The British Invasion vs. The Motown Sound

**skooldem1** · 10-29-2011, 12:54 PM

Which one had a greater impact on the music industry and pop culture?

**bankhousedave** · 10-29-2011, 01:18 PM

In the long run, the Motown Sound - helped and brought to attention by the former.

**captainjames** · 10-29-2011, 01:36 PM

I will agree on The Motown Sound as a whole.

**soulster** · 10-29-2011, 01:54 PM

How about both?

However, as much as I/we love the Sound of Young America, the British Invasion that started in the early 60s has had a much broader, far-reaching impact on popular music. The Motown Sound of the 60s went away, but the Brits never did! The Beatles in the 60s, along with The Rolling Stones, The Yardbirds, and The Who, inspired countless garage bands, some of which went on to get hit records. Led Zeppelin was the first super group, soon to be followed by Crosby, Stills, & Nash [[with Nash being the Brit). Jimi Hendrix was heavily influenced by the English guitarists when he lived there. However, all of those British rockers were just trying to play American blues. You might say it was actually the Blues greats that had more of an impact.

R&B? It's very hard to say just how much influence had on the R&B music scene beyond the imitators of the 60s. There was the Philadelphia scene, the southern sound, as well as the funksters like James Brown and Sly Stone, all meshed in together into a wonderful buffet of the 70s.

**tamla617** · 10-29-2011, 05:25 PM

blues and motown kicked off the '60's britpop style and they just took it back home to the states.the beatles praised smokey robinson and motown.motown [[in the uk) got publicity and popularity.blues got a relaunch in the states and because they were all white got airplay.which lead to all the real blues people getting recognition.bb king said something like he owed his life/everything to eric clapton/cream etc.

**bradsupremes** · 10-29-2011, 05:43 PM

Both had an influential impact, but I think the Motown Sound has done greater as a whole. The British Invasion had no defined sound. It was the artists like the Beatles and the Rolling Stones who were influential and inspired later bands to come, not the sound. It was the Motown Sound that was unique, its own sound and still influential. When it comes to music genres, Motown has its own category. At weddings and parties, Motown is always a favorite. It's a feel good music which continues entertain generations. Even today when an artist does a song with a "Motown-esque" quality about it, it is usually a big hit that's well-received by all ages. Just look at Cee Lo Green's "Forget You," Amy Winehouse's "Back To Black" album, Bruno Mars' performance of "Valerie" on the MTV VMA's and such artists as Dionne Bromfield, Raphael Saadiq, and Duffy. All were heavily Motown influenced. There's no denying the impact and importance of the British Invasion, but the Motown Sound was America's defense and will be continue to be a crowning achievement in popular music that will continue to inspire for generations.

**stephanie** · 10-29-2011, 06:03 PM

If I had to pick ONE it would be the Brits! Motown was the sound that had the blacks crossover and have pop appeal unlike Stax and other soul labels and YES the Motown Sound has lasted. Hermans Hermits, Gerry and the Pacemakers, The Swinging Blue Jeans all but dissapeared but the Who the Beatles and The Rolling Stones have done something for music that the Motown sound has not and that was to bring the blues in and keep it alive. Every single brit band has started a psychedelic sound [[Beatles), Prog Rock [[Procol Harum and to a certain extent the WHO with Tommy, almost every genre blues, Pop and Rock, and RandB [[The Rolling Stones) Blues, Soul, and Pop [[The Animals) when it comes to different genres and the long lasting affect I would have to say the British Invasion. Motown has a lot of outside influence and has not died that is true but when it comes to underground influence and long lasting musicianship even into Heavy Metal I have to say the brits win. [[Hanging my head in shame and hoping the Funk Brothers dont find me....I DO like the Funk Brothers better than the Wrecking Crew though although there are people in the Wrecking Crew whom I love. I changed my mind the Funk Brothers and the Wrecking Crew cant be compared one is Detroit and another is LA)

**tmd** · 10-30-2011, 08:47 AM

You don't think " British Invasion" - what you think of is the Beatles and other acts.

