Mary Wells Unsung

[smark21]

Anyone else catch the Mary Wells Unsung episode last night? What I came away with was that she made a lot of bad decisions in her life, foremost getting out of her [[admittedly) unfair Motown contract in 1964 just as the company was hitting its stride. Mary Wilson, Janie Bradford and Claudette Robinson were among those interviewed.

Also caught the Debarge Unsung. That was a sad one as well.

[randy_russi]

I thought they did a good job. However, there were errors! They showed a photo of Mary next to Mickey Stevenson
and said it was her first husband Herman Griffin. Later, they did show a photo of Mary with Dick Clark, Martha &
the Vandellas, and Herman, but didn't identify him.
They also incorrectly stated that her second husband, Cecil Womack, wanted her to only be a domestic wife and
a mother. That is totally false! Cecil was behind her as an artist 100 percent. He wrote and produced music
with her.
The TV clips were mostly from Where The Action Is, however, the announcer made a statement about Motown
having Mary surrounded by white college kids, which was from Where The Action Is and a TV performance
after she had left Motown so the company had nothing to do with that set up.
The My Guy performance was from the Steve Allen Show.
Anyway, Peter Benjaminson was interviewed [[he's writing a bio on her) as was Steve Bergsman, who tried
to do a bio with her before she passed away. Her friend Maye was also interviewed as well as Curtis and
Friendly Womack and Mary & Cecil's daughter Stacey Noel, amd their sons Meech [[Cecil Jr.) and Shorty [[Harry).

[REDHOT]

I also thought TVONE,did a good job,and yes they left out some things,like her hit DEAR LOVER,[[i love that song)i wish TVONE had interviewed SMOKEY and BERRY,MISS MARY WELLS LIFE STORY,would be great,if it was made into a MOVIE,what a sad STORY.
Please stay positive

[rod_rick]

Would Motown have renegotiated Mary's concert to keep her from leaving the company. Did anyone ever leave Motown in the early days without signing their rights away?
Pretty good show but their were a lot of things left out. It would be nice if TVOne would have a unedited version online.

[Motown Eddie]

Anyone else catch the Mary Wells Unsung episode last night? What I came away with was that she made a lot of bad decisions in her life, foremost getting out of her [[admittedly) unfair Motown contract in 1964 just as the company was hitting its stride. Mary Wilson, Janie Bradford and Claudette Robinson were among those interviewed.

Also caught the Debarge Unsung. That was a sad one as well.

I saw the Mary Wells "UnSung" episode and I truly enjoyed it. Every time I watch an episode of the series, I learn something new about the artist and the Mary Wells episode was no exception. And while the show missed a couple of things like the duets with Marvin Gaye and her brief time with Atlantic Records in the mid '60s, it was still more than worthwhile.

[ladonna]

Although, I have never been a dyed in the wool Weller, I do appreciate her two major hits: Two Lovers and My Guy. I don't find her sound to be overly distinctive, nor wash she overly glamorous or charismatic; however, she did rock it on out on Bye Bye Baby. After hearing for years that Motown had campaigned against her, or that DJs were reluctant to play her recordings after she had left Motown, if the clip Unsung offered is an indication of her output after the Motown departure, it was evident to me that the real problem was material; this stuff simply wasn't on par with her Smokey collaborations.

[Motown Eddie]

Would Motown have renegotiated Mary's concert to keep her from leaving the company. Did anyone ever leave Motown in the early days without signing their rights away?
Pretty good show but their were a lot of things left out. It would be nice if TVOne would have a unedited version online.

There was now way that Motown Records could've matched the deal that 20th Century Fox Records had offered Mary Wells in 1964 [[not to mention the promise of a film career). It's an absolute shame that Mary had to sign away her rights to her royalties in order to leave Motown. And yes, it was a great episode of "UnSung". They had to leave out some things [[like the duets with Marvin Gaye and her brief stint with Atlantic Records in the mid '60s) in order to get the show to fit the hour-long format but it was great to see the interviews with Claudette Robinson, Mary Wilson, Brenda Holloway, Janie Bradford and Mary Wells' children.

