Jimmy Webb on the Jimmy Webb album.

[RanRan79]

I know some fans think the album is bad, I don't. I played it a few times when I first acquired it, but the only songs I would ever go back to listen to were "5:30 Plane" and "Silent Voices". I had previously had "Paradise" on a Supremes compilation, so I was already familiar with that, and of course "I Guess I'll Miss the Man". But I'm so unfamiliar with the album, as a result of so few spins, that I can't list the tracks by memory, and some songs I can't even sing the chorus because I just don't remember off the top of my head. I think it's easily the Supremes album I play the least.

The quality of the album isn't bad or poor at all, not in my opinion. The big problem with it is that it just wasn't the Supremes. The group had been stepping outside their usual fare going back to the Liverpool album. Then there was the C&W album, Sam Cooke, Rodgers and Hart, even Funny Girl. And throughout all of those departures in sound, the style was always still very much the Supremes. Nothing on the JW album screams SUPREMES to me. You could wipe Jean and Mary's lead voices off the album and replace with any random singers and the album doesn't really change much, if at all.

It was the wrong sound, wrong style at such a critical phase of the group. Motown may have been pissed that an outsider was brought in, but ultimately they green lit the project. Had Motown been about the serious business of music, especially where the Supremes are concerned, they would have told the ladies "no", told Jimmy "thanks, but no thanks" and then, seeing how serious the ladies were about trying to get something going, Motown would have gone into beast mode to get a hit single and appropriate album out.

[bradsupremes]

And Webb didn't have a significant history of producing entire albums [and nothing monumental]...under a handful with one being his own, so maybe it was biting off more than he could chew.
Motown should have kept an eye on it.
When they finally got their hands on his finished output ....they were shocked I'm guessing....and saw no way to recoup ....not finding even one Webb cut worthy to work as a single.
No liners notes on the jacket from anybody saying what a thrill and an honor, what a crowning achievement ...etc..

Biting off more than he could chew? He had written, produced, and arranged entire albums for several artists before this - The 5th Dimension's The Magic Garden, Richard Harris' A Tramp Shining and The Yard Went On Forever, and Thelma Houston's Sunshower - all of which were critically acclaimed. And this doesn't include his own albums. Hell, A Tramp Shining was nominated for a Grammy for Album of the Year in 1969. How many Motown produced albums got that honor up to that time? The answer is none.

Someone earlier had mentioned that it didn't sound like a Supremes album, but a Jimmy Webb one. True, but isn't that the whole point? Webb as a songwriter, producer, and arranger had a very distinct style and approach to his work. Any album he would produce for an artist is going to sound like it was crafted by him. That's why they wanted him. Would people rather prefer he attempt an HDH or Al Green knockoff?

I fully agree that this album is a major disappointment and it doesn't fit their sound. It's the worst album of their career, but I cannot understand why so many on here are quick to blame Webb for being in over his head or didn't have the track record to warrant it. The man is a highly influential and gifted songwriter/producer/arranger with several Grammys, was inducted into the Songwriters Hall of Fame in 1986, given the highest honor with the Johnny Mercer Award in 2003 and then was chairman following Hal David. A songwriter who is hit or miss doesn't get those kind of honors.

[sup_fan]

Biting off more than he could chew? He had written, produced, and arranged entire albums for several artists before this - The 5th Dimension's The Magic Garden, Richard Harris' A Tramp Shining and The Yard Went On Forever, and Thelma Houston's Sunshower - all of which were critically acclaimed. And this doesn't include his own albums. Hell, A Tramp Shining was nominated for a Grammy for Album of the Year in 1969. How many Motown produced albums got that honor up to that time? The answer is none.

Someone earlier had mentioned that it didn't sound like a Supremes album, but a Jimmy Webb one. True, but isn't that the whole point? Webb as a songwriter, producer, and arranger had a very distinct style and approach to his work. Any album he would produce for an artist is going to sound like it was crafted by him. That's why they wanted him. Would people rather prefer he attempt an HDH or Al Green knockoff?

