The Supremes go from girls to women in months

**floyjoy678** · 04-22-2024, 09:03 PM

I'm always amazed at how much it seemed like the Supremes turned into women practically overnight when Cindy came into the group. It's so subtle but noticeable. I watched DMF doing the Happening on Sullivan and then watched DMC doing Reflections on Hollywood Palace just a few months later and it's crazy how more mature they seem.

I don't know if it has to do with Cindy being older than the original trio or what but she added a sense of womanhood to the group.

**RanRan79** · 04-22-2024, 10:52 PM

I agree. I've said before that with the original trio, you had three friends from the same neighborhood who had been together, by 1967, for nearly a decade. You can literally watch them evolve from sort of girl next doors, 64-65, to young ladies with some life experience, 66-67. The three of them together had a certain kind of charm, youthful charm, that really enhanced their image.

Then Flo is out and Cindy is in and lets be real: the Supremes with Flo are an entirely different entity than DRATS. Prior to, the Supremes were a real trio. Yes, Diana was positioned more prominently, but when you watch most of their performances, the interviews, look at the photo shoots, listen to the live shows, it was all about the group. Diana was sort of icing on the cake, but the cake is always best when eaten in totality.

On the other hand, DRATS was all about Diana Ross. She was the cake and the icing, with Mary and Cindy more or less cake toppers. Lol The interesting thing is that the DRATS trio did some fantastic group work, like the Fats Waller medley, but there was no mistaking who the focal point is supposed to be. And while Diana's position was moved even further ahead of Mary and Cindy, the act became more sophisticated, more sleek, more mature, and I do think that is owed in part to Cindy, who was quite a bit more polished than Florence when it came to movement.

Honestly, with Flo's departure, the Supremes became something else, which is why I almost always refer to mid 67 thru Jan 70 as DRATS and not the Supremes. Even with the group still 2/3 of the originals [[not counting Barbara for this), something was missing when Flo was gone. But still, with Cindy's joining, the act gained something else. But the Supremes would never be THE SUPREMES again.

**sup_fan** · 04-23-2024, 11:15 AM

Originally Posted by RanRan79

I agree. I've said before that with the original trio, you had three friends from the same neighborhood who had been together, by 1967, for nearly a decade. You can literally watch them evolve from sort of girl next doors, 64-65, to young ladies with some life experience, 66-67. The three of them together had a certain kind of charm, youthful charm, that really enhanced their image.

Then Flo is out and Cindy is in and lets be real: the Supremes with Flo are an entirely different entity than DRATS. Prior to, the Supremes were a real trio. Yes, Diana was positioned more prominently, but when you watch most of their performances, the interviews, look at the photo shoots, listen to the live shows, it was all about the group. Diana was sort of icing on the cake, but the cake is always best when eaten in totality.

On the other hand, DRATS was all about Diana Ross. She was the cake and the icing, with Mary and Cindy more or less cake toppers. Lol The interesting thing is that the DRATS trio did some fantastic group work, like the Fats Waller medley, but there was no mistaking who the focal point is supposed to be. And while Diana's position was moved even further ahead of Mary and Cindy, the act became more sophisticated, more sleek, more mature, and I do think that is owed in part to Cindy, who was quite a bit more polished than Florence when it came to movement.

Honestly, with Flo's departure, the Supremes became something else, which is why I almost always refer to mid 67 thru Jan 70 as DRATS and not the Supremes. Even with the group still 2/3 of the originals [[not counting Barbara for this), something was missing when Flo was gone. But still, with Cindy's joining, the act gained something else. But the Supremes would never be THE SUPREMES again.

i think there are more phases than simply the change in 67

when the girls first became huge, they were very much beautiful and glamorous but still retained a "girl next door" image. even when they're accomplishing major feats like the Copa, Lincoln Center, endless Sullivan appearances.

Look at them doing Itching on Sullivan versus YCHL on Sullivan. there's a major change between those two performances which were only separated by a couple of months. when they did Itching and More, they performed beautifully but they still had that "teen" aspect about them. there's a little bit of "girls playing dress up" to them

when they came back in Sept for YCHL and the Symphony medley, there was a major change. they were now highly experience showmen [[or showwomen lol). their level of sophistication had catapulted up. they're look with the more mod wigs, the high glam sequin gowns. they're definitely not longer playing dressup. there's no more "approachable teen girl next door." they're superstars.

i do agree that when they because DRATS, they advanced it to still yet another level. Diana wasn't a lead singer. she was the mistress of the ceremonies. she was no longer just so excited and thrilled that, by golly, the show was just wonderful and the audience loved it. she knows the show will be fantastic and there's a mature sense of ownership about it now.