There truly is no other brand in music, that is more understood than the Motown brand.

If you were to asked the majority of people what is the Britsh Invasion they would give you a strange look- if you asked them about the Motown sound, they would give you that instant smile and recogntion.

Motown has become the Xerox of music- most radio station for instant think of soul and Motown as one- just listen to XM radio.

**marv2** · 10-30-2011, 11:26 AM

Originally Posted by bankhousedave

In the long run, the Motown Sound - helped and brought to attention by the former.

I agree Dave. The British Invasion came and went rather fast like a fad. The Motown Sound cauight on gradually and has impact on music to this day.

**marv2** · 10-30-2011, 11:31 AM

Originally Posted by bradsupremes

Both had an influential impact, but I think the Motown Sound has done greater as a whole. The British Invasion had no defined sound. It was the artists like the Beatles and the Rolling Stones who were influential and inspired later bands to come, not the sound. It was the Motown Sound that was unique, its own sound and still influential. When it comes to music genres, Motown has its own category. At weddings and parties, Motown is always a favorite. It's a feel good music which continues entertain generations. Even today when an artist does a song with a "Motown-esque" quality about it, it is usually a big hit that's well-received by all ages. Just look at Cee Lo Green's "Forget You," Amy Winehouse's "Back To Black" album, Bruno Mars' performance of "Valerie" on the MTV VMA's and such artists as Dionne Bromfield, Raphael Saadiq, and Duffy. All were heavily Motown influenced. There's no denying the impact and importance of the British Invasion, but the Motown Sound was America's defense and will be continue to be a crowning achievement in popular music that will continue to inspire for generations.

In the eighties several major acts were appropriating the Motown Sound and purposely attempting the "Jammereque" grooves LOL! Most notably, Hall & Oates "Maneater", Katrina & the Waves "Walking On Sunshine" The Go Gos ,etc,etc

**nabob** · 10-30-2011, 12:34 PM

Originally Posted by tmd

There truly is no other brand in music, that is more understood than the Motown brand.

If you were to asked the majority of people what is the Britsh Invasion they would give you a strange look- if you asked them about the Motown sound, they would give you that instant smile and recogntion.

Motown has become the Xerox of music- most radio station for instant think of soul and Motown as one- just listen to XM radio.

Motown is also greatly misunderstood. Sadly, ask many 20 somethings and 30 somethings about the Motown Sound and any black artist from the 60s and 70s will be named whether they were Motown legends or legends from other labels.

**soulster** · 10-30-2011, 01:57 PM

Originally Posted by marv2

I agree Dave. The British Invasion came and went rather fast like a fad. The Motown Sound cauight on gradually and has impact on music to this day.

Came and went? The British invasion never left. The names just kept changing all the way up to the 90s! David Bowie, Elton John, Hot Chocolate, Led Zeppelin, Yes, Billy Ocean, Bee Gees, Olivia Newton-John, AC/DC [[yes, all three were actually Brits) The Foundations, Tony Macaulay, Robin Trower, The Moody Blues, Thompson Twins, Lisa Stansfield, Adele, Tom Jones, Billy Idol, Average White Band...the list is almost endless!

**bradsupremes** · 10-30-2011, 02:14 PM

Originally Posted by nabob

Motown is also greatly misunderstood. Sadly, ask many 20 somethings and 30 somethings about the Motown Sound and any black artist from the 60s and 70s will be named whether they were Motown legends or legends from other labels.

The same can be said about the British Invasion. Aside from the Beatles and the Rolling Stones, no one in their 20's and 30's would know who the Kinks, Manfred Mann, Herman & the Hermits or the Animals were. They probably wouldn't know if they were British or not.

The British Invasion had individuals that inspired groups to follow. The Motown Sound was a particular sound that inspired how of popular music was recorded, written, performed and should sound.

