IT'S ALL BEEN SAID BEFORE / Supremes - 1975

[RanRan79]

The song pushed the Women’s Liberation Movement back twenty years.

Preface: I know you're joking. That being said, I don't think the song was an antithesis to women's lib. That corny routine the group had, as if they were fighting over the same guy, certainly didn't help. But the lyrics aren't even about women fighting over the same dude. She's just in love.

[sup_fan]

Thank you. I've been in the "Mary Camp" for decades, but I don't put her on a pedestal and I call a spade a spade. Mary sucks on HMM. She's even worse on TOUCH. That's my opinion. It's also my opinion that she's fantastic on FLOY JOY. So the notation that I prefer one over the other based on how much I like Mary is ridiculous. It's more about the content and lyrics over admiration to me.

i think she's great on FJ and outstanding on AS. the DR Project website did track by track reviews of all albums - 60s sups, 70s sups and all DR solo. the author comments on the peace/love hippie groove of AS and how mary is sort of cast as the worldly hippie - cooing the vocals. it's just flawless.

[sup_fan]

Preface: I know you're joking. That being said, I don't think the song was an antithesis to women's lib. That corny routine the group had, as if they were fighting over the same guy, certainly didn't help. But the lyrics aren't even about women fighting over the same dude. She's just in love.

the routine was dreadful and their live tv performances of HMM were abysmal. that Tonight Show clip is one of the worse tv appearances in the group's history, IMO. Mary is attempting to be a booming voice on the mic and not really cutting it, although i will say she's a bit more vocally interesting on the Tonight Show than on the actual recorded version. Scherrie's vocals are also rather weak on the live Tonight. the routine and gowns were totally off.

[sup_fan]

Are we talking about the same 1975 when the Carpenters' corny version of "Postman" hit number one? "Rhinestone Cowboy" anyone? ELO's "Can't Get It Outta My Head" went top 10. So did "No No Song" by Ringo Starr and Dickie Goodman's "Mr. Jaws". "Can't Stop" and "Color" have to be as good or better than those songs.

As far as comparing them to "Walking", two things: 1) Not every great song is going to go all the way, just like some songs that "suck" somehow make it up the charts; and 2) "Walking" had to compete with "Love Hangover" in Motown's promotional department at a time when Motown was dropping the ball on just about everyone every which kind of way. Plus "Hangover" was a helluva song.

totally right Ran

Walking was the 3rd release by the supremes since reforming - the first two bombed so why would the 3rd be different? plus the group was doing ANOTHER lineup change. so of course motown initially put 0 behind it

but by early 76 the whole disco scene was much more organized at a national level. the big clubs and top djs were carrying more weight with the industry and all. people were starting to understand that if big clubs in NYC, miami, LA, SFO were behind a record that the record stores would start to stock it and promote it instore. and then you had the chance of making that jump from disco to pop charts. the Billboard charts were really only NYC record store listings during the Sup 75 run. by the time of HE and Walking, the NYC club action was being monitored by Billboard along with random other cities. then in Sept 76 they completely revamped it. an official national disco chart and consistent weekly rankings of a dozen or top major US markets.

so you had a much better song benefitting from a much more structured industry environment. it accomplished the strong disco chart rankings pretty much 100% on it's on merit. and it was HUGE in the clubs. that's when motown woke up and said "oh ok - we can at least do a little to push it" and that when it made the jump to the pop market. and while it only hit 40, it was on the charts for many, many weeks. its just that it was a bit of "too little, too late" had they jumped on it early it would have gone at least top 20. but the momentum was starting to peter out

[sup_fan]

It appears they performed HMM at least six times on tv:

The Tonight Show: white/yellow/orange ball gowns

Soul Train: lavender and silver fringe pantsuits

Dinah!: street clothes

Dinah!: lavender tops with black pants

Russell Harry Show: black/brown/purple silk gowns with matching hats

Sammy Davis Show: same outfits as above

That's a LOT of exposure. And it still couldn't crack the Billboard Hot 100.

but those tv shows stretch over a LONG period of time. they performed HMM at the expense of Where Do I Go.

Dinah #1 - June 23

Soul Train Aug 23

American Bandstand Aug 23

Dinah #2 Sept 8

Tonight Show - Sept ??

A local LA TV show i'm not sure of the name - October. Was this maybe the Russell Harry show? i don't have that date in my file

Sammy & Co - Jan 3, 76

HMM was released in May 75. WDIGFH was released in Sept 75

to be performing this song still on tv in october was a pretty stupid idea. they should have pivoted to the next single in Sept

[blackguy69]

The local LA show and the Russell Harry show was before the South African tour. I never knew why the never did Where do I go from here not only on tv but never performed in concert. Has Scherrie ever sung it live ? Also You have to remember when HMM was released Mary had just given birth weeks prior to the release. So I kinda understand why they really was pushing the song.

[telekin]

I made that comment about going nowhere regarding “It’s All Been Said Before”. My opinion hasn’t changed.
”If “He’s My Man” was so knockout, why did it die a death. It certainly received enough tv promotion both in the USA and UK. Bottom line being it simply wasn’t a strong enough song to become a big hit. At best it remains a pleasant album track with a cheesy chorus.

I actually wasn't referring to your comment about IABSB Ollie9, I was referring to a comment jobeterob threw out over HMM. Sorry for not being more specific.

I can't say exactly why it was not a bigger hit. There could be any number of reasons why a song doesn't reach the top, and I've never really used charts as a barometer of quality or to guide my listening. They're mostly snapshots in time to me.

