What percent of LOVE HANGOVER's success do you credit to Ross herself??

[sup_fan]

I hate the instrumental break on the single version, but don’t think the song had potential to climb much higher.
I really wish BIM had contained a killer dance track. “Your Love Is So Good For Me” is pleasant enough but nothing more. The 12inch version at least had some oomph.

agree. YLISGFM is fine but relatively generic. there's nothing generic about LH. similarly with the Sups. I think Where Do I Go From Here is nice enough but any group could have sung it. whereas Walking, Let Yourself Go - that was a sound. something specific to Scherrie and the Sups.

maybe that's one of the problems with Diana. probably her most identifiable sound during these years was her big, gushy ballad - Mahogany, TMITM, I Thought It Took, etc. LH is so great but it's not a sound. it's a 1-off. and the rest of the Hal Davis tunes were pretty generic. and also typical motown filler.

then she shifts to Richard Perry. totally different approach and sound. then skipping Ross 78 which is mostly useless, she shifts to A&S. now we're dealing with gospel-infused disco and r&b. then off to the chic organization for a totally different sound with diana 80 - very urban, hip. then back to Masser.

[RanRan79]

completely agree that motown botched the sales and promotion plans for BIM. while it probably would have been a challenge for it to have #1 singles or even top 10 singles, the released struggled to get into top 40!!?!?! that's proof of motown bungled operation

while i mentioned that tunes like Getting Ready for Love and Your Love Is So Good For Me weren't really breaking new ground, i do think the title track of Baby Its Me was something new and fresh from diana. and the new version on the EE is even stronger than the original. it's fun and funky sound, something we'd definitely not heard prior with all the "moody" and ballads stuff she'd done. it's definitely danceable, although clearly not disco. there's really nothing else on the album like it so not sure about what could have been a follow up single, had the title track been the lead. but it definitely makes an interesting discussion point. of course diana was never going to do hardcore funk like Bootsy Collins or Parliament. but maybe a "diana-ified" version of funk could have worked.

I've never cared for the title cut, but admittedly after the first couple of spins of the album when I first purchased it about 20 years ago, I really haven't sat through the entirety of the song. I'll have to give it a listen. That being said, while I didn't care for it, I do think you're right, that the sound of the title cut was pretty fresh and might have been well received by the public.

IMO the worst song on the album was "Your Love Is So Good". For the life of me I can't understand why it was nominated for a Grammy. Had it been shelved, I wouldn't complain.

[sup_fan]

I've never cared for the title cut, but admittedly after the first couple of spins of the album when I first purchased it about 20 years ago, I really haven't sat through the entirety of the song. I'll have to give it a listen. That being said, while I didn't care for it, I do think you're right, that the sound of the title cut was pretty fresh and might have been well received by the public.

IMO the worst song on the album was "Your Love Is So Good". For the life of me I can't understand why it was nominated for a Grammy. Had it been shelved, I wouldn't complain.

i was never really keen on the title track either but on the EE, the refreshed version seemed to pop more. it's funky but there's a bit more life to it than the original IMO.

and i wouldn't say YLISGFM is bad. it's fine enough. it fits the overall album more that Country John or Brass Band.

[RanRan79]

see i think one of the biggest problems isn't that motown wasn't promoting her product. it's that her product was especially weak. You Were the One is clearly the standout on Ross 78 but it's not an indelible classic. it's not LH or The Boss or Mountain or Mahogany. it's a fine enough song, worthy of release on an album and maybe as single release #2 from that album. but it's not a masterpiece. none of the material she was doing at this time is frankly very compelling. none of the Holland material is even close to what they did on the MS&S album. Lovin Livin Givin is fine too but again, no classic. What You Gave Me, For once in my life - meh.

DR needed quality product and she wasn't recording it at this time. once you have quality product, then a solid album package and promotional campaign can follow

Oh some of the single releases were ridiculous, for sure. But I do think had "You Were the One" been released and promoted appropriately, it was a surefire hit. I think it would have done better than "The Boss". I also believe "Summertime Livin" was a lost hit. Especially if it had been released in time to peak during the summer, I believe it would have been popular. I think George or Andy said Diana and others felt strongly about it too, but why it didn't make it out, who knows?

Of the four singles from BIM, I think they were all good choices, except "Your Love". My favorite is "You Got It". I love that one. Looking at their chart placements across the board, on average they all did pretty well considering the botched promotion. I think "The Same Love" was a worthy single and could have been a hit. That being said, at this point, singles were often being treated as promotional tools for the albums, as opposed to the 60s when the albums were often nothing more than filler to capitalize off the single. So with BIM being such a critical success, I don't think the album had to necessarily have a "Love Hangover" type massive hit. I think the album really works on the strength of all the songs together.

[RanRan79]

Although “BIM” is a fine album, i don’t hear any top ten hits. This is where the problem lay, and i assume why the intended follow up was abandoned.
A dance follow up to “Love Hangover” would have served her much better at that point in time, with Motown once again quite clueless as regards career strategy.

