to Mary with an invitation here so she, personally, can address all this pettiness [[her word) and hopefully put an end to it all. She is very, very unhappy with the negativity directed toward Diana by a few of her fans and wants us all to live in peace as we enter our golden years. The words are Reach Out and Touch [[Somebody's Hand)......... make this world a better place, if you can!

Until you can bring me the Holland Brothers and Lamont, this topic/issue is dead!

[atcsm]

I sense some sarcasm in the comment about people wanting to meet him. Since you are hostile towards him, I'm assuming that you are promoting violence [[not your first time).

Blather, blather.....blather! and I just posted about Mary's upcoming appearance in Vegs in May. I don't know if I will go yet. Are you going to Norwins Supremes Convention in D.C.? You, it will be great and I am sure there will be a few folks there that would to meet you........

[atcsm]

Have you figured out what a "Kindle" is yet?

Howie thanks. Could you provide a link to "Kindle"?

[soulster]

I like the Supremes' records. I consider the mono hit single "You Keep Me Hanging On" perhaps the best pop song of the 60s. I don't know or care who actually sang the backgrounds. I just like the song. That guitar figure on the intro and throughout the song is killer!

[jillfoster]

Thanks George.

I know you guys who actually work on these projects have some reluctance to enter the fray and bring rationality and facts into the mix of high anxiety and emotion. I respect you greatly for setting the record straight.

If the doubters/haters can't take it from George and Andy, they couldn't take it from Berry, Mary and Diana, or even Diane.

But deep down, you know the man has served you the final goods and Roberta is right ~ it's a done story. And Motown Maniac is also right..............who cares?

Mary is not laying awake at night over this and Diane doesn't know and Diana doesn't care; too busy on the tour.

There's no rationality and fact in someone's subjective opinion, it is someone saying that THEY think it's Andantes, and not Mary and Flo. Like I said, if the INDIVIDUAL backgrounds were separated, then the evidence would be obvious, but when three women are singing together, it's harder to tell. Did you just ignore the video clip comparison I posted earlier? Here's another:

[marv2]

There's no rationality and fact in someone's subjective opinion, it is someone saying that THEY think it's Andantes, and not Mary and Flo. Like I said, if the INDIVIDUAL backgrounds were separated, then the evidence would be obvious, but when three women are singing together, it's harder to tell. Did you just ignore the video clip comparison I posted earlier? Here's another:

That is definitely Florence Ballard, Mary Wilson, Diana Ross singing on that record. Thanks Jill. Now until the Holland Brothers and Lamont Dozier tells us differently, then anything else is just the opinion of someone else that was not even in the studio that day and clearly do not know the voices of the Supremes very well.

[atcsm]

We'll give him the weekend to discover what a Kindle is, ok?

[jillfoster]

That is definitely Florence Ballard, Mary Wilson, Diana Ross singing on that record. Thanks Jill. Now until the Holland Brothers and Lamont Dozier tells us differently, then anything else is just the opinion of someone else that was not even in the studio that day and clearly do not know the voices of the Supremes very well.

when you directly compare the first 10 seconds of those clips, I think it's quite obvious they are the same, with one extra voice added on the first clip. My main issue is this. If I were George or Andy, I would not have presented this information as FACT unless you talked to the people who were THERE and confirmed it. Those clips I posted above cast serious doubt on their statements. I don't think their intentions are bad, just the opposite.. I've seen both of them post for years, and they are not shit stirrers by any means. I just think they heard something, have ran with it without THOROUGHLY vetting their information. simple as that. I DID just listen to the alternate version on the box set, and YES... the backgrounds are different, the extra voice or voices are not there. But Flo and Mary's voices are clearly on BOTH versions... with the released version containing extra voices to beef it up.

[jillfoster]

And let's also keep in mind that not every singer sings a song the exact same way every time. Flo, in particular would change up her part on "Stop" on many occasions, like this one:

[jillfoster]

We'll give him the weekend to discover what a Kindle is, ok?

How about we give you the weekend to learn how to not act like a complete turd when people are trying to have a serious technical discussion?

[franjoy56]

George and solomon have done good work to bring supremes fans tracks we have never heard and we do appreciate their efforts however, I have to agree with the conclusion that we insist that the record released on Feb 8, 1965 feature mary and Flo with other voice or voices with the supremes, but i think the bottom line is hearing it from hdh

or Mary Wilson, since they were the ones involved in the background recording of the song and Mary would certainly remember that since it was one of their biggest hits, but here is another theory

if it is true mary and flo are alone in the bkg on where did our love go, baby love, come see about me and back in my arms again, why would they replace them on sitnof which was recorded after all of the others, and before another all supremes single nothing but heartaches the only theory i see is that that they wanted the sound fuller by adding the extra [[voice). I will try to reach Mary when she is off tour and "gently" poise the question to her, i do have her email address until i hear otherwise its the supremes to my ears.

[supremester]

Marv and I do not usually get along. He kicked me out of MWOS for saying I liked the background on Love Child. In Stirfry, he commented that my friend that passed of AIDS deserved what he got for being a sexual deviant and wished the same fate for me. [[It's all in the archives.) Even with that knowledge, I doubt he was meaning violence. Violence? This is 2012. Violence because we differ on background voices? LOL it can't be possible. I know I'm new here, but has anyone disagreed so vehemently about an art form that they'd resort to even inferring violence?

I sense some sarcasm in the comment about people wanting to meet him. Since you are hostile towards him, I'm assuming that you are promoting violence [[not your first time).