When David Ruffin Purposely Outperformed Diana Ross:

[Ollie9]

Look at other performances by David Ruffin ...He was the "IT" factor as well an always performed his butt off. To put it bluntly David didn't have a problem with Diana but had a problem with why he could not be given the same treatment. His recordings after the Temptations are awesome but David had his own demons.

I would pretty much agree with that.

[midnightman]

I would add that [imo] Diana's actions were not intended to undermine David's performance, just rather it was done to most benefit hers. What angered David is that all this was initiated by her and then carried out through Berry Gordy without any consultation with him. He had zero input and was not even a consideration.

Yeah that was the real issue. Some things were done behind folks' back to appease others. Communication was definitely needed in this scenario. By the way when you view the performance, it seemed like things went off without a hitch, as if there wasn't any issues since David sang it in stride cause he COULD sing that high so he stood up to the challenge. You have to understand they were all young and Diana and David were considered the STARS of their respective groups so of course their egos were probably large at this point but whatever happened BTS, they pulled it off even if Diana didn't necessarily like someone "upstaging" her.

[midnightman]

I'm just bringing forth my own observations and my conclusions based on those observations. If you don't see Diana Ross' looking over her shoulder as something out-of -place [unscripted] ....that's fine .

captainjames have you viewed the youtube post this thread is about?
It states that Berry was furious with David's performance and reamed him out afterwards backstage.

If everything was hunky dory and it was David being David and the show came out flawlessly ......
what then would you say Berry was pissed at him about??

Berry was a d*ck lol

I don't know why he didn't expect one of the greatest male vocalists of all time to do what he always did, and that was "sang"?!

Sometimes the boss is not always right.

[sup_fan]

Berry was a d*ck lol

I don't know why he didn't expect one of the greatest male vocalists of all time to do what he always did, and that was "sang"?!

Sometimes the boss is not always right.

one of the foundational stories of the rise of Motown is that Berry was looking for a FEMALE singer to be the figurehead. someone that would be the perfect crossover artist and make that jump to places like The Copa and Vegas and all. in searching for that singer, he was never really interested in considering a MALE singer as he felt white audiences would respond better to and be less threatened by a woman. so regardless of the talent of any of the men, they were never going to be his primary focus. end of discussion

it should also be noted that he was looking for 1 female, not multiple. i'm not referring to a solo singer versus a group but rather the idea of cultivating several female artists with different styles and sounds to appeal to more people. perhaps that was because he knew his operation would be homegrown and could probably only have the resources for 1. now Martha Reeves had a whole slew of issues of her own - her strong-headedness, drug issues, etc. she never had the single-mindedness that diana had for her career. Gladys Knight certainly was a potential to develop. all 3 of these women - Diana, martha and Gladys - were so different that, had there been the resources, each could have been molded and developed into mega stars. but alas, not to be. at least through motown. Gladys certainly was able to move on to higher stardom later

[sup_fan]

Diana and David shared having massive egos and massive talent. both had diva personalities and both used those personalities to create wonderfully exciting stage personas. once either of them hit the stage, they would turn on the star power and just naturally overshadow most others.

Diana had an almost rabid need to please her audience. remember the story of the first Sullivan? how she just beat herself but for thinking maybe she didn't perform strong enough, hence their 2nd tune being cut? there are also some stories of when the Velvettes and the Sups did a Battle of the Bands at the Greystone and the Vs won! lol Diana had a tantrum in the bathroom apparently.

diana's focus was she HAD to be perfect because when she was truly perfect, her performances were out of this world. when performances didn't go well, it was a hugely powerful, personal affront to herself. and if it was because of something SHE did, you can bet your bottom dollar that she would manically work on it until whatever it was, WAS perfect. and if the performance faltered because of what someone ELSE did, you better watch out! lol she would be in a true rage.