I think all the singles- minus "Your Love"- had top 10 potential. Ross78 as a dance album after BIM could have been huge.

[RanRan79]

after love, hangover, I would’ve trotted out. I thought it took a little time again and worked the hell out of it.

I agree. As I understand it, the song was doing fairly well until "Hangover" was rushed out and all the promotion was put behind "Hangover". After "Hangover" peaked, it may have been a good idea to revisit "I Thought It Took a Little Time", which is one of my all time favorite Diana songs.

Speaking of which, some months ago I remarked that my favorite version of "Time" was the one from To Love Again. For some reason I keep erroneously attributing the long version with the studio chatter to To Love Again, but it's the one from the DR76 EE. That's my favorite.

[sup_fan]

Oh some of the single releases were ridiculous, for sure. But I do think had "You Were the One" been released and promoted appropriately, it was a surefire hit. I think it would have done better than "The Boss". I also believe "Summertime Livin" was a lost hit. Especially if it had been released in time to peak during the summer, I believe it would have been popular. I think George or Andy said Diana and others felt strongly about it too, but why it didn't make it out, who knows?

Of the four singles from BIM, I think they were all good choices, except "Your Love". My favorite is "You Got It". I love that one. Looking at their chart placements across the board, on average they all did pretty well considering the botched promotion. I think "The Same Love" was a worthy single and could have been a hit. That being said, at this point, singles were often being treated as promotional tools for the albums, as opposed to the 60s when the albums were often nothing more than filler to capitalize off the single. So with BIM being such a critical success, I don't think the album had to necessarily have a "Love Hangover" type massive hit. I think the album really works on the strength of all the songs together.

i don't disagree You Were The One would have charted well but i don't know that it's really "special." The Boss is special. it was a totally different sound and it totally diana. YWTO is good but i could see any number of artists singing it. heck Wright could have given it to the Sups as a companion number to HMM. and then have had a couple of his tunes on Sup 75 [[assuming the song was even written then). But The Boss is totally diana. can't really hear others singing it.

[sup_fan]

I agree. As I understand it, the song was doing fairly well until "Hangover" was rushed out and all the promotion was put behind "Hangover". After "Hangover" peaked, it may have been a good idea to revisit "I Thought It Took a Little Time", which is one of my all time favorite Diana songs.

Speaking of which, some months ago I remarked that my favorite version of "Time" was the one from To Love Again. For some reason I keep erroneously attributing the long version with the studio chatter to To Love Again, but it's the one from the DR76 EE. That's my favorite.

i don't know how much they'd have been able to resurrect ITITALT. Ain't Nothing But A Maybe or You're Good My Child are strong tracks too that might have done well. obviously nothing like LH but maybe that was the way to go. a soundalike song might have been just never able to pull away from LH.

After You is another stunning tune on the album but i don't know about it's chance as a single. the song structure is a bit too all over the place. it doesn't have the convenient verse-chorus-verse-chorus-bridge structure.

[Ollie9]

I think all the singles- minus "Your Love"- had top 10 potential. Ross78 as a dance album after BIM could have been huge.

I disagree. I love the album, but don’t hear any obvious hit singles. “Gettin’ Ready For Love” was played to death on the radio, and danced to on a prime time pop show here in the UK. Still it only scraped into the 20’s.
”I think “Summertime Lovin” pretty dreadful and not worthy of one of the world’s premiere female singers of that time.
I agree with sup that the material the Hollands were producing on Diana was schlock when compared to what they had done with the 70’s Supremes.

[sup_fan]

I disagree. I love the album, but don’t hear any obvious hit singles. “Gettin’ Ready For Love” was played to death on the radio, and danced to on a prime time pop show here in the UK. Still it only scraped into the 20’s.
”I think “Summertime Lovin” pretty dreadful and not worthy of one of the world’s premiere female singers of that time.
I agree with sup that the material the Hollands were producing on Diana was schlock when compared to what they had done with the 70’s Supremes.

haha - whoa we agree on something Ollie jk

i've said it before. the BIM project is lovely but just not what was happening at that time. it has a more traditional, innocent pop sound. and things were getting too hot in 77 and into 78. hell DR had just been moaning and groaning about her love hangover and then comes out with these innocuous little pop ditties about getting ready for lover and being at the top of the world.

i think BIM being released in 75 would have been magical. same with the Sups doing the Ivey Woodford tunes like Can't Stop a Girl and Color My World. all of those are just excellent 70s pop. but right time, right place.

[Boogiedown]

Ive decided to make this angle into a new thread

How Did The Song LOVE HANGOVER Come About?

[Ollie9]

haha - whoa we agree on something Ollie jk

i've said it before. the BIM project is lovely but just not what was happening at that time. it has a more traditional, innocent pop sound. and things were getting too hot in 77 and into 78. hell DR had just been moaning and groaning about her love hangover and then comes out with these innocuous little pop ditties about getting ready for lover and being at the top of the world.

i think BIM being released in 75 would have been magical. same with the Sups doing the Ivey Woodford tunes like Can't Stop a Girl and Color My World. all of those are just excellent 70s pop. but right time, right place.

