Why didn't Motown like Mary Wilson?

[sup_fan]

I agree that Diana shouldn't have said that about Flo especially with Diana knowing about what Flo went through with the rape, etc.

And do you guys really think they were going to use Mary on "Love Child"? I just find that one hard to believe considering she hadn't been on single since "Reflections", over a year prior. I'm kinda glad she did take a vacation if that's the case though because that is my favorite of the backgrounds that the Andantes did.

i agree. even if mary HAD been in town, it's highly debatable that they'd have bothered to use her and Cindy. they were barely on half of the recordings at this time

and the issue of Mary's worth ethic isn't solely based on her deciding to go on vacation in fall 68. it's the supposed notion that she wasn't pushing herself to go that extra mile. she was enjoying herself, partying, going out every night, not dedicating tons of time to honing her craft. it's also a matter of perspective. mary was being a typical 22 year old - i'm sure most of us were going out and partying with friends at this age and not focusing 100% of your time on work. but from the perspective of Berry and seeing what Diana was doing, there's the conflict. Berry even mentions in his book how Diana DIDN'T want to go out because she wanted to preserve her voice, even though she too was a young girl and might have liked socializing. every time diana did something like really reinforced her 100% total commitment to her work, berry seems to have double down even more on his side.

and it just makes mary's actions look even less dedicated to her work.

[Ollie9]

i agree. even if mary HAD been in town, it's highly debatable that they'd have bothered to use her and Cindy. they were barely on half of the recordings at this time

and the issue of Mary's worth ethic isn't solely based on her deciding to go on vacation in fall 68. it's the supposed notion that she wasn't pushing herself to go that extra mile. she was enjoying herself, partying, going out every night, not dedicating tons of time to honing her craft. it's also a matter of perspective. mary was being a typical 22 year old - i'm sure most of us were going out and partying with friends at this age and not focusing 100% of your time on work. but from the perspective of Berry and seeing what Diana was doing, there's the conflict. Berry even mentions in his book how Diana DIDN'T want to go out because she wanted to preserve her voice, even though she too was a young girl and might have liked socializing. every time diana did something like really reinforced her 100% total commitment to her work, berry seems to have double down even more on his side.

and it just makes mary's actions look even less dedicated to her work.

Perhaps if BG had taken just a little more interest in Mary’s potential as opposed to being totally focussed on Diana alone she might have felt a little more motivated.
She was also probably less inclined to spend those nights resting her voice as she actually got to do very little singing away from background.
For one who was supposedly less dedicated to her work, Mary always shined onstage, pushing Diana to work just that little bit harder. A fact Diana herself has admitted to.

[sup_fan]

Perhaps if BG had taken just a little more interest in Mary’s potential as opposed to being totally focussed on Diana alone she might have felt a little more motivated.
She was also probably less inclined to spend those nights resting her voice as she actually got to do very little singing away from background.
For one who was supposedly less dedicated to her work, Mary always shined onstage, pushing Diana to work just that little bit harder. A fact Diana herself has admitted to.

and i don't think M and F were being excessively lazy or negligent to their careers. they were normal 22 year olds. they were wanting what is today called work life balance. it's just that in comparison to D, it was quite a difference.

Berry even mentioned the argument that you're making - that just singing ooohs and ahhhs didn't require them to rest and all. totally agree. i think though the view from Berry was neither of them were overly exertive in their quest to sing something OTHER than ooohs and ahhhs. now this is probably very much dependent on the person's perspective. M and F would probably argue they DID push to do more. whereas B's POV would be they didn't. again it's probably true that, compared to Diana's over the top push to lead and sing and dance and do everything, anyone else's approach to things would pale. If D had been pushed in to the background like M and F, perhaps she would have complained 500 times while M and F complained 10 times.

again IMO it's all about the perspective. i'm not saying that M and F were lazy or didn't push for things. they were, again, only 22 and so being able to self-guide their careers and motown and push for things and all is probably unrealistic. but the problem is, that's the side Berry was on. that's what he truly responded to. his whole family was over achievers - highly motivated, everyone doing 10,000 things at the same time, highly successful, never letting anything stop them.

[Ollie9]

and i don't think M and F were being excessively lazy or negligent to their careers. they were normal 22 year olds. they were wanting what is today called work life balance. it's just that in comparison to D, it was quite a difference.

Berry even mentioned the argument that you're making - that just singing ooohs and ahhhs didn't require them to rest and all. totally agree. i think though the view from Berry was neither of them were overly exertive in their quest to sing something OTHER than ooohs and ahhhs. now this is probably very much dependent on the person's perspective. M and F would probably argue they DID push to do more. whereas B's POV would be they didn't. again it's probably true that, compared to Diana's over the top push to lead and sing and dance and do everything, anyone else's approach to things would pale. If D had been pushed in to the background like M and F, perhaps she would have complained 500 times while M and F complained 10 times.

again IMO it's all about the perspective. i'm not saying that M and F were lazy or didn't push for things. they were, again, only 22 and so being able to self-guide their careers and motown and push for things and all is probably unrealistic. but the problem is, that's the side Berry was on. that's what he truly responded to. his whole family was over achievers - highly motivated, everyone doing 10,000 things at the same time, highly successful, never letting anything stop them.

The point being, none of us were there so how could we possibly know if they weren’t being overly exertive in their quest to be given something more than oohs and ahhs to sing.
For all we know Flo and Mary may have been asking every day before being threatened with put and shut up or else.
It’s all pie in the sky surmising.

[sup_fan]

The point being, none of us were there so how could we possibly know if they weren’t being overly exertive in their quest to be given something more than oohs and ahhs to sing.
For all we know Flo and Mary may have been asking every day before being threatened with put and shut up or else.
It’s all pie in the sky surmising.

of course all of this is caveated with a big fat "we don't really know." it's all speculation, for the most part. trying to make heads or tails of how things played out. Some of it is based on what has been reported in the various books - for instance multiple books have cited that some of the Artistic Dev staff felt M and F weren't working as hard as they should. Mary addresses this herself in Dreamgirl. so using this as a bit of a guide, i've tried to speculate what the broader story is. but it's just that - speculation.