So here she is about to perform on Sullivan, the biggest tv show on the air. they'd already done a gig on the Mike Douglas show and this was about 8 months or so prior to taping TCB. Berry already had to have been in negotiations with NBC on the idea of the tv specials and probably Diana knew this. this Sullivan appearance was probably aimed as a test run for just how exciting the groups would be together. So there was pressure on her to be a magnetic and magical as possible. And if something as silly as the key the medley was arranged in wasn't right, hell - that's easy enough to change.

this wasn't about making David look bad. this was about Diana's desire for her part of the show to be, without question, perfect.

[reese]

I think it also bears mentioning that the only participant who actually wrote about this appearance is Otis Williams and even he didn't seem to have any malice. He just wrote the facts about the key change.

J. Randy wrote about it in his first book and of course, Tony Turner wrote about it in his book on the Tempts. He added supposed details about how pissed David was and how he was gonna show Diana up.

None of them wrote anything about Berry being pissed. That seemed to be added by the video producer.

[Ollie9]

this wasn't about making David look bad. this was about Diana's desire for her part of the show to be, without question, perfect.

As long as Diana was lefty happy i don’t see what the problem was.

[Boogiedown]

I think it also bears mentioning that the only participant who actually wrote about this appearance is Otis Williams and even he didn't seem to have any malice. He just wrote the facts about the key change.

J. Randy wrote about it in his first book and of course, Tony Turner wrote about it in his book on the Tempts. He added supposed details about how pissed David was and how he was gonna show Diana up.

None of them wrote anything about Berry being pissed. That seemed to be added by the video producer.

excellent reese. your skill at reciting actual references is so appreciated. And even at that, those references can always be sketchy as anyone can say anything .....doesn't make it true. But at least we can decide for ourselves based on "reliable" sources especially the stories told from people who were there.

I said from the get-go when posting this that this youtube feature cites no sources for their claims.
So yes your point is exactly right:
WHO has gone on record saying Berry Gordy was angry backstage???

If no one ....that's a huge hole in this story. Good job pointing that out. Maybe there is a source that even you aren't aware of [I doubt it ] but maybe someone else here will produce a reference.

Until then ....I'd call it storytelling out of thin air ....

[reese]

excellent reese. your skill at reciting actual references is so appreciated. And even at that, those references can always be sketchy as anyone can say anything .....doesn't make it true. But at least we can decide for ourselves based on "reliable" sources especially the stories told from people who were there.

I said from the get-go when posting this that this youtube feature cites no sources for their claims.
So yes your point is exactly right:
WHO has gone on record saying Berry Gordy was angry backstage???

If no one ....that's a huge hole in this story. Good job pointing that out. Maybe there is a source that even you aren't aware of [I doubt it ] but maybe someone else here will produce a reference.

Until then ....I'd call it storytelling out of thin air ....

There are tons of these videos on YouTube. This one couldn't even get the screenshots right, putting the heads of Tammi and David on other folks' bodies. Not to mention that the photo of David used was taken years after Tammi's death.

[Boogiedown]

There are tons of these videos on YouTube. This one couldn't even get the screenshots right, putting the heads of Tammi and David on other folks' bodies. Not to mention that the photo of David used was taken years after Tammi's death.

exactly. that's why we should only use them as a launching pad for discussion and not as anything factually concrete. I take it at face value [50 cents] and then go from there.

In this case, we have the actual footage of the appearance that's being discussed.... that's why I included it , and my comments have been centered on my impressions from viewing that.

So yes this "source" with the AI voice is flimsy at best. AND it gets even worse !!!:



shall we discuss this one next ??? hee haw !!!

[sup_fan]

As long as Diana was lefty happy i don’t see what the problem was.

my guess is that Diana's thought would be "hey - i'm doing whatever i can to make my part of the show perfect. I would suggest everyone else work as hard to make their parts perfect and then we'll all be perfect."

[midnightman]

Diana WAS a perfectionist. This is why she should've released her book so at least we could see her side of things especially about how to perfect her stage performance and how she tried to land a vocal when she felt she would struggle. Without her speaking out about things that made her seem like the Wicked Witch of Hitsville, the narrative just makes her look very ridiculous.