I fully agree that this album is a major disappointment and it doesn't fit their sound. It's the worst album of their career, but I cannot understand why so many on here are quick to blame Webb for being in over his head or didn't have the track record to warrant it. The man is a highly influential and gifted songwriter/producer/arranger with several Grammys, was inducted into the Songwriters Hall of Fame in 1986, given the highest honor with the Johnny Mercer Award in 2003 and then was chairman following Hal David. A songwriter who is hit or miss doesn't get those kind of honors.

i completely agree that Webb was/is a talented producer, artist, writer. he had a very strong track record coming into this assignment. but that doesn't mean he made a laundry list of mistakes and the resulting dud of an album is mostly his blame.

1. poor song choice - we've talked about this plenty.
2. poor choice keys for the songs - again, we've talked about this. he should understand the keys that best work for his assigned lead singer. just like it would make no sense to write/arrange a tune so low that jean can barely hit the notes, same goes of a song too high. a good producer knows what the singer's range is, understands just how far they can push it and doesn't go beyond
3. the mess of backup singers - true. motown had made it a habit to swap out singers for the supremes. but rarely did the make such a blatant effort to say "this is NOT the supremes." you could argue they did it with Someday and people didn't mind. but that song is a hell of a lot more magical than anything on this lp or just about anythin JW had written and produced in his entire career.
4. poor arrangements and mixes - the JW productions are big. so were the Frank productions on NW. the amount of instrumentation and all that Frank used on SL or Bridge or Together. there's 10,000 things going on. but not every instrument all the time. Frank has the string slide in and out, fading in and out of the mix. there are points where he emphasized the vocals and JMC are full front and center. but then there are times when the backing vocals slip back. the mixing and arranging work is masterful. Jimmy just opens up the floodgates. sure there are times when it's quieter because only the piano is playing. listen to Silent Voices or paradise or Cheap. it's either on or off. things aren't pulling in and out. there's no variation. if the singer is singing or the instrument is playing, it's on.

these are all choices Jimmy had control over and the decisions he made are clearly a significant part of why this record failed

[sup_fan]

I'm betting that's exactly why the album ended up in stores rather than shelved. Motown was hoping to somehow recoup the costs. That's why "I Guess I'll Miss the Man", neither written nor produced by Jimmy Webb, was added to the album and released as the single.

Seems like it would have made sense to try to milk some singles from it. The only one I think had a prayer of making any noise is "5:30 Plane", although it's possible "Cheap Lovin" might also have done something. In fact, the more I think about it, the more I think "Cheap" might have been the better choice. Either way, I would have gone with both as singles and crossed my fingers.

The GH package for the end of 72 is intriguing.

Up the Ladder
Everybody's Got the Right To Love
Stoned Love
River Deep, Mountain High
Nathan Jones
Touch
You Gotta Have Love
Floy Joy
Automatically Sunshine
Your Wonderful Sweet, Sweet Love

Tack on "I Guess I'll Miss the Man", bill it as a new song on the album, along with an additional new song and there's a ready made 12 track greatest hits package that might have sold decently.

haha you know i'm gonna monkey around with your track listing! you know i love to play producer lol

so the duets would not have been included because of royalties. just like the Temps weren't on GH3. plus the Tops were splitting to another label so motown would have done nothing to promote them.

i think they would have gone with the singles and then a few key album tracks. MAYBE an unreleased tune or two

Ladder
Everybody
Loving Country
Stoned Love
Nathan Jones
touch
Here comes the sunrise
floy joy
Auto sun
YWSSL
I Guess I'll miss
The day will come between sunday and monday

[bradsupremes]

I know it's been mentioned on here, but Motown did have plans to release a greatest hits album on The Supremes around 1972 called Gold. Diana was suppose to get a similar album too, but both were scrapped.

[RanRan79]

haha you know i'm gonna monkey around with your track listing! you know i love to play producer lol

so the duets would not have been included because of royalties. just like the Temps weren't on GH3. plus the Tops were splitting to another label so motown would have done nothing to promote them.

i think they would have gone with the singles and then a few key album tracks. MAYBE an unreleased tune or two

Ladder
Everybody
Loving Country
Stoned Love
Nathan Jones
touch
Here comes the sunrise
floy joy
Auto sun
YWSSL
I Guess I'll miss
The day will come between sunday and monday

Scrapping the duets makes a little sense. Actually, it would have been interesting if the label had the Supremes re-record "River Deep" and maybe "Gotta Have Love" on their own to be included, give the album a little more padding with "new" stuff. [[And I have a feeling that a Jean complete lead for both "River" and "Gotta" would have been chocked full of killer vocals.)

