Will the legacy of the group [[and Diana) be everlasting?

[floyjoy678]

I feel like I don't hear too much references to the Supremes or even Diana as much as I used to.

I started thinking about this because a theater in my city is putting on an original show and there's been a lot of advertising about it.

It's basically a play on the VH1 Divas concert specials. I was reading the description and saw them listing all the divas that the show will focus on: "Aretha, Cher, Donna Summer, ABBA, Whitney, Dolly"...the list went on and I did not see the Supremes or Diana. It kinda made me sad. How do you have a show like this about divas without the Supremes?!

[daviddesper]

It might be a licensing or permission type thing. Also sometimes that kind of show will feature more people than they advertise.

As for an answer to your title question........I don't think we are in any danger of the group being forgotten in our lifetime. Sirius XM radio will see to that. Now in another 40-50 years who knows, but right now, I think they are safely entrenched within our consciousness.

[IMissFlo93]

yeah the supremes fad is over for now.

cindy's very ill, so we'll see if it returns.


and once the flo fans "cheer" that the Diana..........i'm sorry, Wicked Witch of the Midwest/Evil Queen of Motown melts/falls of a cliff then people will become fans of Diana Ross/Supremes and it will become the next 2009-like HUGE Fad making non-fans fans.


I'm starting to think the only reason people felt heartbreak in Flo's tragedy was because she died.

[BayouMotownMan]

The Supremes are immortal if only for comparison sake. Any female group that gets a song on the radio has always been compared to the Supremes and that will likely never change. It used the be that the Andrews Sisters were the quintessential group, but the Supremes changed that.

In terms of reference and visibility it will come and go with the times. Whenever books and/or movies come out that feature their music it usually results in increased radio airplay of their catalog and a short spike in sales. When Mary Wilson died I heard that spotify and amazon had a brief increase in sales. I suppose when we lose Diana it will result in a massive increase in that catalog as it did when Michael Jackson died. It's just how things are in our country. You're only as popular as your last hit record.

[sup_fan]

the group's music will be everlasting. their songs continually pop up in movies and tv shows

but to build on Bayou's point, things come and go. if you think of our grandparent's generation, the McGuire Sisters, Andrew Sisters and others were HUGE. yet today they're not as relevant or top of mind. but their imagery lasts. whenever you have a movie or show set in the 30s or 40s and there's a musical act, it often is a sort of clone for these groups. same with 60s girls groups - the image of 3 lovely black women in elaborate wigs and sequin gowns will be the default

[jobucats]

Although the legacy of Elvis Presley, the Beatles, and Michael Jackson will last longer, I believe the Supremes as icons will also continue for many, many years. References to female groups will point to them.

[daviddh]

The music will live on but....we are all getting old....
Diana is the last original Supremes.
Bet ten years ..no one will care
Unless her kids keep the legacy going

[BobbyC]

I agree, David. People today in their twenties and thirties, mostly don't even know who Diana Ross is [[I know, because I work with that age group). They do know certain songs, but mostly as covers of Supreme songs. so yeah the music is still alive

[jobeterob]

I agree with most of what has been posted.

Whenever Billboard lists top female groups, the Supremes are invariably at the top

They had a cultural impact - they, more than any Motown group or artist, brought soul/ RnB music to a much larger white audience

They created, especially Diana created, a look and a style - the big hair, the gowns - all the new girls copy her - as Beyonce said “there would be no me without you”.

I think there is a long time legacy but do 17 year olds follow the 60’s idols??? Did we follow Frank Sinatra and Louis Armstrong??

I think Tracee is followed online by more people than Diana

[REYnoldo Chavez]

She killed Flo and Mary.

[Spreadinglove21]

I'd say the legacy and impact of Motown will be everlasting, but as for the Supremes and Diana Ross, specifically, only within the context of being part of Motown, but not really in of themselves as acts.