[midnightman]

one of the foundational stories of the rise of Motown is that Berry was looking for a FEMALE singer to be the figurehead. someone that would be the perfect crossover artist and make that jump to places like The Copa and Vegas and all. in searching for that singer, he was never really interested in considering a MALE singer as he felt white audiences would respond better to and be less threatened by a woman. so regardless of the talent of any of the men, they were never going to be his primary focus. end of discussion

it should also be noted that he was looking for 1 female, not multiple. i'm not referring to a solo singer versus a group but rather the idea of cultivating several female artists with different styles and sounds to appeal to more people. perhaps that was because he knew his operation would be homegrown and could probably only have the resources for 1. now Martha Reeves had a whole slew of issues of her own - her strong-headedness, drug issues, etc. she never had the single-mindedness that diana had for her career. Gladys Knight certainly was a potential to develop. all 3 of these women - Diana, martha and Gladys - were so different that, had there been the resources, each could have been molded and developed into mega stars. but alas, not to be. at least through motown. Gladys certainly was able to move on to higher stardom later

Motown was a small company to begin with. Even when it started to make millions [[which is when Gladys joined), the label only had one room for one woman in there and that wasn't Gladys or Martha. And yes I do know he set his sights on one female star, which is why he put all his resources on Diana because to him, she WAS the one. In many respects, he was right but the way in which he did it was very cruel when it came to the other acts he signed. And this is why Diana stays mostly away from Motown-related events unless it's with people she grew close to [[i.e., Smokey at times, Stevie).

[Ollie9]

my guess is that Diana's thought would be "hey - i'm doing whatever i can to make my part of the show perfect. I would suggest everyone else work as hard to make their parts perfect and then we'll all be perfect."

Even if made to sing in a key you would normally prefer not to.
It’s easier being that little bit more perfect when everything possible is being done to help you achieve just that.

[lucky2012]

I think it also bears mentioning that the only participant who actually wrote about this appearance is Otis Williams and even he didn't seem to have any malice. He just wrote the facts about the key change.
J. Randy wrote about it in his first book and of course, Tony Turner wrote about it in his book on the Tempts. He added supposed details about how pissed David was and how he was gonna show Diana up.

None of them wrote anything about Berry being pissed. That seemed to be added by the video producer.

There are tons of these videos on YouTube.

Thank you, reese. It bears mentioning and kept in mind.

[Boogiedown]

OK all you imagineers:

Here are the two together talking before airtime. Had the key change already been made ?
Was Diana confessing her selfish little sin concerning David's song as this picture was taken??
Was the next photo then of Diana on the floor with David strangling her??

[Ollie9]

Perhaps Otis just made the whole thing up after all.

[RanRan79]

Another important point about the Diana/David part is that this was David's song. Sure, I could see a scenario where it might have made sense to have David begin the song, since it was his lead voice on the hit record, and then have Diana come in second, since it wasn't her song and she would basically be a guest on it. But it made more sense for Diana to start it and then let David come in and do what David does. I believe everything we're seeing in this performance is exactly what Gordy intended, including David tearing it up.

I love Eddie and Paul's voices as much as I love David's, just like I love Flo's voice as much as I love Diana's. While David and Diana have two very different voices, the one thing they had in common was that they were the electrifying elements in their respective groups. It really is a pity that David's potential as a solo star was never realized beyond his two big hits. He should have had a career where he could sell out an arena. He was just that good, IMO.

[mindful1]

Another important point about the Diana/David part is that this was David's song. Sure, I could see a scenario where it might have made sense to have David begin the song, since it was his lead voice on the hit record, and then have Diana come in second, since it wasn't her song and she would basically be a guest on it. But it made more sense for Diana to start it and then let David come in and do what David does. I believe everything we're seeing in this performance is exactly what Gordy intended, including David tearing it up.

