If CD format is dying, will fans mourn it?

[jobeterob]

If CD format is dying, will fans mourn it?


Nick Patch, The Canadian Press
TORONTO - It was just over 29 years ago that the compact disc was first made widely available to the public, a much-hyped new format that - we were told - was certain to sound vinyl's death knell with crisp digital clarity.


And in the coming decades, CDs did flourish, with music listeners rushing to clear shelf space for stacks of jewel cases [[in hindsight, could they have had a more ridiculous name?). But the second part of that '80s prognostication never really came true. Vinyl only ever died just enough so that it could be revived - with holdout music-loving purists clinging to the old things with such relentless resolve that the format has actually enjoyed a gradual resurgence in recent years.

That growth - marginal as it is - has come at the expense of CDs, now the dinosaur format fading into irrelevance as analysts point to a future that will apparently reside in streams, hard-drives or, perhaps, in the Cloud. According to a report in Side Line Music Magazine that created a stir in October, major labels are even planning to phase the CD out by the end of 2012 in favour of digital-only releases, almost 30 years after Billy Joel's "52nd Street" became the first commercial album to be released on CD in Japan.

So, major labels are reportedly musing on their CD exit strategy, major retailers such as HMV are desperately clearing discs from their shelves and many serious music fans - and stores - have already shifted their focus to vinyl.

The diagnosis on CDs certainly appears terminal, even if the format's eventual recession is more gradual than has been reported. So when CDs do fade into memory, will musicians and music fans alike mourn the little things until they're ripe for an eventual revival, as they did with vinyl? Or will the CD simply go the way of the do-do bird - or worse, the 8-track?

"I don't think CDs dominated long enough for us to get really attached to them," said author, solo artist and former Rheostatics frontman Dave Bidini in a recent interview.

"Vinyl was around for so long before it was supplanted by CDs, and with digital music, the interval is far less.... So I don't think there'll be the kind of romantic pull."

But it largely depends on whom you ask. While some look with disdain upon the CD as the unworthy successor to the far-superior vinyl format, many in the younger generation have forged quite an attachment to their compact discs.

Many of those people, of course, don't remember the hype that accompanied the CD's arrival. Lightweight, compact, supposedly indestructible and with a one-touch song-selection function, the CD was set to offer a revolution in the music industry when it was rolled out in the early '80s.

The discs gained traction slowly in their early years as the price of players gradually came down and more and more artists began releasing their music in the format. The first album to sell a million copies on CD - and to outsell its vinyl format - was Dire Straits' 1985 smash "Brothers in Arms." By the late '80s, CD sales nosed past vinyl and would supplant cassettes as the industry's most-bought format a few years later.

Obviously, the CD's great decline began with the rise of the MP3 in the '90s, accelerating with each passing year. Still, the extent to which the CD is still relevant is up for debate.

Physical album sales tend to make up a greater portion of the overall music market in Canada than the U.S. or U.K. Yet the country's largest music retailer, HMV, continues to nudge the CD to the margins of its business - HMV Canada president Nick Williams says that CDs now take up roughly 30-35 per cent of the company's overall sales here, compared with 90-plus per cent a little over a decade ago.

While Williams argues that CDs are still a significant part of the market - particularly in the case of bells-and-whistles-toting deluxe releases that offer something that digital downloads can't - he declined to predict how long the discs would remain a part of HMV's core strategy.

"Clearly what we have done and will continue to do is to develop the [[selection) in store so it's relevant to the consumer, and if we were all music these days, it wouldn't be totally relevant," Williams said in a telephone interview.

"The mix has definitely changed from a music perspective ... but [[drastic change) is a while away yet. The speculation is all very premature if I'm honest."

Yet a large sector of music fans aren't exactly shedding tears over the threat of a CD-free future.

Vinyl has long been the format of choice for some listeners who crow about the superior sound - while CDs have a wider dynamic range, their audio is often compressed to be as loud as possible, while vinyl tends to offer a more refined sound - and, to a lesser extent, the esthetically appealing broad design.

"The CD is inconsequential to me," said Blue Rodeo co-frontman Jim Cuddy, who says he listens to vinyl at home and his iPod when he needs portability.

"Vinyl is so visceral. It is so physical. It's so different [[from) listening to a CD. A CD cannot affect you in the same way.... I've dumped all my CDs, I've digitized my whole world at home and just listen to albums for pleasure."