[ladonna]

It was mentioned that Mary sued Motown for unpaid royalities and received an undiclosed six figure amount.

[Motown Eddie]

Would Motown have renegotiated Mary's concert to keep her from leaving the company. Did anyone ever leave Motown in the early days without signing their rights away?
Pretty good show but their were a lot of things left out. It would be nice if TVOne would have a unedited version online.

Another thing to consider is that Berry Gordy Jr. was an optomist. While he was disapponted to lose Mary Wells, he knew that he had The Supremes waiting in the wings [[and according to Mary Wilson's book "Dreamgirl", she heard Berry telling people that "The Supremes are the ones that are going to make the company").

[kenneth]

Although, I have never been a dyed in the wool Weller, I do appreciate her two major hits: Two Lovers and My Guy. I don't find her sound to be overly distinctive, nor wash she overly glamorous or charismatic; however, she did rock it on out on Bye Bye Baby. After hearing for years that Motown had campaigned against her, or that DJs were reluctant to play her recordings after she had left Motown, if the clip Unsung offered is an indication of her output after the Motown departure, it was evident to me that the real problem was material; this stuff simply wasn't on par with her Smokey collaborations.

I think that's accurate, for the most part, but I do think the Atlantic/Atco material, which it sounds like they didn't include on the show, better than the 20th Century Fox sides. I have always liked Wells and enjoyed all her 60s output. The Jubilee sides are especially interesting because they sound more "unfinished" and more soulful than the Atco or Fox material. But I will say that after I've listened to most of it, I'm hard pressed to pick a few favorites. Likely at the time, they sounded even less original than they do now. I doubt there had to be a campaign not to play her records. The few standouts such as "Dear Lover" did get some decent airplay, anyway.

[Motown Eddie]

It was mentioned that Mary sued Motown for unpaid royalities and received an undiclosed six figure amount.

Yes, Mary Wells did sue Motown for a six-figure amount [[and this was covered on the Mary Wells "UnSung" episode) and yet this was just before her death from throat cancer.

[ladonna]

Mhm, it was reassuring to learn that the music industry held her in such high esteem that it rallied around to come to her support.

[skooldem1]

It was a good show. Very interesting. The one thing I didn't feel was necessary was the Diana Ross angle.

[kenneth]

It was a good show. Very interesting. The one thing I didn't feel was necessary was the Diana Ross angle.

I guess they can never leave that out of any Motown story!

[randy_russi]

One of her best post-Motown records, "Two Lovers History" on Jubilee [[B side of "The Doctor"), written & produced by
Mary & Cecil Womack. This is a GREAT soulful record! Excellent song too! Should've been a major hit.

[jeff9nyc]

It was a good show. Very interesting. The one thing I didn't feel was necessary was the Diana Ross angle.

I didn't see the show and as soon as it's up on YouTube I hope that someone posts the link[[s) on this site so I can see it. As far as the "Diana Ross angle" without seeing the show I can't comment on their take directly, but I will say in general...things happen in life beyond one person's control. Things fall into place for a number of reasons and situations fall into place by a series of events – one affecting the other. As I'm typing this I can actually hear Mary's voice on many of the Supremes hits. Can't you imagine her on "Where Did Our Love Go?," "Baby Love," "Stop In The Name Of Love," and some of the later hits like, "Love Is Here And Now You're Gone," "The Happening," "Reflections," etc. Actually, I can imagine Mary Well's voice doing a good lead job on any of Diana Ross and the Supremes recordings. But, Diana brings that edge, that cat-like nasal sound that just cuts through vs. Mary's more mellow well-rounded sound. Diana also brought the style, the feline grace and yes, sex, to her performance that really gave her an edge in the whole music business. She had "IT." Like her or not, that "IT" along with the Supremes was an unbeatable combination. No wonder Berry Gordy built a whole record company around it. He was a very smart man and most of the times made very good decisions for Motown. Would the Supremes and Diana have gotten the same breaks had Mary Wells remained with Motown? Who knows?! It's like saying would we be in a better place today if Al Gore had become president in 2000? We can only guess. That's not how things went down.