I love Eddie and Paul's voices as much as I love David's, just like I love Flo's voice as much as I love Diana's. While David and Diana have two very different voices, the one thing they had in common was that they were the electrifying elements in their respective groups. It really is a pity that David's potential as a solo star was never realized beyond his two big hits. He should have had a career where he could sell out an arena. He was just that good, IMO.

. Great insights! I appreciate your take on this segment and never really thought too much of the potential for David to shine more as a solo star til you mentioned it here. Yes, he was great. I think they should have recorded something together. Or at least have him as a guest to perform together on her TV special as a solo artist.

[reese]

OK all you imagineers:

Here are the two together talking before airtime. Had the key change already been made ?
Was Diana confessing her selfish little sin concerning David's song as this picture was taken??
Was the next photo then of Diana on the floor with David strangling her??

I think this photo was taken at the second dress rehearsal after the backing track was redone with the key change. There is at least one photo that shows Mary, Cindy, and the guys at a mike just to the left of the stage, re-recording their backup vocals, I believe.

Note: During the original dress rehearsal, Diana and Mary wore different wigs. See below.

[daviddh]

Thought Sullivan shows were live??
Personally, great performance. But obviously the queen got her way

[Ollie9]

Thought Sullivan shows were live??
Personally, great performance. But obviously the queen got her way

Bottom line. I’m always amazed how very different Diana looks without makeup. It really does totally transform her.

[blackguy69]

I think you mean Cindy.

I think this photo was taken at the second dress rehearsal after the backing track was redone with the key change. There is at least one photo that shows Mary, Cindy, and the guys at a mike just to the left of the stage, re-recording their backup vocals, I believe.

Note: During the original dress rehearsal, Diana and Mary wore different wigs. See below.

[reese]

I think you mean Cindy.

Indeed, I meant Diana and Cindy wore different wigs during the first dress rehearsal.

[hobocamp]

Bottom line. I’m always amazed how very different Diana looks without makeup. It really does totally transform her.

Same for me Ollie9. I love that transformation that occurs.

[reese]

Thought Sullivan shows were live??

For the most part, I believe they were. Although I think there were also some instances where segments were pre-taped, like Diana's last appearance with the Supremes.

[Ollie9]

Same for me Ollie9. I love that transformation that occurs.

It really is quite remarkable.

[Boogiedown]

Watching this stuff about David Ruffin and found what is said @ 9:20 interesting:



here's the performance:

still watching this performance. I'm not perceiving David doing anything egregious for Berry to be perturbed about.

IF Berry were even the least bit upset with anybody, it might've been at Diana....but not by much because she carried this weight of this show and did so really well ....until the very end. Then she clearly drops out of the finale too early, dropping her mic before the others have finished. Yet Diana can still be heard hitting her high note after she's stopped singing.

Question still on the table :

Was that fake high voice already on the track they are singing to...or did they have to add it later to make it sound like Diana continued to sing until the appropriate end?**

added:

**on further review: I now propose that the last high note heard is that of Eddie Kendricks
I believe Supfan suggested that possibility earlier, but I failed to grasp it.

[daviddh]

Remember the stress Ross was under.
At some point Diana collapsed during a live show and was hospitalized.
I remember reading BG came to see her n see if she was faking it ...
Later at Motown musical Ross stated ,I left because he wasn't nice.

[Ollie9]

Diana looks to be in her own little world a the end, standing out front accepting the applause as if for her alone. It’s actually quite amusing bless her.

[floyjoy678]

Wasn't this when the Temptations slipped Mary a note saying to "stick by Florence"?

[sup_fan]

Wasn't this when the Temptations slipped Mary a note saying to "stick by Florence"?

i believe that was earlier. most close to when Flo was terminated in July of 67

[reese]

Wasn't this when the Temptations slipped Mary a note saying to "stick by Florence"?

According to Mary in DREAMGIRL, after the girls' Forest Hills date, she hung around NY for a few days. At her hotel, she received a telegram from the Tempts urging her to stick by Flo, as she could be next. She places this as early August of '67. [I think the Forest Hills date was July 29.]