**tamla617** · 10-31-2011, 06:59 PM

Originally Posted by bradsupremes

The same can be said about the British Invasion. Aside from the Beatles and the Rolling Stones, no one in their 20's and 30's would know who the Kinks, Manfred Mann, Herman & the Hermits or the Animals were. They probably wouldn't know if they were British or not.

The British Invasion had individuals that inspired groups to follow. The Motown Sound was a particular sound that inspired how of popular music was recorded, written, performed and should sound.

my kids know the kinks [[esp "you really got me") and a raft of british pop outfits aged 31 down to 15 yrs.60's pop is still on the radio.they've got 60's on their ipods.nothing to do with me.i didnt play that stuff when they were growing up.they got nothing but soul/funk/jazz.which they also like!!but that is in the uk.i can imagine that isnt the case over there.

**marv2** · 11-01-2011, 12:10 AM

Originally Posted by soulster

Came and went? The British invasion never left. The names just kept changing all the way up to the 90s! David Bowie, Elton John, Hot Chocolate, Led Zeppelin, Yes, Billy Ocean, Bee Gees, Olivia Newton-John, AC/DC [[yes, all three were actually Brits) The Foundations, Tony Macaulay, Robin Trower, The Moody Blues, Thompson Twins, Lisa Stansfield, Adele, Tom Jones, Billy Idol, Average White Band...the list is almost endless!

Ok let me clarify. What I meant when I said the British Invasion sort of came and went, I was referring to the era of 1964-67 roughly. That was the time frame of when just about any British act that could carry a tune and had a song with catchy lyrics were very popular in the States. After 1967 and the "Summer of Love" things seem to change musically. I did not mean to infer that any British artist that came along after that initial thrust was just not popular. Just as I never understood when people lump every R&B/Soul act into the "Motown" category. All those folks you mentioned are good, very good, but they are not viewed as being a part of the 1960's "British Invasion". Follow me?

**marv2** · 11-01-2011, 12:12 AM

Originally Posted by bradsupremes

The same can be said about the British Invasion. Aside from the Beatles and the Rolling Stones, no one in their 20's and 30's would know who the Kinks, Manfred Mann, Herman & the Hermits or the Animals were. They probably wouldn't know if they were British or not.

The British Invasion had individuals that inspired groups to follow. The Motown Sound was a particular sound that inspired how of popular music was recorded, written, performed and should sound.

Exactly Brad! You can also add in Petula Clark, Marianne Faithfull, Dusty Springfield, Chad & Jeremy, etc,etc.

**juicefree20** · 11-01-2011, 12:13 AM

I'd say both, but as I think about it, wasn't it the glowing words of many of the British artists that helped to turn a few heads across the pond?

Wouldn't it be fair to say that the acceptance & enthusiasm shown by the British acts for Motown acts helped toopen that part of the world for Motown?

**marv2** · 11-01-2011, 12:17 AM

Originally Posted by juicefree20

I'd say both, but as I think about it, wasn't it the glowing words of many of the British artists that helped to turn a few heads across the pond?

Wouldn't it be fair to say that the acceptance & enthusiasm shown by the British acts for Motown acts helped toopen that part of the world for Motown?

Yes that is very true! From what I recalled groups like The Four Tops were very,very well received when they toured the U.K. The reaction they received was probably stronger than that here in the U.S.

**westgrandboulevard** · 11-01-2011, 06:46 AM

marv

I'm in the UK and yes, you are quite right.

Even the local concerts I attended, the management more than once just stopped the Four Tops show in mid-performance, simply because the audience had left their seats and flocked down to the front of the stage, sometimes joining the Tops on stage.

**marv2** · 11-01-2011, 12:37 PM

Originally Posted by westgrandboulevard

marv

I'm in the UK and yes, you are quite right.

Even the local concerts I attended, the management more than once just stopped the Four Tops show in mid-performance, simply because the audience had left their seats and flocked down to the front of the stage, sometimes joining the Tops on stage.

Thank you westgrandboulevard! I was pretty sure that was the case.