Still, there are plenty of reasons not to believe that CDs will fade as quickly as has been reported. Alan Cross - host of the syndicated radio show "The Secret History of Rock" - quickly reels off five major factors that could keep CDs alive: brick-and-mortar stores such as Best Buy and Wal-Mart still rely on selling them, even if their selections are shrinking; people still want to own something physical; record labels are still turning a profit on CDs; indie bands rely on selling CDs at shows and, finally, many people simply don't want to listen to music any other way.

"The vast majority of the population isn't ready to move on to digital downloads," Cross said in a recent telephone interview. "That would mean my parents would have to learn how to use iTunes and an MP3 player.

"Ain't going to happen."

And it's not just older listeners who are still toting a torch for the format.

Many music fans who were born in the '80s or later have wrapped the CD format in a fuzzy coat of nostalgia. The same way vinyl venerators happily bend ears with declarations of the format's superiority, some CD loyalists are not content to simply toss their discs in the dustbin.

"CDs are really my generation," said 27-year-old Hedley frontman Jacob Hoggard in a recent interview. "I think there's still a lot of merit to a tangible disc. There's a lot more going on on a CD than an iTunes digital booklet.

"It's just a completely different buying experience that I think only the specific generation that grew up with it can relate to, the same way that someone who prefers records can just sort of relate to that really large tangible thing."

Twenty-four-year-old electro-pop chanteuse Lights conceded a similar attachment to CDs, though she wasn't sure how long it would last.

"I grew up with cassette tapes, [[and) I saw those go - so I was right at the phase where those were in and then gone," she said. "You can't get too nostalgic over it because I've already seen one disappear. I saw the MiniDisc come and go. I saw the Zip [[drive) come and go."

"[[But) I guess I'm just kind of used to the CD."

Former Barenaked Ladies frontman Steven Page understands the generational split better than most.

While he says his own buying habits tend to be similar to Cuddy's - "Occasionally I'll buy a CD, but usually, unless it's on vinyl, I don't buy a physical copy," he says - he recalls how disappointed his 15-year-old son was when Page broke the news that the CD could be phased out in the near future.

"He was totally disappointed," Page said. "[[It) seemed so strange, but he's funny. He's kind of like how I was when I was a teenager, where he likes the late-night record-shop thing.

"He likes going to the record store, going through the book and reading the liner notes and all that sort of stuff. He likes to own it. So he'll be upset about it."

If the CD continues to maintain a proverbial pulse, it could be based on the loyalty of young fans like Page's son.

Sure, major labels and retailers seem to be approaching the point where they'll chuck CDs aside like an ancient Olympian hurling a discus. But as vinyl taught us, death is relative. The true measure of the CD's value - roughly three decades after the format was first rolled in front of a curious public - may lie in how long a compact cluster of CD loyalists refuse to relinquish their discs.

"[[The CD) may disappear with our generation of music consumers," said Hedley's Hoggard.

"But I don't think we'll ever stop using them."

___

[soulster]

I still like buying CDs, but I have also embraced downloads...hi-resolution downloads, that is. We are at that time many have dreamed of - we can literally own the master! That means we can, in many cases, get an exact copy of the master tape, or at least a mastered version of that master tape. But, it is in a digital resolution that is equivalent to the source. You can burn them to a DVD or blu-ray and play them in your DVD or blu-ray player. The only downside is that there are usually no liner notes or no engineering credits. But, the sound! And, it's a sound you can't get from CDs or iTunes downloads, or even vinyl!

[Amithesameboy]

Of course you don' t " literally own the master ".....that would mean owning an actual physical master....


Mourn the Cd ? Hell, yes. That would mean no more releases like the Fame story.

[soulster]

Of course you don' t " literally own the master ".....that would mean owning an actual physical master....

If you have an exact replica of the master, you own it. Remember that these days, everything is backed up digitally. As far as the sound and resolution is concerned, especially if it's 24-bit/192k, you have the master recording! Hi-rez digital has changed everything!

If you go to HD Tracks and buy an album, you can master the thing yourself to your liking! Anyone can get the same softwareand/or hardware they use in the studios today.

There's really no need to mess around with shoddy CDs today. You can get the vinyl or HD album, and do it yourself. And, there are still lots of audiophile CDs that don't screw with the sound of the master by using ungodly amounts of compression and bad EQ.