In his book, Otis confirmed that Melvin sent Mary such a telegram.

[lucky2012]

OK all you imagineers:

Here are the two together talking before airtime. Had the key change already been made ?
Was Diana confessing her selfish little sin concerning David's song as this picture was taken??
Was the next photo then of Diana on the floor with David strangling her??

Imagineers! That is what we do here.

[Ollie9]

Imagineers! That is what we do here.

Isn’t it wonderful that you know so much better then peeps who were there.
I love those who would rewrite history to suit what they want to hear.

[RanRan79]

. Great insights! I appreciate your take on this segment and never really thought too much of the potential for David to shine more as a solo star til you mentioned it here. Yes, he was great. I think they should have recorded something together. Or at least have him as a guest to perform together on her TV special as a solo artist.

I would have really loved to hear the two of them on a slow love song. I love the Supremes and Tempts version of "Aint Nothing Like the Real Thing" [[little known personal trivia fact: I actually prefer this version to Marvin and Tammi's). I think for Dennis- and Paul too, on the songs he sang with Diana- to have had such rough voices, they actually complimented Diana's sweet tone very well. While I believe Dennis was the perfect replacement for David, one difference in their style was that David had a soft, tender, sensual side to his voice that I think Dennis lacked. Pairing that side of David with Diana, I believe, would have resulted in something fantastic.

Because both Diana [[tied with Aretha) and Marvin Gaye sit atop my favorite solo singer lists, their duet album holds a special place in my heart. I love it and I'm so thankful that it exists. But in an alternate reality, it might have been just as nice if maybe Gordy had thought David's career needed a jolt so why not pair him with the queen of the label, and had them do the duet album. But like I said, that would be an alternate reality. In the real world we know there at least a couple reasons why this wouldn't have been on the to-do list.

[RanRan79]

Diana looks to be in her own little world a the end, standing out front accepting the applause as if for her alone. It’s actually quite amusing bless her.

If you pay close attention, she and David are really standing next to one another. He ends up moving back slightly to take his bow. She does not. Now the question is was this the way it was rehearsed? Or were they simply told to take their bows and left to use their own judgement on how that should look? I think she and David should have either held hands and bowed or put an arm around the other and bowed. I also think it's quite possible David was instructed to take that step back, leaving Diana in front. After all, it's three acts up there: the Tempts, the Supremes, and Diana Ross. The name was changed in order to command more money...or so we've been told. Gotta make it look like CBS is getting their money's worth.

Or could be Diana just took her bow where she was, not thinking Ollie would come around 100 years later to analyze it. Had she known, she might have run and hid behind everyone else to show her humbleness.

[Ollie9]

If you pay close attention, she and David are really standing next to one another. He ends up moving back slightly to take his bow. She does not. Now the question is was this the way it was rehearsed? Or were they simply told to take their bows and left to use their own judgement on how that should look? I think she and David should have either held hands and bowed or put an arm around the other and bowed. I also think it's quite possible David was instructed to take that step back, leaving Diana in front. After all, it's three acts up there: the Tempts, the Supremes, and Diana Ross. The name was changed in order to command more money...or so we've been told. Gotta make it look like CBS is getting their money's worth.

Or could be Diana just took her bow where she was, not thinking Ollie would come around 100 years later to analyze it. Had she known, she might have run and hid behind everyone else to show her humbleness.

They are definitely not standing next to one another when David steps slightly back to take his bow. Diana moves a smidge further forward when she stretches her arms out.
To be honest, i really can’t imagine David complying if instructed to step back.
I agree it would have been nice for David & Di to at least acknowledge each other at the end of the song, being why i posted about Diana being in her own little bubble
Not the most important thing in the scheme of things, but no less so then missing beads on frocks or if Marlene sang the second oooh on “Can’t Hurry Love”.