[Ollie9]

I know it's been mentioned on here, but Motown did have plans to release a greatest hits album on The Supremes around 1972 called Gold. Diana was suppose to get a similar album too, but both were scrapped.

Of course we here in the UK were given “Diana Ross Greatest Hits’, filled with quality singles and album tracks. I loved the cover and gatefold sleeve.

[sup_fan]

I know it's been mentioned on here, but Motown did have plans to release a greatest hits album on The Supremes around 1972 called Gold. Diana was suppose to get a similar album too, but both were scrapped.

oh wow! no i hadn't heard that! wonder what prompted them to do so? 72 wasn't a very strong year for motown. mary even mentioned in her book how few big hit singles the label had that year. so a bunch of GH releases would have definitely sold well and brought some money in

[sup_fan]

Scrapping the duets makes a little sense. Actually, it would have been interesting if the label had the Supremes re-record "River Deep" and maybe "Gotta Have Love" on their own to be included, give the album a little more padding with "new" stuff. [[And I have a feeling that a Jean complete lead for both "River" and "Gotta" would have been chocked full of killer vocals.)

perhaps those would have turned out better than Diana's re-recording of Endless Love! lol

[daviddh]

I would have preferred the Hits package over this mess.
But they had Promises Kept in the can.
And soon would be recording with Stevie Wonder and again with Frank Wilson.
Just a bad choice of material.imo

[sup_fan]

I would have preferred the Hits package over this mess.
But they had Promises Kept in the can.
And soon would be recording with Stevie Wonder and again with Frank Wilson.
Just a bad choice of material.imo

IMO the Promises Kept material was rather subpar. it wasn't bad but it wasn't exciting. the volume of cover tunes would make that album a bit of a challenge, especially following the extraordinary Frank Wilson albums and even Floy Joy.

this is just my theory but while we look at these 19 or so songs as the "promises kept" sessions, i don't know that motown ever looked at them as a collective group. I think motown was "fishing" at this point. sure Ladder and SL were big hits. and RO did pretty well. but all of the subsequent albums pretty much bombed. NJ did alright but only Top 20. the duets failed. Touch failed. IMO the Supremes became available to any and all producers - you have Frank doing a tune with them, A&S did one, Clay McMurray, Bobby Taylor, Henry Cosby, Smokey, The Clan, Dean Taylor. pretty much everyone!

my guess is they purposely had this variety going on to see what might stick - the proverbial pasta thrown against the wall. out of the various tunes, they opted to go with Smokey. and when it sold, he got the album opportunity. had they gone with A&S and Can't Get You Out Of My Mind and it had done well, my guess is A&S would have done an album instead of FJ.

so i don't think they could have thrown these random "promises kept" tracks into an album

[Boogiedown]

We know Cindy wasn’t on the JW album. You are right that it was never confirmed that the blossoms were on the album but also it was never confirmed that the blackberries were on it also. 2 people are saying one thing and 2 are saying another. Who’s correct, who knows. All of their memories are fuzzy to a degree. These girls were so busy can any of them remember every thing they did. Some of us can’t remember what we had for lunch 2 days ago lol.

Jimmy Webb worked with The Blossoms on the Johnny Rivers album.

So either

1] Jimmy easily knows who the Blossoms are when he refers to them
or
2] He's picturing those Rivers sessions where they were used and is confusing that studio time as the one with The Supremes.

*It does seem that if he'd worked with them before [and he liked the results] he'd return to using them again.

[bradsupremes]

Jimmy Webb worked with The Blossoms on the Johnny Rivers album.

So either

1] Jimmy easily knows who the Blossoms are when he refers to them
or
2] He's picturing those Rivers sessions where they were used and is confusing that studio time as the one with The Supremes.

*It does seem that if he'd worked with them before [and he liked the results] he'd return to using them again.

He also worked with the Blackberries on Richard Harris’ and Thelma Houston’s albums.

Jimmy is a great storyteller and I’ve seen him multiple times in concert and much like anyone who has a long career, he’s not going to remember every single detail.He’s told the same stories in his book and then in concert and they differ slightly. Maybe he really does believe the Blossoms are on this album because his work with them stands out, but my ears say otherwise - those additional voices sound nothing like the Blossoms. And if Lynda and Jean recalled Venetta Fields and Clydie King singing with them in the studio during these sessions then there must be some weight of truth to that. Remember, this was Lynda’s first recording sessions with the group. I’m pretty sure she’s going to remember the details much clearer. To Jimmy, this was another album he produced - it’s not going to stand out in memory compared to someone who just joined and this was their time in the studio as a new member.