[kenneth]

One of her best post-Motown records, "Two Lovers History" on Jubilee [[B side of "The Doctor"), written & produced by
Mary & Cecil Womack. This is a GREAT soulful record! Excellent song too! Should've been a major hit.

There's a great CD retrospective of her Jubilee work. Includes the whole "Serving Up Some Soul" LP as well as the entire unreleased "Come Together" LP, plus singles and unreleased sides. Very worth buying.

[randy_russi]

In response to the Diana Ross angle--it was stated that the Supremes were kept on the label for a few years without
hits due to the success of Wells. This is true, but it was also the success of any of the hitmakers that afforded
the Supremes the ability to keep trying for a major hit.
Yes, I do think the Supremes would have become big hitmakers even if Mary had stayed at the label. Although she
did work with HDH, Smokey was her main writer/producer.

[marv2]

I didn't see the show and as soon as it's up on YouTube I hope that someone posts the link[[s) on this site so I can see it. As far as the "Diana Ross angle" without seeing the show I can't comment on their take directly, but I will say in general...things happen in life beyond one person's control. Things fall into place for a number of reasons and situations fall into place by a series of events – one affecting the other. As I'm typing this I can actually hear Mary's voice on many of the Supremes hits. Can't you imagine her on "Where Did Our Love Go?," "Baby Love," "Stop In The Name Of Love," and some of the later hits like, "Love Is Here And Now You're Gone," "The Happening," "Reflections," etc. Actually, I can imagine Mary Well's voice doing a good lead job on any of Diana Ross and the Supremes recordings. But, Diana brings that edge, that cat-like nasal sound that just cuts through vs. Mary's more mellow well-rounded sound. Diana also brought the style, the feline grace and yes, sex, to her performance that really gave her an edge in the whole music business. She had "IT." Like her or not, that "IT" along with the Supremes was an unbeatable combination. No wonder Berry Gordy built a whole record company around it. He was a very smart man and most of the times made very good decisions for Motown. Would the Supremes and Diana have gotten the same breaks had Mary Wells remained with Motown? Who knows?! It's like saying would we be in a better place today if Al Gore had become president in 2000? We can only guess. That's not how things went down.

Jeff you can see the entire show here until that guy posts it on Youtube:

http://www.tvoneonline.com/shows/sho...id=902&id=3430

[marv2]

In response to the Diana Ross angle--it was stated that the Supremes were kept on the label for a few years without
hits due to the success of Wells. This is true, but it was also the success of any of the hitmakers that afforded
the Supremes the ability to keep trying for a major hit.
Yes, I do think the Supremes would have become big hitmakers even if Mary had stayed at the label. Although she
did work with HDH, Smokey was her main writer/producer.

Randy, so true! That is the point I made in the Gladys Horton thread regarding the time Diana demanded that Berry Gordy go find Gladys and have her sit upfront at the Supremes initial Copa gig. The Marvelettes early success allowed Motown to afford Artist Development,etc for most of their artists, of which the Supremes were prime benefactors!!!

[Motown_M_1056]

In response to the Diana Ross angle--it was stated that the Supremes were kept on the label for a few years without
hits due to the success of Wells. This is true, but it was also the success of any of the hitmakers that afforded
the Supremes the ability to keep trying for a major hit.
Yes, I do think the Supremes would have become big hitmakers even if Mary had stayed at the label. Although she
did work with HDH, Smokey was her main writer/producer.

I am a Mary Wells fan, hence the forum name. I liked the Unsung show though there were errors and things left out. I liked what Brenda Holloway said about Mary being "more than a vocalist," but "an experience"' that once you had it, you wanted more. That was absolutely perfect. I've loved Mary all of my life and will probably listen to her on my last day.
THE only thing that annoyed me was Mary Wilson's comment about newer generations not knowing or having forgotten Mary Wells. To that I say: Who is having a book written about her? Who was the subject of that Unsung episode?