[thanxal]

I feel like I don't hear too much references to the Supremes or even Diana as much as I used to.

I started thinking about this because a theater in my city is putting on an original show and there's been a lot of advertising about it.

It's basically a play on the VH1 Divas concert specials. I was reading the description and saw them listing all the divas that the show will focus on: "Aretha, Cher, Donna Summer, ABBA, Whitney, Dolly"...the list went on and I did not see the Supremes or Diana. It kinda made me sad. How do you have a show like this about divas without the Supremes?!

Short answer: yes.

Long answer: They won't ever be as ragingly popular as they were in the 60s but any music that rose to the top in the modern era will always live on. In 100 years someone will [[re)discover this long lost group and marvel at them. I know this because there are fora upon fora discussing every nuance of jazz from the 1910s, 20s and 30s. Even the most obscure artists and sidemen you've never heard of has someone who knows something about them. Granted these threads are often the same three people discussing the same stuff over and over, but it's there. So yes. Their legacy will always live on. They were far too ubiquitous to be removed from the historical record or forgotten. Good music stands the test of time.

Will they be mentioned daily or often? Probably not.

[midnightman]

I think their legacy as barrier-breaking icons of black music would be a lasting thing for them.

Now musically? That's probably a different story, slightly. People definitely remember SOME of the Supremes' biggest hits, like Where Did Our Love Go [[the record that was eventually inducted into the Library of Congress' National Recording Registry), You Can't Hurry Love [[currently their most streamed song on Spotify at 439 million streams; by comparison, Baby Love has been streamed 200 million streams less and RECENTLY surpassed 200m streams, while Where Did Our Love Go and Stop! In the Name of Love are at around 118m streams each).

I think when one mentions the Supremes, the first thing that comes up after the "12 number ones" and being the most successful all-female vocal group in history, is the "drama" that occurred in the DMF years and Diana's ambition to be a star. Their music sadly seems to come last in memory.

BUT if WhoSampled is anything to go by, they're the most covered female vocal group with 476 covers of their hits.

You Keep Me Hangin' On seems to be their most covered at 77, followed by Stop! In the Name of Love with 45, Where Did Our Love Go with 43, You Can't Hurry Love at 41 covers, then followed by My World Is Empty Without You at 34 [[which is interesting cause that song barely got 15m streams on Spotify). Come See About Me follows with 30. Baby Love 26.

Afterwards, however, the number of covers for the hits afterwards are smaller and smaller.

Like if you were put all their top ten hits from 1964-70 together, which ones would stand out as their best remembered?

WHERE DID OUR LOVE GO [[classic)
BABY LOVE [[classic)
COME SEE ABOUT ME [[classic...but not as much as the first two)
STOP! IN THE NAME OF LOVE [[classic)
BACK IN MY ARMS AGAIN [[this song, from the "classic 5 that hit number one in a row", doesn't seem to be heavily recommended these days despite going straight to number one)
I HEAR A SYMPHONY [[classic...to some degree)
MY WORLD IS EMPTY WITHOUT YOU [[I don't know if it's that well remembered but it was heavily covered and some hip-hop songs, most notably MC Lyte's Poor Georgie sampled it)
LOVE IS LIKE AN ITCHING IN MY HEART [[only Supremes/Motown diehards would know this)
YOU CAN'T HURRY LOVE [[classic, likely now their most recognizable song...though this is debatable of course)
YOU KEEP ME HANGIN' ON [[classic, but not to the degree of YCHL, STINOL, BL and WDOLG)
LOVE IS HERE... [[shockingly not as remembered as I would think it'd be, it seems to be in the same boat as ITCHING and ARMS)
THE HAPPENING [[same as LIH)
REFLECTIONS [[a song you'd think the general public would recognize since it was the theme song of China Beach back in the 80s but alas it was one of those Vietnam War-era songs and that generation is dying)
IN AND OUT OF LOVE [[again, a song you'd have to either be a Supremes/Motown diehard or a serious 1960s affociando to know REAL WELL, like it's almost nonexistent unless you bought a completist anthology or box set)
I'M GONNA MAKE YOU LOVE ME [[was a huge hit during its time but one you barely hear on oldies radio anymore; has decent streams on Spotify though at 23m streams)
LOVE CHILD [[probably best remembered as the song Janet Jackson sampled the opening from in her song "You Want This"; that's actually how I came across it as a 10-year-old; shockingly it's only accumulated 19m streams on Spotify)
LIVIN' IN SHAME [[only diehards would remember it)
SOMEDAY WE'LL BE TOGETHER [[again, likely remembered from a Janet Jackson hit, the intro is sampled in her hit "If", from the same album that had "You Want This" on it)
UP THE LADDER TO THE ROOF [[best remembered as the song covered by Queen Latifah on an episode of "Living Single")
STONED LOVE [[sadly not as remembered as it should be. I mean when Motown's oldies entered its golden age stage, this song was NEVER PLAYED... I had to find out about the song around 2000!)