[BobbyC]

1972 ad for Jimmy's album

[Boogiedown]

"Presenting: IGIMTM the best and only reason to buy the Supremes new album. In fact screw the album we're not even mentioning, just buy this single "

[Boogiedown]

added:

You can't even make out what new Supreme is who in that teensy picture.

and there's that darn "touch" word again.

[Spreadinglove21]

1972 ad for Jimmy's album

Was that Supremes 3 headed butterfly image inspired by Ghidorah the 3 headed monster?

[jobeterob]

Maybe Mary or Pedro recognized they were stepping too far away from what the Supremes were known for and agreed to put IGIMTM on to preserve some connection to the past

[bradsupremes]

Maybe Mary or Pedro recognized they were stepping too far away from what the Supremes were known for and agreed to put IGIMTM on to preserve some connection to the past

Pedro was not part of the picture at this time.

[BobbyC]

No, it's Mothra

[blackguy69]

Maybe there’s one possibility that the Blackberries were at least on one track. Seeing that if she said that her and Jean were standing with them, then it’s possible that they were at in I Keep It Hid seeing that that would be the one song we know for sure Jean sang in the background.

[carlo]

Maybe there’s one possibility that the Blackberries were at least on one track. Seeing that if she said that her and Jean were standing with them, then it’s possible that they were at in I Keep It Hid seeing that that would be the one song we know for sure Jean sang in the background.

It would make sense to me if The Blackberries are on "I Guess I'll Miss The Man", since it's the only track not produced by Jimmy Webb that's on the album. It was co-produced by Sherlie Matthews, so it would make sense if she and The Blackberries did background vocals with Mary and Lynda on that particular recording.

Has anyone ever asked Darlene Love if she remembers doing sessions for this album? If not, perhaps I'll write a note to her.

It's funny to me that this LP has received so much criticism over the years and that the fan base has always been divided over it. It remains to be one of my top favourite Supremes albums, as well as my husband's favourite. He doesn't go out of his way to listen to The Supremes, since he hears them enough when I play their music at home. However, he has regularly played this album and he had me buy him the Japanese CD release, so he could play it in the car [back when we could play CDs in our vehicles ]. I ended up buying two copies of that Japanese release, as I wasn't about to let him own something of The Supremes that I didn't have! It didn't matter that I already had this album on vinyl and as part of the This Is The Story box set.

[carlo]

I re-visited Midnight Johnny's interview with Jean from 2005. She understandably didn't remember a lot of details, when he asked her about different events. He mentioned how it's been said that The Blossoms were added onto the Jimmy Webb LP and her response was, "Who?" He explained and her response was, "Don't believe everything you read...if they aren't credited on the album, then they aren't on it." He said, "Well you worked with The Andantes and they weren't credited either." Touché. She went on to say that she didn't record with The Andantes, since she didn't do many background vocals, beyond the initial Right On LP.

[carlo]

Listen to this track, "Fire and Rain" from The Blossoms' 1972 Shockwave LP. To me, the background vocals sound comparable to the background vocals heard on the Jimmy Webb LP. They're singing in a much higher key here, like they did on that album.



"Cherish What Is Dear To You" is also from that same album. When I hear the Blossoms singing "don't wait till it's gone", the way they're singing the final "gone" in the chorus, before each verse, sounds reminiscent to me of the "gone" that is sung in the line, "but the 5:30 plane is already gone".



I'm not as familiar with The Blackberries background vocals, other than what is on The Supremes' recordings. Are there specific recordings that The Blackberries have done that are sonically comparable to what we hear in the background on the Jimmy Webb LP?

[carlo]

...answering my own question here lol. I hadn't heard this track before. "Somebody Up There" [from the Complete Motown Singles Vol. 12A: 1972] by The Blackberries which does indeed sound very strikingly similar to the background vocals on the Jimmy Webb LP.



I'm now leaning towards The Blackberries as well! They certainly sound like the same voices I'm used to hearing on one of my favourite Jimmy Webb tracks, "Paradise".

Now where's that unreleased Blackberries Motown album?