Mary Wells, the first queen of Motown, that's who.

[RossHolloway]

Randy, so true! That is the point I made in the Gladys Horton thread regarding the time Diana demanded that Berry Gordy go find Gladys and have her sit upfront at the Supremes initial Copa gig. The Marvelettes early success allowed Motown to afford Artist Development,etc for most of their artists, of which the Supremes were prime benefactors!!!

Well the same could also be said of the Temptations, or Stevie Wonder post-Fingertip - pre-Uptight or any group that went through a dry spell after a big hit. The Supreme's weren't the only ones to benefit from the early success of Wells or the Miracles. Did Mary Wells open the door for other Motown acts? Certainly, just like the Miracles opened doors for her and the Supremes did for acts that came along after them. For once can't we just stick to the talent and joy of Mary Wells and the great music that she made without turing it into a Supremes vs. the world thread?

[RossHolloway]

I am a Mary Wells fan, hence the forum name. I liked the Unsung show though there were errors and things left out. I liked what Brenda Holloway said about Mary being more than a vocalist, but an experience that once you had it, you wanted more That was absolutely perfect. I've loved Mary all of my life and will probably listen to her on my last day.
THE only thing that annoyed me was Mary Wilson's comment about ne generations not knowing or having forgotten Mary Wells. To that I say: Who is having a book written about her/ Who was the subject of that Unsung episode?

Mary Wells left a musical legacy for people to look back on. While she may not be as well know as she was say in 1964, here we all sit and write about her. Her legacy lives on, and I'm sure there are hundereds of artists that were popular during their time that are largely forgotten now in 2011. While it may be sad to many, it's all a part of life.

[marv2]

Well the same could also be said of the Temptations, or Stevie Wonder post-Fingertip - pre-Uptight or any group that went through a dry spell after a big hit. The Supreme's weren't the only ones to benefit from the early success of Wells or the Miracles. Did Mary Wells open the door for other Motown acts? Certainly, just like the Miracles opened doors for her and the Supremes did for acts that came along after them. For once can't we just stick to the talent and joy of Mary Wells and the great music that she made without turing it into a Supremes vs. the world thread?

Yeah.....BUT! None of those artists you cited wanted to rub Gladys Horton's face in it; the Supremes lead singer Diana Ross wanted to do just that once the group made it to the Copa. You are correct and I think I did mention that all of the Classic Motown acts benefitted from the success of the "Motown Pioneers".

[marv2]

I am a Mary Wells fan, hence the forum name. I liked the Unsung show though there were errors and things left out. I liked what Brenda Holloway said about Mary being "more than a vocalist," but "an experience"' that once you had it, you wanted more. That was absolutely perfect. I've loved Mary all of my life and will probably listen to her on my last day.
THE only thing that annoyed me was Mary Wilson's comment about newer generations not knowing or having forgotten Mary Wells. To that I say: Who is having a book written about her? Who was the subject of that Unsung episode?

Mary Wells, the first queen of Motown, that's who.

I understand where you're coming from and I also understand what Mary Wilson was saying. I don't know your age or anything, but it's like for me being a teenager in the 70's, I would not have known much about artists that were very popular in say the 1920's or 30's , 50 years earlier to my teenager years. Fast forward to 2011 and the youth today would not know much about the great artists of the 50's and 60's.

Why we as a society give so much importance to what the youth culture thinks is beyond me.

[kenneth]

I understand where you're coming from and I also understand what Mary Wilson was saying. I don't know your age or anything, but it's like for me being a teenager in the 70's, I would not have known much about artists that were very popular in say the 1920's or 30's , 50 years earlier to my teenager years. Fast forward to 2011 and the youth today would not know much about the great artists of the 50's and 60's.

Why we as a society give so much importance to what the youth culture thinks is beyond me.