As long as it doesn’t get to be a habit lol.
Although for various reasons not commercially successful, MS&S remains a slick and sophisticated album that still sounds contemporary today.
I’ve always found it odd that in comparison Diana was recording such dated material as “Fire Don’t Burn”, and “Never Light That Old Flame”, being far removed from the contemporary groove of the Supremes.

[sup_fan]

As long as it doesn’t get to be a habit lol.
Although for various reasons not commercially successful, MS&S remains a slick and sophisticated album that still sounds contemporary today.
I’ve always found it odd that in comparison Diana was recording such dated material as “Fire Don’t Burn”, and “Never Light That Old Flame”, being far removed from the contemporary groove of the Supremes.

maybe since diana had such a strong public image they didn't want to stray too far. her Masser produced songs are almost torchsong-like. sure they did a hard left with LH but overall things were pretty standard.

the sups on the other hand had nowhere to go but up. they were so far from the public vision in 76 that they could have sung something X rated and few would have even noticed. So once they hit with Walking, it seems the Hollands used that as an opportunity to really dive in with some amazing material. and of course they were well familiar with Scherrie's voice from the Invictus years.

[Boogiedown]

maybe since diana had such a strong public image they didn't want to stray too far. her Masser produced songs are almost torchsong-like. sure they did a hard left with LH but overall things were pretty standard.

the sups on the other hand had nowhere to go but up. they were so far from the public vision in 76 that they could have sung something X rated and few would have even noticed. So once they hit with Walking, it seems the Hollands used that as an opportunity to really dive in with some amazing material. and of course they were well familiar with Scherrie's voice from the Invictus years.

Yes the Supremes could easily shift their style to something more contemporary because they themselves were reinvented as well. Diana had crafted herself to a high level of respectability over a long period of time and had built a prestigious legacy she didn't want to throw away.
I think had anyone said to her, "How about this bouncy song called UPSIDE DOWN?", in 1976, she'd have shown them the door!
LOVE HANGOVER was a stretch enough!

[Ollie9]

Yes the Supremes could easily shift their style to something more contemporary because they themselves were reinvented as well. Diana had crafted herself to a high level of respectability over a long period of time and had built a prestigious legacy she didn't want to throw away.
I think had anyone said to her, "How about this bouncy song called UPSIDE DOWN?", in 1976, she'd have shown them the door!
LOVE HANGOVER was a stretch enough!

So are you saying more than one dance hit [[LH) would have been perceived as a threat to her level of respectability and legacy around that time. If so, they might have been plunged into troubled waters had “Your Love Is So Good For Me really taken off. Perish the thought.

[sup_fan]

So are you saying more than one dance hit [[LH) would have been perceived as a threat to her level of respectability and legacy around that time. If so, they might have been plunged into troubled waters had “Your Love Is So Good For Me really taken off. Perish the thought.

donna summer sort of had the work from the opposite side of things - she was an excellent vocalist but was sort of pigeon holed into being a sexpot disco diva. maybe people look down their noses at "just dance music" as if it's some sort of lesser type of artistic expression. and sure some disco music sucks. but then again, you can find atrocious and mediocre material in any musical genre.

for instance, mozart [[heralded as one of the most gifted composers ever) wrote scores and scores of operas. not because he was so moved or compelled but because he was the resident composer and was expected to turn in something new regularly. that was one of the main forms of entertainment at the time. most of the operas are frankly garbage and haven't hardly every been performed outside of their original show. it wasn't about creating something for the ages - it was about completing something quickly to make a buck. even back in the 1700s

they probably didn't want Diana too associated with something that was considered a "lesser" form of popular music, mostly happening in gay nightclubs. didn't want her to be "only" a dance artist. in hindsight, it's clear you can make superb and timeless disco music and so maybe there should have been more effort

[Boogiedown]

So are you saying more than one dance hit [[LH) would have been perceived as a threat to her level of respectability and legacy around that time. If so, they might have been plunged into troubled waters had “Your Love Is So Good For Me really taken off. Perish the thought.

That's a good point. Trying to pass YOUR LOVE IS SO... as disco was really a stretch, and counterintuitive to recording a Richard Perry project. Were they getting desperate at that time and seeing nothing much there to push, decided a hit from any angle, even disco, was better than nothing.

[Ollie9]

That's a good point. Trying to pass YOUR LOVE IS SO... as disco was really a stretch, and counterintuitive to recording a Richard Perry project. Were they getting desperate at that time and seeing nothing much there to push, decided a hit from any angle, even disco, was better than nothing.

I think another dance hit at that point would have done her career the power of good, with no reason to relinquish her trademark ballads because of it.
The thinking behind releasing “Your Love Is So Good” was that it was being singled out for additional praise in the trade reviews and picked up on national radio. A bit like what happened with “Up Front” six years later. Not the most reliable litmus test it would seem.
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