[Hotspurman]

I got rid of my vinyl for practical reasons - with some 30,000 records they took up far too much room. I've not got anywhere near replacing all of it on CD, but I like having a physical product that I can look at the sleevenotes etc, so whilst I have downloaded a couple of things [[only two of which I've paid for, the rest of done thanks to promotional scratchcards that gave me free downloads), I wouldn't want to see that be the only way of getting hold of music in the future. But the record industry is no different from a lot of others as far as I can see - buy a ticket for a concert, football match or airplane flight and they will email you a sheet of paper that you have to print out in order for them to scan when you turn up at the venue/airport etc. and they charge you a fee for allowing you to do their job for them!

[carlo]

I still like buying CDs, but I have also embraced downloads...hi-resolution downloads, that is. We are at that time many have dreamed of - we can literally own the master! That means we can, in many cases, get an exact copy of the master tape, or at least a mastered version of that master tape. But, it is in a digital resolution that is equivalent to the source.

I am curious. Where do you download your music? I very rarely download from iTunes and all of the music on there is compressed to 192 kbps, so it isn't exactly high-resolution. As far as I know, CD's offer 320 kbps sound quality, so I can't imagine any website offering downloads with sound quality that surpasses that? Or maybe I just don't know about it? Some websites have 320 kbps downloads, but even that is not very common, as far as I know.

Personally, I prefer vinyl over CD's and CD's over digital downloads. Analog is the ultimate format IMO. Digital smigital.

[soulster]

I am curious. Where do you download your music? I very rarely download from iTunes and all of the music on there is compressed to 192 kbps, so it isn't exactly high-resolution. As far as I know, CD's offer 320 kbps sound quality, so I can't imagine any website offering downloads with sound quality that surpasses that? Or maybe I just don't know about it? Some websites have 320 kbps downloads, but even that is not very common, as far as I know.

Personally, I prefer vinyl over CD's and CD's over digital downloads. Analog is the ultimate format IMO. Digital smigital.

https://www.hdtracks.com/

Well, first of all, iTunes has 256 kbps AAC files, which is roughly the equivalent of 320kbps mp3 files.

Once you have heard what amounts to the master tape, even vinyl can't hold a candle to it!

[carlo]

Thanks Soulster!

[soulster]

I'm not knocking vinyl, and it can sound fantastic...but you really need a good turntable + cartridge + phono stage, and I don't mean using a $125 cheapo with USB! Good tables start somewhere around $800. There are tables that cost as much as a mid-size car! $5000 AD converters, $5000 phono stages, and $10,000 phono carts! I'm not saying you need to spend that much to get good vinyl sound, but it can get crazy! You may need all that to extract the same sound you get from a hi-rez FLAC file of the master tape. But, you can have it with digital now. And, then, when you go back to CDs, you wonder what the hell happened to all that sound! The problem is that a CD is 16-bits, and that isn't enough to resolve the dynamics and detail that the original master, or even vinyl can give you. To get there, you need 24-bits. And, the more frequency response you have, the smoother and relaxed your sound will be, like the artist and producer intended, and that starts with more than what 44.1 kHz will provide. Hi-rez cannot be put on a CD. You have to play it on a DVD, blu-ray, or as a computer file.

But, even the lowly CD wouldn't be so bad if the artists, record labels, producers, and mastering engineers, in that order, would not compress the purity shit out of the sound!

[carlo]

I'm not knocking vinyl, and it can sound fantastic...but you really need a good turntable + cartridge + phono stage, and I don't mean using a $125 cheapo with USB!

The turntables they have out now are pieces of you know what, for the most part. Pieces of plastic junk made in China. I have an older direct-drive Technics turntable that I bought at a church basement sale one year for $2. It was the best deal ever. While sound is important to me, I'm not that huge of an audiophile that I'm going to spend hundreds of dollars to get the very best of the best that's available. Although I'm sure there are people who are into that sort of thing and that's cool...

[soulster]

The turntables they have out now are pieces of you know what, for the most part. Pieces of plastic junk made in China. I have an older direct-drive Technics turntable that I bought at a church basement sale one year for $2. It was the best deal ever. While sound is important to me, I'm not that huge of an audiophile that I'm going to spend hundreds of dollars to get the very best of the best that's available. Although I'm sure there are people who are into that sort of thing and that's cool...

