Tommy Neal

[jsmith]

The 1967 single released on Tommy Neal has endured well down the years. It enjoyed 3 different US releases at the time and sold quite well if all three are grouped together. It didn't escape in the UK until 1968 but became an instant Brit soul club dance floor anthem. Very few soul 45's put out in the UK at that time received any promotion here at all and had to fend for themselves, sales wise. Because of this, many went completely 'under the radar' and [[at the time) sold very few copies.
This fate did not befall Tommy's 45. It was on a lesser UK label as far as soul releases were concerned [[again in sales terms) & it was by a completely unknown artist, yet it sold well. It received little or no UK radio airplay but was massive in the clubs. So much so, that just about every UK soul fan who bought 45's at the time soon had a copy of this 45. It sold so well, that when the first UK soul bootleg label was created [[SOUL SOUNDS) and 30 x 45's were made available [[29 of them having enjoyed official UK 45 release already), Tommy's effort wasn't included as there little or no 'pent-up' demand for it.
Down the years, new fans of his vinyl efforts came on board, making reissues necessary. All in all, counting US issues & radio stn copies, UK issues, demos, re-releases & bootlegs, the 45 now exists in 10 different incarnations.
So, it's popularity has endured and it sold in decent numbers in both the US & UK, yet Tommy never got to make a follow up release. He'd started out in a group [[the Majestics), so already had studio experience ... so why was he never taken back into the studio ?
NUDA QUESTION -- I've seen it written that he was well known as a night club singer around Detroit back in the mid to late 60's ... is that so & if yes, which venues did he get to play [[20 Grand, Chit Chat, Phelps ?).

[jsmith]

I believe it's common knowledge that Vault failed to meet the terms of their licensing agreement for the track & probably didn't even bother to tell Tommy or his producers / Detroit record company that they'd licensed the 45 for overseas release.
I also recall the Chambers Brothers [[around the same time) being very unhappy about their treatment by Vault. In fact, after signing with Vault in 65, they soon jumped ship & were with Columbia by 1966. That fact didn't however stop Vault from continuing to release Chambers Bros records for a further 3 years.
Did the guys who ran Vault [[Jack Lewerke and Ralph Kaffel) have a track record of ripping acts off ?

[Graham Jarvis]

Always loved this record, I was amazed back in the 7T's how many different labels, if no one heard it before enjoy!

[robb_k]

I believe it's common knowledge that Vault failed to meet the terms of their licensing agreement for the track & probably didn't even bother to tell Tommy or his producers / Detroit record company that they'd licensed the 45 for overseas release.
I also recall the Chambers Brothers [[around the same time) being very unhappy about their treatment by Vault. In fact, after signing with Vault in 65, they soon jumped ship & were with Columbia by 1966. That fact didn't however stop Vault from continuing to release Chambers Bros records for a further 3 years.
Did the guys who ran Vault [[Jack Lewerke and Ralph Kaffel) have a track record of ripping acts off ?

Vault was mainly a record distributor for small and tiny labels, and didn't have any recording of their own projects, as far as I remember. They acted similarly to how Bell Records operated during their early history. I don't remember seeing any pressing on their own "Vault Records" label that wasn't leased from another label or music production company, or independent producer. I DO faintly remember one or two disputes regarding the distribution and lease agreements they had going during the 1960s, but, unfortunately, I can't remember which records and productions were involved. Such occurrences are fairly common when there are different rights for competing companies either assigned to different geographic territories, or differing time periods. As far as I remember, Vault didn't have a "good reputation" for writing "clean and crystal clear contracts". There were some misunderstandings that led to legal actions. But, I can't remember which deals were involved. But, I'm sure that Bell, with so many more lease deals, had some of those situations, as well.

[jsmith]

Thanks for the input Robb.
With you being around at the time & buying records of that type, were you aware of the Tommy Neal 45 in it's different forms [[on different labels). Did you buy a copy & if so, which version of the 45 ?

[robb_k]

Thanks for the input Robb.
With you being around at the time & buying records of that type, were you aware of the Tommy Neal 45 in it's different forms [[on different labels). Did you buy a copy & if so, which version of the 45 ?