So out of these 20 top ten singles [[12 number ones), the ones that are either their signature tunes or classics would be:

WDOLG
BL
CSAM
SITNOL
IHAS
YCHL
YKMHO

Seven instantly recognizable songs.

But I can imagine most groups would KILL to have that many. The Ronettes by comparison only had Be My Baby. The Shangri-Las had Leader of the Pack. The Chantels had Maybe.

The Shirelles had slightly more than the other groups mentioned above [[Will You Love Me Tomorrow, Soldier Boy, Dedicated to the One I Love).

Then you compare them to their Motown girl group peers:

MARVELETTES:
Please Mr. Postman
Don't Mess with Bill

MARTHA [[REEVES) & THE VANDELLAS:
[[Love Is Like A) Heat Wave
Dancing in the Street
Nowhere to Run
Jimmy Mack

Then every girl group that came after them, you can sometimes count their recognizable/signature tunes with one hand, only one you can instantly recognize by more than a hand:

THREE DEGREES:
When Can I See You Again

LABELLE:
Lady Marmalade

POINTER SISTERS:
I'm So Excited
Jump [[For My Love)

MARY JANE GIRLS:
All Night Long
In My House

VANITY 6:
Nasty Girl

KLYMAXX:
Meeting in the Ladies Room
I Miss You

SALT-N-PEPA:
Push It
Let's Talk About Sex
Shoop
Whatta Man

EN VOGUE:
Hold On
My Lovin' [[You're Never Gonna Get It)
Whatta Man [[shared with SNP)
Don't Let Go [[Love)

TLC:
Creep
Waterfalls
No Scrubs
Unpretty

XSCAPE:
Who Can I Run To

SWV:
Weak

SPICE GIRLS:
Wannabe

DESTINY'S CHILD:
Say My Name
Survivor
Bootylicious

You get the picture. LOL

So when you compare the Supremes to the peers that came before them, during their rise and after they peaked, they still have the better legacy.

But if you compare them to, say Marvin Gaye, Stevie Wonder and the Temptations [[1964-72 era), however, they might fall short of being instantly recognizable as the symbol of Motown.

Marvin and Stevie, in particular, hold a bigger shadow over almost every other act signed to them in terms of their impact, if not sales.

Marvin had iconic hits in the '60s [[Grapevine, How Sweet It Is, It Takes Two, Ain't That Peculiar, Ain't No Mountain High Enough, You're All I Need to Get By), '70s [[What's Going On, Mercy Mercy Me, Inner City Blues, Let's Get It On, Got to Give It Up), '80s [[Sexual Healing - which was post-Motown) and then the What's Going On, Let's Get It On and Here, My Dear albums that are often ranked and awarded in best-of album lists. Marvin also stands out as the very first Motown inductee of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame [[the RRHOF used to induct artists by alphabetical order; meaning for the 1987 ceremony, Smokey was inducted later that night) and also arguably the label's most tragic figure by the way he died [[only Paul Williams and Michael Jackson rival his tragic end).