**BayouMotownMan** · 04-23-2024, 01:30 PM

Excellent observation Floyjoy

It seems to me that when Cindy joined it was for no other reason than to prepare Diana for solo stardom with Mary and Cindy as backing scenery. Therefore the jolt to the public would be softened. Diana went overboard with makeup, wigs, and padding. She was stick thin and needed fake boobs and butt. Mary and Cindy were naturally curvaceous so Ross had to compare with them.

The glamour image was really Diana's. The other Supremes had to go along with it. Florence and Jean had problems doing this. But the American public bought it.

**marybrewster** · 04-23-2024, 01:38 PM

There was a big change visually from "The Supremes" to DRATS:

The wigs were bigger. The makeup was heavier. The lashes were longer. The gowns were sequinsier. A far cry from the homemade dresses and Woolworth strands of pearls from just 3 or 4 years earlier.

Gone were Diane, Mae, and Blondie; the three "sisters" crowded around a microphone. It was DianA; centerstage with 87 feet of cord and Mary and Cindy relegated to a scripted "hi" or "hello"; standing a press-on nails length away from the orchestra.

**RanRan79** · 04-23-2024, 02:51 PM

Originally Posted by sup_fan

i think there are more phases than simply the change in 67

when the girls first became huge, they were very much beautiful and glamorous but still retained a "girl next door" image. even when they're accomplishing major feats like the Copa, Lincoln Center, endless Sullivan appearances.

Look at them doing Itching on Sullivan versus YCHL on Sullivan. there's a major change between those two performances which were only separated by a couple of months. when they did Itching and More, they performed beautifully but they still had that "teen" aspect about them. there's a little bit of "girls playing dress up" to them

when they came back in Sept for YCHL and the Symphony medley, there was a major change. they were now highly experience showmen [[or showwomen lol). their level of sophistication had catapulted up. they're look with the more mod wigs, the high glam sequin gowns. they're definitely not longer playing dressup. there's no more "approachable teen girl next door." they're superstars.

i do agree that when they because DRATS, they advanced it to still yet another level. Diana wasn't a lead singer. she was the mistress of the ceremonies. she was no longer just so excited and thrilled that, by golly, the show was just wonderful and the audience loved it. she knows the show will be fantastic and there's a mature sense of ownership about it now.

Sup, we're saying the same thing. There was a change between the Supremes of 64/65, from the girls next door, to the more womanly Supremes of 66/67.

**RanRan79** · 04-23-2024, 02:56 PM

Originally Posted by BayouMotownMan

Excellent observation Floyjoy

It seems to me that when Cindy joined it was for no other reason than to prepare Diana for solo stardom with Mary and Cindy as backing scenery. Therefore the jolt to the public would be softened. Diana went overboard with makeup, wigs, and padding. She was stick thin and needed fake boobs and butt. Mary and Cindy were naturally curvaceous so Ross had to compare with them.

The glamour image was really Diana's. The other Supremes had to go along with it. Florence and Jean had problems doing this. But the American public bought it.

Diana's eventual exit was very strategic, and I do think that included Cindy. Flo's replacement could not be another Florence, someone outspoken and with a big personality. Whoever she was would have to be willing to play third string. Gordy couldn't afford another Supreme bucking him and his decisions, not when Operation Diana Ross Solo Star was ready to commence. Cindy's sweet disposition and laidback attitude, coupled with her superior rhythm skills over Flo, was vital.

**RanRan79** · 04-23-2024, 02:57 PM

Originally Posted by marybrewster

There was a big change visually from "The Supremes" to DRATS:

The wigs were bigger. The makeup was heavier. The lashes were longer. The gowns were sequinsier. A far cry from the homemade dresses and Woolworth strands of pearls from just 3 or 4 years earlier.

Gone were Diane, Mae, and Blondie; the three "sisters" crowded around a microphone. It was DianA; centerstage with 87 feet of cord and Mary and Cindy relegated to a scripted "hi" or "hello"; standing a press-on nails length away from the orchestra.

All of this, especially "sequinsier". Lol