[Boogiedown]

If you pay close attention, she and David are really standing next to one another. He ends up moving back slightly to take his bow. She does not. Now the question is was this the way it was rehearsed? Or were they simply told to take their bows and left to use their own judgement on how that should look? I think she and David should have either held hands and bowed or put an arm around the other and bowed. I also think it's quite possible David was instructed to take that step back, leaving Diana in front. After all, it's three acts up there: the Tempts, the Supremes, and Diana Ross. The name was changed in order to command more money...or so we've been told. Gotta make it look like CBS is getting their money's worth.

Or could be Diana just took her bow where she was, not thinking Ollie would come around 100 years later to analyze it. Had she known, she might have run and hid behind everyone else to show her humbleness.

Good stuff. I've been meaning to get around to this. I think Melvin joining The Supremes is one of the best moments here. It brings the two groups together. It seems spontaneous, like he just can't help himself ....but obviously every step is choreographed as is every camera shot [which also hasn't been discussed yet].

What I love is the way Melvin grips the two girls for the finale, it just feels right.... although I'm sure some corners would find it sexist.
However
it also underlines the way David and Diana DON'T come together at the end. They don't likewise in any way embrace each other or hold hands or even acknowledge one another. It makes Diana very much seem self absorbed. It could very well be that David was told to back off so that the closing was all eyes on Diana.
The camera shots favor David when they are together and they cut away when Diana is singing her parts making it hard to know how those two were interacting throughout ...their eye contact , smiles...or lack of ...

Diana's left arms does go in front of David's body so she is not side by side.

But now studying all this further, I see Eddie Kendricks is purposely close behind them at the end, to get him into the shot ....and now I think it is his voice that is held here the longest. I think his placement was planned and then all The Temptations step back including Eddie.

[TheMotownManiac]

Watching this stuff about David Ruffin and found what is said @ 9:20 interesting:



here's the performance:



Hee Haw! At the end Diana has given up and is taking her bows and David is still singing!

I don’t see what you’re seeing. David has stopped singing and moved his microphone away from his mouth when she starts to bow. Have I totally lost it? Please show me the timestamp, and when she is bowing while he is still singing.

[TheMotownManiac]

I don’t see things being done behind anybody’s back, I don’t see any reason to assume anything was done behind anyone’s back. I do see a photograph where David Ruffin, and diana ross are clearly having a conversation, it doesn’t appear unpleasant to me, maybe they are discussing the weather, or mink, lined, limousines, or, perhaps they are discussing, in fact, this medley.

[Boogiedown]

I don’t see what you’re seeing. David has stopped singing and moved his microphone away from his mouth when she starts to bow. Have I totally lost it? Please show me the timestamp, and when she is bowing while he is still singing.

at 4:30 for whatever reason Diana has truncated her final note, and throws up her arms to invite applause while David can still be seen singing into his microphone and Eddie's voice especially is heard long after. She takes the lead bowing and David is just a bit behind her lead with his bow which is much more modest.

I don’t see things being done behind anybody’s back, I don’t see any reason to assume anything was done behind anyone’s back. I do see a photograph where David Ruffin, and diana ross are clearly having a conversation, it doesn’t appear unpleasant to me, maybe they are discussing the weather, or mink, lined, limousines, or, perhaps they are discussing, in fact, this medley.

They might be discussing the nerve of Eddie insisting on a singing part and Diana's saying, "Mary better not try that."
I give this performance by all of them a solid "A". If anything is going awry, I'm not perceiving it. I do think David outsings her [and it could be argued Diana surrenders at the end] and their dueting is not warm and fuzzy, but David has no experience sharing the stage with a female. His stage styling comes from duking it out with a bunch of guys.

[Ollie9]

Having watched it again, i finally realise just how far forward Diana actually ends up.
The fact she and David offer no acknowledgement of each other, coupled with Diana’s exaggerated swooping bows makes her appear leading lady with a supporting cast lol.