I'me one of them. I don't have thousands of $$ invested in vinyl playback. I was fortunate enough four years ago to buy an $800 Music Hall turntable. best investment I ever made for vinyl. I also bought aCambridge Audio phono stage for about $200. I bought a used $500 cart for $100 + the replacement stylus. My rig sounds pretty darn good for the money.

[jobeterob]

There are rumours around that HMV will close a lot of stores in the New Year.

[soulster]

There are rumours around that HMV will close a lot of stores in the New Year.

Pretty soon the only way to get CDs will be either from a rare mom and pop store or through internet ordering.

[jobeterob]

yes, you are right.........for a lot of the world, we are already there

[timmyfunk]

I will certainly miss both formats. I'm not downloading anything. I will forever be dedicated to vinyl and CD. If it means buying a whole mess of back up turntables, then that's what I'll do.

[chidrummer]

soulster, I'm with you on the hi-resolution downloads. I'll keep an eye on hdtracks. Not enough of a selection right now, but what they do have is definitely high quality. Add a pre-amp to the ipod and I might just switch everything over. Cloud tech has already started to change media services. Car manufacturers are already discontinuing factory installed CD players in favor of Sirus and other web-based music providers. The revolution will be televised after all.

[stephanie]

Dont own an IPOD and I dont want one.

[soulster]

soulster, I'm with you on the hi-resolution downloads. I'll keep an eye on hdtracks. Not enough of a selection right now, but what they do have is definitely high quality. Add a pre-amp to the ipod and I might just switch everything over. Cloud tech has already started to change media services. Car manufacturers are already discontinuing factory installed CD players in favor of Sirus and other web-based music providers. The revolution will be televised after all.

My man! The question I have for the forum is if the sound quality is better than all the rest, why wouldn't you want a download? I don't use an iPod either, I have all my music streamed from my server. It's the future today.

[chidrummer]

If you heard an iPod through one of these: http://www.nuforce.com/hp/products/iconhdp/index.php
You might change your mind.

[soulster]

If you heard an iPod through one of these: http://www.nuforce.com/hp/products/iconhdp/index.php
You might change your mind.

No. Once your music has been degraded with being encoded to an mp3 or AAC lossy file, there is nothing...NOTHING that can give you back the original sound. Nor can it improve the sound. However, that DAC is wonderful for the sound reproduction of any lossless file, LP, or CD.

[bankhousedave]

I'm with you, Soulster. Mp3 is like jpeg. It sounds mightily clean, but it's a damned algorithm. Most of what should be there is missing. It's like an impression of the original.

A year or so ago, I was asked if I would do a radio show. Naturally they wanted me to do a pilot, so I put together some tracks and links in wave format. Dynamically, you could see the range of the show and the variation on all the tracks. The Sony equipment and software I was using offered guidelines of the range you should work in, but you were free, and you played tracks with the mix and the dynamics they came with. I need not point out how important that is to us on this forum, especially knowing the work that goes into mixing and producing the original tracks.

When the pilot was ready, I contacted the station and asked how they would like me to deliver it. 'Just MP3 it and fire it up the line with YouSendIt,' was the reply. OK, I thought. I don't know whether that would have been the way of things if I had continued, but I used the software to convert to MP3 and, instantly, it fitted exactly between the parameters. The top end of everything hit the top line, and the bottom end of everything hit the bottom line. Suddenly, like a streetcar, the music could not take its own course. Worse, all the subtelties - all those things that the mixers stayed up all night discovering - were lost at a single stroke.

I wasn't in a position to buy the complete TCMS singles. I downloaded some when it was possible and [[wouldn't you know it?} put them on CD [[It's the only way I can play them on my proper sound system). I now know what those tracks were, but not what they sounded like. It's a bit like the AM, or the TV version. Better than nothing, but, like most things digital, ultimately a fraud.

[ms_m]

Dave, I'm confused with your comparison of a Mp3 to a jpeg. The latter is an image file or to be more precised a digital image file. The ratio of compression can be controlled to the point of little [[noticeable) loss in quality.

All in all, the two are a matter of taste and preference depending on what you're looking for in an image or audio. For me, a person who grew up listening to the songs of the day through a car radio am station and transistor radios [[bad reception, static and all) I'm not going to sweat compressed files...although I will admit to liking flac files over mp3 but it's not a deal breaker that will keep me from listening to music. Whatever floats your boat I say and my Ipod is here to stay. Now if Chi fronts me 400 bucks [[plus tax) I may upgrade how I use my Ipod.

