It's 1963 and Florence Ballard is Now the Lead Singer

[jobucats]

Since there are so many Florence fans who claim that Florence was the "best singer" of the three, AND it was she who started the group, AND it was she that gave them their name...we're going to imagine that around 1963 she was "rightly" designated the 'leader' of the group. And yes, Lurlean, I am aware of the history of the founding and the naming of the Primettes/Supremes.

What type of songs are the Supremes going to record that will elevate them to success? Surely the same songs that HDH gave them are not going to work with Florence as lead. Or will they? Maybe "You Keep Me Hangin' On"? Maybe "Love is Like an Itching in My Heart". But then again, couldn't those songs have worked for Martha & her Vandellas?

Did Motown need another 'Martha & the Vandellas', or "Velvelettes??? Could a niche have been crafted to make Florence and her Supremes stand out in the music world of that time? Are they going to be able to venture out and do anything other than r&b?

Followup Question: What are they going to do with that 'over the top' Diane Ross girl to keep her in her place? And that nasally voice sure is piercing in the background!

[RanRan79]

As a Flo fan, I was going to respectfully decline to participate in this thread because the set up is ripe for a potential reverting back to the old days of SD. But I rethought my stance and decided, as a HUGE Flo fan, my two cents might be greatly appreciated.

First things first: "best" is subjective. You have non Flo fans who hold the opinion that Florence was the best singer in the group. It's simply an opinion. My opinion is that none of the girls were any better than the other in a general sense, while each one had strengths for song duties that the other two may not have possessed or didn't handle as well as the other.

What types of songs would they do? I think they would do what everyone else at the label was doing. HDH wrote and produced all kinds of voices. So did Smokey and the others. And we know there's some fantastic stuff recorded by non Supremes at Motown, so I don't see how a Flo led group would be any different. I definitely think Florence would have killed "Itchin" and "Hangin". I also think she would have ripped "You Can't Hurry Love". Of those early string of hits, I think she may have done a great job with "Back In My Arms Again", because that track rocks.

That being said, a Flo led Supremes, assuming the premise is still one where Gordy focuses on the group, would still have the same problem that the Diana led Supremes had: three lead singers with one doing most of the work. The Supremes should have never been a group where only one Supreme got the bulk of the lead singing duties. Flo and Mary were great in their own right. Their live shows and their television work should have showcased all of their lead singing abilities, and my opinion would not change on that if Mary were lead singer or, obviously, if Diana is lead.

Ultimately, Diana Ross was the key to what propelled the group into the stratosphere. The Supremes needed Florence, and needed Mary, just as much. They each contributed to the group in their own unique way. Diana could not do the Supremes alone. I'd venture that even more people would find her annoying if it hadn't been for the contrast between her uniqueness and that of her singing partners. In a perfect world, Diana Ross would have sung lead on almost all those hit records, the exceptions being a couple of ones that I think Flo [[which I've named) and Mary could have done just as good or better than Diana. And the albums would have evenly split leads. And the live shows would have evenly split leads.

Diana Ross did not have the personality, discipline, or charisma that would have allowed her to remain in the background for too long. She definitely would have taken her ball and gone home.

[Starguard4]

Oh yes !! Perhaps re-named Florrie & Her Supremies - after around 14 hit singles, what a thought, eh?

[Ollie9]

The group might have achieved a certain level of success with Flo as lead singer, but not imo on the scale of five #1 singles in a row. Diana’s voice was the key to making those HDH songs the huge hits they were.
There were technically far better female singers at Motown than either Flo Ballard or Diana Ross, the difference being Diana’s pipes were unique.
A voice such as Diana Ross only comes along once in a lifetime. It was this uniqueness of sound that first caught my ear when hearing “Stop In The Name Of Love” being played on the radio ad a kid. For me that simply wouldn’t have happened with Flo or Mary on lead, as talented as they both were.
I would of course have liked Flo and Mary to have been featured on more album tracks, but at the end of the day it was the Ross voice and personality that separated them from the pack making them just that extra bit special.

[Roberta75]

I loved Mary and Cindy and Florence. Loved and still love them but IMO none of the other 8 Supremes had the charisma or stage presence or star quality of Miss Diana Ross.

[after you]

Singing a lead on three songs, does not make you a lead singer by any stretch of imagination, though I did love her she was not a lead singer

[jobeterob]

Most of the women who were major stars had lighter, flexible, distinctive voices - Diana Whitney Madonna Beyonce’.

The Supremes sound is the one identifiable with Diana’s voice. When she left, Jean’s voice was similar enough to keep the sound and a reasonable level of success. As soon as they strayed from that sound, they lost their hit making ability.

Supremes hits with Flo or Mary or anyone but Diana singing lead would have been an entirely different sound. History tells us how many hits they had. Subjectively, there are people who liked each of them the most - but objectively other than Diana and Jean, they were hitless as solos and with Jean, only sang lead on songs that would not be considered big hits by Diana’s Supremes - ie Automatically Sunshine and Floy Joy

[Spreadinglove21]

It's hard to imagine such a scenario as I think the main reasons The Supremes were signed to Motown was because Berry found Diana's voice has the potential to be very lucrative and as groups were a big deal at the time, she was signed as part of a group. If groups weren't a big deal, he would have signed her solo, and she would have happily ditched the other girls. Only thing preventing that would have been her parents not going along with the plan.

If Berry and Motown had lost patience by 1963 of Diana and the group becoming a hit making act, the whole group would have been dropped from the label. Flo would not have been designated lead singer with Diana in the background. Only way Flo would have been designated lead singer would have been if Diana dropped out of the group, and Berry and Motown decided, for whatever reason, to try Flo, Mary and the new member as The Supremes. But they would have likely been given one or two chances to hit and if not they would have been dropped.

And only scenarios I could imagine someone as drive as Diana leaving the group in 1963 would be: 1--got pregnant and being family oriented as she is decided she was fulfilled raising a child and having more; 2--her parents gave her an ultimatum and demanded she quit singing and go to college and find a profession and being family oriented she complied; 3--she didn't let her foot off the accelerator and ran over Gladys Horton and the blind child and ended up going to prison to serve a sentence. In that light, I doubt Motown would have continued The Supremes as they would have been known soley as the group with the crazy girl who was so jealous of The Marvelettes and their success she murdered their leader. In that case maybe Flo and Mary would have stayed on at Motown with surviving members of the Marvelettes under a new group name.

[floyjoy678]

With the right material and a strong support system like Diana had, I'm positive Flo could have led a successful Supremes. Maybe not to the extent of Diana. But I think they'd have a few hits with her. Flo had charisma as well. But she lost it after a while and can you blame her? I do think if Flo had been the sole lead singer, Diana would have jumped ship pretty quick.

There was an article written around when the Supremes debuted at the Copa and they wrote how it was clear the group had three lead singers and only one was being featured. I am in very strong agreement with that.

If Berry only wanted Diana and not the other Supremes, he wouldn't have released their second single with Florence singing lead. There's absolutely no reason why they couldn't be like the Temptations and take turns.

[marybrewster]

Oh Papa Tooney. We've got a looney!

[sansradio]

Oh Papa Tooney. We've got a looney!

LOL! Push through, Motormouth Maybelle!

[lucky2012]

I have to apologize to all of you. My reply to spreadingloves post [#8] was not well-thought out itself, to say the very least.:[[ I liked his thoughts on the subject of this thread, except for the last scenario. The less said about it the better. I'm sorry to have offended anyone with my too-hasty reply.