[Boogiedown]

Having watched it again, i finally realise just how far forward Diana actually ends up.
The fact she and David offer no acknowledgement of each other, coupled with Diana’s exaggerated swooping bows makes her appear leading lady with a supporting cast lol.

lol
It does appear that that is the plan here. Diana is the driving force throughout. Perhaps she really is gloriously celebrating at the end how well they [she] pulled off this rather complex staging. And this is the new DIANA ROSS and the Supremes [with the Temptations] that is being projected here. All The Temptations step back together at the end , which tells me that Diana is to be out front in the end....with or without David, but I think it was meant to be without [which would add fuel to any claim that David was a bit disgruntled with this whole affair....if he was ]

New question: [reese?]
Ed Sullivan's show originally aired live. I believe by this time , the late sixties, it was recorded live, taped, then aired later ....anyone know how that worked? The timeline??

[lucky2012]

If you pay close attention, she and David are really standing next to one another. He ends up moving back slightly to take his bow. She does not. Now the question is was this the way it was rehearsed? Or were they simply told to take their bows and left to use their own judgement on how that should look? I think she and David should have either held hands and bowed or put an arm around the other and bowed. I also think it's quite possible David was instructed to take that step back, leaving Diana in front. After all, it's three acts up there: the Tempts, the Supremes, and Diana Ross. The name was changed in order to command more money...or so we've been told. Gotta make it look like CBS is getting their money's worth.

Or could be Diana just took her bow where she was, not thinking Ollie would come around 100 years later to analyze it. Had she known, she might have run and hid behind everyone else to show her humbleness.

Lol, RanRan. I doubt we'll be analyzing this 100 years from November 1967 [and definitely not 100 years from now]!

Interesting questions, opining and imagineering here, though. I agree with you and others that Diana & David are really basically next to each other. But by November 1967, just after the group name change, I think Motown's plans were becoming clearer.

[sup_fan]

Lol, RanRan. I doubt we'll be analyzing this 100 years from November 1967 [and definitely not 100 years from now]!

Interesting questions, opining and imagineering here, though. I agree with you and others that Diana & David are really basically next to each other. But by November 1967, just after the group name change, I think Motown's plans were becoming clearer.

this tv appearance had to have hugely influential in the Motown negotiations with NBC regarding the tv specials. the Supremes were already a staple of tv programming and even during the end of the Flo years, their material was getting much more sophisticated and challenging - like Millie/Rose/Mame on Sullivan and the new Lady Is A Tramp/Let's Get Away medley on Tonight Show. so i imagine it a rather easy sell but the excitement and buzz after this Sullivan duets segment probably was icing on the cake.

and TCB and GIT were really all about presenting Diana Ross as a versatile entertainer. she was the hostess, the mistress of ceremonies. she lead the overall show, sang lead, performed a variety of material beyond her own hits.

and that also lead to them hosting the Hollywood Palace twice. the first was in March 69 and then again in October. Now diana was interacting with a variety of guests and stars too.

so absolutely this was a plan. Some of the motown people have described getting the Supremes ready for the copa as planning a military invasion. every detail and every situation was reviewed and prepared for. same with Diana's solo launch. the only thing not perfectly complying with the plan was the lack of a hit single - that is until Someday finally came about.

[Boogiedown]

Lol, RanRan. I doubt we'll be analyzing this 100 years from November 1967 .

Oh yes I will be!!!

[lucky2012]

Oh yes I will be!!!

Lol. Then maybe I will, too!

[RanRan79]

Lol, RanRan. I doubt we'll be analyzing this 100 years from November 1967 [and definitely not 100 years from now]!

Are you kidding? This is exactly the kind of thing I'll be doing in 2067. And God willing, I'll be doing the same in 2124.

[midnightman]

I forgot that Tony Turner was the only one who added that part of David acting a fool over the key change. Otis' recollection might've been a lot different that David and the other Tempts WERE probably upset but being professionals, they worked their way around it. Which is why it seemed so easy for them to transition when Diana began singing their song.