That being said though, I think the fact that it gave them a nice little disco hit has to have counted for something. At that point in disco, so much of it existed outside of the purview of record label promotion still mostly geared towards radio play, or even personal appearances - there was, in a sense, something pure and immediate about that.

To speculate a little bit - while there were already surprise disco hits, like Love's Theme by Love Unlimited Orchestra.. which became bestsellers because of disco and not radio, the industry at large had only just begun to harness the potential of the discos and the disco audience. There wasn't even a single disco chart yet in Billboard, and the first commercially available 12" single came out at least a year after Supremes '75 was released. So, while it didn't carry much momentum outside of the discos, HMM was enough to signal to the group and to the company that The Supremes still had a contemporary audience and some momentum to follow through on. And certainly, much of that contemporary audience consisted of their gay fanbase, which was also the core disco audience.

[Ollie9]

Preface: I know you're joking. That being said, I don't think the song was an antithesis to women's lib. That corny routine the group had, as if they were fighting over the same guy, certainly didn't help. But the lyrics aren't even about women fighting over the same dude. She's just in love.

“He calls says get dressed and i put on my best”. Yes sir, right away.

[Ollie9]

But missing you was in Regular rotation on the radio and the video was also in rotation on NTV and BET. If He’s my man had a decent amount of radio airplay, who knows

I’m a little confused as you previously posted the song would never have been a hit, even with Scherrie on lead.
I do agree that had it been released mid 74 it would have stood a much better chance.

[Ollie9]

I actually wasn't referring to your comment about IABSB Ollie9, I was referring to a comment jobeterob threw out over HMM. Sorry for not being more specific.

I can't say exactly why it was not a bigger hit. There could be any number of reasons why a song doesn't reach the top, and I've never really used charts as a barometer of quality or to guide my listening. They're mostly snapshots in time to me.

That being said though, I think the fact that it gave them a nice little disco hit has to have counted for something. At that point in disco, so much of it existed outside of the purview of record label promotion still mostly still geared towards radio play, or even personal appearances - there was, in a sense, something pure and immediate about that.

To speculate a little bit - while there were already surprise disco hits, like Love's Theme by Love Unlimited Orchestra.. which became bestsellers because of disco and not radio, the industry at large had only just begun to harness the potential of the discos and the disco audience. There wasn't even a single disco chart yet in Billboard, and the first commercially available 12" single came out at least a year after Supremes '75 was released. So, while it didn't carry much momentum outside of the discos, HMM was enough to signal to the group and to the company that The Supremes still had a contemporary audience and some momentum to follow though on. And certainly, much of that contemporary audience consisted of their gay fanbase, which was also the core disco audience.

I do agree with your points on the relevance of the song being a disco hit and a signpost as to where the group might best be placed.
I do think the beyond twee choreography let the song down badly, with less sometimes being more. Sadly it was a pattern to be repeated again and again.

[blackguy69]

I said it’s all been said before might have worked if it was released in 74. I then said HMM would not have been a hit even if Scherrie was doing the full lead. And the reason I Said that is lack of radio play here.

I’m a little confused as you previously posted the song would never have been a hit, even with Scherrie on lead.
I do agree that had it been released mid 74 it would have stood a much better chance.

[Ollie9]

I said it’s all been said before might have worked if it was released in 74. I then said HMM would not have been a hit even if Scherrie was doing the full lead. And the reason I Said that is lack of radio play here.

I was getting a bit confused as you didn’t mention lack of radio play when first commenting on a Scherrie lead and how the song was unlikely to hit. All sorted.

[RanRan79]

To speculate a little bit - while there were already surprise disco hits, like Love's Theme by Love Unlimited Orchestra.. which became bestsellers because of disco and not radio

I don't understand. Are you saying radio wasn't playing "Love's Theme"?

[RanRan79]

“He calls says get dressed and i put on my best”. Yes sir, right away.

Why not? He's her man.

[telekin]

I don't understand. Are you saying radio wasn't playing "Love's Theme"?

Apparently not at first. Obviously that would've changed once it became too big to ignore. As the story goes, and I've heard a few variations on it, it was either initially dead at radio, or not even released as a single. Given that, the label was apparently at a loss as to explain the sales and interest. Once they realized it was largely being generated by disco play, they started to actively promote it there. Apparently it was the first track to cross over from the discos into into the pop charts.

Some links for background:
Pages 3 & 4 in Alice Echols' book Hot Stuff: Disco and the Remaking of American Culture

A 1975 article from The Advocate, the same issue with a feature story on The Supremes incidentally, profiling a west coast DJ - A.J. Miller, one of the first disco DJs to get a gold record for his role in breaking "Love's Theme."

[daviddh]

Remember, the Supremes were off the radio for two years and then returned with a new lead singer.
Overall , a good album that needed tweaking.
I would have added Bend A little in place of where is it I Belong,ShaLa Bandit in place of this is where I belong, and Sha La bandit in place of early morning love.
I would have released it's All Been Said B4 in 74. great track. Then I would have gone with Bend A Little, Where Do I Go From Here.
They left off some good tracks ....who was in charge here....but seems like life in the Supremes.
Just a sign of things to come

[kpitt1204]

I don't remember this album ever being out, but I was a kid and unless it was on tv, I just listened to whatever was on the radio, or whatever my big sister, who had already moved away from home had purchased and shared with me. I don't remember any of the songs from the album on tv. WhenI finally heard the album, I thought the Give Out, But Don't Give Up and Where Do I Go From Here were the standouts. I loved Sherrie's vocals on It's All Been Said Before, but it was nothing that I could hear played at parties or clubs then nor now.