**westgrandboulevard** · 11-01-2011, 02:13 PM

marv

In the early 70s, the Four Tops gave a show at the Royal Albert Hall.

At one point, they finished a song, took their bows, and left the stage..only to return.........leading the Supremes, in glittering white gowns..to sing together...

The reaction was so ecstatic,I wondered if the roof was going to come down....

I doubt that anyone else who was there will have forgotten it.

**marv2** · 11-01-2011, 02:19 PM

Originally Posted by westgrandboulevard

marv

In the early 70s, the Four Tops gave a show at the Royal Albert Hall.

At one point, they finished a song, took their bows, and left the stage..only to return.........leading the Supremes, in glittering white gowns..to sing together...

The reaction was so ecstatic,I wondered if the roof was going to come down....

I doubt that anyone else who was there will have forgotten it.

Wow! That must have been something! One of my few regrets is that I never had the opportunity to see the Four Tops and Supremes together in concert. There are only a few pictures I've seen with them together onstage.

**westgrandboulevard** · 11-01-2011, 02:37 PM

marv

My recall is not absolutely total [[it was so long ago..!) but I feel they did sing at least one song, "You gotta have love in your heart", and maybe more....?

Perhaps someone else would help out here...

As for pictures...I don't know if you are familiar with the Royal Albert Hall in Kensington, London [[named after Queen Victoria's beloved husband Albert..), but it is, by UK standards, very large. The acoustics are still pretty good, and it often used for televised events.

I was up in the circle but, being younger, my eyesight was sharper...so although I was not close to the Tops/Supremes, it still represented a 'Royal' spectacle.

It is true that UK fans look upon Motown stars almost as royalty, in terms of showbusiness. There was, there is, a feeling of great affection and thanks for so many, many happy memories.

When the curtains drew back to reveal the Supremes on stage at the Royal Variety Command Performance [[in the same gowns they wore for their 'Farewell' performance, unless someone can correct me...) the reviews said a huge wave of applause greeted them, 'as though they were old friends'. And so it remains.

Now, if the USA were in the British Empire [[as if!! LOL!!!), it would be Sir Berry Gordy by now...

I believe it would be at this time that the two groups appeared on UK TV 'Top Of The Pops' to perform 'YGHLIYH'..and there are some photos around of them doing just that....

**marv2** · 11-01-2011, 07:07 PM

Sir Berry Gordy Jr! It has a nice ring to it LOL!!!! Off topic for one moment, would happen to know if it is possible to watch "Coronation Street" on the internet?

**soulster** · 11-01-2011, 07:19 PM

Originally Posted by marv2

Ok let me clarify. What I meant when I said the British Invasion sort of came and went, I was referring to the era of 1964-67 roughly. That was the time frame of when just about any British act that could carry a tune and had a song with catchy lyrics were very popular in the States. After 1967 and the "Summer of Love" things seem to change musically. I did not mean to infer that any British artist that came along after that initial thrust was just not popular. Just as I never understood when people lump every R&B/Soul act into the "Motown" category. All those folks you mentioned are good, very good, but they are not viewed as being a part of the 1960's "British Invasion". Follow me?

I follow you. But, what I was saying is that the British invasion never ended! It just kept going!

And, yeah, I really hate how people lump all 60s soul music into a Motown bag. that's because the ones that do really didn't listen to much R&B, or care about it, and so they don't know any different. It's the same people who think all Black music in the 70s was disco, and that all Black people listen to rap. But, they'll go into a rage if you don't differentiate between hard and soft rock, prog rock, punk, and pop.

Originally Posted by westgrandboulevard

marv

I'm in the UK and yes, you are quite right.

Even the local concerts I attended, the management more than once just stopped the Four Tops show in mid-performance, simply because the audience had left their seats and flocked down to the front of the stage, sometimes joining the Tops on stage.

Just curious since this topic has expanded to the four guys: how did the U.K. the ABC/Dunhill era of the Four Tops, starting with "Keeper Of The Castle"?