I saw the yellow-orange Pamline, The Palmer, and the Vault issues. The Vault issue was the most common, and was nationally distributed. I saw it all over USA. The Pamline was only distributed in southeastern Michigan and Akron-Toledo areas of northwestern Ohio. It should be the rarest. I never saw the pink Pamline. It has a label font used during the mid '60s through early '70s in an L.A. pressing plant, but not in any of Detroit's plants. So, I doubt that it was Popcorn Wylie's original Detroit issue. I wonder if that was a re-issue [[maybe a bootleg?) [[between '69 and '71) for the NS market? But Soussan's L.A. pressings were made at Monarch, and on styrene, and had a much different label design and font. I saw the green Pamline much later. So, I think that was a later '70s re-issue [['74-'77 or so?)[[probably also for The NS market). I saw the Palmer also in Chicago as well as Michigan, so I think that may have been regionally distributed [[Upper Midwest), after the original, local yellow issue. And I saw more of those. So, it must have issued more copies than the Pamline. I bought The Palmer and the Vault issues. I remember seeing hundreds of the gray-green store-stocker, but very few WDJ copies of it.

I think I remember seeing only one Detroit venue show poster for Tommy Neal, - I think it was "The Twenty Grand". I've seen many, many posters for different gigs for most of the more popular artists. So, I wouldn't guess that he was very popular. And even if he was a regular attraction at a club for a long time, he still would have shown up on a lot of different posters for that venue. I don't know if Neal had an ongoing solo act for more than a few years. Didn't he join another group after his short solo run with Popcorn Wylie? Maybe it was one of Wylie's groups related to Soulhawk? He had met Popcorn when The Majestics were recording for Tony [[Willie) Ewing's Chex/Volume Records, where Popcorn was a producer/songwriter. The Majestics moved on to Thelma Records, before Wiley signed him as a solo act. I think he joined another Detroit group in the late '60s [[but can't remember which one). We need some help from someone who lived in Detroit from 1965-72. I stopped visiting Detroit in 1966 as I was attending university in Los Angeles. So, I only visited Detroit a couple times a year when visiting my family in Chicago during quarter breaks [[holiday time). I would guess that our Forum Moderator and Manager, Ralph Terrana [[who ran Terra-Firma sound Studio back then) would remember if Neal sang in several of the clubs back then. There are several othe Detroiters on this forum that were around during the '60s who should be able to answer that question.

[jsmith]

Thanx again, Robb.
I'm no expert on Detroit indie soul labels or on Popcorn's activities in the mid 60's, but he didn't seem to place much product with PALMER, so I guess it was a bit of a bid to get an agreeable 2nd [[3rd ?) bite at selling copies of Tommy's tracks. Palmer seemed to be running out of steam [[release wise) after summer 67 though, so perhaps it wasn't Popcorn's greatest decision [[even though the outfit also acted as his distributor).
But Popcorn's first attempt to have success with "Going To A Happening" was on his own label, so why he didn't give Tommy a 2nd chance with a release on Soulhawk is a bit difficult to understand.

[robb_k]

Thanx again, Robb.
I'm no expert on Detroit indie soul labels or on Popcorn's activities in the mid 60's, but he didn't seem to place much product with PALMER, so I guess it was a bit of a bid to get an agreeable 2nd [[3rd ?) bite at selling copies of Tommy's tracks. Palmer seemed to be running out of steam [[release wise) after summer 67 though, so perhaps it wasn't Popcorn's greatest decision [[even though the outfit also acted as his distributor).
But Popcorn's first attempt to have success with "Going To A Happening" was on his own label, so why he didn't give Tommy a 2nd chance with a release on Soulhawk is a bit difficult to understand.

Good point, ESPECIALLY because Soulhawk was distributed nationally by industry giant, Atlantic, and so, had a much, much stronger distribution reach than Palmer. It makes little sense. The front money he got from Palmer could potentially be swamped over by Soulhawk national sales, at several times the sales he'd get from Palmer. The only reason I can think of is that Tommy Neal was much, much more known and popular in the Detroit Metro/ southeastern Michigan/northwest Ohio areas, which Palmer could cover well enough, while concentrating a lot more of their marketing on, than Atlantic could give to an individual record of Wiley's on the national level, when they were already distributing 5 or 6 of Wiley's other productions at the same time. Wiley must have figured Neal was still popular from his gigs sub-regionally, but, by the time of the re-issue, was probably almost unknown on the national level. So, he figured Palmer marketing heavily locally and sub-regionally could likely generate more sales than Atlantic spreading their marketing of his current releases thinner, to put in effort on a re-release of a former regional hit that didn't sell much nationally, in its first go-round.