Then there's Stevie, whose '60s input had some iconic moments [[My Cherie Amour, I Was Made to Love Her, Uptight) followed by his magical '70s period of classic albums from Music of My Mind to Talking Book to Innervisions to Fulfillingness' First Finale to Songs in the Key of Life. There's still a debate on which of the five albums is his personal best, mostly split between TB, INNERVISIONS and SITKOL. His '80s era was mixed, but he still ended that decade with one of the most recognizable love anthems of the era [[I Just Called to Say I Love You).

For many in the general public, Marvin Gaye and Stevie Wonder ARE Motown. Some others add the Temptations there and there's definitely an argument for their placement thanks to:

The Way You Do the Things You Do
My Girl
Get Ready
Ain't Too Proud to Beg
Just My Imagination
Papa Was a Rollin' Stone

The Tempts and Sups seem to be almost equal as far as their most recognizable/signature tunes.

Their Motown buddies that came close to this were the Four Tops and the Miracles to an even lesser degree.

This is a long-winded post but I think the legacy of the group for what they stood for as pop culture icons during the turbulent 1960s would probably survive them even if people can't instantly recognize all of their hits.

[midnightman]

As for Diana in general, I think the same can be said for her. Diana doesn't have as many recognizable/signature hits as when she sang with the Supremes, but the ones that she would probably be forever remembered for are:

I'm Coming Out
Endless Love
Upside Down
Ain't No Mountain High Enough

Like if you were to ask what was Diana's most famous song, they'll probably pick one of these four, and I'm Coming Out likely being the first one mentioned since it's taken on cultural significance especially in the LGBTQ community.

Diana would also probably be remembered for being one of the first contemporary pop-rock singers to find some success in acting but I think her contributions in that department are overshadowed by Cher and Whitney Houston as far as modern pop-rock singers who became successful film stars go despite the fact she earned an Oscar nod for Lady Sings the Blues [[Diana was smarting over Halle Berry not mentioning her in a speech after she won her Oscar back in 2000-01, I forgot the actual year Halle won it for Monster's Ball, forgive me). [[Barbra Streisand and Liza Minnelli, I look at, as actors who became successful singers, not the other way around btw; plus they didn't fit the pop-rock field like Ross did).

I do feel when it comes to Diana, her place in history is strange.

She's remembered for the Central Park performance but her moment as the first pop-rock singer to sing the national anthem at a Super Bowl gets overlooked thanks to Whitney Houston's iconic/legendary performance of the anthem nine years later.

She was one of the few black entertainers [[and likely the first black female entertainer, period) to host their own variety specials [[1971's Diana! and 1977's An Evening with Diana Ross; not to mention the 1960s ones with the Sups/Tempts) and televised concerts [[she was the first R&B performer to have a HBO concert special going back to 1979) but it's rarely, if ever, brought up.

She also was one of the first black female artists to have their own production company [[Anaid). For a while, only her, Whitney Houston [[Nippy Inc and later BrownHouse Productions) and Phyllis Hyman were the first black female artists who had their own production companies, something that wouldn't be commonplace until much, much later.

Diana being one of the first black actresses to get an Oscar nomination and technically the second one doesn't get as much recognition as when Cicely Tyson is mentioned for the same thing. Also, some black female actors who received an Oscar nomination for Best Actress have gotten honorary lifetime Oscars, like Cicely and Angela Bassett, mainly because they had much longer film careers than Diana did [[hers stopped abruptly after The Wiz flopped and also due to the fact she rejected many films given to her for various reasons). By comparison, Whitney Houston, whose film career was only slightly longer, is often referred to as the singer who broke that barrier for pop singers to become film stars thanks to the blockbuster successes of The Bodyguard and Waiting to Exhale as well as being the first black actress to command $10 million a motion picture. All of Whitney's films, including Sparkle and Cinderella, which was on TV, still get regularly played and streamed. Of Diana's, only Lady Sings the Blues and The Wiz gets played but no idea about Mahogany [[despite its theme song), neither has Out of Darkness or Double Platinum.