That's right! As someone smarter than me once said, it's too bad youth is wasted on the young!

[marv2]

That's right! As someone smarter than me once said, it's too bad youth is wasted on the young!

Totally wasted! Man, If I knew what I know now and was still my 23 year old self? FURGITABOUTITTT!!!!! LOL!!!!

[RossHolloway]

Yeah.....BUT! None of those artists you cited wanted to rub Gladys Horton's face in it; the Supremes lead singer Diana Ross wanted to do just that once the group made it to the Copa. You are correct and I think I did mention that all of the Classic Motown acts benefitted from the success of the "Motown Pioneers".

I thought this was a thread about Mary Wells?

[Roberta75]

I thought this was a thread about Mary Wells?

He brings everything back to Diana Ross.

[marv2]

I thought this was a thread about Mary Wells?

Sure it is! I was a little disappointed that they made no mention of that nice album Mary Wells recorded with Marvin Gaye in 1964. My favorite was "Once Upon A Time". They sounded so very good together. Hey, that was the name of the album, I think...."Together". I have it, but haven't listened to it in a very long time.

[marv2]

He brings everything back to Diana Ross.

But Diane is so groovy....dontcha love her? LOL!

[Roberta75]

But Diane is so groovy....dontcha love her? LOL!

I really like Diana's music and she's superb in concert IMO. Unlike you I don't have a 24/7 obsession with Miss Diana Ross.

[marv2]

I really like Diana's music and she's superb in concert IMO. Unlike you I don't have a 24/7 obsession with Miss Diana Ross.

Ahemmmmm.......I'm thinking about Diane right now...hehehehehe!

[REDHOT]

Let's pray for a movie on,MARY WELLS THE FRIST QUEEN OF MOTOWN,who you you like to see play,MISS WELLS?
Please stay positive

[kenneth]

Let's pray for a movie on,MARY WELLS THE FRIST QUEEN OF MOTOWN,who you you like to see play,MISS WELLS?
Please stay positive

Someone like Fantasia would be great.

[marv2]

Let's pray for a movie on,MARY WELLS THE FRIST QUEEN OF MOTOWN,who you you like to see play,MISS WELLS?

Please stay positive

Redhot, that would be great. My first thought is of Taraj Henson in the role.

[marv2]

Someone like Fantasia would be great.

True ,true. Would Toni Braxton be a long shot?

[carlo]

I watched the Mary Wells UnSung show online. I really enjoyed learning about Mary Wells and her story. She is one of the few Motown artists I've never really followed. Of course, that was not something I did intentionally. I never knew much about her and only knew her hits, "My Guy", "Two Lovers" and "Gigalo". I do agree with Mary Wilson. To me, Mary Wells has seemed to be unsung. Yes, perhaps she is not as unsung as other artists from the 60's, but in comparison to other Motown artists, I think she does tend to be overlooked, just like The Marvelettes, who were also there in the beginning at Motown. I never grew up in the 60's. I grew up listening to the oldies station in my family home, so of course I heard "My Guy" all the time, but it wasn't until today that I've really developed a true appreciation for her. I am going to make it my goal to delve deeper into her musical catalog. I look forward to reading Peter Benjaminson's book.

Kenneth: What is the name of the compilation you had mentioned?

[carlo]

Kenneth: What is the name of the compilation you had mentioned?

Nevermind, I found it. Thanks for mentioning it, Ken. "The Complete Jubilee Sessions":

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Complete-Jub...535331&sr=8-21

[kenneth]

Nevermind, I found it. Thanks for mentioning it, Ken. "The Complete Jubilee Sessions":

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Complete-Jub...535331&sr=8-21

Glad you found it, Carlo. Seems to have gone up in price on Amazon, but I think still worth it. These just don't seem to stay in print long, I guess. Maybe you can find a more reasonable price if you start with froogle.com. I've often found good prices there with their "comparison shopping."

Actually, I take that back. Much more reasonably priced on Amazon.co.uk than on Amazon.com.