[Ollie9]

I'm now leaning towards The Blackberries as well! They certainly sound like the same voices I'm used to hearing on one of my favourite Jimmy Webb tracks, "Paradise".

I can definitely hear a similarity. I consider “Paradise” one of their better performances on the JW album. I think had they mixed the best of JW with the stronger tracks from the Promises Kept sessions it might have proved one of the groups strongest albums.
Perhaps from a contractual perspective this wasn’t possible.

[bradsupremes]

Here is another example of the Blackberries:


As compared to the Blossoms on Bill Medley's "Brown Eyed Woman." They are clearly double-tracked on this, but even without Darlene singing lead, you can pick out her voice in the background. While belting out, there are similarities to things like "5:30 Plane," and "Paradise," I just don't hear their sound anywhere on the Jimmy Webb album.


Something else to take into consideration - The Blackberries were signed to Motown. It would make sense for them to be around and be used as compared to the Blossoms weren't part of the Motown wheelhouse. Now, I know Jimmy Webb had been far removed from his Motown days and the musicians he used weren't Motown folks either, but it is something to consider.

[daviddh]

Brad, do you know if there were outakes from the JW sessions.
Any info on the 73 love Train sessions

[carlo]

Thanks Brad. I took a listen to Kidnapped as well last night, when I was looking up The Blackberries. Great track.

I noticed that an "Ivyfield"[aka Steve Weaver] had edited The Blackberries' Wikipedia page in recent years, stating that Jean and Lynda had confirmed in a joint interview that they recalled they were in the studio with them for this album [as previously mentioned above]. He goes on to say that Mary Wilson had incorrectly mentioned in her memoir that it was The Blossoms. I had checked her book Supreme Faith yesterday and she only made a general reference to "additional voices" that were added onto the recordings, but didn't identify who it was. I then realized it was in the 70's Supremes Anthology booklet where Mary was quoted as saying it was The Blossoms. She probably said this because it was what Jimmy Webb had been claiming, all these years. I know her memory on certain specifics was understandably not all that great either.

[sup_fan]

1972 ad for Jimmy's album

as a marketing professional, this is a perfect case study in how NOT to do an ad. this is probably one of the worse motown ads ever. now many times they were not especially inspiring. the YCHL one has a decent pic of the girls and the title of the song with sort of "fast" lines behind the words. making them sort of appear to be speeding across the page. but it does the job - you instantly know the group and the song. done.

this is just an idiotic mess. they wrote 19 paragraph of nonsense - none of the copy really makes any sense. sort of a new-agey blubber. the pic of the girls is tiny and poor image quality. the title of the song is buried in all that useless copy. and the bizarre Mothra cartoon image is unappealing and unnecessary. and it's bigger than the pic of the actual girls!!

[sup_fan]

Was that Supremes 3 headed butterfly image inspired by Ghidorah the 3 headed monster?

hahahaha love this!!!! the multi-headed hydra lol

[Boogiedown]

I appreciate those that can distinguish the variables in the voices of groups and their back up singers. [as an aside,I admit as a Beatles fan [not adamant] I never gave pause to who was lead singing between Paul and John...of course on many songs it was obvious and I never went out of my way to realize which of the two likely wrote what. So currently that has been an added focus when listening to the Beatles channel]

Once I realized that some groups like The Ritchie Family changed out some singers it helps to explain how something seemed lacking [off] in later releases. [this could be said for Supremes also] .

Since The Blackberries and the Blossoms are discernible, I'll side with the ears that are paying attention.

It is odd to me that Webb lists the singers by each of their names instead of just saying The Blossoms [what was the point of that] and it does seem very likely he doesn't remember correctly which girls sang on which album since he didn't appear to be loyal to using any of them, even using his sister on one album instead .
Unless I missed it, I don't see on any of his projects where Webb goes out of his way to credit having used The Blackberries....he apparently didn't think it that important.

[jim aka jtigre99]

Motown used additional vocalists on a lot of groups. It certainly doesn't mean the groups couldn't sing or else the live shows would have flopped. The Four Tops were on When the Lovelight because they wanted a heavy, deeper male vocal background in spots. Before they were signed the Supremes did backgrounds and handclaps. Had they been bad singers, they wouldn't have used them. The thing I didn't like was when he stated that with the background he brought in that the Supremes never sounded so good. I beg to differ. Listen to the last 3 LPs when there were no additional vocalists. The Supremes had a very distinct sound from Diana, Mary & Flo up to Mary, Scherrie & Susaye.
The thing is if you want a fuller sound you shouldn't say disparaging comments about the talents of the group you are producing. Very wrong and unprofessional.