[bankhousedave]

The jpeg is the visual equivalent, M. Like most things digital, it's an approximation. We get sent jpegs for use in our books. As long as you get them early you can convert them to a non-compressed format. If not, they pixelate and degrade with each save. There's nothing wrong with using them for family photos, but they're not for studio use. Just like you, I heard all the music of my younger days on a combination of sound setups. Transistors squashed all the sound into the treble and stereograms stuffed it all into the bass. Then came stereo-playable-mono, which made it all sound like you were listening through a vacuum cleaner tube. CDs themselves are digital, and suffer from a lack of the warmth to be found in vinyl, but they don't scratch and hiss, are not dependent on the sharpness of your needle, and contain pretty much all the stuff that counted when it was in the grooves.

I have the same thing with emails and online discussions. You make your point with a flourish and only after you hit send do you realise all the letters are in the wrong order.

[soulster]

CDs themselves are digital, and suffer from a lack of the warmth to be found in vinyl,...

If CDs suffer from a lack of warmth, it is mostly because of the mastering. The other reason is often because they have a low resolution at 16-bit and a lower sampling rate at 44.1. One must also realize that the coldness one may hear with CD is a result of the CD player itself. Specifically, it is the converter in the CD player that is the culprit.

[arrr&bee]

Me mourn the death of cd's? Well let me put it this way...haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa...[ding dong the witch is dead]hell to the no i hate em always have always will vinyl forever baby!!!

[phil]

I'm with you arrr&bee !

[ms_m]

Dave I wasn't disagreeing with your opinion I simply don't share it. For me it still comes down to a matter of preference ....some people will only like and eat a meal cooked from scratch and others will be deliriously satisfied with nuking a meal and calling it a day.

We all have our likes and dislikes, it's human nature but if a medium is not to one persons liking that doesn't necessarily make the medium bad...it just makes it not to your liking...shrugs...but carry on and Happy New Year Dave.

[bankhousedave]

You know I get what you're saying too, M. Happy New Year to you.

[soulster]

Once you hear the master tapes sound on a good system, you can't go back! I can never be completely happy with anything less than hi-rez again!

[bankhousedave]

I need to give that a try Soulster.

[jobeterob]

HMV launching streaming service in 2012


Nick Patch, The Canadian Press
TORONTO - HMV Canada is hoping a new online streaming subscription service will help the venerable music retailer recover from a year marred by store closures and the ongoing decrease in physical music sales.


The company is looking to launch its streaming service in March, said HMV Canada president Nick Williams in a recent interview.

By the time it launches, the new venture should face competition from a number of other services including Rdio, Slacker Radio, Rara and Deezer.

But Williams is confident that HMV will have no trouble standing out in that marketplace.

"I think we're more than capable of overachieving against [[the competition)," Williams said.

"The brand is strong enough ... that we can talk with authority and with confidence and of course, people trust the brand."

Williams says HMV's streaming service will charge the industry-standard $5 per month for unlimited access through a computer and an additional $5 a month for mobile access.

While new streaming services are now entering the Canadian market at a steady pace, none have taken hold the way Spotify has internationally, so Williams sees an opportunity.

For one thing, Williams argues that few people have actually signed up to pay for streaming online.

"A lot of it is early adopters only at the moment, in fact I'd argue that most of the people who signed up for these are industry people," he said.

He also points out that HMV has a pre-existing relationship with Canadian record labels as well as the expertise to build a competitive catalogue of music. And since 2009, HMV has operated a digital retail shop with more than 10 million MP3s for sale, and has studied how its consumers have responded to the service.

But the music retailer's biggest advantage, he argues, might lie in marketing.

"A challenge I think all these startups have ... is that they haven't got a consumer base to talk to," Williams said.

Continued...

[jobeterob]

http://sync.sympatico.ca/news/hmv_la..._2012/55feeda2

[soulster]

Man, people don't want streaming, they want downloads. They don't want their music to be tied to the internet.

People like Pandora and all the others, but they will never replace ownership, or being able to do what you want with the music you buy. Streaming gives too much control to the labels to give us what they want to give us, and if your internet goes, so does your music.