Diana was one of the first black divas to get a doll back in the '80s but nowadays, you barely hear about that.

In other words, Diana as a soloist is not looked under the same way she's looked under as a Supreme. There's a sharp contrast.

But like the Supremes, I think her name will never really go away so that's probably enough for her.

[Ollie9]

As for Diana in general, I think the same can be said for her. Diana doesn't have as many recognizable/signature hits as when she sang with the Supremes, but the ones that she would probably be forever remembered for are:

I'm Coming Out
Endless Love
Upside Down
Ain't No Mountain High Enough

Like if you were to ask what was Diana's most famous song, they'll probably pick one of these four, and I'm Coming Out likely being the first one mentioned since it's taken on cultural significance especially in the LGBTQ community.

Diana would also probably be remembered for being one of the first contemporary pop-rock singers to find some success in acting but I think her contributions in that department are overshadowed by Cher and Whitney Houston as far as modern pop-rock singers who became successful film stars go despite the fact she earned an Oscar nod for Lady Sings the Blues [[Diana was smarting over Halle Berry not mentioning her in a speech after she won her Oscar back in 2000-01, I forgot the actual year Halle won it for Monster's Ball, forgive me). [[Barbra Streisand and Liza Minnelli, I look at, as actors who became successful singers, not the other way around btw; plus they didn't fit the pop-rock field like Ross did).

I do feel when it comes to Diana, her place in history is strange.

She's remembered for the Central Park performance but her moment as the first pop-rock singer to sing the national anthem at a Super Bowl gets overlooked thanks to Whitney Houston's iconic/legendary performance of the anthem nine years later.

She was one of the few black entertainers [[and likely the first black female entertainer, period) to host their own variety specials [[1971's Diana! and 1977's An Evening with Diana Ross; not to mention the 1960s ones with the Sups/Tempts) and televised concerts [[she was the first R&B performer to have a HBO concert special going back to 1979) but it's rarely, if ever, brought up.

She also was one of the first black female artists to have their own production company [[Anaid). For a while, only her, Whitney Houston [[Nippy Inc and later BrownHouse Productions) and Phyllis Hyman were the first black female artists who had their own production companies, something that wouldn't be commonplace until much, much later.

Diana being one of the first black actresses to get an Oscar nomination and technically the second one doesn't get as much recognition as when Cicely Tyson is mentioned for the same thing. Also, some black female actors who received an Oscar nomination for Best Actress have gotten honorary lifetime Oscars, like Cicely and Angela Bassett, mainly because they had much longer film careers than Diana did [[hers stopped abruptly after The Wiz flopped and also due to the fact she rejected many films given to her for various reasons). By comparison, Whitney Houston, whose film career was only slightly longer, is often referred to as the singer who broke that barrier for pop singers to become film stars thanks to the blockbuster successes of The Bodyguard and Waiting to Exhale as well as being the first black actress to command $10 million a motion picture. All of Whitney's films, including Sparkle and Cinderella, which was on TV, still get regularly played and streamed. Of Diana's, only Lady Sings the Blues and The Wiz gets played but no idea about Mahogany [[despite its theme song), neither has Out of Darkness or Double Platinum.

Diana was one of the first black divas to get a doll back in the '80s but nowadays, you barely hear about that.

In other words, Diana as a soloist is not looked under the same way she's looked under as a Supreme. There's a sharp contrast.

But like the Supremes, I think her name will never really go away so that's probably enough for her.

A realistic assessment midnight.

[midnightman]

^ Thanks Ollie. I wanted to be fair about it.