Why didn't Motown like Mary Wilson?

[sup_fan]

[QUOTE=Ollie9;796023]

I would say it’s a mixed bag, starting with the trouble she had getting along with other female performers while at Motown. Producer Gary Katz had said working with her was the low point of his career, while Anthony Perkins is quoted as saying she never let him forget it was her movie. There are of course others who have had no such problems.
I think the way she treated her employees was pretty abusive at times, and can’t just be dismissed as wanting everything perfect. She also managed to alienate most of the execs at RCA.
I would question the perfectionist tag, judging by the quality of the product she was turning out during the early 80’s, and lack of dedication to the task at hand as reported by Barry Gibb. Being demanding and/or a perfectionist being not one of the same.

my guess is she was so hyper focused on proving herself, that she didn't need Berry and Motown, that it raised the perfectionism to new heights. and yet she was so sloppy when it came to her recording career. she was all over these new business efforts - her investments, cutting big deals with Vegas all by herself, the central park initiative, etc. But her cornerstone business of making music suffered. she got lazy with her vocals. wasn't willing to spend the time with top producers like Katz and the Gibbs and really give them the performances they wanted

[Ollie9]

[QUOTE=sup_fan;796042]

my guess is she was so hyper focused on proving herself, that she didn't need Berry and Motown, that it raised the perfectionism to new heights. and yet she was so sloppy when it came to her recording career. she was all over these new business efforts - her investments, cutting big deals with Vegas all by herself, the central park initiative, etc. But her cornerstone business of making music suffered. she got lazy with her vocals. wasn't willing to spend the time with top producers like Katz and the Gibbs and really give them the performances they wanted

If i could ask her anything, i would love to know how she feels when reflecting on that time period, especially if she would have done anything differently.

[sup_fan]

[QUOTE=Ollie9;796057]

If i could ask her anything, i would love to know how she feels when reflecting on that time period, especially if she would have done anything differently.

she'd probably give some annoyingly MOR response about how valuable the whole "growth" experience was lol. Why Do Fools is [[i'm pretty sure) an all-time fav song of hers. so doing a remake of it was probably something she loved. i think she founds pretty great on the song but it's NOT the debut single for a whole new phase of a recording career. Mirror Mirror would have been better.

i'm guessing that she probably doesn't see how halfassed she was with her music. most people aren't that objective with themselves

[bradsupremes]

If there was one thing Diana wasn't good at was making the best choices for her own career. Even today there are things she does that I wish someone had told her to do differently e.g. a more heartfelt statement on Mary's death. And I get she's in a "damned if you, damned if you don't" situation no matter what she does. I understand an artist's desire to do things their own way. Who wouldn't? She's lived a long enough life to make her own decisions. But ultimately we don't always know what's best for ourselves. That was Diana's shortfall. The Wiz is a perfect example. Without someone like Gordy guiding her, she was left to her own devices and musically suffered at a time when her contemporaries like Dionne, Gladys, Aretha, and Patti were having huge resurgences in the 80s. That could have been her but instead she made some poor choices and her music charting career ended in 1986 as a result.

[jobeterob]

If there was one thing Diana wasn't good at was making the best choices for her own career. Even today there are things she does that I wish someone had told her to do differently e.g. a more heartfelt statement on Mary's death. And I get she's in a "damned if you, damned if you don't" situation no matter what she does. I understand an artist's desire to do things their own way. Who wouldn't? She's lived a long enough life to make her own decisions. But ultimately we don't always know what's best for ourselves. That was Diana's shortfall. The Wiz is a perfect example. Without someone like Gordy guiding her, she was left to her own devices and musically suffered at a time when her contemporaries like Dionne, Gladys, Aretha, and Patti were having huge resurgences in the 80s. That could have been her but instead she made some poor choices and her music charting career ended in 1986 as a result.

I somewhat agree although I’m not sure giving up some control would have changed things - she had been on top a very long time and things change; also Mary and Randy may have done damage.

But also the charting did continue - with Rod Stewart, with Blue which reached #2 on the Jazz Chart, with Christmas in Vienna - did it reach #1 somewhere? And the multiple #1’s on the Dance Chart

Also, it’s odd but The Wiz is now her most successful movie and will last forever.

[RanRan79]

If there was one thing Diana wasn't good at was making the best choices for her own career. Even today there are things she does that I wish someone had told her to do differently e.g. a more heartfelt statement on Mary's death. And I get she's in a "damned if you, damned if you don't" situation no matter what she does. I understand an artist's desire to do things their own way. Who wouldn't? She's lived a long enough life to make her own decisions. But ultimately we don't always know what's best for ourselves. That was Diana's shortfall. The Wiz is a perfect example. Without someone like Gordy guiding her, she was left to her own devices and musically suffered at a time when her contemporaries like Dionne, Gladys, Aretha, and Patti were having huge resurgences in the 80s. That could have been her but instead she made some poor choices and her music charting career ended in 1986 as a result.

Aww man, Brad, Diana is the poster child for "Not Everybody Should Have Total Control", my latest documentary. Be on the lookout for it.

I understand her need for control. She was in her mid to late 30s and had never had the independence that comes with being an adult, not really. And I do think she made a few good decisions. Central Park comes to mind. Hooking up with Lionel again, and Daryl Hall, if only for a song, was also a good move, since they both resulted in two hit singles and helped her album go platinum [[or was it gold?). The RHRAB tv special was good, even though the album was a let down. Stolen Moments was brilliant. Finally doing a Christmas album was an accomplishment. So she had it in her to make good decisions, but she needed someone overseeing everything. Someone who would tell her that sound isn't where it's at; no, Diana, that producer hasn't had a hit in five years, get with this producer who is on fire right now; this script is great, do the movie instead of the karaoke style album you're trying to give the fans after a seven year wait; Diana this autobiography is trash, dish the dirt on Mary and return the favor...you know, stuff like that.

[BayouMotownMan]

If there was one thing Diana wasn't good at was making the best choices for her own career. Even today there are things she does that I wish someone had told her to do differently e.g. a more heartfelt statement on Mary's death. And I get she's in a "damned if you, damned if you don't" situation no matter what she does. I understand an artist's desire to do things their own way. Who wouldn't? She's lived a long enough life to make her own decisions. But ultimately we don't always know what's best for ourselves. That was Diana's shortfall. The Wiz is a perfect example. Without someone like Gordy guiding her, she was left to her own devices and musically suffered at a time when her contemporaries like Dionne, Gladys, Aretha, and Patti were having huge resurgences in the 80s. That could have been her but instead she made some poor choices and her music charting career ended in 1986 as a result.

Totally valid, for the ETH I did on Ross I had a guy lined up who was an intern at RCA. He sat in on a meeting with her and execs when they were about to release the Eaten Alive lp I believe it was. I wanted him on the show so badly but he bowed out. He was no longer in the business and didn't want to have blow back, which I understood. I can say it was her ruthlessness that sidetracked her RCA career and when she went limping back to Berry Gordy it was too late, the damage was permanent. RCA lost their ARSES on Diana Ross.