Amazon.com does have an image of the track listing, and one listener's review, if you want to check that out, however.

[nabob]

. . . . I do appreciate her two major hits: Two Lovers and My Guy. . . . . . . if the clip Unsung offered is an indication of her output after the Motown departure, it was evident to me that the real problem was material; this stuff simply wasn't on par with her Smokey collaborations.

What about You Beat Me To the Punch, The One Who Really Loves You, You Lost the Sweetest Boy, What's So Easy For Two, etc. All of these songs rocked back in my days of the early 60s New York City. I don't feel the likes of Never, Never Leave Me & Me Without You from the 20th Century output to be inferior material or performances. The missing ingredient was promotion.

In response to the Diana Ross angle . . . . Yes, I do think the Supremes would have become big hitmakers even if Mary had stayed at the label. Although she did work with HDH, Smokey was her main writer/producer.

The program gave the indication that there was a continuous progression without missing a beat between My Guy and Where Did Our Love Go? WDOLG was probably recorded before Mary Wells departed. By chance, the Supremes "forced" to record a song none of the other artists wanted that happily found its own niche in a big way. My Guy was a hit in the Spring of 1964 and Mary was gone by the time Where Did Our Love Go? began to garner attention in the Summer as the Supremes toured with Dick Clark's Caravan of Stars. These were very loosely related events.

[luke]

Great show, though some writers have said she made some great records after Motown. As Mary was on UNSUNG, and someone mentioned the Diana angle and on the show Nelson George a superb music wirter brought it up, Mary was the trendsetter at Motown for many of the female artists. I loved what someone said at the end of the show that Mary smiled throught it all and she survived so much and seemed to be such a loving, well intentioned mother.

[marv2]

Great show, though some writers have said she made some great records after Motown. As Mary was on UNSUNG, and someone mentioned the Diana angle and on the show Nelson George a superb music wirter brought it up, Mary was the trendsetter at Motown for many of the female artists. I loved what someone said at the end of the show that Mary smiled throught it all and she survived so much and seemed to be such a loving, well intentioned mother.

She was also a very goodlooking woman. She never looked down or got nasty with people. I missed out on meeting her in 1990 by just a few weeks because at the time she had become ill and had to cancel a scheduled trip to Detroit. Someone made this huge and mean huge get well card for her that I and everyone signed.

[marv2]

Great show, though some writers have said she made some great records after Motown. As Mary was on UNSUNG, and someone mentioned the Diana angle and on the show Nelson George a superb music wirter brought it up, Mary was the trendsetter at Motown for many of the female artists. I loved what someone said at the end of the show that Mary smiled throught it all and she survived so much and seemed to be such a loving, well intentioned mother.

I agree about Nelson George. He is excellent!

[luke]

Very nice Marv. They also left out a quote from the former head of 20th Century "if she was naieve enough to believe that we would put her in movies than she deserved what she got!" From a Motown book. Very nice fellow!

[loveblind]

That clip of her on the Steve Allen show was pure amazement!

[stephanie]

Great Unsung! I loved her material after she left Motown it just needed promotion. I had no idea about the problems she had with the Womacks poor thing tried to commit suicide. Great learning her story. RIP Mary you are not forgotten.

[loveblind]

[marv2]

Very nice Marv. They also left out a quote from the former head of 20th Century "if she was naieve enough to believe that we would put her in movies than she deserved what she got!" From a Motown book. Very nice fellow!

Hey, you know what? I had never that quote before now, but had heard that 20th Century promised her movie roles before. When I heard that repeated in Unsung, I immediately thought the same thing! It was 1964, they were competing with other record companies like Motown..........and they lied to get her!

[marv2]

Great Unsung! I loved her material after she left Motown it just needed promotion. I had no idea about the problems she had with the Womacks poor thing tried to commit suicide. Great learning her story. RIP Mary you are not forgotten.

Stephanie, they went a bit "light" on her "Womack experience" I promise you.............