[sup_fan]

my guess is that JW wasn't meaning that the sound prior was bad. but what he developed was this massive choral sound which was very different. and if you are looking for or prefer that big sound, this would be a good version of it. so i think his comment is more that he found this to be a big and great sound.

what's so interesting is that it's not like the group hadn't had big or complex vocals prior. Lovelight is a great example and it worked. but Run is another great example and how it didn't work.

Someday certainly had a bit of a choral effect that really sounded nothing like "the supremes" but it still worked

Loving Country, This is the story and Touch both had lots of layered vocals. i'm pretty sure it wasn't all the supremes but i do think Frank did do some additional vocal tracks and layers of the sups and then added in whatever other background singers.

and later songs like Sha La Bandit and Give Out had tons of layered vocals AND all done solely by MSC.

so there are plenty of examples bigger sup vocals. but for the most part, they all still sound "supreme" The sound of JM doesn't sound supreme. to my ear it's more Phil Specter wall of sound and that just wasn't Motown

[blackguy69]

Let’s be truthful. If it’s possible for Mary to be incorrect then it’s possible for Jean and Lynda to be incorrect. All of the ladies at one point or another given incorrect information.

Thanks Brad. I took a listen to Kidnapped as well last night, when I was looking up The Blackberries. Great track.

I noticed that an "Ivyfield"[aka Steve Weaver] had edited The Blackberries' Wikipedia page in recent years, stating that Jean and Lynda had confirmed in a joint interview that they recalled they were in the studio with them for this album [as previously mentioned above]. He goes on to say that Mary Wilson had incorrectly mentioned in her memoir that it was The Blossoms. I had checked her book Supreme Faith yesterday and she only made a general reference to "additional voices" that were added onto the recordings, but didn't identify who it was. I then realized it was in the 70's Supremes Anthology booklet where Mary was quoted as saying it was The Blossoms. She probably said this because it was what Jimmy Webb had been claiming, all these years. I know her memory on certain specifics was understandably not all that great either.

[bradsupremes]

Let’s be truthful. If it’s possible for Mary to be incorrect then it’s possible for Jean and Lynda to be incorrect. All of the ladies at one point or another given incorrect information.

True, but this was Lynda's first recording session with the group. That's going to stand out as a vivid memory as compared to Mary where this was just another of hundreds of sessions she did.

[blackguy69]

Did Lynda before claimed she was on the FJ album?

True, but this was Lynda's first recording session with the group. That's going to stand out as a vivid memory as compared to Mary where this was just another of hundreds of sessions she did.

[bradsupremes]

Did Lynda before claimed she was on the FJ album?

According to the interview she did for the fan club newsletter in early 1973, she said:
"I didn't do the songs on Floy Joy, any of them. It was definitely Cindy. Actually, the first recording that I was on with the Supremes was the Jim Webb album."

[jobeterob]

Let’s be truthful. If it’s possible for Mary to be incorrect then it’s possible for Jean and Lynda to be incorrect. All of the ladies at one point or another given incorrect information.

Surely not Diana?

Ok ignore that.

Is the consensus that Motown insisted on IGIMTM going on this album and being the first single - because of their Pippin connection?

It’s a nice album cut and it was more Supremes like than Touch by a country mile but the Supremes were rapidly going out of style and IGIMTM helped them seem like yesterdays girls

[blackguy69]

I didn’t make it up lol. That’s been floating around for awhile

According to the interview she did for the fan club newsletter in early 1973, she said:
"I didn't do the songs on Floy Joy, any of them. It was definitely Cindy. Actually, the first recording that I was on with the Supremes was the Jim Webb album."

[RanRan79]

Based off of the videos posted here, I'm torn between whether it's the Blossoms or the Blackberries. However, using my deductive reasoning, it seems like it would make sense that Jimmy used the Blossoms for two reasons: [[a) He said he used them, and [[b) He was not an in-house Motown producer, so why would he go out of his way to bring in another Motown group rather than use a group he was already very much familiar with and comfortable working with in the Blossoms?

No disrespect to the Blackberries- I would love for all of their stuff to be released because they were vocally fantastic- but were their names even ringing out in the music business where people outside of Motown wanted to use them? It's hard for me to imagine Jimmy- even in a Motown studio- saying "get me some random female singers", or "bring me the Blackberries". Makes more sense that in his vision for this Supremes album, if he's hearing a chorus of voices, he's going to reach out to singers he has already worked with.

My two cents.

[sup_fan]

Surely not Diana?

Ok ignore that.

Is the consensus that Motown insisted on IGIMTM going on this album and being the first single - because of their Pippin connection?

It’s a nice album cut and it was more Supremes like than Touch by a country mile but the Supremes were rapidly going out of style and IGIMTM helped them seem like yesterdays girls

yes motown had invested in Pippin so they had some of their acts record some of the music. the sups did IGIMTM. the J5 did Corner of the Sky [[which Diana later included in her live show) and Irene Ryan did another song. can't remember the title of it.

deke coproduced IGIMTM and it's a lovely tune, even if the lyrics are a bit too depressing to make it a likely big hit song. but the production is elegant and warm. too bad Deke didn't remix the entire JW lp to more fit in with IGIMTM.

[sansradio]

Irene Ryan did another song. can't remember the title of it.

"No Time at All."

[bradsupremes]

Based off of the videos posted here, I'm torn between whether it's the Blossoms or the Blackberries. However, using my deductive reasoning, it seems like it would make sense that Jimmy used the Blossoms for two reasons: [[a) He said he used them, and [[b) He was not an in-house Motown producer, so why would he go out of his way to bring in another Motown group rather than use a group he was already very much familiar with and comfortable working with in the Blossoms?

No disrespect to the Blackberries- I would love for all of their stuff to be released because they were vocally fantastic- but were their names even ringing out in the music business where people outside of Motown wanted to use them? It's hard for me to imagine Jimmy- even in a Motown studio- saying "get me some random female singers", or "bring me the Blackberries". Makes more sense that in his vision for this Supremes album, if he's hearing a chorus of voices, he's going to reach out to singers he has already worked with.

My two cents.

The thing is that he worked with the Blackberries quite extensively. I would dare to say much more than he worked with the Blossoms. The only instances I can recall the Blossoms working with Jimmy Webb was during the Johnny Rivers sessions in 1967. Sherlie Matthews, Clydie King, and Venetta Fields were quite well known in the Los Angeles music scene for their studio session work for most of the 60s and into the 70s. They recorded with Joe Cocker, Burt Bacharach, The Rolling Stones, Humble Pie, just to name a few. They were used just as much as the Blossoms. Venetta was a former Ikette, Clydie was a former Raelette. Sherlie is on Thelma's Sunshower album as was Patrice Holloway. I'm quite positive they along with Clydie and Venetta were used on the Richard Harris albums he produced. And it would make sense to use them if they were around the studios especially if they were signed at Motown at the time.

[Boogiedown]

Can this really be the best this project has to offer ? No wonder Jean was concerned about her vocal chords.

"Well I guess we could release that darn Pippin song we have sitting on the shelf."




I bet Jimmy 'bout fell out of his chair when he saw this inserted into his work !

[RanRan79]

The thing is that he worked with the Blackberries quite extensively. I would dare to say much more than he worked with the Blossoms. The only instances I can recall the Blossoms working with Jimmy Webb was during the Johnny Rivers sessions in 1967. Sherlie Matthews, Clydie King, and Venetta Fields were quite well known in the Los Angeles music scene for their studio session work for most of the 60s and into the 70s. They recorded with Joe Cocker, Burt Bacharach, The Rolling Stones, Humble Pie, just to name a few. They were used just as much as the Blossoms. Venetta was a former Ikette, Clydie was a former Raelette. Sherlie is on Thelma's Sunshower album as was Patrice Holloway. I'm quite positive they along with Clydie and Venetta were used on the Richard Harris albums he produced. And it would make sense to use them if they were around the studios especially if they were signed at Motown at the time.

Ah, okay, I didn't know any of this. It makes sense. So maybe it was the Blackberries. Well at least we know one thing that no one has disputed: Mary, Jean and Lynda are on the album. I guess we should be glad for that. Lol

[Spreadinglove21]

Is there any song from the Webb sessions where Lynda's voice is prominent in the background? Hard to do given the multitude of voices on the backing vocals, though Jean made her presence more than felt when she sang back up on I Keep It Hid.